Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: magnetman12003 on March 14, 2018, 01:27:27 AM

Title: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: magnetman12003 on March 14, 2018, 01:27:27 AM
With respect to patenting a device if you post it OPEN SOURCE free to the world can others patent your device?
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: Floor on March 14, 2018, 01:40:46 AM
Not in the US.  To be pattented in must be new.  If published first it is no longer novel (new).

            floor
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: blueplanet on March 14, 2018, 04:11:35 AM
I think they can.
Patents can be granted for an improvement on a known device or methodology.
Heat pipe is an obvious example. It was re-invented many times.
Drinking birds were already invented in China. It ended up being patented by Bell Lab some decades later.
In the US, a judge has an authority to take off the ownership of a patent from an inventor and re-assign it to another inventor.

All the prospective inventors need is to make up some claims which appear to be totally new.

Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: tinman on March 14, 2018, 04:19:29 AM
With respect to patenting a device if you post it OPEN SOURCE free to the world can others patent your device?

Yes they can.
It's a first in,best dressed situation.

The only time you cannot patent a device,is if there is a device the same already patented.
I believe in order to patent a similar device,there must be a 30% change in design of the device,but it may achieve the same outcome.
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: tomd on March 14, 2018, 09:07:23 AM
The arduino board is open source. The design files are licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike license, which allows for both personal and commercial derivative works.  https://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/FAQ#toc3 (https://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/FAQ#toc3)
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: AlienGrey on March 14, 2018, 11:18:42 AM
Yes they can.
It's a first in,best dressed situation.

The only time you cannot patent a device,is if there is a device the same already patented.
I believe in order to patent a similar device,there must be a 30% change in design of the device,but it may achieve the same outcome.
  Oh come on the Arduino device isn't exactly the bees knees idea of free energy if your not in the trade all the bits are going to cost you a fortune and it has a high maintenance cost (i wouldn't solder the relays in), not to mention it's not 'relay'  ;D exactly pocket portable. The only thing you can say about it is, it's the first device to be shown on here, other than the Lithuanian experiment if that  ;D

Any way I thought Wesley had some thing up his sleeve, where is that then? and I wouldn't mind betting the WEST's guv's will try and block it or confiscate it  ;D ;D

And It's first up best dressed  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: magnetman12003 on March 14, 2018, 04:57:50 PM
The reason I posted that question is that I had taken a simple Hamel spinner and modified it so that it would spin forever or until the magnetic energy was depleted.  I am waiting out for a certain purchased part but so far all looks very promising.  I plan to OPEN SOURCE all info when done but I don't wish greedy individuals patenting my ideas once I post it as OPEN SOURCE.
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: ramset on March 14, 2018, 06:28:46 PM
You would think that an open source forum would have answers for this ?
Re patenting of OU ?
going to the patent office with a true OU device would be like ...

handing a man a stick to beat you with

a true OU device would get the security risk treatment  .

however there must be a venue for open source protection ,what do all the Arduino and similar open source guys do ...or any joint open source projects ??

are scuzzy persons running to patent the work of the collective ?? [I seriously doubt that , but I could be naive...

must be a solution there ?
maybe PM Stefan ?


we need a solution here ,since patents really aren't our forte and trying to patent a true OU device
is just handing them a stick to beat you with at the patent office.

respectfully
Chet K

Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: profitis on March 14, 2018, 07:07:17 PM
"true OU device would get the security risk treatment"

or the opposite
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: lancaIV on March 14, 2018, 07:18:27 PM
Can it be patented ?
Yes and no !
There are written international patent office rules about the limitations,
but also many patent process ready lawyers !

About security treatment (no disclosure risk):
there is the possibility to publicate the claims as "utility model" and not as technical patent.
The advantages: cheaper,no patent peers approval.

Sincerely
             OCWL

 
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: TinselKoala on March 14, 2018, 07:24:01 PM
Putting cart before horse again?
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: conradelektro on March 14, 2018, 08:19:01 PM
If you want to patent an OU device (or any device violating established physics or chemistry) you first have to remove all allegations that known concepts are violated. E.g. you have to remove the allegation that the device is OU. This formal requirement is easily remedied.

