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Author Topic: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !  (Read 1928484 times)

Offline ltseung888

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2865 on: March 11, 2015, 09:25:28 AM »
Emails have been sent to Tsinghua University, Taiwan Edison (maglev), Ymnee and QEG.

The Email informs them the explanation of the QMOGEN (reply 2826) and requests their cooperation to disclose more information on their technologies.

Insider information hints that the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier may still remain as a "State Secret" for now.  However, this is likely to change with the announcement of many more QMOGENs.

The replications of a simplified form of the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier are being discussed at a number of Institutions in Hong Kong.  Some may remain confidential.  Some academic institutions indicate that they may disclose the entire procedure.

The group that is most likely to succeed first is from India.  That group owns an Electricity Power Station and sponsored the development of the Milkovic 2SO at some Indian Universities.  Most probably, the statement from them will include a working prototype and a product announcement at the same time.

I do not have to replicate the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier myself.  Let others shine.

The Divine Wine flows...

I shall continue to sow seeds and ignore the debunkers.

Lawrence
see reply 2826

Offline MarkE

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2866 on: March 11, 2015, 09:31:21 AM »
Let me use reply 2826 in terms of Laws to do more explanation.  No Laws are broken.  Just wrongly applied in all these years.

1.   Law of Conservation of Energy

I shall focus on the class of lead-out energy machines.  If these machines can lead-out or bring-in energy from the environment, the Law of Conservation of Energy will not be violated.  The correct Formula in the case of gravity is:
Einput + Egravity = Eoutput + Eloss
or
Eoutput = Einput + (Egravity - Eloss)

So long as Egravity is greater than Eloss, Eoutput will be greater Einput.
All you have done is to declare that gravity is an energy source to your system.  But that is precisely the mighty fail in your evidence:  You have never shown any condition under which gravity is non-conservative, and therefore could be a source of energy.  Until you can come up with some evidence that gravity under some attainable circumstances is non-conservative, your "lead-out" ideas are dead:  full-stop.
Quote
 

2.   Changing the problem – no laws are violated
Er, no, you depend on non-conservative gravity.  That is an unknown phenomenon.
Quote

The problem changes from producing the impossible perpetual motion machine to producing a possible lead-out energy machine.

3.   The Law of the Lever – Clockwise and Anti-clockwise moments
Over 2000 years experience shows that levers manipulate force, not energy. 
Quote

The Raymond Head (RHEAD100) video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8) showed that the Weight W1 was lifted twice with each finger push.  This was the result of the Centrifugal Force plus the weight of the pendulum producing a varying clockwise moment.  When it was greater than the anti-clockwise moment of the weight W1, the lever tilted higher on the LHS.  The weight was lifted.  When it is smaller, the lever tilted higher on the RHS - returned to original position.
The weight rises and then falls to its original position.  That means the net work performed each cycle is ZERO.  If his system had no losses, then he would not even have to breath on it to keep it cycling.  The fact that he has to do work each cycle means that the system has losses.  It is dissipating his input without delivering ANY net output energy.
Quote

Notice that the original position (state) was reproduced with the finger push.  The energy used in the finger push is much smaller than the energy required to lift the weight W1.
Which for the reasons explained above only proves that the machine requires input to produce no output.
Quote

Anti-clockwise Moment is always constant.  Clockwise moment varies as it is the sum of the force due to m2 and the Centrifugal Force.  The vertical component of the force due to m2 varies.  The Centrifugal Force also varies.

From the energy point of view, the Output was m1gh.
That's true during part of the cycle.  In the other half of the cycle the output is -m1gh, resulting in ZERO NET OUTPUT EACH CYCLE.
Quote
Some of this Output was fed back to return the pendulum bob to the original position. That energy was m2gh.  Thus there was a difference of (m1-m2)gh.  If properly configured, this value would still be much more than that supplied by the finger push.  Where did this energy come from?
You have made critical accounting errors.  You fail to account for the energy lost when the weight falls again.  GIGO.
Quote

4.   Law of Experimental Observation – pendulum swing does not decrease
That is false.  He has to keep pushing on the pendulum in order to keep it going even though the system is performing NO USEFUL WORK.
Quote

The experimental observation was that the pendulum swing amplitude did not decrease.  Thus the excess energy was not transferred from the pendulum swing.
There is no excess energy.  The machine dissipates the input work that he supplies while performing NO USEFUL WORK.

