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Author Topic: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.  (Read 6361 times)

Offline tinman

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Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #45 on: February 25, 2018, 07:06:28 AM »
That link doesnt work for me. Id like to see what they had to say or show but it doesnt apear to work.

Mags

Mmm,try this one

https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/Counter-electromotive_force.html

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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #46 on: February 25, 2018, 12:00:44 PM »
All 3 forces are beyond current human understanding.
There is no “definition”
All we can do is describe the little we think we know about them.


One does not exist without the other 2
As they are all part of the same thing.


What is “field”?


Intangible, unseen
All we can do is speculate, experiment, and describe our experiences
The “what is” lies beyond our reach

Offline dieter

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Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #47 on: February 25, 2018, 02:28:49 PM »
Glad to see you guys are discussing something here. Unfortunately not the actual core feature of the thing I was talking about.


Which is very simple, not much speculation of the philosophy and true nature of time space within the field of electrics.


Simple things like what that profesdor told me: current will always flow from a high potential to a low potential.


I considerbit a waste of livetime to question this. So, with a scopeshot of an inductive Kickback (as you prefer) in front of you, a clearly visible negative Spike, how can you even have such a discussion.


I said that already, you may have ignored or lalalalala-ed it, but here again:


During the forward pulse the coil's polarity is in series with the supply. The inductive kickback reverses polarity. Now it depends on the Voltage of the inductive kickback that finally decides whether the current will flow back to the supply. It can only flow back if the voltage is higher than the supply.


Because current flows from a hi to a lo potential /voltage.


This is for people who are really interested in the subject matter. Just ignore the offtopic flood.


Yeah, so how about them loads in the back path? The lower their resistance, the more efficient the recovery of the pulse?


We probably just opened a whole new pandora box thing here, from a oil-slaves point of view: What if we just charge one Battery with an other battery. Of course, one must have a higher voltage for that. Bit hey... if we put a load between them - wouldn't it again hold true: the lower the resistance of the load, the more unaffected the battery charging. Or do you think the electrons will jump off the wire somehow? If they would, the battery couldn't be uncharged, because what goes out at one pole must come in at the other pole.


So how do you like them apples. ;)


So how about that.

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Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #47 on: February 25, 2018, 02:28:49 PM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #48 on: February 25, 2018, 11:31:30 PM »
Glad to see you guys are discussing something here. Unfortunately not the actual core feature of the thing I was talking about.


Which is very simple, not much speculation of the philosophy and true nature of time space within the field of electrics.


Simple things like what that profesdor told me: current will always flow from a high potential to a low potential.


I considerbit a waste of livetime to question this. So, with a scopeshot of an inductive Kickback (as you prefer) in front of you, a clearly visible negative Spike, how can you even have such a discussion.


I said that already, you may have ignored or lalalalala-ed it, but here again:


During the forward pulse the coil's polarity is in series with the supply. The inductive kickback reverses polarity. Now it depends on the Voltage of the inductive kickback that finally decides whether the current will flow back to the supply. It can only flow back if the voltage is higher than the supply.


Because current flows from a hi to a lo potential /voltage.


This is for people who are really interested in the subject matter. Just ignore the offtopic flood.


Yeah, so how about them loads in the back path? The lower their resistance, the more efficient the recovery of the pulse?


We probably just opened a whole new pandora box thing here, from a oil-slaves point of view: What if we just charge one Battery with an other battery. Of course, one must have a higher voltage for that. Bit hey... if we put a load between them - wouldn't it again hold true: the lower the resistance of the load, the more unaffected the battery charging. Or do you think the electrons will jump off the wire somehow? If they would, the battery couldn't be uncharged, because what goes out at one pole must come in at the other pole.


So how do you like them apples. ;)


So how about that.


You are only looking at the apples from the outside. Your apples not good once you look inside.

"During the forward pulse the coil's polarity is in series with the supply. The inductive kickback reverses polarity. Now it depends on the Voltage of the inductive kickback that finally decides whether the current will flow back to the supply. It can only flow back if the voltage is higher than the supply.

