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Author Topic: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !  (Read 1646812 times)

Offline prajna

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #360 on: March 27, 2007, 10:30:50 AM »
Not quite, FE.  Certainly logic will be required (although I am testing a purely mechanical system at the moment that may work).  You see the counterweight spins and the pendulum swings. When the counterweight is spinning clockwise the pendulum will sometimes be assisting that spin and sometimes countering it.  The secret is to lock the pendulum to the counterweight whenever its momentum would assist the counterweight and to let it swing freely whenever its momentum would counter the spin.  I initlially thought that would require quite complex predictive logic that would need to effectively model the physics of the system but it turns out that by not being quite so greedy for getting the maximum out of the system we can simplify the logic to an almost trivial problem: we latch whenever the pendulum is to the right of the main axle and moving at the same speed as the counterweight and we unlatch when the pendulum reaches the bottom of its swing.  Actually, we can use more logic and optimise the energy increase but we should be able to tap enough energy with even this simple logic to get overunity.

By the way, can we continue this discussion in the Jhula thread.  It just saves people from having to wade through all the Mikovic stuff to read about Jhula and likewise it doesn't fill up this thread for those who are more interested in Mikovic.  Thanks.

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Offline Bruce_TPU

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #361 on: March 29, 2007, 04:11:56 AM »
Greetings friends!

I have enjoyed reading your posts for some time, both on this thread and others.  I have been working on HHO production for several months by combining patents.  BUT this lever pendulum idea has intriqued me. 

Here is a drawing of a simple, efficient, mechanical way to close the loop between the lever and pendulum.  If you do not like this idea, I had one more, using the lever to build pressure in a tank via a pump (psi) and then like hydraulics, using that to re swing the pendulum.  I think this drawing is the simplest and can be scaled down to desk size or so.  It need not take up the whole garage..LOL!

Thank all of you for your tenacity, and creativity. 

"With God all things are possible!"
BT

Offline magnetman12003

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #362 on: March 30, 2007, 05:10:30 PM »
Hi,
Check this idea out. A lot more is posted in the "Working Smot ramp from Tom Ferko"  in this same overunity group.  Its my last posting with illustration of how two magnetic pendulums might be used to power a self runner device.

I thank "Sam" for pointing me to this group.

A runner ring magnet travels the balance beam between both pendulum mounted ring magnets.  Only repel or bounce mode is used.  The illustrated blocks keep both end ring magnets from possibly slamming the articulating balance beam ??   Might not even need them??

Tom

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #362 on: March 30, 2007, 05:10:30 PM »
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Offline magnetman12003

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #363 on: March 30, 2007, 05:11:47 PM »
Hi All,

Here is an illustration.

Offline magnetman12003

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #364 on: March 30, 2007, 07:25:05 PM »
Hi All,

Check this possibility out also. The weight of the ? pendulum would have to be adjusted to have this work.    Both fixed magnets and the balance beam runner magnet all repell each other.

Tom
« Last Edit: April 06, 2007, 03:40:52 PM by magnetman12003 »

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #364 on: March 30, 2007, 07:25:05 PM »
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Offline magnetman12003

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #365 on: March 31, 2007, 04:02:58 AM »
Hi All,

Here is my theory of how this might work.


Tom
« Last Edit: April 01, 2007, 08:09:50 PM by magnetman12003 »

Offline pilatte

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #366 on: March 31, 2007, 07:31:51 PM »
Hi all,
may I have your opinion about the five drawing in the file annexed
this device is based on the principe of shortening a pendulum cable like the "botafumeiro" in SPAIN

please, have a look before on the web site : http://www.sciences.univ-nantes.fr/physique/perso/gtulloue/Meca/Oscillateurs/botafumeiro.html

there is a file .DOC attached to this post
the file contains five drawings of the device

please give me your opinion about this project because the test indicate         
NO OVERUNITY EFFECT
Pilatte

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #366 on: March 31, 2007, 07:31:51 PM »
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Offline gaby de wilde

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #367 on: April 02, 2007, 04:53:38 AM »
It's starting to look like hamel's stuff.

I was also looking at the shape of the oscillation wave.

here is an idea of mine.

http://gabydewilde.googlepages.com/gravity-engine
gabydewilde - gravity engine


Offline magnetman12003

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #368 on: April 02, 2007, 02:01:18 PM »
Hi,

In any operating device to be most effecient the moving parts must be kept to a minimum.

One knife edge pivot point and one rolling ring magnet are keeping within that idea on my setup.

Tom

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #368 on: April 02, 2007, 02:01:18 PM »
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Offline Vladimir256

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #369 on: April 03, 2007, 01:32:42 AM »
When Milkovic's device is at rest, should the torque on the side of the pivot opposite the pendulum be greater or equal to the torque on the side with the pendulum? In other words when at rest should the device naturally lean towards the side opposite the pendulum or should the lever be balanced.

