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Author Topic: Single V Bifilar coils  (Read 2773 times)

Offline tinman

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Single V Bifilar coils
« on: March 09, 2018, 01:57:06 PM »
I am starting this thread,due to the ongoing debate between the single wound coil,and the bifilar wound coil.

First up-->syncro1,you are banned from posting in this thread,in the hope's that others such as TK will be able to contribute to this thread,without your continued harassment and unfounded garbage.

Mag's,please feel free to post any opposition or counter claims you have found,as i am only presenting what i have found in my test's,and what i understand to be facts.

To make things easy to follow,lets all stick to the term bifi coil to describe the bifilar wound coil,and mono coil to describe a standard single strand wound coil

One of the things i hear that is suppose to make the bifi coil better than a mono coil,is the potential difference in voltage between the two adjacent windings of each set of windings.
For example--if we have say 50 volts across our bifi coil,then there would be a 25 volt difference between each winding on winding 1,and the same number winding on winding 2.
With our mono coil,the voltage between each turn would be much lower,and that depends on the number of turns on the coil. If we had 50 turns,then it would be about 1 volt between each adjacent turn.

Some think this is a good thing,but i say this is a bad thing,and the testing i have done seems to back me up,so we will cover this in this first post.

Why is it a bad thing?
Well,the one thing we know about the bifi coil(and i think we all agree on this),is that it has a higher capacitance value to that of a mono coil with the same amount of turns,same size wire-etc.

This is where we get into Dielectric losses. In the case of our coil's,the dielectric is mostly the insulation on our winding wire,and with a !not so neatly wound coil!,a small portion of the dielectric would be air.

What are dielectric losses?
Dielectric loss is the absorption of electrical energy by a dielectric material in a changing electric field,where the loss is shown as waste heat. This loss increases as the potential difference between the two conductive plates(in our case,the two adjacent turns of our coils)increases,and /or the frequency increases. All dielectric materials have charges,and the electric field between the charged plates wants to twist and turn these charges in the dielectric,so as the negative charges are aligned with the positively charged plate,and the positive charges are aligned with the negatively charged plate. This twisting and turning of charges in the dielectric material causes friction and thus heat. This action also requires energy,and thus we are back at the top of this paragraph -->Dielectric loss is the absorption of electrical energy

The very same happens in the cap to cap transfer.
While we may end up with the same amount of charge in the two caps as what we started with in the single cap,we would have lost half of our stored energy in the way of dissipated heat through dielectric loss.
If we place some sort of resistive load between the caps during our cap to cap transfer,then the dielectric stress is reduced,f electrical energydue to a lower flow of displacement current,but we then get an increase in heat loss,due to an increase in resistive losses.
Regardless of what value the resistance is between the two cap's,where you drop in one loss,you gain in the other,and the result is always the same-->half the stored energy lost to heat dissipation.

So this is why i believe that the mono coil will alway deliver more energy to a load to that of a bifi coil,as less input energy is lost to Dielectric loss/heat.

We can(and i have) test this very easily.
We simply send pulses of electrical energy of the same value to each coil for a period of time,and see which coil gets hotter in that time-->i'll give you one guess as to which one dissipates more energy in the way of heat in that given time. ;)

Next we will look at each coil,and see if in fact the bifi coil accepts more energy from our inductive kickback than that of the mono coil.

We will look at both the receiving coil being loaded and unloaded.
Hopefully Mag's will post his findings here as well.


Offline tinman

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Re: Single V Bifilar coils
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2018, 04:34:59 PM »
Yes Erfinder,your post has been removed.

This is a thread where,if you make a claim against what i present,then you will back that claim up with both an accurate description and proof.

There will be no guessing games here,no riddles to decipher--it has happened far to many times.