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### Author Topic: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !  (Read 2222204 times)

#### supersam

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 475
##### Re: A "golden fish" in your hands...
« Reply #60 on: December 05, 2006, 12:32:28 AM »

« Last Edit: December 05, 2006, 06:24:21 PM by supersam »

#### iacob alex

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1280
##### Re: A "golden fish" in your hands...
« Reply #61 on: December 05, 2006, 02:46:53 AM »
Hi Konduct!Your promotion of Felix Wurth's  "yourtube" movie is an excellent stage entry.If you click   www.evert.de/eft377e.htm  you can find informations,regarding his "Centrifugal-Power-Spider Flop" using the sling effect.He made a public demonstration(1999) at a Swiss Forum,that is a lot of time ago.His aim was to proof overunity.Prof Evert is  very explicative at this site.All the Bests!/Alex

#### Marcel

• Newbie
• Posts: 19
##### Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #62 on: December 05, 2006, 06:34:33 PM »
Working Model 2D simulation
Lever Mass=25 Kg
Pendulum mass=40Kg
Lever length= 1m
Springs force=40kg/m

You can downsize the weights:
Lever Mass=12.5 Kg
Pendulum mass=20Kg
Lever length = 1m
Springs force=20kg/m

I will built it very soon!!
« Last Edit: December 05, 2006, 07:14:52 PM by Marcel »

#### lltfdaniel1

• Hero Member
• Posts: 682
##### Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #63 on: December 05, 2006, 11:51:46 PM »
Working Model 2D simulation
Lever Mass=25 Kg
Pendulum mass=40Kg
Lever length= 1m
Springs force=40kg/m

You can downsize the weights:
Lever Mass=12.5 Kg
Pendulum mass=20Kg
Lever length = 1m
Springs force=20kg/m

I will built it very soon!!

this sounds like the magic ''3'' to me,by x on the turbo tpu forum,with something to keep giveing it ''kicks''.

what do you think, would you prefer to call it waves ?

yeah i was thinking of permanent magnets to keep it running,as was a nother.

#### Dingus Mungus

• TPU-Elite
• Hero Member
• Posts: 859
##### Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #64 on: December 06, 2006, 12:39:04 AM »
Kinda different, since there are only 2 oscillating frequencies in this system and both are oscillating at a close interval. Hence no harmonics created. But this idea does share one similarity which is multiple independent oscillators in the same system can assist each other in such a way that excess energy as a biproduct.

#### hartiberlin

• Hero Member
• Posts: 8154
##### Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #65 on: December 06, 2006, 02:04:45 AM »
Working Model 2D simulation
Lever Mass=25 Kg
Pendulum mass=40Kg
Lever length= 1m
Springs force=40kg/m

You can downsize the weights:
Lever Mass=12.5 Kg
Pendulum mass=20Kg
Lever length = 1m
Springs force=20kg/m

I will built it very soon!!

Marcel,
very nice animation in the movie !

What is the "black fly" in the movie ?
What does it show ?

Is that the center of gravity of both of them ?

Where is exactly the fulcrum point in the blue big unit ?
Many thanks.

#### Marcel

• Newbie
• Posts: 19
##### Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #66 on: December 06, 2006, 02:09:01 AM »
Kinda different, since there are only 2 oscillating frequencies in this system and both are oscillating at a close interval. Hence no harmonics created. But this idea does share one similarity which is multiple independent oscillators in the same system can assist each other in such a way that excess energy as a biproduct.
There are more 2 mechanical oscillators: the Pendulum, the Lever, and 2 springs.
I will try with 2 different springs forces to get harmonics.
The black fly is the center of the mass of the whole system.
The fulcrum is at 1/3 of the lever length.
Marcel.

#### djancak

• Newbie
• Posts: 21
##### Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #67 on: December 06, 2006, 03:55:37 AM »
Working Model 2D simulation
Lever Mass=25 Kg
Pendulum mass=40Kg
Lever length= 1m
Springs force=40kg/m

What did you set the coefficient of friction to? I am having a hard time understanding what is happening in this video.

I'd like to hook it to one of these!

that looks awesome! i really hope that you can manage to get this thing to power itself. the video demonstrations are VERY convincing. however, as it was mentioned before, a change in FORCE is NOT a change in POWER. Power = Force * Velocity. There definately seems to be a dramatic change in velocity, but I've never seen a machine powered by a pendulum...