Offline pilatte

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #370 on: April 03, 2007, 10:19:07 AM »
When Milkovic's device is at rest, should the torque on the side of the pivot opposite the pendulum be greater or equal to the torque on the side with the pendulum? In other words when at rest should the device naturally lean towards the side opposite the pendulum or should the lever be balanced.
Hi vladimir,
I test several devices similar of milkovic's device.
but when I try to extract mechanical energy from the opposite side of the pendulum : there was a stop of the device (the balancing effect stops).
for more details, see my post "Pilatte reply #378 march 31 with drawings of my last device.
please, give me your opinion on what's wrong with that concept.
thanks
Pilatte

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #370 on: April 03, 2007, 10:19:07 AM »
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Offline i_ron

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #371 on: April 04, 2007, 12:52:54 AM »
When Milkovic's device is at rest, should the torque on the side of the pivot opposite the pendulum be greater or equal to the torque on the side with the pendulum? In other words when at rest should the device naturally lean towards the side opposite the pendulum or should the lever be balanced.

Vladimir,

It can be either. If you start with a perfectly balanced secondary beam then the
output strokes will be somewhat equally matched.

If you bias the beam to one side then the torque is not evenly split and one side
of the stroke will be stronger than the other. A good example is the "hammer"
machine where more power is diverted to the hammer stroke.

Ron

Offline Vladimir256

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #372 on: April 04, 2007, 03:46:22 AM »
Quote
It can be either. If you start with a perfectly balanced secondary beam then the
output strokes will be somewhat equally matched.

If you bias the beam to one side then the torque is not evenly split and one side
of the stroke will be stronger than the other. A good example is the "hammer"
machine where more power is diverted to the hammer stroke.

Thank you for your response. So you are saying that a better output will be achieved if the torque is greater on the output side of the beam?

Also, one possible way to test this device is to hold the beam stationary, raise the pendulum to a certain height, and measure how long it takes for the pendulum to come to a stop. Then compare that time with the time it takes to stop if the beam is free to move.

Offline i_ron

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #373 on: April 05, 2007, 01:02:57 AM »
Quote
It can be either. If you start with a perfectly balanced secondary beam then the
output strokes will be somewhat equally matched.

If you bias the beam to one side then the torque is not evenly split and one side
of the stroke will be stronger than the other. A good example is the "hammer"
machine where more power is diverted to the hammer stroke.

Thank you for your response. So you are saying that a better output will be achieved if the torque is greater on the output side of the beam?

Also, one possible way to test this device is to hold the beam stationary, raise the pendulum to a certain height, and measure how long it takes for the pendulum to come to a stop. Then compare that time with the time it takes to stop if the beam is free to move.

Vladimir,

What are you calling the "output side of the beam"? The beam has two strokes,
an up stroke and a down stroke, right? What I was saying was if you bias the
beam to be heavy to one side or the other then you affect the torque output
ratio of these two strokes.

What I found is if you let the beam flop up and down unimpeded it will kill the
pendulum. The beam must be doing work so as to restrict the beams motion.
With no load on the beam it will go into parasitic oscillations and play havoc
with the operation of the pendulum.

This is understandable when we remember le botafumeiro, where a group of men
provide input to the pendulum by raising the pendulum on the down swing!

So if we drop the pendulum on the down swing no good will come of it. But as
well it should be clearly understood that raising the pendulum on the down swing
is horrendously energy intensive. This is the worst case scenario for inputing
maintaining energy to the pendulum ...and this is your answer Pilatte. It will take all
or more of the secondary beam's energy to drive the pendulum from this input point.   

Ron






Offline Vladimir256

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #374 on: April 05, 2007, 04:37:39 AM »
Quote
What are you calling the "output side of the beam"? The beam has two strokes,
an up stroke and a down stroke, right? What I was saying was if you bias the
beam to be heavy to one side or the other then you affect the torque output
ratio of these two strokes.

By the output side I mean the longer side opposite the pendulum. Is the device more efficient if more weight is added to this side, or is that detrimental?

For those who are testing this device, remember: the potential energy input into the pendulum (in joules) is found by the formula mgh m=mass of pendulum (in kg) g=9.8 m/s h=height in meters that the center of mass of the pendulum is raised.

Although Milkovic's flashlight experiment was somewhat helpful, the part where he showed that the flashlight used for the input powered 9 others was unconvincing. He obviously input more energy then required to light the one flashlight on each stroke because his hand+the flashlight had kinetic energy when it struck the pendulum.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2007, 05:04:37 AM by Vladimir256 »

 

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