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Author Topic: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !  (Read 1591969 times)

Offline stevensuf

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #300 on: February 17, 2007, 07:42:59 PM »
If anyone has a prototype a simple way to test for OU would be to fix the lever, lift the pendulum to a set hieght release it and time how long it swings for, next release the lever lift the pendulum to the same hieght release and time again till it stops, if the duration of both is the same then we have ou, if less then we know some of the pendulums motion has been lost to moving the lever. A simple electromagnet , some iron and a small neo magnet on the pendulum with a hall switch and transistor could easily be used to keep the pendulum going, (much like a pulse motor). Taking power

There is no magical resonance or frequencies here ,just playing with balance.

In my head the logic is simple, the motion of the pendulum makes the lever effectively heavier at one point causing the opposite side to rise then when the pendulum is at full swing its weight is removed from the equation causing the lever to fall.

I would love for a professor to explain to me where gravitational pe is stored ;) I have been formulating an idea in my head for sometime, that there is no such thing as energy only state,  ie hot cant do work without cold, motion cant do work unless other motion. If we imagine heat as electron orbit increase in diameter but slowing down of the electron speed and cold as decrease in electron orbit but increase in elecrton speed (if the orbit did not slow down as the atom heated and orbit hieght increased then any change in heat would create plasma as the attraction of the proton to electon would weaken and the elctron would fly off, simmilary if when the atom cooled and the orbit hieght decreased then the orbit speed would have to increase or the electron would crash into the nucleus as the proton attraction would drag it down) . Imagine motion as electron orbit change from circular to elliptical with the electron speed varying to keep the attraction to the nucleus balanced in both cases the overall momenta of the electron remaining constant.

Imagine i put "pe" into a rock on the moon but let it drop on the earth woohoo free energy, the smart asses will say but the moon has pe already so lets say i give an asteroid in the belt a little shove in earths direction there is no pe=mgh for many millions of miles. You do not put PE into an object by raising it, its overall state remains the same as it was on the ground. Id say there is no such thing as pe it is imaginary you can get work out of gravity you can get work out of heat or motion but no bloody energy, it is all just state and an attempt to persuade matter to change its state by application of force or field.

Just an idea??

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #301 on: February 18, 2007, 02:46:27 AM »
If anyone has a prototype a simple way to test for OU would be to fix the lever, lift the pendulum to a set hieght release it and time how long it swings for, next release the lever lift the pendulum to the same hieght release and time again till it stops, if the duration of both is the same then we have ou, if less then we know some of the pendulums motion has been lost to moving the lever.

Even with twice the friction this pendulum lever system is capable of storing its kinetic energy longer and swing in phase at a higher velocity. So that is why I claim to have observed 2nd law violations via simulation software. I assume the device to be underunity because even if you were able to extract this excess kinetic energy it wouldn't be enough to reset the pendulum from a stopped point. If a designer developed a way to continously maintain the intensity and phase of the pendulum, perhaps contintuous extraction of this observed excess kinetic energy is possible.

Still worth working on if you're interested in mechanical resonance...
~Dingus
« Last Edit: February 18, 2007, 03:19:33 AM by Dingus Mungus »

Offline artman

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #302 on: February 19, 2007, 04:44:26 PM »
Hi all!

At first when I found this topic and Milkovic's device (just 2 weeks ago) I was amazed. The videos looks rather convincing to me, but after some hours spent in WM2D I became a little unsatisfied. I had a hard time even get some result that resembled Milkovic's motions, but after a while I understood that the proportion in mass between the pendulum and lever was wrong ( I had too heavy lever). Anyway I did not find any clear signs of overunity and became somewhat sceptic, something was wrong, either Milkovic or WM2D or both.
The more I think about it, I've come to the conclusion that WM2D is not usable in this case.
Still I'm not totaly convinced that the device is OU, but I could really use some FE, so I'm going in =).
My replica is almost done, and I will post some pictures and results later but first I wanted to shear some thoughts about where the energy might be coming from.
What comes to my mind is a text called "Vimaana" (flying craft in sanskrit) where the auther Lehel Repits (written in swedish, printed in 1971) describes how to build a flying sourcer, both a FE machine and an antigravity device.
He is into some schauberger ideas, however, on page 35 we can read
(http://)
I will translate it for you.
"A german engeneer /Hansen/ living in /Helsingborg/ in sweden was very close to the solution. The experiment was published in a swedish magasine in the begining of year 1969. The experiment was composed of two equal wheights, each tied to a string and put in rotation. At a certain point in time the radius /strings/ where shortend. The speed of the rotation whas doubled. At the same point on the pereferie orbit the wheights are allowed to resume the longer radius rotation. According to all schoolbooks in physics the speed of the rotation would also resume to the former rotational speed. And yet, instead of the rotational speed falling down, as you learn in school, the wheights remaind in the higher rotational speed. At each shortening of the radius, the rotational speed squered to the former. If such accerleration is to be achived at each radius-shortening, its demanded that the radius-shortening happends at the same perefial point every time, and this demand also aplies to the longening of the radius. Hansen called these moments and the whole effect  'mechanical impulse-moments' "
 