One scientific explanation was- energy was lead-out or brought-in from the gravitational field.[/quote]Such an explanation is a complete fail because it attempts to account for something that is not observed.
Quote

5.   Extending the Law – from Pendulum to Unbalanced Wheel
There is no phenomenon of work performed, much less a law.
Quote

Thus the Milkovic 2SO is a lead-out gravitational energy device.  The Chan Wheel is a superset of Milkovic. I have the Chan Wheel in Taipo, Hong Kong.  I can claim to have a working lead-out energy device in my possession...
Thus you are unable to perform the simplest evaluation of a machine.  You claim a net output where no net output exists and descend into rationalizations after that.
Quote
If the Unbalanced Chan Wheel can bring-in gravitational energy, the Unbalanced Cylinder Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier can do better. 
Neither can.  Neither do.
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The 57 QMOGENs compiled by Sterling Allan are all theoretically possible...
No, there is no valid theoretical basis why any of them should work as claimed.  Neither is there any demonstration of any of them working as claimed.
Quote

Lawrence
See reply 2826

Offline Temporal Visitor

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2867 on: March 11, 2015, 11:54:22 AM »
Over 2000 years experience shows that levers manipulate force, not energy. 

That's another invalid assertion MarkE.

Force is ENERGY known as MECHANICAL ENERGY with the ABILITY TO DO WORK. Levers provide "Man", men the means of manipulating MECHANICAL ENERGY, at MECHANICAL ADVANTAGE. (in some cases, and even animals as well)

You can't have it both ways MarkE since you already stated: "Foot pounds are units of ENERGY: 1 lb force applied through 1 ft distance." which describes a simple lever being acted upon by FORCE. (See:  Re: Flywheel devices « Reply #87 on: March 09, 2015, 07:52:35 AM » "Your key concepts are a confused mess.")

Please fully explain your CON-flicting assertions.


Offline Void

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2868 on: March 11, 2015, 03:22:52 PM »
The Email informs them the explanation of the QMOGEN (reply 2826)

Hi Lawrence. I read through your reply 2826, and there are no explanations in there
about how a QMoGen works that I could see.  The QMoGens demos that I have seen in videos do not appear to
use unbalanced wheels or unbalanced cylinders. If some of these devices really are over unity then
it appears they are working on some other principle other than gravity use/unbalanced wheels or cylinders.
The William Skinner device did appear to use eccentric shafts and weights, so it may possibly
fit to your theories however.

Here's one example of a 'QMoGen' type device. This could well be a fake however, as you can't tell at all from a video
if such a device is genuine or not, but, at any rate, this particular device just appears to use a fly wheel, and
I think possibly a modified electric motor, as they mention using neodymium magnets in the motor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTLLnUOPOQk

All the best...



Offline Paul-R

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2869 on: March 11, 2015, 04:15:27 PM »

Force is ENERGY known as MECHANICAL ENERGY with the ABILITY TO DO WORK.
We have a language to share in order to communicate. It should be used properly.

Force x Distance moved = Work done.

Power = Work/Time.

If you check the units of force, work, energy and power, you will find this is so.

Offline ltseung888

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2870 on: March 11, 2015, 07:25:59 PM »
Hi Lawrence. I read through your reply 2826, and there are no explanations in there
about how a QMoGen works that I could see.  The QMoGens demos that I have seen in videos do not appear to
use unbalanced wheels or unbalanced cylinders. If some of these devices really are over unity then
it appears they are working on some other principle other than gravity use/unbalanced wheels or cylinders.
The William Skinner device did appear to use eccentric shafts and weights, so it may possibly
fit to your theories however.

Here's one example of a 'QMoGen' type device. This could well be a fake however, as you can't tell at all from a video
if such a device is genuine or not, but, at any rate, this particular device just appears to use a fly wheel, and
I think possibly a modified electric motor, as they mention using neodymium magnets in the motor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTLLnUOPOQk

All the best...

@Void,

Thank you for bringing out a very good point.  The best QMOGEN I know and keep stressing multiple times is the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.  It has the Unbalanced Cylinders.  The entire reply 2826 discussion is based with that QMOGEN in mind.

The William Skinner device is strictly Unbalanced Wheel using Centrifugal Force to lead-out gravitational energy.  It uses a 1/8 HP motor to drive the device to get greater power.

Many QMOGENs explicitly use Flywheels.  For the garage inventors, the chance of producing a slightly Unbalanced Flywheel is very high.  Dr. Raymond Ting replaced his flywheel with an explicit unbalanced flywheel.  (Bolting a hammer to a flywheel).  The resulting torque twisted the shaft.  The device shook so much that he had to stop the experiment.

The observation was clear - increased torque and increased energy.

The Chalkalis QMOGEN is clearly based on Unbalanced Wheel.  The Chas Campbell QMOGEN has loose belts and flywheel.

