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Author Topic: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !  (Read 1659665 times)

Offline mikipopovic

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Miljkovic oscilator electro generator
« Reply #2115 on: November 12, 2013, 01:57:27 PM »
First, I 'm not particularly active in terms of electro-mechanical innovations, I am in computer business, but I do have some knowledge from that area from the university and from high school.

Because of many business commitments I didn’t have much time to deal with the idea of possible applications of this invention, calculations, etc., but one idea was very interesting.

The application of two-stage oscillator for generating electricity came to my attention.
I am personally interested in a smaller generator that would meet the needs of smaller consumers.

The idea that I have is shown in a drawing with the electrical diagram below

The idea itself is very simple, but it is possible that it is completely unsustainable, because I made no calculations of invested power, received power, power losses and so on.

My goal was to have as less possible moving mechanical elements, to reduce friction loses.

The generator rotor is connected to the shaft of the oscillator lever. Strong Neodymium permanent magnets are mounted on the generator rotor. They are successfully used for example for wind generators. Of course, permanent magnets can be replaced by strong electromagnets, for generators of greater power .
The output of the stator is AC voltage that can be corrected by Graetz circuit and transported to the consumer.
High power capacitor of large capacity is charged by a generator.
The generator is started by an external force, starting the pendulum, until stable oscillations are achieved.
Upon starting the generator capacitor (C) is filled with electric charge.
When the pendulum comes to the position near the coil (L) , the pendulum cuts the beam of photocell, photocell triggers the relay which terminates connection of capacitor C with the generator and connects the output of capacitor (C)  to solenoid (L), solenoid fires electromagnetic field that pushes pendulum which also has magnet mounted on itself.
This situation is shown in the picture.
Polarities of magnet on the pendulum and electromagnet have the same poles facing each other, so they would push each other away, thus maintaining oscillations of two-stage oscillator.

A mechanism should also be constructed that would trigger the relay, which is triggered by photocell, on every third, fourth swing of the pendulum, or whatever is best calculated (relay shouldn’t be triggered on every pendulum swing, because there is enough power of inertia in the pendulum).

The idea is that the output of the generator is large enough, so that the part of the power that goes into maintaining a sufficient oscillation is less than the total output power, so that the generator could successfully power the consumers (or at least slowly charge the battery for later use) .

Of course this is just an initial sketch of the idea, probably there will be a need to improve certain elements of the system.

Feel free to contact me, I'm interested in your opinions.


Best regards ,

Miki

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Miljkovic oscilator electro generator
« Reply #2115 on: November 12, 2013, 01:57:27 PM »


Offline Merg

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2117 on: November 17, 2013, 07:53:39 PM »
Two Stage Oscillator Free Energy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYXdLt0uxiE

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2117 on: November 17, 2013, 07:53:39 PM »
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Offline mikipopovic

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2118 on: November 19, 2013, 08:07:59 PM »
Great video, thanks!
It describes everything simply with basic math!

Offline zoelra

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2119 on: November 19, 2013, 11:40:02 PM »
Centrifugal force of the swinging pendulum bob is responsible for the lifting of the counter weight, not leverage, as suggested by the video's author.  The author needs to spend more time studying and understanding the operation and principles of the Milkovic Two Stage Oscillator before making such incorrect assumptions and statements.  YouTube is a great place to share information, but everyone should keep in mind that it is also a place of much erroneous and inaccurate information.  I suggest all forum members interested in such devices build one for testing.  There is much that can be learned and applied from such a simple device.

Assume the counter weight and pivot point of the pendulum are the same distance from the fulcrum.  Also assume the counter weight is twice the weight of the pendulum bob.  A pendulum bob dropped from the horizontal will have CF (centrifugal force) of twice it's own weight at the bottom of its swing.  Not enough to lift the counter weight in this case.  However, if the fulcrum to pivot point is shortened just a bit, or the weight of the bob is slightly increased, the counter weight will be briefly lifted as the bob passes the 6 o'clock position.  Now to Bessler's point that 1lb can lift 4lb's.  A pendulum bob dropped from the 12 o'clock position will have CF of four times its own weight at the bottom of the swing.  If the fulcrum to pivot point is of the right length (remember my statement above), a 1lb pendulum bob can lift a 4lb counter weight.  Coincidence?  Who knows.

Can anyone think of a way to incorporate a two stage oscillator within an overbalanced wheel.  The 2SO would be responsible for the lifting of the wheels weights to the overbalanced position.  The rotating wheel would provide some force feedback to the pendulum to maintain it's swing.  Something to think about.