To me, this resembles our case with the pendulum, when the lever flips, its like the wheigt gets longer radius at some points and shorter at some. If the timing is perfect this could tap the FE.
This would also explain why WM2D aint helping. . it obeys to the schoolbook laws.



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #302 on: February 19, 2007, 04:44:26 PM »
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Offline WhiteFalcon

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #303 on: February 19, 2007, 05:17:47 PM »
Hi!

First post from me!  I'm not an engineer of any kind, but a chemist interested in "free energies", my academics included math, physics etc... but just enough to grasp a few concepts here and there...!!!

I will give this device a try...

The way I see the whole thing is :

The pendulum is not doing "work" in the whole device : the only work it is doing is "moving the gravity center" of the lever (arm).  The lever's gravity center is a massless component, so moving it doesn't use much "work"...  So the loss of the pendulum should be the same as a normal pendulum (friction)...

Here's how I will build it :

When the lever AND the pendulum are at rest, the "gravity center" of the whole thing should be just over the axis.

The mass of the lever and pendulum are related.  When the pendulum is at its higher swing (from one side or the another), the gravity center of the lever should not be moved too far away from the axis, because the whole device could FALL OVER, or we would have to use "stoppers" (in which we will "lose" work).

The ideal balanced device should be able to operate without the need to add any stoppers, or springs.

This is how I "see" it, I may be totally wrong!!!!

---

If it works, I won't use the lever to operate two bicycle wheels, but two Faraday Discs (using Tesla mods!!), the high currents delivered by the discs will be used to hydrolyse water, with an efficiency of over 100% (plasma hydrolysis), the gases from the hydrolysis could run a Tesla Turbine before they are collected and burnt in a Generator to supply electricity to the motor which will keep the pendulum going!!

--

Could we put two gravity-machines in series?

12:1  times 12:1 = 144:1 COP !!

WF


Offline pg46

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #304 on: February 19, 2007, 07:15:37 PM »
@ i_ron

 Nice work on your test unit. I am hoping it will work out well for you and I look forward to hearing back on your progress. Real nice design!

@ artman

 Intersting concept you brought forward. Sounds like once you get this unit up to speed one could then cut the power and keep it going by adjusting the radius of the strings - does that sound right? and who is going to give this one a try?

Best Regards,

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #304 on: February 19, 2007, 07:15:37 PM »
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Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #305 on: February 20, 2007, 03:04:11 AM »
The videos looks rather convincing to me, but after some hours spent in WM2D I became a little unsatisfied.

Anyway I did not find any clear signs of overunity and became somewhat sceptic, something was wrong, either Milkovic or WM2D or both.

The more I think about it, I've come to the conclusion that WM2D is not usable in this case.

This would also explain why WM2D aint helping. . it obeys to the schoolbook laws.

Really?

I don't know how you could possibly miss this then:
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1763.0;attach=5874;image)

Look at the graphs... Even with twice the friction on the lever pendulum device it still puts out roughly 5-7 times the kinetic energy, and the pendulum lever swings for 3 additional minutes. If that is not an energy gain... I don't know what is.

~Dingus

Offline artman

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #306 on: February 20, 2007, 08:14:33 AM »
@dingus
Ok, either WM2D doesnt even obey to the schoolbook laws (makes WM2D even more useless), or you are into some new FE device based on that WM2D scheme.
What is your point ?
« Last Edit: February 20, 2007, 08:45:09 AM by artman »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #306 on: February 20, 2007, 08:14:33 AM »
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Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #307 on: February 20, 2007, 09:16:57 AM »
@dingus
Ok, either WM2D doesnt even obey to the schoolbook laws (makes WM2D even more useless), or you are into some new FE device based on that WM2D scheme.
What is your point ?