The Wang Wheel was deliberately designed to be unbalanced.  The Wang Wheel had 7 magnets. 

It is true that some QMOGENs such as the YMNEE does not have any explicit flywheel.  However, the Unbalancing might have been designed into their motor and generators. 

Some QMOGENs are actually "accidents" making replicating very difficult.  With slight unbalancing, the centrifugal force effect will show at higher rotational speeds.  That is the reason why many QMOGENs operate at high rotational speeds.  Their speeds can be greatly reduced if the unbalancing is deliberately built in such as the Wang wheel.

One other element is that - if gravitational energy can be lead-out, magnetic and electromagnetic energy must be able to be lead-out in a similar fashion.  I have not covered this particular aspect thoroughly yet.

The power of the lead-out energy theory is to improve the Milkovic 2SO totally.  It will improve almost all QMOGENs with Unbalanced Cylinders.  The non-overunity QEG will become overunity if an unbalanced cylinder were added. 

Divine wine flows....

Lawrence
see reply 2826

Offline MarkE

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2871 on: March 11, 2015, 07:56:34 PM »
That's another invalid assertion MarkE.

Force is ENERGY known as MECHANICAL ENERGY with the ABILITY TO DO WORK. Levers provide "Man", men the means of manipulating MECHANICAL ENERGY, at MECHANICAL ADVANTAGE. (in some cases, and even animals as well)
No, force is very distinct from energy.  Energy is the integral of force applied through the direction of motion.  One can have all the force in the world and as long as that force is normal to the direction of motion, or there is no motion, no work is exchanged.
Quote

You can't have it both ways MarkE since you already stated: "Foot pounds are units of ENERGY: 1 lb force applied through 1 ft distance." which describes a simple lever being acted upon by FORCE. (See:  Re: Flywheel devices « Reply #87 on: March 09, 2015, 07:52:35 AM » "Your key concepts are a confused mess.")
It is you who do not understand very basic physics.  Read the quote again: 
Quote
Quote
"Foot pounds are units of ENERGY: 1 lb force applied through 1 ft distance."
  See the word "through"?
Quote

Please fully explain your CON-flicting assertions.

Offline MarkE

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2872 on: March 11, 2015, 08:00:58 PM »
@Void,

Thank you for bringing out a very good point.  The best QMOGEN I know and keep stressing multiple times is the Tsinghua University Energy Multiplier.  It has the Unbalanced Cylinders.  The entire reply 2826 discussion is based with that QMOGEN in mind.

The William Skinner device is strictly Unbalanced Wheel using Centrifugal Force to lead-out gravitational energy.  It uses a 1/8 HP motor to drive the device to get greater power.

Many QMOGENs explicitly use Flywheels.  For the garage inventors, the chance of producing a slightly Unbalanced Flywheel is very high.  Dr. Raymond Ting replaced his flywheel with an explicit unbalanced flywheel.  (Bolting a hammer to a flywheel).  The resulting torque twisted the shaft.  The device shook so much that he had to stop the experiment.

The observation was clear - increased torque and increased energy.

The Chalkalis QMOGEN is clearly based on Unbalanced Wheel.  The Chas Campbell QMOGEN has loose belts and flywheel.

The Wang Wheel was deliberately designed to be unbalanced.  The Wang Wheel had 7 magnets. 

It is true that some QMOGENs such as the YMNEE does not have any explicit flywheel.  However, the Unbalancing might have been designed into their motor and generators. 

Some QMOGENs are actually "accidents" making replicating very difficult.  With slight unbalancing, the centrifugal force effect will show at higher rotational speeds.  That is the reason why many QMOGENs operate at high rotational speeds.  Their speeds can be greatly reduced if the unbalancing is deliberately built in such as the Wang wheel.

One other element is that - if gravitational energy can be lead-out, magnetic and electromagnetic energy must be able to be lead-out in a similar fashion.  I have not covered this particular aspect thoroughly yet.

The power of the lead-out energy theory is to improve the Milkovic 2SO totally.  It will improve almost all QMOGENs with Unbalanced Cylinders.  The non-overunity QEG will become overunity if an unbalanced cylinder were added. 

Divine wine flows....

Lawrence
see reply 2826
None of your cited devices perform net work in excess of the input.  None of them evolve net work from gravity cycle by cycle.  At this point you are slipping from foolishness into overt fraud.

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2873 on: March 12, 2015, 01:35:48 AM »
Before we get too far into negating a suggestion that the U.S. government would or would not "suppress" technology...