You need hands on time working with a Milkovic 2SO before you can fully understand what is right (and wrong) with the design, and what you can do with it.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2119 on: November 19, 2013, 11:40:02 PM »
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Offline Merg

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2120 on: November 23, 2013, 12:06:11 PM »
Another Milkovic pendulum pump replica from India:

Gravity Energy Machine (The Pendulum Pump)
Diploma in Mechanical Engineering Final year (2013) project made by me and my team Jatan Desai, Amey Patel and Vinay Sawant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4gLRODJAIU

Pendulum Pump
Gravity Energy machine (The pendulum Pump)
Its our final year diploma project. We are Mech engg. students from Mumbai.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXLe6SCH7Qg


Offline zoelra

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2121 on: November 25, 2013, 08:03:22 PM »
After building and experimenting with 2SOs, you will find the device is more efficient when either the "counter weight to main lever pivot point" is longer than the "pendulum pivot point to main lever pivot point", or the counter weight is approximately 2x or more heavier than the pendulum bob (assuming both distances mentioned above are equal).  The reason is you want to counter weight oscillation to occur quickly (that is the up and down movement).  A quicker movement means more force, and thus more work can be done in less time (more power).
The standard Milkovic 2SO is a break even design (assuming no loses due to friction or air resistance).  Has anyone given much thought as to why?  Build one and experiment with it.  The reason will become clear.  It's acceleration.  I probably shouldn't have said, but I'll let you determine where and how to eliminate it.  Until you do, you won't progress beyond the standard design and it's results.
Looking at different designs is great for inspiration, but eventually you are going to have to build one.  There is no substitute for the hands on knowledge you will gain.  Forget the simulations, they won't help you "feel" what you need to know to move on.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2121 on: November 25, 2013, 08:03:22 PM »
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Offline LibreEnergia

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2122 on: November 25, 2013, 10:28:00 PM »

The standard Milkovic 2SO is a break even design (assuming no loses due to friction or air resistance).  Has anyone given much thought as to why?

I would predict any 2SO will be at best a break even device. The device stores energy the pendulum. Once that energy is used up it stops. Exactly the same amount as was put in will be available as output, minus any losses to friction or air resistance etc.

Offline gdez

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2123 on: November 25, 2013, 11:02:05 PM »
 I have done much experimenting with the TSMO, and one thing I think a lot of people overlook is the fact that you can change the weight, dimensions, pivot points, leverage, pendulum swing, pendulum length, etc., etc. You can build small models to experiment with, but a large model with a 50 to 200 lb.(OR more even) pendulum may really make you think twice about this device. There is an amazing the amount of work done with relative ease.
 @ zoelera
 Feltonburger,s tsmo method also seems to work well, despite not using the lever aspect. Or maybe it works better.  Not sure.
 Greg

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2123 on: November 25, 2013, 11:02:05 PM »
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Offline LibreEnergia

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2124 on: November 25, 2013, 11:52:53 PM »
... You can build small models to experiment with, but a large model with a 50 to 200 lb.(OR more even) pendulum may really make you think twice about this device. There is an amazing the amount of work done with relative ease.
 Greg

Rather than make such statements, that offer no attempt at quantizing the results, actually measure the inputs and outputs with some accuracy and then comment.

If you do what you will find is that energy is conserved and there is no over-unity present.

Offline zoelra

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2125 on: November 26, 2013, 11:08:33 PM »
I have not built models using weights larger than 10lb, as the CF at 6 o'clock (either 20lb or 40lb depending on drop height) was at the limit of the materials used.  I prefer lighter builds as you can see the effects of friction and CF more clearly.  IMO the current Milkovic design does not provide the answer but other modifications may prove useful.  Only time and hands on testing will provide the answers.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2125 on: November 26, 2013, 11:08:33 PM »
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Offline gdez

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2126 on: November 27, 2013, 01:12:32 AM »
@ libre,
 I am sorry that I do not have a huge research facility and staff to help me. I have built all my tsmo projects with my own money, my own time, and by myself. I understand that you want scientific results, but, Do you think I keep building these because I am some kind of idiot? Milkovic has never had his patents disproved. Let me assure you that when you are moving a pendulum that weighs 100lbs., like your dribbling a basketball, you will think differently of milkovics ideas.
 If you look at the recent posts about the overunity in pumping water, I would have to say that I came up with similar results.
 This is the reason I have been building these and the reason I will continue to do so.

 Peace all,
Greg

Offline Merg

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2127 on: December 08, 2013, 01:24:41 PM »
Milkovic's two stage mechanical oscillator - oscilating vs. rotating pendulum test
by Trajkociklista (YouTube)

What we have here is a quick and dirty mock up of Milkovic's two stage oscillator.

I just used what I had laying around, and as I always have few bicycle components.

