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Author Topic: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !  (Read 1426469 times)

Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #165 on: December 17, 2006, 08:10:50 PM »
@fantasyl

#1 Did you turn on air resistance/friction? probably not.
Go to the world menu and select air resistance.

#2 Where is your baseline pendulum? How do you know your moving pendulum hasn't lost energy without a stationary pendulum to compare it to?

Please completely read the posts!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline fantasyl

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #166 on: December 17, 2006, 11:26:59 PM »
@ Mingus

#1 Ouch....you are right.  :-\ What is the coefficient I should use for "real world" simulation.... 0.100?

#2 In fact I used another approach. I always start with the pendulum not oscillating. If the machine (not the one above.....I did many different attempts/projects) can increase the rate at which the pendulum and the whole polygon rotates on the fulcrum.....this machine would clearly OU. Is this approach also valid?

Now I'm trying to get the work to move the pendulum done by the hammer (as all here), but maybe we should look in depth (as you suggested) the two pendulums project, which should generate harmonics and resonances, could you post or at least suggest the 2 configuration in which the pendulums were violating the 2nd law?

Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #167 on: December 18, 2006, 01:07:46 AM »
I don't think you're understanding the 2 pendulum concept at all. One pendulum is attached to a lever like the patent states. The other pendulum is an exact duplicate of the first but hung stationary and not inertacting in any way with the experiment. The second pendulum has nothing to do with energy or harmonics or any of that theoretical garbage, its sole purpose is to allow you to compare which pendulum runs out of energy first first.

If the pendulum that interacts with nothing but air resistance stops before the pendulum which is also adding energy to the lever then clearly it has gained energy from somewhere and that violates the first law of thermodynamics or conservation of energy, I believe this because the energy added to the system is outweighted by the work returned by the system. You can clearly see this in my sim posts. The pendulum adding energy to the lever actually gains energy in comparison to the stationary pendulum.

Starting with a dead rest pendulum is an interesting concept but there is no energy to capture if it is indeed at a dead rest. The pendulum shouldn't move at all if the lever is balanced RIGHT?I would assume your lever balance is off, but there could be many factors leading to a falling pendulum gathering x velocity.

The DEFAULT air resistance is probably your best bet... Why would you even want to lower the resistance? Want to make your machines run longer or something? Whats the point in turning it on if you're going to lower its overall resistance by two thirds? I use high speed resistance or 0.300 kg/m^2 as it will allow for the most default resistance and makes the sim more realistic to earths air resistance as well. Lowering resistance and friction in your sims discredits us all so please be careful to make sure all sims are sent through a worse case senario when it comes to friction.

I can't save my work yet but the easiest way to under stand my 2 examples posted is to go look at them and attempt simuated replication...

~Dingus Mungus

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #167 on: December 18, 2006, 01:07:46 AM »
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Offline fantasyl

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #168 on: December 18, 2006, 02:56:35 AM »
Yes, I understood the 2nd pendulum was for comparison purposes only!

IMHO If you start trying to be close to the equilibrium as you can, and the pendulum (and polygon, the whole machine!!) increase it's oscillation rate in time, then you have OU.

I start with the with the lever NOT PERFECTLY balanced (as you said). I do this way because I found easier to look at small increment in oscillation rate of the machine.....

Please Mingus to capture my questions as they are.....simply questions! I didn't have the slightest idea of what was the "real world" value....that's all......
Now I putted it to .300 as you said.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #169 on: December 18, 2006, 12:38:04 PM »
Sorry the "maybe we should look in depth (as you suggested) the two pendulums project, which should generate harmonics and resonances" line confused me. I had a lot of trouble expessing its purpose and what it measured. So I apoligise if my response was short.

A sugestion: a lever imbalance (in length) can be compensated with added weight (thickness) then you can balance your lever. This is important unless you find a way to make an energy comparison. A duplicate lever in the same starting position could work much in the same way as a dupe pendulum. Try it out if you get a chance but I think you'll find comparing the overall energy output for each lever will be quite difficult since only one lever would operate as a pendulum and the other as a restricted oscilator.

Good luck on your experiments and thanks for your interst in this project.
 ;)

~Dingus Mungus

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #169 on: December 18, 2006, 12:38:04 PM »
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Offline Alfang

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #170 on: December 19, 2006, 05:53:24 AM »
Fantasy, I am with you, I am new to the WM2D program, and although I have set air resistances, gravity, friction, I really dont know what the real world values shoud be.
I dont know if I can set the program defaults to real world, so that each time i start a new project , everything is on that should be and values set.
Or, can someone set up and post a WM2D blank with the correct real world values set, so we can save that as a starting page template. dont forget to save as is under another name so as not to lose your Blank template.