The patent examiner will not check whether the device works or not. If for some reason one can easily argue that it it will not work the patent examiner will write you the argument. But this is also rather a formality and can be remedied by changing the wording.

The real hurdl is that only specific devices can be patented and not a law of nature which is often called a discovery. If you see that a stone is falling towards the ground, you can not patent this observation or discovery, because it always was like this, it is a given. If you build a device that produces OU it will be based on something you discovered, a property of some material or a hitherto not discovered force or field in nature.

You can well patent a specific device which takes advantage of this property of a material or of this newly discovered force or field. But everybody can build a different device which also takes advantage of your discovery. People will improve your device and will find other ways to take advantage of your discovery. And because your device will be a prototype, many improvements will be necessary to make it useful. So, the professionals who take over (labs, universities) will outsmart you immediately and will file patents for their improvements.

This is true for all devices not only for alleged OU devices. Filing a patent gives away the principle according to which the device works. And the principle is very often more important than the device. If you know the principle of operation you can easily design different devices taking advantage of that principle.  This is the reason why there are millions of patents. The law that one can not patent principles or discoveries is a cornerstone of the patent system.

The most important hurdle for a patent on a OU device is that a patent will not matter. If you really discover a principle which allows for a OU everybody will take it out of your hands and many will claim that they have discovered it and not you, just by presenting the same principle with other words. Take for instance the atomic bomb, every country with enough resources built one after having understood the working principle of the first atomic bomb (some might even have stolen the plans of the first atomic bomb).

A discovery allowing to generate OU is too important to keep protected, all laws are off, greed and the need for self preservation takes over. It simply might be too dangerous to have such a device in the hands of the wrong person. And the wrong person is definitely you (yes, you dear reader, also me).

But do not be afraid, you will not discover such a principle or force or field. You can only talk about it endlessly. But just in case you do succeed, run and hide, and by all means, shut up!

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: forest on March 14, 2018, 08:23:25 PM
Conrad


It is already discovered.It's magnetic  field. Magnetic field is OU all the time, the problem is only with devices to tap it.
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: conradelektro on March 14, 2018, 08:47:29 PM
It is already discovered.It's magnetic  field. Magnetic field is OU all the time, the problem is only with devices to tap it.

Also the forces which cause the atoms to stay as they are have to be OU, they never weaken.

But for practical reasons the sun is OU for us humans. The sun will shine longer than any human civilization will last, therefore its output is infinit for us. And if against all odds we outlive (as a species) the sun, we can go to the next younger star and stay there again for billions of years.

The sun causes the wind on earth, therefore, the wind is OU. And the moon causes the tides, therefore the tides are OU. And finally we could tap into the heat of the core of the earth, which will also last for millions of years.

We have OU (photovoltaics, wind power stations, tidal power stations, geothermal heat) and we just have to build the equipment to use it.

I think that pretty soon we will have enough wind power stations and photovoltaic installations to generate all power needed (at least in Austria). I could become independent from grid power by investing about 40.000.-- EUR in the necessary equipment (photovoltaic panels, batteries and the electronics). But I need less than 2000.-- per year for my power (electricity, heating) and will not live for another twenty years. Therefore I refrain from the investment.

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: AlienGrey on March 14, 2018, 09:32:19 PM
The problem is it's a petro dollar economy, know in the west, however a gold backed economy has always ended in tragedy in the east, so try it and see how far you get!
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: Belfior on March 14, 2018, 11:09:41 PM
You would think that an open source forum would have answers for this ?
Re patenting of OU ?
going to the patent office with a true OU device would be like ...

handing a man a stick to beat you with

a true OU device would get the security risk treatment  .

however there must be a venue for open source protection ,what do all the Arduino and similar open source guys do ...or any joint open source projects ??

are scuzzy persons running to patent the work of the collective ?? [I seriously doubt that , but I could be naive...

must be a solution there ?
maybe PM Stefan ?


we need a solution here ,since patents really aren't our forte and trying to patent a true OU device
is just handing them a stick to beat you with at the patent office.

respectfully
Chet K

The thing is that you are not supposed to walk to a patent office with an invention, that can save this planet. You are supposed to publish it in every possible media. That is the only way.

