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Author Topic: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !  (Read 1646025 times)

Offline ChileanOne

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #345 on: March 22, 2007, 02:21:12 PM »
Can you post a screen capture? I have only a demo of wm2d and I can't open files. With a screen capture I could try to reproduce it. I am really interested on this because I think somehow relates to the way to extract energy form magnetic fields interaction.

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Offline xnonix

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #346 on: March 22, 2007, 02:36:59 PM »
Here you are a screenshot

Offline ChileanOne

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #347 on: March 22, 2007, 02:39:12 PM »
 :o

Wow, increase of the power. Very Interesting!

I gotta get me a full version of wm2d


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #347 on: March 22, 2007, 02:39:12 PM »
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Offline pilatte

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #348 on: March 24, 2007, 11:20:58 AM »
there is a mechanical way of transfering energy to a pendulum

search the web for "BOTAFUMEIRO" in use in the church "SANTIAGO de COMPOSTELA" in SPAIN
there is good explanation on the web

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botafumeiro

http://www.sciences.univ-nantes.fr/physique/perso/gtulloue/Meca/Oscillateurs/botafumeiro.html

http://rubens.anu.edu.au/raid1cdroms/spain/santiago_de_compostella/cathedral/interior/botafumeiro/index1.html



Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #349 on: March 24, 2007, 09:28:40 PM »
there is a mechanical way of transfering energy to a pendulum

search the web for "BOTAFUMEIRO" in use in the church "SANTIAGO de COMPOSTELA" in SPAIN
there is good explanation on the web

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botafumeiro

http://www.sciences.univ-nantes.fr/physique/perso/gtulloue/Meca/Oscillateurs/botafumeiro.html

http://rubens.anu.edu.au/raid1cdroms/spain/santiago_de_compostella/cathedral/interior/botafumeiro/index1.html




very nice first post :)
i will be working on wm2d on this one.
thanks,

peace

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #349 on: March 24, 2007, 09:28:40 PM »
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Offline prajna

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #350 on: March 25, 2007, 04:53:05 AM »
Nice thread, people.

I found this device rather interesting too and, having modeled it in wm2d, I found myself in a position that I have been in before when looking at bessler wheels and suchlike: looking at models and thinking "If only there was some way of controlling this part of the cycle we might get energy out". This time I managed to see how that could be possible.

The explaination is at http://DeclarePeace.org.uk/jhula/.  Let me know if it excites you as it excites me.

Offline pilatte

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #351 on: March 25, 2007, 11:48:57 AM »
hello
if you want to see an application of the JHULA project, go to the web :
http://energie.cnrs.fr/rapport_ACI_2004-2006/ECD032.pdf
photo page 21
text in french (university of NANTES FRANCE)
project SEAREV
mathematical study of a twin oscillator
if you need some translations or informations, just send me a message
you are welcome

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #351 on: March 25, 2007, 11:48:57 AM »
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Offline prajna

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #352 on: March 25, 2007, 02:50:28 PM »
Thanks for that link, pilatte.  Very interesting.  They are working on a much more complex problem than the one I am proposing; predicting wave motion in order to optimise a hydraulic pendulum pump.  That paper has a number of very useful references. Jhula is much simpler and, I am sure, is much easier to analyse and predict than what they are trying to achieve.  I am suggesting that there may be no need for all that input energy from waves but that merely using the latch/un-latch mechanism ('optimal control' is the area of wave power research) it may be possible to increase the energy in the system for no (or negligable) additional energy input.  I think they (as I did for ages) haven't seen the wood for the trees.

Offline prajna

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #353 on: March 25, 2007, 06:28:08 PM »
I've begun a new thread for the Jhula discussion (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2138.0.html) so please reply on that thread with regard to Jhula.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #353 on: March 25, 2007, 06:28:08 PM »
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Offline bitRAKE

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #354 on: March 25, 2007, 06:55:35 PM »
I started over with my design (will post pictures soon) - the first try is mostly just to find out how bad my understanding is.  :P Lever turned out well with very little friction or bounce and adjustable. Seems to transfer all the energy from one end to the other.

Currently, I'm tring to build a very good pendulum with the parts I have. My goal is something that is a couple pounds and requires milliamps. Having the motor on the lever seems to the way to go because of the verticle motion. An external push/pull would have to be syncronized in two dimensions or waste power.

Thinking about piezo electric effect because the lever needs to be maintained within a range because the oscillation are not limited by the dampening of the lever. Why waste this force through restraint? Instead the piezo material will be under pressure (weight of lever and pendulum) and generating power even when the lever does not appear to move.

(big THANK YOU to all the posters for sharing ideas and constructions - truely inspiring!)

