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Author Topic: Posting an open source device for free to the world.  (Read 5445 times)

Offline magnetman12003

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Posting an open source device for free to the world.
« on: March 14, 2018, 01:27:27 AM »
With respect to patenting a device if you post it OPEN SOURCE free to the world can others patent your device?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Floor

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Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2018, 01:40:46 AM »
Not in the US.  To be pattented in must be new.  If published first it is no longer novel (new).

            floor

Offline blueplanet

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Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2018, 04:11:35 AM »
I think they can.
Patents can be granted for an improvement on a known device or methodology.
Heat pipe is an obvious example. It was re-invented many times.
Drinking birds were already invented in China. It ended up being patented by Bell Lab some decades later.
In the US, a judge has an authority to take off the ownership of a patent from an inventor and re-assign it to another inventor.

All the prospective inventors need is to make up some claims which appear to be totally new.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2018, 04:11:35 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2018, 04:19:29 AM »
With respect to patenting a device if you post it OPEN SOURCE free to the world can others patent your device?

Yes they can.
It's a first in,best dressed situation.

The only time you cannot patent a device,is if there is a device the same already patented.
I believe in order to patent a similar device,there must be a 30% change in design of the device,but it may achieve the same outcome.

Offline tomd

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Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2018, 09:07:23 AM »
The arduino board is open source. The design files are licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike license, which allows for both personal and commercial derivative works.  https://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/FAQ#toc3

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2018, 09:07:23 AM »
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Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2018, 11:18:42 AM »
Yes they can.
It's a first in,best dressed situation.

The only time you cannot patent a device,is if there is a device the same already patented.
I believe in order to patent a similar device,there must be a 30% change in design of the device,but it may achieve the same outcome.
  Oh come on the Arduino device isn't exactly the bees knees idea of free energy if your not in the trade all the bits are going to cost you a fortune and it has a high maintenance cost (i wouldn't solder the relays in), not to mention it's not 'relay'  ;D exactly pocket portable. The only thing you can say about it is, it's the first device to be shown on here, other than the Lithuanian experiment if that  ;D

Any way I thought Wesley had some thing up his sleeve, where is that then? and I wouldn't mind betting the WEST's guv's will try and block it or confiscate it  ;D ;D

And It's first up best dressed  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline magnetman12003

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Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2018, 04:57:50 PM »
The reason I posted that question is that I had taken a simple Hamel spinner and modified it so that it would spin forever or until the magnetic energy was depleted.  I am waiting out for a certain purchased part but so far all looks very promising.  I plan to OPEN SOURCE all info when done but I don't wish greedy individuals patenting my ideas once I post it as OPEN SOURCE.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2018, 04:57:50 PM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2018, 06:28:46 PM »
You would think that an open source forum would have answers for this ?
Re patenting of OU ?
going to the patent office with a true OU device would be like ...

handing a man a stick to beat you with

a true OU device would get the security risk treatment  .

however there must be a venue for open source protection ,what do all the Arduino and similar open source guys do ...or any joint open source projects ??

are scuzzy persons running to patent the work of the collective ?? [I seriously doubt that , but I could be naive...

must be a solution there ?
maybe PM Stefan ?


we need a solution here ,since patents really aren't our forte and trying to patent a true OU device
is just handing them a stick to beat you with at the patent office.

respectfully
Chet K


Offline profitis

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Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2018, 07:07:17 PM »
"true OU device would get the security risk treatment"

or the opposite

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2018, 07:07:17 PM »
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Offline lancaIV

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Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2018, 07:18:27 PM »
Can it be patented ?
Yes and no !
There are written international patent office rules about the limitations,
but also many patent process ready lawyers !

About security treatment (no disclosure risk):
there is the possibility to publicate the claims as "utility model" and not as technical patent.
The advantages: cheaper,no patent peers approval.

Sincerely
             OCWL

 

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2018, 07:24:01 PM »
Putting cart before horse again?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2018, 07:24:01 PM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2018, 08:19:01 PM »
If you want to patent an OU device (or any device violating established physics or chemistry) you first have to remove all allegations that known concepts are violated. E.g. you have to remove the allegation that the device is OU. This formal requirement is easily remedied.

The patent examiner will not check whether the device works or not. If for some reason one can easily argue that it it will not work the patent examiner will write you the argument. But this is also rather a formality and can be remedied by changing the wording.

The real hurdl is that only specific devices can be patented and not a law of nature which is often called a discovery. If you see that a stone is falling towards the ground, you can not patent this observation or discovery, because it always was like this, it is a given. If you build a device that produces OU it will be based on something you discovered, a property of some material or a hitherto not discovered force or field in nature.

You can well patent a specific device which takes advantage of this property of a material or of this newly discovered force or field. But everybody can build a different device which also takes advantage of your discovery. People will improve your device and will find other ways to take advantage of your discovery. And because your device will be a prototype, many improvements will be necessary to make it useful. So, the professionals who take over (labs, universities) will outsmart you immediately and will file patents for their improvements.

This is true for all devices not only for alleged OU devices. Filing a patent gives away the principle according to which the device works. And the principle is very often more important than the device. If you know the principle of operation you can easily design different devices taking advantage of that principle.  This is the reason why there are millions of patents. The law that one can not patent principles or discoveries is a cornerstone of the patent system.

The most important hurdle for a patent on a OU device is that a patent will not matter. If you really discover a principle which allows for a OU everybody will take it out of your hands and many will claim that they have discovered it and not you, just by presenting the same principle with other words. Take for instance the atomic bomb, every country with enough resources built one after having understood the working principle of the first atomic bomb (some might even have stolen the plans of the first atomic bomb).

A discovery allowing to generate OU is too important to keep protected, all laws are off, greed and the need for self preservation takes over. It simply might be too dangerous to have such a device in the hands of the wrong person. And the wrong person is definitely you (yes, you dear reader, also me).

But do not be afraid, you will not discover such a principle or force or field. You can only talk about it endlessly. But just in case you do succeed, run and hide, and by all means, shut up!

Greetings, Conrad

Offline forest

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Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2018, 08:23:25 PM »
Conrad


It is already discovered.It's magnetic  field. Magnetic field is OU all the time, the problem is only with devices to tap it.

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2018, 08:47:29 PM »
It is already discovered.It's magnetic  field. Magnetic field is OU all the time, the problem is only with devices to tap it.

Also the forces which cause the atoms to stay as they are have to be OU, they never weaken.

But for practical reasons the sun is OU for us humans. The sun will shine longer than any human civilization will last, therefore its output is infinit for us. And if against all odds we outlive (as a species) the sun, we can go to the next younger star and stay there again for billions of years.

The sun causes the wind on earth, therefore, the wind is OU. And the moon causes the tides, therefore the tides are OU. And finally we could tap into the heat of the core of the earth, which will also last for millions of years.

We have OU (photovoltaics, wind power stations, tidal power stations, geothermal heat) and we just have to build the equipment to use it.

I think that pretty soon we will have enough wind power stations and photovoltaic installations to generate all power needed (at least in Austria). I could become independent from grid power by investing about 40.000.-- EUR in the necessary equipment (photovoltaic panels, batteries and the electronics). But I need less than 2000.-- per year for my power (electricity, heating) and will not live for another twenty years. Therefore I refrain from the investment.

Greetings, Conrad

Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Posting an open source device for free to the world.
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2018, 09:32:19 PM »
The problem is it's a petro dollar economy, know in the west, however a gold backed economy has always ended in tragedy in the east, so try it and see how far you get!

 

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