Its no secret that if you remove one pedal from the free rotating bicycle crankset,
once you start it and get it to rotate, it takes very little to keep rotating, just a touch of a finger between the last quarter of it's rotation before the top spot.
So I figured that that might be much easier type of pendulum motion to keep energized.
Just a simple motor with a chain/belt drive could be be rigged up to drive the pendulum axle.
Now, as I've noticed while spinning a bicycle crankset with a pinkie, is that the rotating gives much more "kick" then the swinging one, I wanted to see if it would result in more powerful oscillation at the other end. And as you can see, it definitely does.

Here are the facts and the math:

Lever has 1.61 ratio (the golden ratio! just a coincidence really, since I'm using a recumbent bike frame here (buy yours here: velomotion.weebly.com :) )
it's just accidental that the ratio between the lever pivot point (actually an idler wheel mounting point) and the rear wheel axle/crankset axle is exactly 1.61, with 89cm from the pivot point to the rear wheel axle (center of the mass for the wheel, could have used a weight, but I don't have any) and 55cm to the crankset axle.

Pendulum(a pair of bicycle pedals) weights 533 grams, rotating on a 170m crank arm.
Weight is a rear wheel, with a weight of 1700 grams.
So with a 1.61 lever ratio, we need 2700 grams on the pendulum side in order to balance the seesaw, which I confirmed by placing a precision scale between my hand and the end of the lever, which showed 2700g needed to balance the seesaw, where wheel starts to lift off the ground as soon as the scale hits 2000g So, in order to lift the wheel, 533g pendulum will have to create a minimum of 2000g, or ca.4 times more then it's own weight, and 5 times more to balance the seesaw.

Then I got the pendulum oscillating, helping it with a slight push of a finger.
I can not precisely determine how mush do I need to push it to keep it oscillating,
because of all the motion, but it definitely feels more then the force that helps it keep rotating.
To keep it rotating i'm just slightly touching the crank near the crank axis, and about the same pressure on the scale shows around 300 grams, and that's just on the last quarter before the top spot of rotation.

With oscillations, as you can see, wheel did start to go up, but just a little bit.
And then I start to spin it and the back and goes wild ;)
When I give it proper speed it's around the balancing point, or ca. 2500g (or even more, hard to tell with an unstable dirty rig like this, need to make it fixed and stable)
out of a 533g pendulum + 300g pulse to keep it rotating.
But as you can see, when the wheel starts to really kick off with the raised rpm of the crnak, the amplitude of the pendulum gets really serious, much more then the 2700g nedded to balance it.
At that point there is a problem with stability of this flimsy mock up, and I also have trouble keeping that rpm with my finger as I just can't follow the crank fast enough
to give it a push when it needs it.

Anyways, this thing definitely works as advertised, that's pretty obvious I think, and it's just the question of how much amplification are we getting here.
But whatever it is, gravity/inertia/centrifugal forces really do some serious work here,
so in any case we get much more then we paid for in terms of power needed to keep the pendulum rotating, for the work done on the other side.

Great invention from Mr. Milković ! It can have so many practical purposes.

Video link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U9WUGwJNX4

Offline Merg

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2128 on: January 02, 2014, 01:49:20 AM »
pendule milkovic (mauvaise configuration)
by freedericklane (YouTube)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4bNOUqKWgc

Dispositif sur le principe du pendule de MILKOVIC .Ces deux montages ne sont pas bon car le cycle de l'embiellage de la roue ne correspond pas au cycle du mouvement de va et vient de l'effet Milkovic qui n'est pas sinusoïdale.
Un bon moyen pour récupérer la force en mouvement rotatif est d'utiliser une "roue libre" à cliquet d'une roue de vélo par exemple.

Il est intéressant de constater l'échange d'énergie entre le pendule et la roue d'inertie dû à la désynchronisation des deux mouvements(rotation,pendule) qui sont indépendant.(on l'entend au bruit)

GOOGLE TRANSLATE TO ENGLISH:

Device on the principle of pendulum Milkovic. Both mounts are not good because the cycle of the crankshaft wheel does not match the cycle of movement back and forth of Milkovic effect is not sinusoidal.
A good way to get the strength to rotary motion is to use a "freewheel" ratchet wheel bike for example.

It is interesting that the energy exchange between the pendulum and the inertia due to the synchronization of the two movements (rotation, pendulum), which are independent wheel. (You can hear the sound)

Offline Paul-R

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2129 on: January 02, 2014, 05:22:25 PM »
Both mounts are not good because the cycle of the crankshaft wheel does not match the cycle of movement back and forth
...which is saying, in effect, that it is not "in resonance".

It needs to be "in resonance".

 

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