Write a book, get a Nobel, go to Oprah and sell some DVDs. There is plenty of money to be made. Just don't be foolish enough to try to patent free energy

@ conradelektro

Patent patent patent. The only word between us and salvation. Why do you think there is a patent office? Free energy leads to anti-gravity. Patent the flying saucer, but give the free energy to free people.

We need a movement with some momentum, and the truth will get out.
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: Belfior on March 14, 2018, 11:34:12 PM
The problem is it's a petro dollar economy, know in the west, however a gold backed economy has always ended in tragedy in the east, so try it and see how far you get!

That is just one thing. It is a big thing and something w should all be afraid of. Energy in any monetized form is a form of slavery.

How about food and medicine? They could raise the food prices right now and we would have to accept that. You have a cow in your flat? I don't. Doctors do not tell you how to not get sick. They manage your sickness with drugs. Just watched a documentary where ATF destroyed tons of drugs, because the were taken from drug dealers. I don't mean heroin, but pain killers. That was pretty interesting... So the drug company makes money regardles of where to shit ends up? They should ship those drugs to Africa for free.

I seriously think that we need to find free energy fast, or there will be nothing left. There are shelters for the rich and important, but I don't think I'm on that list :(



Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: MagnaProp on March 15, 2018, 06:55:44 AM
With respect to patenting a device if you post it OPEN SOURCE free to the world can others patent your device?
Technically they can not. Any images or descriptions you post would be considered prior art and should stop the device from being patented by anyone.
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: blueplanet on March 15, 2018, 09:52:52 AM
I have no idea why you guys are worried so much about patenting. Patenting does not necessarily means commercialization. It is just a symbolic price tag which makes sure your idea will never get undersold. Tesla patented all his inventions but this does not necessarily means he was greedy. Marconi patented his work simply because he needed to make his technology available to the world.  On the other hand, if these great people did not patent any of their ideas, nobody would care to treasure their contribution.


In my case, I have published a technology under the affiliation of[size=78%] a university. The technology was already made available in the public domain. In theory, if I did not do anything, the employees of the university could have taken over my work and applied for funding.  However, after I left the university, I was specifically told by my new funding body to patent the technology so that my previous employer (i.e. the university) could not derive further benefits from my work. [/size]
[size=78%]
[/size]
Patenting is one of easiest ways to publish your work in the public domain and this way of publishing comes with a protection that enable you to continue your research.  [/size]





Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: lancaIV on March 15, 2018, 01:25:56 PM
"patenting" means at first only : publishing,without positive or negative meanings !

There is the possibilty to apply the work result without approval interests,
your work will become published under "open source" condition = without comercial rights and limitations,but there has to be the knowledge about the patent archive content that existent comercial patent rights anywhere in the WIPO-world are not injured,
cause if then the claim applyer will get informed about comercial rights infringement !

I do not think that the "free available energy generator"(including all kinds of energy converter) will
change greatly our comercial society,
cause there are sufficient <10Cents/KWh energy converter
and cause energy content in our economy is less than 10% !

The mostly part of our economy is personal "head costs" oriented,
bringing these down is more 3d printing and 24/365 C.N.C.-C.I.M. production related !

Who really wants to make a change need to transform his idea and solution C.A.D.-ready,
digitize 4d-formal your functional prototype and give this information downloadable for free !

C.A.D.-2-C.N.C and C.N.C.-Printer head. In computer numeric language
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: magnetman12003 on March 15, 2018, 10:33:57 PM
Might there be a SAFE way to profit from a perpetual motion device without meeting your maker in the process?  If so, step by step info would help.   PLEASE NOTE: I have not succeeded yet.
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: Belfior on March 16, 2018, 12:10:10 AM
Might there be a SAFE way to profit from a perpetual motion device without meeting your maker in the process?  If so, step by step info would help.   PLEASE NOTE: I have not succeeded yet.

