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Author Topic: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !  (Read 2213392 times)

neptune

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #765 on: July 18, 2008, 08:07:55 PM »
@Cleanfuture. Does your ratchet flywheel extract energy from both the up and down movements of the beam? I was looking at a replication that drives the pendulum by an electromagnet. the beam drives a crude generator. Claimed figures are 2.4 watts in and 3.5 Watts out. I think a bicycle hub type generator would give a bigger output for less drag. 50 years ago when I was at school. the school had a master/slave clock system. The master clock had a long pendulum. This was pulsed by an electromagnet about once per minute. A simple elegant mechanical device detected the reduction of amplitude of the pendulum, and it was this that switched on the electromagnet. I understood how it worked, and can still picture it in my mind. I would post diagrams, but I do not have the ability. If anyone is interested I will try to describe it. It would drive a pendulum to the same average amplitude in spite of variable damping.

gyulasun

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #766 on: July 18, 2008, 08:22:12 PM »
Hi Neptune,

 It would drive a pendulum to the same average amplitude in spite of variable damping.

but the question is: at what input energy with respect to any useful damping?  (on damping we mean useful load, right?)

thanks,  Gyula

edelind

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #767 on: July 19, 2008, 09:10:39 AM »
@Cleanfuture. Does your ratchet flywheel extract energy from both the up and down movements of the beam? I was looking at a replication that drives the pendulum by an electromagnet. the beam drives a crude generator. Claimed figures are 2.4 watts in and 3.5 Watts out. I think a bicycle hub type generator would give a bigger output for less drag. 50 years ago when I was at school. the school had a master/slave clock system. The master clock had a long pendulum. This was pulsed by an electromagnet about once per minute. A simple elegant mechanical device detected the reduction of amplitude of the pendulum, and it was this that switched on the electromagnet. I understood how it worked, and can still picture it in my mind. I would post diagrams, but I do not have the ability. If anyone is interested I will try to describe it. It would drive a pendulum to the same average amplitude in spite of variable damping.
Please describe it! Many thanks.

neptune

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #768 on: July 19, 2008, 02:45:27 PM »
@edelind.Imagine a simple pendulum. Now imagine a hinge about one quarter down from the top.  attached to this a hinge is a horizontal bar , in the same plane as the pendulum swing. At the far end of this bar is a another hinge from which hangs a short vertical bar, say 2 cms long. This second hinge is arranged to allow the short vertical bar to swing only 45 degrees either side of the vertical. As the main pendulum swings. this vertical bar wipes back and forth along a fixed horizontal plate. The length of this plate is such that , at each end, the vertical bar drops over the end of the plate, and thus on its return journey swing the opposite way on its hinge,so that it always trails behind its hinge. Near one end of the horizontal plate, is a groove, parallel to the axis on which the main pendulum swings. Normally the vertical bar passes over this groove. But as the pendulums swing decays, a stroke will occur when the vertical bar, instead of dropping over the end of the plate, will stop with its lower edge in the groove. when the pendulum changes direction, the vertical bar will move on its hinge, forcing the horizontal bar from which it hangs, to rise higher than normal. As it rises, it briefly closes apair of contacts to energise the drive magnet .If anyone understands this, maybe they could post a diagram, as this is beyond my skills.

neptune

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #769 on: July 19, 2008, 08:27:15 PM »
My last post, describing this mechanism was not quite right. I only saw it 50 years ago in the headmasters study. The only time you got to see it was when bending over to receive corporal punishment, so my mind was perhaps on other things. Further research has shown that this device is called the HIPP TOGGLE.
   Enter this on Youtube and see the video by RODALCO2007 . This shows it perfectly. Also notice the design of the electromagnet that drives the pendulum. Very efficient because the air gap is consistently small. I guess a picture really is worth a thousand words. Hope this helps someone.

neptune

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #770 on: July 20, 2008, 12:32:11 PM »
@gyulasun. re the question in your last post. This is the question everybody would like answered. This needs to be answered in practice , not by mathematical theory. I think that the key is an efficient pendulum drive that wastes no energy. Could that key be the Hipp toggle?

Talmin

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #771 on: July 23, 2008, 08:06:13 AM »
The latest news from www.veljkomilkovic.com - New video by Veljko Milkovic

Dear friends,

we are very proud to present you our new (old) video presentation.

Video: Cart with a pendulum - Vehicles with internal and inertial drive


New video presentation of Serbian inventor, Veljko Milkovic, demonstrating his perennial research work on the idea of moving vehicle without indirect mechanism (transmission). Milkovic explains a new power and how the isolated powers can perform one-way moving of model using tensile forces of physical pendulum.