Offline i_ron

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #355 on: March 26, 2007, 07:29:31 PM »
there is a mechanical way of transfering energy to a pendulum

search the web for "BOTAFUMEIRO" in use in the church "SANTIAGO de COMPOSTELA" in SPAIN
there is good explanation on the web

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botafumeiro

http://www.sciences.univ-nantes.fr/physique/perso/gtulloue/Meca/Oscillateurs/botafumeiro.html

http://rubens.anu.edu.au/raid1cdroms/spain/santiago_de_compostella/cathedral/interior/botafumeiro/index1.html




A most interesting post indeed, my thanks also.

Go to that middle link and set up the flash animation as follows...

http://www.sciences.univ-nantes.fr/physique/perso/gtulloue/Meca/Oscillateurs/botafumeiro.html

Sine = on

vitesse angilainee = 1.7 omega 0

C de F = .04 Hz

with it running, grab the incense pot with the mouse and bring it up along side the
wheel... wait for the exact moment when the string to the pendulum is longest,
that is wit he the small circle closest to the pendulum pivot point... and release the
pendulum from the mouse...

It should run at over 90?, note this is from the perpendicular and is a total of 180?

Now we can see what the men pulling on the ropes are doing... they are shortening the rope as the pendulum swings down and releasing it as it flies up and out.

This is a "brute force" method of adding input to the pendulum and is not advantageous to our application. It does illustrate a principle of operation that in
our case the secondary beam is lowering the pendulum and thus lengthening the swing of our pendulum at the wrong time. This is a loss situation for our pendulum.

But it is interesting to speculate, once we have mastered this principle of shortening
the pendulum arm length on the down swing, on the development of the doubly
articulated pendulum, such as the "JHULIA" device. Most interesting....

Ron







 





Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #355 on: March 26, 2007, 07:29:31 PM »
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Offline prajna

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #356 on: March 26, 2007, 07:45:54 PM »
Why complicate it, Ron?  The energy is already there in Jhula without messing around with the pendulum arm length.  Simply lock the relationship between the balance arm (counterweight) and the pendulum whenever the centre of mass is in a beneficial location and unlock it when it isn't. Look at Jhula again and tell me if I am wrong.

Offline i_ron

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #357 on: March 27, 2007, 06:44:36 AM »
Why complicate it, Ron?  The energy is already there in Jhula without messing around with the pendulum arm length.  Simply lock the relationship between the balance arm (counterweight) and the pendulum whenever the centre of mass is in a beneficial location and unlock it when it isn't. Look at Jhula again and tell me if I am wrong.

prajna,

I looked at the link but I did not understand what was on the link... simple as that.

I looked at it again and must confess the concept is still beyond me....

Ron

Offline prajna

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #358 on: March 27, 2007, 09:40:16 AM »
I must admit, I nearly noticed it many times before with designs for bessler type wheels but it just didn't click.  Then I modeled the Mikovic system and thought "so what happens when you unrestrict the movement of the lever?" Doing so created the kind of chaotic movement that you see in the animation, and I watched it and watched it and I began to notice that there are times when you just want to 'lock' the pendulum to the counterweight because you know that will increase the speed.  Obviously, the pendulum would need to be released to swing again after it had added to the momentum.  It seemed that it would need some complex logic to figure out when to latch and when to unlatch the pendulum but I watched and I watched and I just knew that if I could sit in the pendulum I would know when to latch and unlatch.  And then I noticed that if I wanted the system to rotate clockwise then I would latch the pendulum as it was both a) to the right of the system and b) not moving with respect to the counterweight (if I was riding the swing I would feel weightless).  I would unlatch it when it reached the bottom of the cycle.

I will do some more work on the site so that it gives more opportunity to understand what I'm talking about.  You have to watch the animation (best is to load the wm2d model) untill you have a 'feel' for the relationship between the pendulum and the counterweight and then suddenly it will click; you'll know exactly what I am on about.  Anyway, I'll work on some more drawings that show the difference between a version that is free to rotate (as in the current animation) and that same system where the pendulum is locked with respect to the counterweight.

Once you see how it works it is so obvious that it is difficult to remember how much effort it took to notice it.  Rather like some optical puzzle that takes a while to see but once you have seen it you wonder how you could have failed to see it before.  Thanks for reminding me that it is not easy to recognise.  I'll do what I can on the web page to make it more obvious.

Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #359 on: March 27, 2007, 10:13:44 AM »
i think i understand.
the pendulum locks itself after its first swing causing the massive lever to have enough kinetic energy to unlock the pendulum and give it a little kick to its initial position. a little circuit work maybe for timing? just a guess.

 

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