Well here is the deal. Energy is a multi-trillion dollar business. Every year. If you come up with the device that gives it for free, you don't have much options. You sell it to them and STFU, or you die (you will actually probably die still...). Who honestly thinks for one second that they would let you live with that invention? They use that money to keep themselves in power and you think killing people is something they would not do?

So in my opinion you gotta make it so, that killing you is just another extra cost. Because the bottom line is what they understand. Nothing else. If it is cheaper to let you live, then they will choose that. That means you go all out. Publish it in every known and unknown media. Do captions in hindi and post it to YouTube. 2 billion people from India are harder to kill.

They can continue this shit on another planet. It has been a good run, but it is time to move to another planet to exploit the locals. I am not even kidding. If this was found first time a hundred years ago, then the are already moved on to other planets.
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: conradelektro on March 16, 2018, 12:50:21 AM
Might there be a SAFE way to profit from a perpetual motion device without meeting your maker in the process?  If so, step by step info would help.   PLEASE NOTE: I have not succeeded yet.

You want to profit? Bad idea, greed will get you at the end.

You want to give it away? They will get you at the end.

But do not be afraid, nothing will happen, because it will be a self delusion.

A perpetuum mobile (a OU device) would eventually lead to self destruction. It would be a runaway process, like a supernova or less spectacular, at least like an explosion. So, hope that you never find it. You would just cause a small, medium or big bang. But even the runaway processes are not OU.

Why don't you accept the sun as your only available OU device. It is OU for whatever matters. The sun will burn for another 6 billion years. Everybody can see the sun and may use it.

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 16, 2018, 04:31:40 AM
With respect to patenting a device if you post it OPEN SOURCE free to the world can others patent your device?


The best defense against someone else patenting your device
Is the “Commercial Use” clause.


Placing a device into commercial use makes it ineligible for patent
under U.S. patent law.


It can power an office computer or a desk lamp, or use in production
of secondary products.

Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: Belfior on March 16, 2018, 09:04:20 AM
You want to profit? Bad idea, greed will get you at the end.

You want to give it away? They will get you at the end.

But do not be afraid, nothing will happen, because it will be a self delusion.

A perpetuum mobile (a OU device) would eventually lead to self destruction. It would be a runaway process, like a supernova or less spectacular, at least like an explosion. So, hope that you never find it. You would just cause a small, medium or big bang. But even the runaway processes are not OU.

Why don't you accept the sun as your only available OU device. It is OU for whatever matters. The sun will burn for another 6 billion years. Everybody can see the sun and may use it.

Greetings, Conrad

There is no naturally occurring continuous OU. That would lead to runaway energy accumulation and this universe would be gone. Nothing man made is perpetual, so problem solved.

You can always take the discussion to the "perpetuum mobile level", but that does not help anybody. I can call it "Less Than OU" or "Not free at all" if I don't have to charge my electric car for 10 years. Then I buy new magnets and I go for another 10 years. That is not free and that is not perpetuum, but I would take it gladly.
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: MagnaProp on March 16, 2018, 09:10:38 AM
Might there be a SAFE way to profit from a perpetual motion device without meeting your maker in the process?  If so, step by step info would help.   PLEASE NOTE: I have not succeeded yet.
Sure. Market you device as highly efficient, not perpetual. Let your clients find out for themselves that the device they purchased works for ever. When they see that your device doesn't stop so be it. Tell them you knew it was efficient and marketed it as such.
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: Belfior on March 16, 2018, 09:14:28 AM
Sure. Market you device as highly efficient, not perpetual. Let your clients find out for themselves that the device they purchased works for ever. When they see that your device doesn't stop so be it. Tell them you knew it was efficient and marketed it as such.