There is also an attempt to improve and to confirm the law of action and reaction (The third Newton’s law), which hadn’t undergone any revision from its beginning.

From the contents: Tensile forces of physical pendulum, Motion without usual reflection, An addition to the Law of action and reaction (The third Newton’s law), Cart with a pendulum, Truck with horizontal physical pendulum...

This video is an excerpt from the TV show “Svet ideja”, Radio Television of Novi Sad (Serbia) recorded in 1996.

You can find and watch this video on the next link (YouTube video in English, 7 min.):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4foY5r2TMOo

More info: http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Antigravitacioni_motorEng.html

Additional information can be found also in the book by Veljko Milkovic "Anti-gravity motor":
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/KnjigeEng.html#motor


Talmin

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #772 on: August 12, 2008, 11:57:42 PM »
Convincing proof?

testing large Milkovic 2 stage oscillator Video 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8

tagor

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #773 on: August 24, 2008, 07:35:29 PM »
Convincing proof?

testing large Milkovic 2 stage oscillator Video 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8

sorry but it is not a convincing proof

Nabo00o

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #774 on: August 31, 2008, 10:41:18 PM »
sorry but it is not a convincing proof

It shows something very interesting, that you can create motion/action without a reaction which defies newtons third law of motion.
Both this pendulum and a precessed gyroscope is able to do this, allthough scientists haven't deared to accept this, as daubting a law as fundamental to science as the third law of motion is an easy way of loosing your credible reputation as a scientist. But its true.

Marctwo

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #775 on: September 01, 2008, 02:08:34 PM »
Although I'd expect this mechanism to be obvious to most, I can understand how a casual observer may be mislead by the 'magic' it seems to possess.

However, it's painfull to see a grown man put so much time and effort into something he obviously hasn't thought about.

It's a bit like the secondary momentum conduction device...  Ok, it's a tray on wheels.  But you can push 20kg on it with your little finger.  All I need to figure out is how to get the wheels to push the tray.  ::)

tagor

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #776 on: September 01, 2008, 02:44:58 PM »
It shows something very interesting, that you can create motion/action without a reaction which defies newtons third law of motion.

where do you see this action without reaction ?

if you can proof this fact , you are a genius
you have to become more famous than Einstein

Paul-R

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #777 on: September 01, 2008, 02:46:11 PM »
Ok, it's a tray on wheels.  But you can push 20kg on it with your little finger.  All I need to figure out is how to get the wheels to push the tray.  ::)
You've missed the point. If you want to learn, go back to the inventors site, and read the papers.

Marctwo

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #778 on: September 01, 2008, 03:27:06 PM »
You've missed the point. If you want to learn, go back to the inventors site, and read the papers.
No, I'm one of those that hasn't missed the point.

This device simply transfers energy to and fro between the pendulum and lever.  And quite inefficiently too.  The energy losses are mostly due to the usual friction and enertia acting on the load.  So it doesn't take much energy to keep it going as not much energy is lost in the first place.

Useful?  Given an appropriate context and an efficient design, yes.
Over-unity?  No.
Special or unusual?  No.
Worthy of a fancy name?  No.


Nabo00o

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #779 on: September 01, 2008, 05:42:50 PM »
No, I'm one of those that hasn't missed the point.

This device simply transfers energy to and fro between the pendulum and lever.  And quite inefficiently too.  The energy losses are mostly due to the usual friction and enertia acting on the load.  So it doesn't take much energy to keep it going as not much energy is lost in the first place.

Useful?  Given an appropriate context and an efficient design, yes.
Over-unity?  No.
Special or unusual?  No.
Worthy of a fancy name?  No.


I can only disagree to what you have said here, as this clearly demonstrates an incredibly easy way to collect more energy from either or both gravitation and centrifugal force. It as been either ignored or not yet stumbled upon for centuries, but it without a doubt working.
When the pendulum swings back and forth, it loses only a tiny percentage of its energy in the process because of its low friction and air resistance, but still though it manages to manifest a force in the hinge, and that force is not related to the swing of the pendulum, as any ammount of work done by the hinge will not relate back to the pendulum. It is, to me at least, very easy to understand, and can also easly be demonstrated by yourself.

Its funny, because normaly that's the thing we allways want to restrict or remove as much as possible, at least when we want to make a wheel or anything rotating be as stable as possible.
Tell me why you think the pendulum is in some way diminishing its energy to the hinge, as their motions is totaly unrelated to each other and unable of affecting each other. Because really, the only thing that is affecting the hinge is the weight of the pendulum, which is more or less work free.