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Author Topic: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !  (Read 1736611 times)

Offline kolbacict

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #3915 on: September 17, 2021, 07:55:12 PM »
Why does it take more work to keep the pendulum swinging with a higher amplitude than a lower one?  Where does the energy go?  The pendulum is suspended on a fixed support.
I was convinced of this experimentally.

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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #3917 on: September 18, 2021, 05:51:50 PM »
@kolbacict


This is an interesting question:


There is a condition where earth’s gravitational force (9.8m/s/s radially)
 times the distance (vertically travelled during 1/4 period)
is equal to the velocity of the pendulum.


At this condition, the energy required to keep the pendulum in motion is at its’ minimum.
This has a lot to do with the ‘natural frequency’ of a pendulum on earth.
This is the ideal condition sought after by clockmakers,
As this is the force required by the keeper mechanism to provide power to the shaft.
(leveraged of course by the distances from the fulcrum)


You will notice that the period remains unchanged, regardless of height.
Therefore, each pendulum length has an ‘ideal drop point’, or ideal maximum swing height.
Lower or higher than this and you are either inserting a driving force greater than gravity free fall,
or gravity itself is slowing you down.


Depending on which part of the period you are looking at.






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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #3917 on: September 18, 2021, 05:51:50 PM »
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Offline kolbacict

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #3918 on: September 18, 2021, 07:49:29 PM »
Quote
You will notice that the period remains unchanged, regardless of height.
I noticed this.  :)
It turns out that even in the case of an ideal suspension, without friction and in an airless space, losses appear above a certain amplitude?

Offline kratkaforma

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #3919 on: September 24, 2021, 10:59:46 AM »

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #3919 on: September 24, 2021, 10:59:46 AM »
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Offline kolbacict

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #3920 on: September 28, 2021, 10:52:20 AM »

Offline kratkaforma

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #3921 on: October 01, 2021, 11:18:48 AM »
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--

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #3921 on: October 01, 2021, 11:18:48 AM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Offline kolbacict

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #3923 on: October 06, 2021, 09:29:32 PM »
I cannot achieve synchronous swinging of two identical pendulums, by pushing them away from one another, without support from a fixed base.
https://youtu.be/2GshGk2Z4f8
Rested into a dead end. It's a mystery to me. They swing only one at a time. When one sways, the other is motionless. :o

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #3923 on: October 06, 2021, 09:29:32 PM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #3924 on: October 07, 2021, 01:08:02 AM »
Probably will need to connect them together with a toothed gear
between them.  But this will increase friction.

Offline kolbacict

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #3925 on: October 07, 2021, 07:55:02 AM »
one pendulum is attached to the shaft of the collector motor.
the other on it's stator. the ends of the shaft rotate easily in the bearings of the support (lever).
the current pulse to the motor is synchronized by the hall sensor, at the moment when one passes the other. some kind of mysticism. Need your help. :(

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #3925 on: October 07, 2021, 07:55:02 AM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #3926 on: October 07, 2021, 01:12:35 PM »
Look at the direction of force during each part of the pendulum cycle.


Think of the motor as being a free-floating object here.
(note that one axis is removed from this observation)


Now - neither is being held in place,
and you have 3 forces. Motor, and each pendulum
When added/subtracted the resultant force determines
   which one moves and which one ‘braces’
One has to push off the momentum of the other.
In a true equilibrium situation, there would be no ‘net’ torque on the axis
and the 2 pendulii would act as one. Each swinging 1/2 cycle

Offline kolbacict

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #3927 on: October 07, 2021, 02:03:11 PM »
The oscillation periods of both pendulums are adjusted in the same way.
Moments of inertia and weight are about the same. According to Newton's third law, the forces acting on both pendulums at the moment of the current pulse must be the same, but opposite.
And only one of them is swinging. If you hold it with your hand still, the other begins to swing.
p.s. In the video, both swing in the same way, but there they receive impulses of force from a pulse generator with a selected frequency corresponding to their own period of the pendulums.
There was no hall sensor there yet. This is an old video. So why does it work.
I don't understand.

Offline Floor

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #3928 on: October 07, 2021, 05:00:45 PM »
@ kolbacict

Maybe the motor's rotor and stator are not of the same mass ?

Ever if they are of equal mass ... they do not have the same inertia potential
as each other. Because the mass of each one, is distributed differently, one from the
other, (in terms of the distance from the center of rotation). 

Next..
Friction at the bearing surfaces (motor shaft bushings)...
Duel pendulum mechanism's connection to the rocking arm ....

Does the mechanical arrangement cause there to be more rotational friction present
in one pendulum as compared to the other ?
... ... ... ... ...
Assuming that it is consistently / always the same one (pendulum) that starts to swing
in your set up.... I don't know ?  You have not been specific in that regard...

Add more mass to that pendulum, (the one that swings) ?

Offline kolbacict

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #3929 on: October 07, 2021, 06:19:58 PM »
Quote
Add more mass to that pendulum, (the one that swings) ?
On the middle pendulum, it is easy to change the height of stay of the load and the load itself.
Quote
Does the mechanical arrangement cause there to be more rotational friction present
in one pendulum as compared to the other ?
No. I do not think.
Quote
Assuming that it is consistently / always the same one (pendulum) that starts to swing
in your set up.... I don't know ?  You have not been specific in that regard...
Yes it is. This is the middle pendulum.  :)

 

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