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Author Topic: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !  (Read 1404871 times)

Offline supersam

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #105 on: December 12, 2006, 11:06:46 PM »
brian,

nice setup, however if you don't want to swing the pendulum, we have got to figure out some way to swing the pendulum, when we are not around.  i think your idea of having a selinoid kick it is great, but what are you going to do with the excess mechanical energy?  boy doesn't that seem like a stupid question?  but at 12:1 there have to be some answers to something.  i know my system wastes it in mechanical energy, due to friction, and other mechanical problems, but all the energy must be used in the end!!! i was only trying to close the loop for now, and then start working on extra efficiencies for an overunity system.

lol
sam

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline bsrinon

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #106 on: December 13, 2006, 12:45:22 AM »
Sam,

To keep the pendulum swinging while we are not around, I was thinking of using a sprinkler solenoid like this:

http://www.starnursery.com/images/items/938401.jpg

The power from a generator on the back wheel could power this solenoid.
Maybe a generator like this can fill up some capacitors to power the solenoid:

http://www.aztlanbicycle.com/images/products/lowrider-accessories/series-00123-lights.jpg

Brian

Offline supersam

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #107 on: December 13, 2006, 01:48:08 AM »
brian,

don't get me wrong,  maybe two setups like yours will be best.  i just wanted to take advantage of the power on the upswing and the downswing of the lever.  i had posted a stupid idea at the top of page 3.  that i have since gone back and made a smiley face because i couldn't figure out how to make the single direction bicycle crank work in both directions, maybe you have come up with the solution.

i don't think milkovic ever used the spring for anything but providing a, LOAD, to keep the machine running optimally.  if we can figure out aq useful way to load the machine without a spring, then?  if you think a spring is helpful, then two springs, added to our setup as in the earlier post on this site might be something to consider in conjunction to these other things.  in other words i don't see having a top and bottom spring driving a circuit could hurt anything with 12:1 input to output.

is any of this making any scense?  is a hybrid the way to get to overunity?  can it be done with one disciplen alone?  it seems nobody is getting there by themselves, but alot of people are getting close!!!!!

lol
sam

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #107 on: December 13, 2006, 01:48:08 AM »
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Offline supersam

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #108 on: December 13, 2006, 01:56:38 AM »
hey everyone,

i guess what i am trying to convey is the old story of the man with ten sons.  the old man passes a bundle of ten sticks tied togeather around to each of his ten sons, and asks each of them to break the bundle.  of course none of them is able to do so.  he then takes the bundle apart and hands each of them one stick to break, and all ten of the sons is able to break his stick.

i guess my point is in which case did the work get done??

lol
sam

Offline pg46

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #109 on: December 13, 2006, 03:34:09 AM »
Hi All-

 If you want to run a generator why not use what the inventor demonstrated in his videos - the hand held flashlight dynamos?
They can produce power from the verticle linear motion and can also be used as a spring. You can place them under and above the lever to take advantage of both strokes. You can tie as many together as you would require to increase the spring strength and to increase power production levels.
 These flashlights are made in large quantities in China and are inexpensive to buy.

Just A Thought

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #109 on: December 13, 2006, 03:34:09 AM »
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Offline supersam

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #110 on: December 13, 2006, 03:40:54 AM »
hey brian,

if you find a cheap used bike that has front shocks, why not just throw out the spring, you now have two, remove your strut to hold the spring, and just drill a hole in your lever to accept a axel through the front fork and the lever arm.  does this not seem like the same thing?  maybe you need a block under the haqndle bars.  but maybe not.  but at least you will be getting closer to the possible crank at the axel of the lever.  so i would call this a move in the right direction.

lol
sam

Offline supersam

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #111 on: December 13, 2006, 03:49:35 AM »
hey page 46,

that isn't a bad idea, i hadn't even thought about the spring tension of one of those little flashlights.  however small the voltage when you multiply it by eighteen, using a mehess type setup, why couldn't you keep the pendulum swinging?  great idea. i think what we need here is a few simple builders.  i just can't see why with x input being so small why y output can't close the loop in some way.

lol
sam

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #111 on: December 13, 2006, 03:49:35 AM »
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Offline Vortex1

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #112 on: December 13, 2006, 03:59:22 AM »
 ;)
« Last Edit: December 14, 2006, 12:52:59 AM by Vortex1 »

Offline Vortex1

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #113 on: December 13, 2006, 04:13:41 AM »
 ;D
« Last Edit: December 14, 2006, 12:54:20 AM by Vortex1 »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #113 on: December 13, 2006, 04:13:41 AM »
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Offline supersam

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #114 on: December 13, 2006, 04:37:44 AM »
ramesh,

this was a simple story to get the point across that when we work together we can accomplish more than we can by ourselves!!!!

lol
sam

there are alot of people that are looking at this site that are also working on other devices that might be "overunity" if they can just find a way to jump one hurdle.  i was thinking this might be some help.

