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Author Topic: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !  (Read 2213915 times)

gurangax

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #630 on: February 27, 2008, 01:11:45 PM »
why dont you guys use the device to compress air and use the air compression to run a gravity wheel. and from the gravity wheel use a bit output to oscillate the pendulum. It might just work like that.

-regards-

hansvonlieven

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #631 on: February 27, 2008, 06:03:38 PM »
@ gurangax

What is a "Gravity Wheel"? Don't you mean a flywheel?

You can do all sorts of things with it, the sad fact is that there is not enough energy in the system to drive itself.

Hans von Lieven

helmut

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #632 on: February 27, 2008, 06:47:59 PM »
why dont you guys use the device to compress air and use the air compression to run a gravity wheel. and from the gravity wheel use a bit output to oscillate the pendulum. It might just work like that.

-regards-

@gurangax
Why to go via air? Do you know the fuelles design of their Gravity engine?

Just have a look at it and than emagine to change the air zylinder against a milkovich device.

I have not testet yet.But i think it is worth to do so.

helmut

Scorpile

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #633 on: February 29, 2008, 06:06:52 PM »
I haven't readen all th thread... an admin should left only "conclusive" comments on this thread.

I have to add my 2 cents... well i think i can.

For what i see, this system produces more energy in form of torque.

What we need to do is use a rotaing motor to rotate an unbalanced flywheel lets say, with 10kg on one end.  Let's start with the weight in the dead upper centre and apply current to the motor only to accelerate it enough (when going down only at the first 15 or 20 degrees i thnk) to complete the revolution and do it again.

Because of kinetic force involved in the rotation of the unbalanced flywheel, the motor should not need to be really powerfull, because we are starting rotation from dead upper centre, so the wieght itself gives the power to the system to complete the revolution when you add the acceleration.

Then measure how much power we use on every revolution (obviously watts).

Then maybe use the same "flashlight" generator he used to see if we can obtain more watts than used on the "unbalanced flywheel motor", and probably attach the flashlight generators to a capacitors, with a mechanical relay on the arm to sent the power from capacitor to the motor.

If this work then i'm the winner of the contest??? Because i live in Panama and my salary isn't enough for sustain my family, i have too many debts right now.

I think this is the simpliest way to make the close loop and will work but have not enough money to build it.  Should i close my mouth, because the calculations of other members shows that the device will not offer any OU?
« Last Edit: February 29, 2008, 08:32:03 PM by Scorpile »

eugene-g

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #634 on: March 03, 2008, 01:42:11 AM »
Greetings!
I took the time to read all 43 pages of this discussion. Very interesting and promising.
I'm going to try and build this device, but I would like to break this process into multiple phases.
First, I want to find a way to sustain the amplitude of the pendulum motion without attaching it to the lever.
The two questions I have for this forum:

1 Would it make sense to use a low friction ball-bearing  as a pivot or is there a more efficient way
2 Is it worthwhile to experiment with using a permanent magnet add an additional pool to the bob when it is nearing the point zero-gravity

Look forward to your suggestions.

-Eugene

Scorpile

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #635 on: March 03, 2008, 04:55:57 PM »
How you plan to complete the close loop?  I belive the way i say is the most easy to do it, and because to make an unbalanced flywheel starting at dead upper center to complete a turn, you need only a small and not really powerfull motor.  You could use a heavy weight and a geared small motor.  That's why i think this system can work.

Scorpile

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #636 on: March 03, 2008, 06:08:00 PM »
Ok... look at the model i did.

(http://pabo.com.pa/joe/oscilation.jpg)

For me it's interesting that applying a force of 6.6N allows you to lift a mass of 50Kg.  And applying 6.6N only allows you to lift 0.673Kg.

Can this allows us to use a generator geared like the next one, and charge capacitors to generate the 6.6N of force to spin the flywheel?

(http://www.learningthings.us/acatalog/Kineticflashlight.jpg)

Here is my model.

http://pabo.com.pa/joe/oscilation.wm2d
« Last Edit: March 03, 2008, 06:59:47 PM by Scorpile »

FreeEnergy

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #637 on: March 03, 2008, 10:22:13 PM »
Ok... look at the model i did.

