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Author Topic: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated  (Read 149680 times)

Offline Dog-One

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Or "is possible" ???

It most certainly is if you are using analog sine waves as your driving source, regardless of the number of poles.

Recall what Eric Dollard said about 3-phase, it acts just like a mechanical drive shaft.

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Offline pmgr

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"Not possible 1 or 2 degrees" ??
Or "is possible" ???
Mistake or typo?
Not possible. A 36 slot stator has 10deg accuracy. A 2deg accuracy would require 180slots!
PmgR

Offline memoryman

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"A 36 slot stator has 10deg accuracy. A 2deg accuracy would require 180slots!" Surely you mean RESOLUTION; accuracy is not the same as resolution.

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Offline FixedSys

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"A 36 slot stator has 10deg accuracy. A 2deg accuracy would require 180slots!" Surely you mean RESOLUTION; accuracy is not the same as resolution.

True, but Pierre C was referring to "distance" which equates to resolution in that context.

Offline iflewmyown

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PmgR,
In the early days of home built wind generators one technique was to epoxy coils on the outside of a motor lamination stack. This was held stationary inside of a truck brake drum filled with magnets which the blades spun. The point being that any number of coils could be placed on the laminations giving any degree of accuracy. A wound steel toroid  could be made the same way with the coils on the inside for this project.
Garry

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Offline gotoluc

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To everyone

First, I would like to wish a Happy Fathers day to all.

Next, the free lab space I have access to had a deadline of this July 1st.  I was hopping to have something interesting to demonstrate before then which would of changed this limit but it looks like it would easily take another month or more to explore, experiment other wiring and switching options and time is running out since I'm faced to deal with so many things to leave for that date.  So I have to use the next two weeks to work only on getting myself ready to leave.

I will continue moderate and translate for Pierre but that's all I can do for the next 2 to 3 weeks.

Don't know where I'll be going from here but I have had a few invitations which I will explore while living out of my van.

As for the prototype I built, I don't think I'll be bringing it with me since the owner of the lab has invested around $400. in it to buy the 40 Amp H-Bridges and 600v 50A Diodes.
All I can bring with me is the first  30 switches and Arduino that was donated by Partzman.

It's unfortunate the timing is as such since I have many more ideas that need to be experimented with.

I'll resume the research once I find a free place to work on what interests me.
However, the problem with free spaces is the owners expect a certain amount of your time to work on their interests, so it's difficult to keep all this in balanced.

We'll see what the future brings.

Regards
Luc

Offline pedro1

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Le mieux serait de 1 à 2 degrés  mais je sait que ce n'est pas possible c'est juste pour vous dire que plus est petit votre déplacement meilleur sera la résolution  a coup de 50 degrés a la fois vous  n'aurez pas un bon rendement si vous simuler un déplacement il  faut que entre chaque bobine avoir le plus petit degrés que possible   alors si vous prenez un moteur déjà bobiner  vous deplacerez votre champ de beaucoup trop de degrés a la fois vous aurez du mal a obtenir quelque chose de fonctionnelles

En. The best would be 1 to 2 degrees but I know that's not possible. I wrote it to inform you that the smaller your displacement the better the resolution will be 50 degrees at a time you will not give a good performance.  If you simulate a magnet movement, ideally  you would want the smallest degree change between each coil. So if you take an already wound motor you move the fields too many degrees at a time. So you will have difficulty obtain something functional
« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 09:51:43 PM by gotoluc »

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Offline r2fpl

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Pierre,

Can you tell if there is a permanent magnet in the device? The amplifier in this way the magnetic field?

Offline pedro1

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Non il n'y a aucune aimant permanent le but étant de déplacer un champ magnétique cela aurait été impossible avec des aimant permanente sans avoir un mouvement mecanic le but est justement d'enlever le mouvement mecanic.                              Pierre c.

En.  No, there's no permanent magnet.  The goal is to move a magnetic field.  It would be impossible with permanent magnet without having a mechanical movement. The goal is to remove the mechanical movement.                             
Pierre C.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 09:56:39 PM by gotoluc »

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Offline r2fpl

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Non il n'y a aucune aimant permanent le but étant de déplacer un champ magnétique cela aurait été impossible avec des aimant permanente sans avoir un mouvement mecanic le but est justement d'enlever le mouvement mecanic.                              Pierre c.

En.  No, there's no permanent magnet.  The goal is to move a magnetic field.  It would be impossible with permanent magnet without having a mechanical movement. The goal is to remove the mechanical movement.                             
Pierre C.