Offline iacob alex

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #115 on: December 13, 2006, 05:13:45 AM »
Hi Brian!If a simple experiment(   www.vernier.com/discussion/index.html?topic=54   )proves that ,if you intend to go swinging ,from a 90 degrees angle from the equilibrium position,you must make sure ,that the cable can withstand 3 times your weight,here we have a resembling case with Milkovic's  device,machine(12 times more output....).But,far-out,the difference is more provocative,interesting :an usual pendulum has a stable fulcrum(bearing,pivot),Milkovic's pendular lever has a swinging one.Here is the point:unlike trajectory of the bob.When you say trajectory,you say inertia.The "in-box" action for the bob,is the same(gravity pull or push...as you like).If the "out-box" reaction for the bob ( the same falling height) is different...here we have a problem to think about.The very small creatures,let's say insects,are "ignorant" about inertia ,but they are controlling masterly their  trajectory.Again, must we  go back to nature, for information?          All the Bests!/Alex

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #115 on: December 13, 2006, 05:13:45 AM »
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Offline supersam

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #116 on: December 13, 2006, 05:34:49 AM »
o.k. mramos,

gramatical point well taken.  i must ask however why we are all here if not for the possibility?

lol
sam

ps: two heads are still better than one.  imagine with ten.

Offline bsrinon

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #117 on: December 13, 2006, 06:20:36 AM »
Hi Alex,

Yes there is that added complexity when you're talking about pendulums with moving fulcrums. You're talking about a dynamic system within a dynamic system...hard to calculate, unless you use a computer to do the job like Dingus's Working Model. That is one expensive software!! Real nice though...I wish I had one to play with.

Brian

Hi Brian!If a simple experiment(   www.vernier.com/discussion/index.html?topic=54   )proves that ,if you intend to go swinging ,from a 90 degrees angle from the equilibrium position,you must make sure ,that the cable can withstand 3 times your weight,here we have a resembling case with Milkovic's  device,machine(12 times more output....).But,far-out,the difference is more provocative,interesting :an usual pendulum has a stable fulcrum(bearing,pivot),Milkovic's pendular lever has a swinging one.Here is the point:unlike trajectory of the bob.When you say trajectory,you say inertia.The "in-box" action for the bob,is the same(gravity pull or push...as you like).If the "out-box" reaction for the bob ( the same falling height) is different...here we have a problem to think about.The very small creatures,let's say insects,are "ignorant" about inertia ,but they are controlling masterly their  trajectory.Again, must we  go back to nature, for information?          All the Bests!/Alex

Offline bsrinon

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #118 on: December 13, 2006, 06:33:22 AM »
Sam,

That's a good option to start off with just for testing the concept. But later on when you need a bigger, heavier pendulum, we may need those extra extension with some metal tubing.  I'd like to get started right away, but this is final's week at the college.  :(  I should be studying now...but this is too much fun.

Brian


hey brian,

if you find a cheap used bike that has front shocks, why not just throw out the spring, you now have two, remove your strut to hold the spring, and just drill a hole in your lever to accept a axel through the front fork and the lever arm.  does this not seem like the same thing?  maybe you need a block under the haqndle bars.  but maybe not.  but at least you will be getting closer to the possible crank at the axel of the lever.  so i would call this a move in the right direction.

lol
sam

Offline konduct

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #119 on: December 13, 2006, 08:26:10 AM »
Hey Brian. Great graphics and input. What school are you attending? 


~slightly edited~

Sam, I misunderstood you earlier on the lever strokes.  For each pendulum swing, there are two "work" duty cycles by the lever and one "reset" cycle (at the bottom of the pendulum swing.)  If you restrict or tap the reset cycle too much, it will be limiting the next work cycle's distance and counteract the 12:1 ratio. (Taking away from input power will drastically reduce your output when it is at 12:1!) On the other hand, the lever has to stay within a certain angle on each stroke to maintain a good rhythm so there is some energy to "catch" at the end of the reset stroke.  In addition, reading some earlier post on tension as well as my own research, I believe that the pendulum has nearly twice as much power needed to reset the hammer IF  the pendulum is heavy enough to balance the lever at rest. 

If the lever is balanced so that the pendulum is up in the air at rest, than there would be little energy left over for any work on the reset cycle.  If the pendulum is "heavy" and the hammer is in the air at rest, then you are directly diminishing the leverage of your hammer since the pendulum already has a weight advantage.  I think the balanced at rest setup is the easier to work with. 

If we could temorarily store the excess energy when the pendulum is at the bottom of its swing, and return nearly that same amount as it comes back down, WE'LL BE IN BUSINESS!

The power of a device like this comes from the weight on the "hammer" end of the lever interacting with gravity.  All the pendulum does is use its natural potential to kinetic energy cycle to offset the weight of the "hammer".  We need the hammer to go up to come down.  The actual "work" is being done by gravity on the hammer so to restrict anything that gets the hammer back in the air seems counterproductive to this particular setup.  ???  When I said the machine works better under load, it is only on the work cycle...HOWEVER......If we were to use some 1 inch neos (included in the design as "work" weight.) and pump those puppies through some coils on the up and down strokes...I think the inductive coil forces would be negligible to the "reset" cycle and would make use of the back and forth nature of the machine to assist in powering some solenoids.

Make sense?       
« Last Edit: December 13, 2006, 08:46:18 AM by konduct »

 

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