(http://pabo.com.pa/joe/oscilation.jpg)

For me it's interesting that applying a force of 6.6N allows you to lift a mass of 50Kg.  And applying 6.6N only allows you to lift 0.673Kg.

Can this allows us to use a generator geared like the next one, and charge capacitors to generate the 6.6N of force to spin the flywheel?

(http://www.learningthings.us/acatalog/Kineticflashlight.jpg)

Here is my model.

http://pabo.com.pa/joe/oscilation.wm2d

You need to turn on Air Resistance. Go to World>Air Resistance>Hight Speed

Scorpile

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #638 on: March 03, 2008, 10:47:21 PM »
Hansvonlieven, what's your opinion?

hansvonlieven

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #639 on: March 04, 2008, 05:44:35 AM »
@ Scorpile

You are not moving 50 kg.

In a finely balanced system such as this it needs only a sparrows fart to tip the scales. All you are doing is disturbing an equilibrium, not doing any work.

Hans von Lieven

hartiberlin

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #640 on: March 04, 2008, 10:51:38 PM »
@Scorpile
Please post a movie.

I am not at home where I have my WM2D setup.

Do you say, you can lift a 50 Kg weight how high with 6.6 Newton force ?

Normally it would only lift 0.673Kg ?

I still think Hans is wrong with his assumptions,
cause he models his setups wrong.

You have to restrict your motion of the weight lifting side
to the up and down plane ( Y-plane) by mechanical means
like in Milkovic?s latest blue pump
and that is where Hans?s models are wrong.

hansvonlieven

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #641 on: March 04, 2008, 10:59:37 PM »
G'day Stefan and all,

My model only ever intended to show what happens in the system with various arrangements where no actual work is being done and where the movement is unrestricted.

In other words I am showing its behaviour at maximum.

Any clamping or restrictions imposed on top of this will cost energy, not add it.

Hans von Lieven

Edit:

BTW   I don't know what you are talking about when you say New blue pump.

(http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/rucnaPumpa_clip_image002.jpg)

This picture of the exact same pump was taken in 2002 ! All he did was take a picture of it in a different setting

hartiberlin

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #642 on: March 04, 2008, 11:00:14 PM »
As:
F= m x g

m= F / g

Energy= m x g x h = F x g x h / g = F x h

it depends how high you can lift your 50 Kg weight
with 6.6 Newton force ?

tinu

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #643 on: March 04, 2008, 11:23:03 PM »
...
BTW   I don't know what you are talking about when you say New blue pump.

(http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/rucnaPumpa_clip_image002.jpg)

This picture of the exact same pump was taken in 2002 ! All he did was take a picture of it in a different setting

Lol!
I?ve never seen that picture, nor could I ever imagine it is that old!
Besides, it looks like taken during a fair. I doubt there is a water-well beneath the pump. So, water might be only re-circulated from the red bucket and useful work done is very, very low. No wonder that pump is easy to run. If water was not re-circulated, one can bet that curious visitors like me would have pumped tens of minutes just for convincing themselves but then, at 1200liters/min? where would hundreds of liters of water went? Clearly not on the ground.

Lol again and end of story.
Cheers,
Tinu

hansvonlieven

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #644 on: March 04, 2008, 11:32:23 PM »
@ Tinu,

It is obvious he is pumping it from the red bucket back into the red bucket. And yes, you are right this picture was taken of his exhibit in some agricultural show in Serbia.

Hans von Lieven

BTW I got the dates slightly wrong. Milkovic on his website adds the following commentary to this picture

Quote
Picture 1. Public presentation of the hand water pump with a pendulum during the Agricultural Fair in Novi Sad (Serbia), 2003. The invention won a gold medal during the 2002 fair.

So, the pump was made in or before 2002, the picture was taken in 2003.

My apologies for the mix up. It doesn't alter anything though, does it?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2008, 11:59:53 PM by hansvonlieven »