These devices seem to take 9-12V DC to start. Just put a solar panel on it and say it is a solar power generator. It will run self sufficient after it has started, but you can say it is a solar generator
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: ramset on March 16, 2018, 11:47:46 AM
Smoky
quote

Placing a device into commercial use makes it ineligible for patent
under U.S. patent law.
end quote

do you have more "legaleeeze/info on this?
and what it would look like here?
so as to be rock solid against theft from Lurkers...

sorry I don't understand this
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: Belfior on March 16, 2018, 11:52:26 AM
Smoky
quote

Placing a device into commercial use makes it ineligible for patent
under U.S. patent law.
end quote

do you have more "legaleeeze/info on this?
and what it would look like here?
so as to be rock solid against theft from Lurkers...

sorry I don't understand this

chapter 13 from http://www.wipo.int/edocs/mdocs/patent_policy/en/scp_20/scp_20_3.pdf

http://www.wipo.int/meetings/en/doc_details.jsp?doc_id=256317
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: lancaIV on March 16, 2018, 12:50:16 PM
When I studied more than 20 years before the international magnetic field research and development results I also studied the patent archive documents and saw there also this document,which internal description disclosed a gate to Fin<Fout:
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?FT=D&date=19790215&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP&CC=DE&NR=2733719A1&KC=A1&ND=4# (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?FT=D&date=19790215&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP&CC=DE&NR=2733719A1&KC=A1&ND=4#)

http://translationportal.epo.org/emtp/translate/?ACTION=description-retrieval&COUNTRY=DE&ENGINE=google&FORMAT=docdb&KIND=A1&LOCALE=en_EP&NUMBER=2733719&OPS=ops.epo.org/3.2&SRCLANG=de&TRGLANG=en (http://translationportal.epo.org/emtp/translate/?ACTION=description-retrieval&COUNTRY=DE&ENGINE=google&FORMAT=docdb&KIND=A1&LOCALE=en_EP&NUMBER=2733719&OPS=ops.epo.org/3.2&SRCLANG=de&TRGLANG=en)

If in a conventional generator the field strength B, the length of its conductors is denoted by L and the current flowing through by I, the magnitude of the counterforce F exerted on the conductor and thus on the shaft is F = BLI.

If the field strength of the electrical device 2B, the length of its conductor is L and only flows through a current whose magnitude corresponds to half of the current flowing in the generator, the force exerted on the armature F '= 2B x L x 1 = LI. 2
 This shows that the force exerted on the armature of the electrical device and thus on the driving shaft is equal to the counterforce exerted on the shaft by the conventional generator. The force is generated to act in such a direction as to compensate for the counterforce. A slightly stronger current flow provides the required torque at the shaft. Therefore, the shaft and thus the armature are moved and generate electrical energy.

To let this half current flow through the electrical device, half of the generator voltage is required. Thus 1/4 of the power generated is lost to counteract the deceleration force. The remaining 3/4 of the energy produced or a little less of it is available for external consume.

This technical disclosure about actio/reactio force treatment shows the OU-effect.
                       Newton/Newtonmeter inside : Force-Energy-Work
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: profitis on March 16, 2018, 08:37:48 PM
"Might there be a SAFE way to profit from a
perpetual motion device without meeting your
maker in the process"

these giant corporations and the small guy from down the road do it all the time.do not use the words 'perpetual motion'
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 16, 2018, 08:45:18 PM
Smoky
quote

Placing a device into commercial use makes it ineligible for patent
under U.S. patent law.
end quote

do you have more "legaleeeze/info on this?
and what it would look like here?
so as to be rock solid against theft from Lurkers...

sorry I don't understand this


Belfor provided some good references if you are in Europe
or other countries in Asia/Africa


Here in the U.S., the definition of ‘Commercial Use’ is fairly broad
basically any purpose for which a business can demonstrate profit/savings
or any essential function being performed within their corporate structure.


Obama recently overhauled the laws in this area, allowing applications
within the first year of invention.
During this time, patent applications should be monitored to discover anyone
trying to claim your invention.
If they do, basically LET THEM! They will pay the costs for you, and you simply
bring your evidence to court and show that the invention is rightfully yours.
They will award the patent to YOU!! And not the entity that spent their $$ on it.
If 1 yr goes by, it is ineligible.
It is still ineligible under the corporate use clause because that clause was not removed.
So, if you choose, you can interupt their patent process by filing an objection based on
the prior use.
https://www.uspto.gov/sites/default/files/aia_implementation/20120113-pur_report.pdf (https://www.uspto.gov/sites/default/files/aia_implementation/20120113-pur_report.pdf)


In any case, prior use allows you to continue to own/use the technology
as long as you maintain the corporate structure under which it is used.
(this applies to people that incorporate themselves)


In the event a patent manages to slip through the cracks
it is not enforceable upon those in possession of the technology
so long as it’s ‘doing something’ for their corporate structure.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/35/273 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/35/273)

Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 16, 2018, 08:47:41 PM
If Overunity.com we’re to create a corporate structure,
essentially everything here will be covered under those laws
because this forum is the “prior use”.



Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: profitis on March 16, 2018, 09:41:15 PM
"Might there be a SAFE way to profit from a
perpetual motion device without meeting your
maker in the process?"

its hugely advantageous if you manage to team up with a large corporation on your project and come under THEIR protection umbrella BEFORE the nsa cliks on your ass because then youre graduate from unpredictable loner to a "research & developer/assistant"
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: MagnaProp on March 17, 2018, 04:45:06 AM
When I studied more than 20 years before the international magnetic field research and development results I also studied the patent archive documents and saw there also this document,which internal description disclosed a gate to Fin<Fout:
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?FT=D&date=19790215&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP&CC=DE&NR=2733719A1&KC=A1&ND=4# (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?FT=D&date=19790215&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP&CC=DE&NR=2733719A1&KC=A1&ND=4#)...

Thanks for the info. Are there any images that go along with the patent? I am unable to imagine what it is without some images. Thanks for any info.
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 17, 2018, 09:17:44 AM
When I studied more than 20 years before the international magnetic field research and development results I also studied the patent archive documents and saw there also this document,which internal description disclosed a gate to Fin<Fout:
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?FT=D&date=19790215&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP&CC=DE&NR=2733719A1&KC=A1&ND=4# (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?FT=D&date=19790215&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP&CC=DE&NR=2733719A1&KC=A1&ND=4#)

http://translationportal.epo.org/emtp/translate/?ACTION=description-retrieval&COUNTRY=DE&ENGINE=google&FORMAT=docdb&KIND=A1&LOCALE=en_EP&NUMBER=2733719&OPS=ops.epo.org/3.2&SRCLANG=de&TRGLANG=en (http://translationportal.epo.org/emtp/translate/?ACTION=description-retrieval&COUNTRY=DE&ENGINE=google&FORMAT=docdb&KIND=A1&LOCALE=en_EP&NUMBER=2733719&OPS=ops.epo.org/3.2&SRCLANG=de&TRGLANG=en)

If in a conventional generator the field strength B, the length of its conductors is denoted by L and the current flowing through by I, the magnitude of the counterforce F exerted on the conductor and thus on the shaft is F = BLI.

If the field strength of the electrical device 2B, the length of its conductor is L and only flows through a current whose magnitude corresponds to half of the current flowing in the generator, the force exerted on the armature F '= 2B x L x 1 = LI. 2
 This shows that the force exerted on the armature of the electrical device and thus on the driving shaft is equal to the counterforce exerted on the shaft by the conventional generator. The force is generated to act in such a direction as to compensate for the counterforce. A slightly stronger current flow provides the required torque at the shaft. Therefore, the shaft and thus the armature are moved and generate electrical energy.

To let this half current flow through the electrical device, half of the generator voltage is required. Thus 1/4 of the power generated is lost to counteract the deceleration force. The remaining 3/4 of the energy produced or a little less of it is available for external consume.

This technical disclosure about actio/reactio force treatment shows the OU-effect.
                       Newton/Newtonmeter inside : Force-Energy-Work


The original QuMoGen from 1977

Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: lancaIV on March 17, 2018, 01:21:00 PM
If a Qumogen will become something like Hector´s "rotating transverter"(physical incorporation from
rotoverter and transverter method ) then "yes!"

Only the generator rotor in relation to the stator is here rotating,the motor stator and rotor are physically fixed to the generator rotor shaft !

The motor is now more in a rotative counterforce electro-magnet function,as controle element.

Lenz and Fleming rules on one shaft.
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: lancaIV on March 17, 2018, 05:10:57 PM
Thanks for the info. Are there any images that go along with the patent? I am unable to imagine what it is without some images. Thanks for any info.