Thank you for your answer.

Is this similar to this ?
« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 09:57:50 PM by gotoluc »

Offline pedro1

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Je ne comprend pas votre le principe de votre animation on dirait un transformateur qui flip d'un côté a l'autre cela n'a rien à voir avec le dz générateur  qui est de répliquer le déplacement d'un champ magnétique votre animation ne fait que un flip de gauche a droite?

En.  I don't understand the principle of your animation. It looks like a transformer that flip from side to the other. This has nothing to do with the DZ generator which replicates the movement of a magnetic field.  Your animation does only a flip from left to right?
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 05:40:30 AM by gotoluc »

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Offline T-1000

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The image in the attachment shows magnet in middle with control coils flipping its closed loop flux from one side to another.
https://youtu.be/no50_5iSr2Y?t=6m42s
 I also worked on this idea for few months in my experiments.
The problem this design have is the speed on how magnetic flux changes from one side loop to another. Which is the speed of magnetic domains rotation. The resulting change of flux is too fast to induce any proper current in output coils  due very narrow resulting pulses. Which is causing output coils to be in same design as in radio frequency switching. And in practice this type of switching is good for generating nanosecond pulses but not best for power generation.

Offline jerdee

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I now understand why 6 fields were initially chosen.  Yes, frequency and relay count are important, however there is also another MAJOR reason.  It all has to do with learning how a magnet changes in intensity as it rotates in a generator. 

When dz generator is done in 2 poles (18:1 ratio) instead of 6 fields (6:1 ratio), you have less crossing of the fields and more resolution.

Stop to think about how a magnet approaches a coil in a generator.  It’s not only rotating, but changing intensity as it rotates.   Without change in intensity you do not have generator, just a rotating field. 

When you vary the intensity of the stator coils as it rotates, you are simulating a magnet’s intensity and variation.  Except you don’t need a gas engine.

Now that I have shown you, look at the scope shot and learn to understand where the fields are stronger and weaker.  This is not because of the rotor!   

There is NO hidden magnet, wires, or any any other crazy magical vortex or theory. 

Engineer to treat your stator windings like a rotating magnet and you will be on the right track.

Jerdee
__________
Fr.

Je comprends maintenant pourquoi 6 champs ont été initialement choisis. Oui, la fréquence et le nombre de relais sont importants, mais il y a aussi une autre raison MAJEURE. Tout cela a à voir avec l'apprentissage de la façon dont un aimant change d'intensité lorsqu'il tourne dans un générateur.

Quand le générateur dz est fait en 2 pôles (ratio 18: 1) au lieu de 6 champs (rapport 6: 1), vous avez moins de croisement des champs et plus de résolution.

Arrêtez de penser à la façon dont un aimant s'approche d'une bobine dans un générateur. Ce n'est pas seulement en tournant, mais en changeant l'intensité pendant la rotation. Sans changement d'intensité, vous n'avez pas de générateur, juste un champ tournant.

Lorsque vous faites varier l'intensité des bobines du stator pendant la rotation, vous simulez l'intensité et la variation d'un aimant. Sauf que vous n'avez pas besoin d'un moteur à essence.

Maintenant que je vous ai montré, regardez le plan de tir et apprenez à comprendre où les champs sont plus forts et plus faibles. Ce n'est pas à cause du rotor!

Il n'y a AUCUN aimant caché, fils, ou tout autre vortex ou théorie magique fou.

Ingénieur pour traiter vos enroulements de stator comme un aimant tournant et vous serez sur la bonne voie.

Jerdee

Offline listener192

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I posted an applet some time back showing a vector animation of how the very same in achieved in an induction motor.
 I would suggest the switches move the waveform every 20ms (50Hz) 16ms (60Hz) and PWM is applied to a series MOSFET supply the DC rail. The PWM should produce a half sine and is synced to the start of the 20ms period. This will provide amplitude variation of the wave form (sine) from 0V to DC rail max. Every 20ms the whole waveform moves on. The relays or MOSFET switches would only be swiching at a low rate. The PWM is filtered to produce an unbroken half sine. Therefore a pulsating and traveling wave is produced. Not the missing pistons but the missing piston rings.


L192

Offline r2fpl

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The variation of the magnet field is nothing more than the production of pure sine by changing for each field coil. It is the variability of the magnet and it is 60Hz ?

Is there anything else?
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 03:54:56 PM by r2fpl »

 

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