Allow me to remind the readers of the historical accounts of great inventors John Searl, and Howard Robert Johnson.
Both of these cases represent well documented government suppression, with witnesses to substantiate the claims of the inventors.
As well as exists military and government technological documents supporting those claims.

While Searl's tech is confusing to most and there have been no successful replications,
(suppression)

H.J. did a good job at delivering his magnetic principals to the world, and many advancements in the field of magnetics are the result.
(attempted suppression)


Offline sm0ky2

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2874 on: March 12, 2015, 01:43:38 AM »
@ltseung888      Lawrence

              You repeatedly reference the Milkovic device in attempt to support your theory.
This device has been thoroughly explained using the standard accepted physics of modern times, and has been experimentally proven to be operating under such described principals.

While, your intention to improve this device is admirable, as it would bring the technology closer to efficiency, which is our ultimate goal.
   The device, and the principals under which it operates need not be attempted to be explained by your Lead-Out theory of Energy.
As such device is not applicable.  I have studied your theory, and it seems evident that you do not understand it as well as you probably should, being its most devout promoter.
 Milkovic pump is NOT a Lead-Out device. It IS more efficient than our crude technology reminent of the 1800's that is still in use where these pumps are being employed, but the technology does not approach efficiency as of yet. There is no energy to be gained from that system.

Offline MarkE

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2875 on: March 12, 2015, 02:14:36 AM »
Before we get too far into negating a suggestion that the U.S. government would or would not "suppress" technology...

Allow me to remind the readers of the historical accounts of great inventors John Searl, and Howard Robert Johnson.
Both of these cases represent well documented government suppression, with witnesses to substantiate the claims of the inventors.
As well as exists military and government technological documents supporting those claims.

While Searl's tech is confusing to most and there have been no successful replications,
(suppression)
John Searl has never had any credible witnesses to his over the top claims.  His cooperation and assistance has failed to result in a demonstration of any of his: motor, energy, or anti-gravity claims.  It seems that John Searl must be his own greatest suppressor.
Quote

H.J. did a good job at delivering his magnetic principals to the world, and many advancements in the field of magnetics are the result.
(attempted suppression)
Except that none of HJ's magnet only motors ever completed even one full cycle.

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2876 on: March 12, 2015, 02:27:54 AM »
Mark, I would compel you to examine your history on both of those subjects.

In his younger days, Searl was testified for by college professors, neighbors, and the like. As well as old still-photographs of what appears to be a very large spaceship in his back yard. Witnesses claim that it flew away and was never seen again.
Then there is a mysterious period of unexplained incarceration in a federal prison, his lab raided by the feds and his materials confiscated.
this was vouched for by a couple of investors he had pay for the development of his proprietary materials.


Howard Johnson invented a high-powered magnetic motor that the military actually USED!! although access to this information requires a certain security clearance, it most certainly exists.


Offline MarkE

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2877 on: March 12, 2015, 02:45:07 AM »
Mark, I would compel you to examine your history on both of those subjects.

In his younger days, Searl was testified for by college professors, neighbors, and the like. As well as old still-photographs of what appears to be a very large spaceship in his back yard. Witnesses claim that it flew away and was never seen again.
Papp had a prop on his driveway that he claimed was a 300mph submarine.  A prop does not make a working unit.  Perhaps you could locate some of these witness statements? 
Quote

Then there is a mysterious period of unexplained incarceration in a federal prison, his lab raided by the feds and his materials confiscated.
this was vouched for by a couple of investors he had pay for the development of his proprietary materials.
He was arrested and imprisoned for stealing electricity.  After his release there were promises that he and his comrades would be able to put together a working SEG in about 6 months.  I think we are going on about 6 months and ten years now without any demonstration of anything out of the ordinary.
Quote


Howard Johnson invented a high-powered magnetic motor that the military actually USED!! although access to this information requires a certain security clearance, it most certainly exists.
So you are making a claim that you cannot produce evidence to support it?  But you insist the evidence that you cannot produce exists? 

Offline ltseung888

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2878 on: March 12, 2015, 04:01:38 AM »
For those who cannot follow Physics Discussions, I have broken down the physics into baby steps.

Lawrence
See reply 2826
« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 12:37:29 PM by ltseung888 »

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #2879 on: March 12, 2015, 04:04:52 AM »
So you are making a claim that you cannot produce evidence to support it?  But you insist the evidence that you cannot produce exists?
No sir Agent Smith, I am completely unaware of Mr. Jonson's Involvement, nor why the United States would emplore an out of work salesman with a spinning coffee-table, to build advance jet engines, no sir.

I have know knowledge his teachings, the technology or the potential uses, thereof........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6F9I5OiSTE