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/mosaics?CC=DE&NR=2733719A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=4&date=19790215&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP#
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: ramset on March 23, 2018, 09:28:16 AM
SmOky2
Quote

If Overunity.com we’re to create a corporate structure,
essentially everything here will be covered under those laws
because this forum is the “prior use”.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

IMO we need to Look at how to do this

and members from around the globe need to get involved too [their countries and laws

if there is a legitimate "transaction" that could take place to nullify  the Patent option.

How wonderful that would be for open source .
However ,we know how scuzzy the system can be.....as Erfinder mentioned
don't hand it to them all wrapped up with a bow.
and there could be loop holes .............?

or in the case of a true OU device ...give the Patent office a chance to seize such a device
[I believe there are close to 6000 such seizures in US alone [for Err .....national security }
 
can one person selling to another be considered a transaction or business deal [under Patent law ??

could a receipt or sales slip be enuff evidence of a transaction? [kept on file somewhere?
an Ebay sale??

just kicken this around

Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: Belfior on March 23, 2018, 10:59:55 AM
SmOky2
Quote

If Overunity.com we’re to create a corporate structure,
essentially everything here will be covered under those laws
because this forum is the “prior use”.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

IMO we need to Look at how to do this

and members from around the globe need to get involved too [their countries and laws

if there is a legitimate "transaction" that could take place to nullify  the Patent option.

How wonderful that would be for open source .
However ,we know how scuzzy the system can be.....as Erfinder mentioned
don't hand it to them all wrapped up with a bow.
and there could be loop holes .............?

or in the case of a true OU device ...give the Patent office a chance to seize such a device
[I believe there are close to 6000 such seizures in US alone [for Err .....national security }
 
can one person selling to another be considered a transaction or business deal [under Patent law ??

could a receipt or sales slip be enuff evidence of a transaction? [kept on file somewhere?
an Ebay sale??

just kicken this around

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-08/congratulations-your-genius-patent-is-now-a-military-secret

Funny how national security always demands that you give your rights away. Boeing, Lockeed-martin and Raytheon excecs make millions in bonuses and the marine with a sick mother stands in guard of the labs&hangars. Somehow national security only benefits some people.

Khron said in -62 that his network analyzer would run on its own after it was started:

http://www.cheniere.org/misc/kron.htm

If the military is not giving this shit to people, then who's military is it then?
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: conradelektro on March 23, 2018, 01:57:55 PM
From many posts concerning "how to give the world free energy" I see a deep confusion:

1) Do you want to make money from your invention or discovery?

Then you have to file a patent and you seek investors and you do all the things people are doing when "doing business". Of course, you might not succeed, as most of the people do not succeed in this world. (Remember, only a few become rich, most stay poor and some just survive a little bit better than others.)

You also fall in this category of people if you think that you are entitled to get money for your invention. Or if you think that you should just get a handsome sum for your efforts.

It also does not help if you argue that the patent system is bad and that you just want to sell something great to the world because you are such a good guy.

Whatever is your criticism of the world, as long as you want money or compensation, you are in line with "the business world", no matter how you hide it or how much you think you are better or different.

2) You want to give your invention or discovery away for free?

Well, where is the problem, just give.

If you are afraid that it will be suppressed, give it away over the internet world wide. Nobody has power over every country. Of course, others will profit. But that is what you want.

But I am absolutely sure that nobody who really has something good wants to give it away for free and will utter and stammer thousands of excuses for wanting to profit.

So, good people make your choice! Are you just like me or are you the messias?

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: ramset on March 23, 2018, 03:00:38 PM
Conrad
Surely you would not imply that your [or our] need for wealth could survive the cost to human life ?


you better take a long look in the mirror and ask yourself that question ,make sure you look in the eyes

is Stefan the messiah ?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome to OverUnity.com The International Open Source Free Energy Research Forum

  free energy  will change the world - free  energy will stop all environmental pollution
 Free energy will help to heal the planet earth.
 In our disccusion forum www.overunity.com (http://www.overunity.com) we talk about all kinds of free energy and alternative
 and renewable energy systems.
 The world will soon be very green without any pollution and any chemical fuel polutants
 with this new  technolgy.
 What Tesla has begun in the 19th and 20th century we will now bring to
 market in the 21th century.
 With permanent magnet motors and Solid State magnet free energy convertes into the future.
 
 
 free energy (http://www.overunity.com)  will give us hope
 and we will not surrender until free energy (http://www.overunity.de) will be enabled all over the world to power cars, ships and trains and
 Free energy (http://www.overunity.com) will help the poor to become independent of needing expensive fuels.
 
