GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics

  • *Total Members: 82512
  • *Latest: hhoready

  • *Total Posts: 497797
  • *Total Topics: 14734
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 1
  • *Guests: 20
  • *Total: 21

Author Topic: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.  (Read 6290 times)

Offline dieter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 938
Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« on: February 19, 2018, 02:06:28 AM »

Hi everybody, it has been a while since I last wrote something on this Forum.


But of course I was still thinking about ways to Free Energy. At some point I was realizing that there is a tremendous  contradiction, a very irritating fact about the Back-EMF. I was also surprised that seemingly noone ever wrote or spoke about it, at least not that I've heared of.




So, what is it then? Well, glad you ask...


Back-EMF Manifesto


By Dieter Marfurt.


Any electrician and many people in general know, that a device that consumes a high wattage has a low electrical resistance. It is one of those fundamentals:


The lower the resistance of the load, the more energy "consumed". And the higher the resistance, the less energy it will "consume".



Actually, this is just the amount of current the device does let flow trough itself to the Minus pole of the supply.


Now Imagine a coil that has a big Back-EMF spike. You pulse it with a pulse-lenght that is just enough to "load" or saturate the coil. This way most of the energy that went into the coil as pulses, will flow back to the supply. No matter how many Amps are bouncing back and forth here, power consumption will be near zero, very comparable to a transformer with no load attached to the secondary. (Assuming our supply is able to utilize the Back-EMF, of course, by caps, or a chargable battery etc.)




So basicly, we are using the voltage of the supply to lure the current into the magnetic field of the coil. We do not allow the current to reach the negative pole of the supply. At least most of it won't reach it.


And yet, we have a pulsed high power cirquit here, indeed current flow.


Now here's the deal:


If we attach a Load between the coil and the supply positive side so that it shall be energized by our cirquit, then the following becomes true:


The higher the resistance of the load, the more Energy will be "consumed".
And the lower the resistance of the load, the less energy is "consumed".



This is, because with a low resistance of the load, more of the Back-EMF will finally reach back to the power supply or battery.


So, theoreticly, two heaters in parallel will consume less energy than only one.




There is a reason why we have seen so many "Anomalies" with Back-EMFs involved.


So there it is,the key in plain sight.


Furthermore, instead of a power supply, an other coil could be used as the "supply", this would reduce losses by battery/cap charging/uncharging greatly (lead acid batteries lose half of the energy in that cycle, just like caps, most other batteries are even worse). A coil could be an interesting energy storage device, efficiency-wise.


I hope these of my thoughts are useful for any good folks out there and I wish you a pleasent journey.


Dieter




Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline forest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3696
Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2018, 10:06:39 AM »
Quote
If we attach a Load between the coil and the supply positive side so that it shall be energized by our cirquit, then the following becomes true:[/size]The higher the resistance of the load, the more Energy will be "consumed".
And the lower the resistance of the load, the less energy is "consumed".
This is, because with a low resistance of the load, more of the Back-EMF will finally reach back to the power supply or battery.


Please draw schematic, because if you place load along the coil in series connection then it is the same as ordinary one, I think you mean : place load at the back-emf spike path ?

Offline dieter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 938
Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2018, 10:43:20 AM »
Hi Forest.


Of course, the load sits in a separated back EMF path. Even tho, it may also work in the forward path if the load is not inductive, not capacitive and pf extremly low resistance. But, yes, it's better in the back path, so the coil can load unhindered..


Thanks for reading btw.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2018, 10:43:20 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline ariovaldo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 380
Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2018, 01:28:09 PM »
Someone wanna try?


10.5"diameter


Old medium voltage CT core.

Offline dieter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 938
Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2018, 05:19:25 PM »
Now, that really is some inductance...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2018, 05:19:25 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline sm0ky2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2999
Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2018, 10:00:22 PM »

the time constant is an issue....how will you circumvent it?


3Mv electric-field, pulsed at 925Hz
phaseshifted by variable inductance
to dialate local time-space around the machine.



Offline tomd

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2018, 10:23:16 PM »

Please draw schematic, because if you place load along the coil in series connection then it is the same as ordinary one, I think you mean : place load at the back-emf spike path ?

Where is the "back-emf spike path"? Do you mean parallel to the coil?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2018, 10:23:16 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13711
Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2018, 02:17:51 AM »
Didn't anyone notice this howler?

Quote
So, theoreticly, two heaters in parallel will consume less energy than only one.