Next question,,, I have found This pendulem machine dificult to ballance.
I will figure it out,,,, but if someone already knows the ideal ratio of weights, lengths, fulcrum points etc....please share the formula, I expect theres one ideal formula and that all scale ups or downs will be directly proportional, I hope.

Heres another thing for those that dont know.  a pendulem at a certain weight will travel the same distance per minute reguardless of the length of the pedulem. I'm gonna make up some numbers for explaination purposes.  lets say a 10 pound weight is suspended 12 inches down and is swung, if you could measure the total distance that the weight travels in 1 minutes time.
It would equall the distance traveled by the same weight if it had been hung on a 2 foot pendulem. I cant quote you the scientist who discovered this, probably newton.

And to be honest, this info doesnt do anything for me, except when someone says that their system works so well the pedulem picks up speed, That will NEVER  Happen in a pendulem powered anything. Why do you think they make clocks with them, once the length of the pendulem is determined, the clock keeps perfect time. at least 19th century perfect.

Offline supersam

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #171 on: December 19, 2006, 06:13:05 AM »
well,

maybe, you will want to discover, what   is availeble?  i know as dingus say's i need to make, my own experiments'.  i will!!!!!

lol
sam

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #171 on: December 19, 2006, 06:13:05 AM »
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Offline fantasyl

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #172 on: December 20, 2006, 11:11:54 PM »
Ok, I set the friction to 0.300 (high speed), and doing my own experiment I tried this setup (which I named TRIPENDULUM  ;D ).

It's indeed a "non linear" motion (you find the speed of the ropes, they sure are NOT decelerating), and the machine in the simulation NEVER stops. After about 30 minutes the program gives an internal error (the same in a dingus post before), but the machine would keep going ;D .

I'm going to realize it for sure, but hope someone could give some advice on why this device should / should not work.

IMHO it's a good idea. In the attach you see two box with springs, not connected with the machine. You can extract energy from the device in multiple ways. First idea came to mind is springs connected to magnets, when the machine is "overloading".

Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #173 on: December 20, 2006, 11:57:04 PM »
Ok, I set the friction to 0.300 (high speed), and doing my own experiment I tried this setup (which I named TRIPENDULUM  ;D ).

It's indeed a "non linear" motion (you find the speed of the ropes, they sure are NOT decelerating), and the machine in the simulation NEVER stops. After about 30 minutes the program gives an internal error (the same in a dingus post before), but the machine would keep going ;D .

I'm going to realize it for sure, but hope someone could give some advice on why this device should / should not work.

IMHO it's a good idea. In the attach you see two box with springs, not connected with the machine. You can extract energy from the device in multiple ways. First idea came to mind is springs connected to magnets, when the machine is "overloading".


need more details

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #173 on: December 20, 2006, 11:57:04 PM »
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Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #174 on: December 21, 2006, 12:10:12 AM »
The velocity measured definitetely shows the system has great trouble finding a point of equilibrium which is exactly what this system is dependent on. Basically the non linear inbalance creates a sort of improbability drive. What I mean is the probality of every component being in the propper alignment to find the equilibrium zone is such a low probability that the device is powered by chaos in a sense.

My only critique is you are not extracting any power from the system with dampeners, and you have no way of proving that your arangement is putting out more kinetic energy the what you put in to the pendulums.

Also what is the pursose of the ancored blocks attached to springs?

Quite an interesting and perplexing new example, and if indeed the pendulums are picking up velocity despite resistance this example may prove to be a big step in the right direction.

Great work and I look forward to hearing more about your tripendulum experiments.
~Dingus

Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #175 on: December 21, 2006, 05:47:32 AM »
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Offline fantasyl

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #176 on: December 21, 2006, 09:05:04 AM »
Perpetual Motion Pendulum
http://www.supyo.com/home/artworks/saic/perpertual_pendulum/pendulum.htm

Ehm.......but it's electricity driven  :'( ; became interesting if the energy for the solenoid could be supplied from a milkovic setup (hammer).

What other details should I write?

The setup is soooooooo simple!! I will try to realize it.......but if someone is faster please confirm or deny the simulation data, and everyone we'll have some free energy soon  ;D

Please keep in mind that the weight of the 2 pendulum vs the lever weight (and the rope lenght) is really important to achieve the non linear oscillations.

Offline fantasyl

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #177 on: December 21, 2006, 09:05:16 AM »
Double post....sorry, but was receing the DB error.....ARRGGHH  ::)

Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #178 on: December 21, 2006, 09:19:31 AM »
Ehm.......but it's electricity driven  Cry ; became interesting if the energy for the solenoid could be supplied from a milkovic setup (hammer).

that is what i meant ;)

Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #179 on: December 21, 2006, 09:20:16 AM »
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