 So all in all  Free energy (http://www.overunity.de) will bring far more peace to the world than any other invention has already brought to the world. 
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 23, 2018, 03:23:15 PM
If you are after money, this is certainly the wrong field of work for you.
There is no profit in “free energy”, otherwise it is not “free”.


This is our dilemma


If you want to sell your device for a profit, stand in line behind the
already successful power conglomerates.


You’re in the wrong place here.
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: lancaIV on March 24, 2018, 01:52:26 PM
Conrad,
most part of the consumer-world is a "ready2use/drop-away" society !

They would neither prefer a FE-device kit-solution nor a DIY-plan !
 
Your meant clients which have got the minimal skills and tools/work-bench at home make probably only 1% from  the total energy market !

How many homeowners has their own solar plant self-built/connected and installed ?
                                                        aero-gen

90% of the "renewable energy market" is often 100%-credit financed,without all the industrial normations and warranties and under -strict- finance law and order conditions probably we would only have 1/10 of the installed GW worldwide !



How many energy user have quality trust in their own skills ?
How many can re-/wind a motor/generator/transformator coil ?

Where is today a professional electric appliances repair shop to find ,urban/rural zone ?

How good is the work of a professional electrician who shall repair/change FE device pieces ?!

All the pro/contra arguments for "open source" or "comercial right applying"
are "case a.,b.,...-related,
for example "comercial right" give you the possibilty to initiate a
"co-operative"/Genossenschaft,
where the interest is to serve the co-operative-members

f.e. to get 50% and more gross buying discount
f.e. to let machine special pieces,where the middle price for 100 would be 5$,for 1000 only 1$

Professional comerce under "open source" conditioning : eG-economy
                                                                                  Raiffeisen
Sincerely
             OCWL
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: Floor on March 24, 2018, 03:31:05 PM

If you are putting some thing into the public domain, and you don't
adequately describe just what that some thing is.....  Well .....
You may not have protected it (in the interest of national security / global security)
from exclusive possession by folks that's more based in  fear and divisiveness.

                              see PDF below

                             
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: NerzhDishual on March 24, 2018, 11:02:31 PM
"Might there be a SAFE way to profit from a perpetual motion device without meeting your maker in the process."

LOL! This is a very admirable and funny statement and I will steal it!.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Parrot Sketch - Monty Python's The Flying Circus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npjOSLCR2hE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npjOSLCR2hE)

That is what I call a dead parrot.
....
That parrot is definetly deceased
......
This parrot is no more.
It has ceased to be.
It expired and gone to meet his maker.
This is a late parrot.

All the best,
Jean
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: NerzhDishual on March 24, 2018, 11:39:29 PM
Floor, in you file "Claims and examples.pdf", do you mean something like this:
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: profitis on March 26, 2018, 01:02:47 PM
"Floor, in you file "Claims and examples.pdf", do
you mean something like this"

sort of.you must remember that each half has difrnt r.o.r. and that is rather independant from that
Title: Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
Post by: Floor on March 26, 2018, 09:16:09 PM
@nerzhdishual

Yes I did not graphically represent an axle / axis of rotation and should have, but instead only mentioned it in text.

yes as an example of prior art in which the ratio of the magnitude of the mechanical force to distance as
input (on one pulley) is different from the ratio of the magnitude of the mechanical force to distance as
output (another pulley) when they share a common axle of rotation. 

I intended that I would not make any stipulations as to the magnitudes of those forces, or of those ratios,
nor of the directions of the changes in those ratios.

I didn't put much effort into that part of the presentation.  Also it might have been best to have used
the words "prior art" in reference to those "well know examples".

                        thanks
                            floor