@dingus if you don't mind me interjecting...

the point is this...we can possibly tap into this excess energy to our benefit ;)

...that is if this wm2d is accurate. we can possibly achieve over unity.   

also we start with the same amount of equal energy, but we end up with very different results, one pendulum outlasts the other....hmmm?

peace

Offline artman

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #308 on: February 20, 2007, 02:35:51 PM »
Quote
...that is if this wm2d is accurate. we can possibly achieve over unity. 

First of all I think the setups of leversfe-ou2-enhanced.wm2d and leversfe-ou3-enhanced.wm2d are too complex for WM2D to handle them correct.
You have two stable points, and knowing how distrubute the powers of all the 3 moving parts over these two points is a programmers nightmare.
It can be done, but it would require software designed especially for such systems.
I think WM2D is more designed for general purpose.

And second, there is more to the properties of mass than WM2D takes account for like gyroscopic properties and those mechanical impulse-moments for example.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2007, 09:17:34 PM by artman »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #308 on: February 20, 2007, 02:35:51 PM »
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Offline nwman

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #309 on: February 20, 2007, 08:16:03 PM »
OK, Its been a while since I have posted on here so I thought I would throw my two cents in. I hate to just say this and not do it myself but from the complexity I have seen of some on the devices posted on this thread you could easley "real world" test some of these concepts. On video, test one pendulum on a fixed point of rotation vs. one on the lever setup doing no work just have springs/bungees resistance acting on the lever side. Then see which one stops first just like the WM2D Sim. Test it a million times with switching the pendulum back and forth and the results should be apparent. If the lever pendulum constantly outlasts the fixed pendulum then we may have something. This is the obvious step to take if the WM2D is in question.

I love the simple complexity of this device!

Tim

Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #310 on: February 20, 2007, 11:41:28 PM »
Thanks FE,
You always handle such posts much better than I do...

example:
@Artman
Are you really claiming that 10 components
in one sim is too much for my computer?
Read the graphs... Understand the graphs...
Want more proof? Build a pendulum, its easy.
Just not worth my time and money right now...

You've seen the evidence and it means nothing to you...
If I were you I would just spend my time on something I believed in.
(Linard Griffin H2, Mike motor, SMOT, TPU)

~Dingus

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #310 on: February 20, 2007, 11:41:28 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #311 on: February 21, 2007, 12:43:45 PM »
A very nice prototype...

So the motor will only turn untill the pendulum trips the pressure switch, then gravity takes over again. I also like that your counter weight is adjustable, as well as the levers pivet point. So I assume the pannel box is you speed controler. How has your system harmonics hunt going? Congrats again on the really dynamic design job.

Glad to see someone is really putting a propper effort in to exploring this technology.

Best design and prototype I've seen in a while,
~Dingus

Thanks for th kind words, Dingus,

The blue box holds the logic and the Fet to pulse the motor.

The motor has one coil and three magnets on each rotor. To fire the coil only on the down swing I chose to use a quadrature encoder, as seen in this picture on the front.

The opto's for the coil are just ahead of the motor. When the secondary beam is
allowed to oscillate also, it requires more input to the motor, no surprise here.
To accommodate this I added two more windows to the opto's and two more magnets
to the motor from my original four magnet two window 5 watt model... and a doubling of the weight. This is just enough power to allow a limited vertical displacement of the pendulum pivot point. The counter weight is two 25 pound bar bell weights.

At this time I have not attempted to extract power from the secondary arm, rather
I have been side tracked back to a couple of previous generator projects. I will not
post more on this until such time as I have "caught up".

R


Hi Ron,
very nice professional setup.

I hope you will get it running and can post more infos.
Can you do some measurements of the output power already ?

And then compare against your used input power for the
motor driving your pendulum ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline i_ron

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #312 on: February 22, 2007, 11:19:46 PM »


[/quote]

Hi Ron,
very nice professional setup.

I hope you will get it running and can post more infos.
Can you do some measurements of the output power already ?

And then compare against your used input power for the
motor driving your pendulum ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
[/quote]


Thanks Stefan,

The output arm needs the restriction of a load in order for the pendulum to work
properly when it's pivot point is allowed to move. I have been investigating various schemes but haven't settled on one yet.

It has been a pleasure to work with Veljko on this. He is genuine, sincere and
offers much support and encouragement.

Regards, Ron

 





Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #313 on: February 23, 2007, 01:46:16 AM »
*edit*
« Last Edit: February 23, 2007, 02:08:04 AM by FreeEnergy »

Offline i_ron

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #314 on: February 23, 2007, 05:47:31 PM »

 

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