Good Luck!
« Last Edit: December 06, 2006, 04:29:14 AM by djancak »

#### supersam

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 475
##### Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #68 on: December 06, 2006, 11:20:52 PM »
konduct or anyone,

have you had a chance to think about my bicycle crank and free running back axel idea for closind the loop?  i have had to be out of town for a couple of weeks, and then i discovered this thread.  with no way of working on this, the ideas are eating a hole in me. i just can't see why it will not work.  konduct, thanks for the support.  marcel, do think the ratchering gear connected to a free floater could keep the pendulum swinging?  can you possibly run a simulation like yours that also takes a measure of torgue on the pendulum axel, if one was incorporated?  i love idea for adding the two springs and the generator in your simulation.  i guess that just gives one more level of interconectivity, in a different way, that seems to have a positive effect!!

let me know what you think.  i think this machine might be brought to overunity and close the loop.

lol
sam

#### supersam

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 475
##### Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #69 on: December 07, 2006, 08:00:29 PM »
marcel,

what three frquencies ended up being used to create the perfect machine in your sims?  i was just wondering if these might be used in a soid state setup?  have you even thought about what might be accomplished if you didn't have the restrictions of friction that you will have in a mechanical deevice?  just wondering!!!!

lol
sam

#### Marcel

• Newbie
• Posts: 19
##### Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #70 on: December 07, 2006, 10:38:32 PM »
marcel,

what three frquencies ended up being used to create the perfect machine in your sims?  i was just wondering if these might be used in a soid state setup?  have you even thought about what might be accomplished if you didn't have the restrictions of friction that you will have in a mechanical deevice?  just wondering!!!!

lol
sam
I think 3 frequencies are a minimum to generate harmonic oscillations. Maybe using strong magnets instead springs to avoid frictions.
The software WM2d cannot compute repelling magnetic fields. ( The repel force between two magnet is not linear instead springs... It is inverse square of distance... and I cannot define this parameter in WM2d.)
Friction forces of the bearings and air friction have been added in simulation. So the system stops after 1 hour! And never stops if frictions are set to 0.
I have to find a system to power a little bit the pendulum ( when it is at his higher position ) with an electro-magnet or a little motor.
For me, the Milovik's videos are very convincing and the question needs to be examined in more detail to achieve overnunity.
Anyway, simulation can help for design but it will never affirm the system will work as expected.
A new design will be added very soon.

#### FreeEnergy

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2014
##### Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #71 on: December 10, 2006, 11:46:48 AM »
im thinking of building this in a vertical fashion.

#### gyulasun

• Hero Member
• Posts: 4117
##### Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #72 on: December 10, 2006, 12:56:38 PM »
im thinking of building this in a vertical fashion.

The upper bar would move like a metronome, right?

Ok, but:

I think that in the Milkovic system the basic property of a swinging pendulum is used what I cannot see in your vertical setup.

This property is as follows: when you start a pendulum in rest at 6 o'clock to swing towards either 9 or 3 o'clock by your hand, the weigth of the pendulum's mass changes from its maximum weigth at rest to an almost weightless state at the 9 or 6 o'clock positions. And if you suspend/hold the pendulum's thread in you own  hand, you could feel this periodically changing force and THIS CHANGING FORCE IS what moves the lever up and down.
In your vertical setup, if I see it well, there is a pivot (the upper one) which holds the bar and also takes up the force the pendulum's changing weigth exercises so most of the force the swinging gives is absorbed by that pivot. Of course your upper bar will swing but somehow I feel you lose a lot of force the pendulum can provide with a movable pivot solution like in Milkovic setup.

rgds
Gyula

#### dean_mcgowan

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 436
##### Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #73 on: December 10, 2006, 01:07:47 PM »
is that 12 times metric or imperial

#### dean_mcgowan

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 436
##### Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #74 on: December 10, 2006, 01:11:48 PM »
when i pulled my sister back on the swing before i gave her that first push .. i kinda remember that that!!! was the hard part, the little pushes afterward were quite easy.. maybe i should watch the video again .. to see if i am missing where that original work is being dones in this equation ...