Because current flows from a hi to a lo potential /voltage."


Of course the polarity changes across the coil when the input is taken away.  Because the coil is now the source! 

When the + of the input is connected to (A) side of the coil and the - to the (B) side of the coil, a scope will show (A) as being + and (B) as being - !!!!!  Now look at the loop of the batt and coil.  When the input is disconnected and the coil polarity shows on the scope to reverse, which way would current flow if the initial input connections became a load for the coils output when the input is disconnected?? ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)   Like a snubber diode, of which Circuit Sim will show you the way. Simple simple simple.

You need to dig deeper into understanding this stuff.  I highly recommend you download Falstads Circuit Sim applet.  It is correct just like all other sims when it comes to this stuff. You can use the sims scope to see the polarities and the sim shows currents flowing through the wires and components.  And you can take all that and do the same on the bench using a scope to monitor the polarities and have resistors to monitor current directions. 

I was in the same shoes you are wearing right now about 10 yrs ago.  Even what Im showing you here now, you still may not get it for some time, as the same for me. But keep at it. You will get it.

If you dont want to try Circuit Sim then maybe I can do a vid of what Im saying.  Have to see if the camera will show the monitor clearly.

Mags

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #49 on: February 26, 2018, 12:21:12 AM »
@erfinder


Let me know when you get published
So I can nominate you for the Nobel Prize

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #49 on: February 26, 2018, 12:21:12 AM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #50 on: February 26, 2018, 12:29:51 AM »


Simple things like what that profesdor told me: current will always flow from a high potential to a low potential.



This is true in a broad sense
But as it pertains to back-emf, you have to take the whole situation into perspective
Where is your potential?


Faraday’s law of induction states that the reverse emf is of Opposite polarity to
the change in current.
This means the current is in the Same direction as the inducing field
And the voltage is of Opposite Polarity.


The current does not reverse directions!




Offline tomd

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Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #51 on: February 26, 2018, 02:37:20 AM »
I think allaboutcircuits offers a good explanation.

I find the thing you have to keep in mind is that the coil is the source when the magnetic field is collapsing and in order for the current to not change direction the voltage across the coil must change polarity.

https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/semiconductors/chpt-3/inductor-commutating-circuits/

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #51 on: February 26, 2018, 02:37:20 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #52 on: February 26, 2018, 03:54:05 AM »
I think allaboutcircuits offers a good explanation.

I find the thing you have to keep in mind is that the coil is the source when the magnetic field is collapsing and in order for the current to not change direction the voltage across the coil must change polarity.

https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/semiconductors/chpt-3/inductor-commutating-circuits/

Pretty much what I just said in my last post..  Also some books on switching power supplies are a great reference also.

Mags

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #53 on: February 27, 2018, 08:50:54 AM »

I expect you'll bend the knee and kiss the ring if I am awarded?


more likely that I will just assimilate your enlightened knowledge

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Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #53 on: February 27, 2018, 08:50:54 AM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #54 on: February 27, 2018, 08:59:49 AM »
Sometimes it’s just a matter of perspective
or rather putting things in their proper perspective


Like, for instance a battery
You have a potential, and it is capable of producing some current
it has an internal resistance, which prevents the (+) from just
going through itself to the (-).
So when we connect it to our coil, the current runs through the coil
around to the battery’s (-).


Now we have a coil, (let’s assume we just switched it off)
It has a collapsing magnetic field, which induces a potential
This is parallel to the source now (opposite polarity)
Our coil has very little internal resistance
So the current runs through the coil from its (+)
to its (-).


In both cases, the current runs through the coil in the same direction.
The current takes the path of least resistance.
Which is through the coil.


Offline Belfior

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Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #55 on: February 27, 2018, 11:39:08 AM »
so if the coil goes through a ferrite core and I cut the power, then a spike will go through the coil, affect the core and I can collect the bonus from the other side?

static charge is just voltage? What if I charge a cap with a static charge and then run it to a coil. Then cut the power. Will the back-EMF in the coil develop a magnetic field and create current?


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Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #55 on: February 27, 2018, 11:39:08 AM »
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