But of course we know that this isn't true at all, and conventional electrical theory conforms with the results of experiments in this matter (agrees with past and correctly predicts future experimental results).

So there is something terribly wrong with your "theory".

Offline dieter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 938
Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2018, 02:48:41 AM »
Didn't anyone notice this howler?But of course we know that this isn't true at all, and conventional electrical theory conforms with the results of experiments in this matter (agrees with past and correctly predicts future experimental results). So there is something terribly wrong with your "theory".
[/font]Something? Something. Funny.But I am not here to talk to little minds nor to play with puppies..Great minds may read my words and understand, silently.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2018, 02:48:41 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline dieter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 938
Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2018, 02:58:53 AM »
Where is the "back-emf spike path"? Do you mean parallel to the coil?
When the Pulse ends, the current reverses direction. The Voltage is higher in the coil than in the power supply, therefor that is a potential diffrence, the coil charges the supply for a brief moment.
You can use Diodes to make this reverse current flow over a diffrent path. Sometimes called Flyback Diode.

Offline dieter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 938
Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2018, 03:15:22 AM »
As far as I see, this has been confirmed to some degree eg. by Gotoluc and Woopyjump, even tho they did not draw this fundamental conclusion.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2018, 03:15:22 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline Magluvin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5738
Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2018, 04:31:01 AM »
When the Pulse ends, the current reverses direction. The Voltage is higher in the coil than in the power supply, therefor that is a potential diffrence, the coil charges the supply for a brief moment.
You can use Diodes to make this reverse current flow over a diffrent path. Sometimes called Flyback Diode.

When the pulse ends, the current from the coil afterwards is in the same direction as it was during the pulse.

When the pulse current is applied, the field of the coil is building outwards, and that field cuts the windings of the coil causing a reverse influence of the input current, CEMF, which causes the delay in the coil to reach max current from the input. The higher the inductance, the longer it takes to get to max current/max field. Now when the pulse current is taken away, that field that was built collapses inward of the coil, opposite to when it was building. So now the collapsing field is cutting the windings inward causing the current in the coil to be in the same direction as was the input pulse.

I had thought the same as you back some years ago. But no, the current developed in the coil after the pulse is taken away IS in the same direction as was the input currents. The 'back emf' statements can confuse us into thinking as you are, as did it me, back then.

Mags

Offline tinman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5008
Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2018, 11:49:46 AM »
 author=dieter link=topic=17611.msg516959#msg516959 date=1519264733]
 

Quote
When the Pulse ends, the current reverses direction.

Wrong.
The current continues to flow in the same direction through the coil during the inductive kickback part of the cycle/when the source current is disconnected..

Only the voltage inverts across the coil when the source is disconnected.

Quote
the coil charges the supply for a brief moment.

No it dose not,as the current flow will be in the wrong direction through the coil,when the coil is disconnected from the current source.

Quote
You can use Diodes to make this reverse current flow over a different path.

There is no reverse current.


Brad.

Offline dieter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 938
Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2018, 12:00:34 PM »
Hi Mags,


As much as I appreciate an opinion that is against accepted beliefs, here you arr definitely wrong.


Just add two diodes at the positive supply side of your coil, one into the coil, and one out of the coil. In the path from out of the coil to the positive Supply (don't say I have to explain Diodes) you add an LED, with positive/long pin tobthr diode side.


If your statement were true, the LED may not be lit, never. But it is.


That's all I can say about that and maybe, this, verified by myself and many others (that back emf current flows backwards) us if such a basic knowledge level, that I normally don't feel obliged to explain it. Especially since I just mentioned the potential diffrence. An understanding of the concept of potential diffrence is assumed, as it fits in one sentense: Current flows from high to low potential.


Do the experiment again. Note: there is also a feature of current inertia, meaning flowing current wants to keep on flowing ( and can therefor even arc between contacts if disconnected). This may not be confused with Back-EMF from a collapsing magnetic field. If your test coil has low back EMF features, you may have mixed up the two effects.

Offline tinman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5008
Re: Back-EMF Manifesto - A Key, hidden in plain Sight.
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2018, 12:10:28 PM »
 author=Magluvin link=topic=17611.msg516966#msg516966 date=1519270261]


Quote
When the pulse current is applied, the field of the coil is building outwards, and that field cuts the windings of the coil causing a reverse influence of the input current, CEMF, which causes the delay in the coil to reach max current from the input.

What is the reverse influence Mags?

Quote
The higher the inductance, the longer it takes to get to max current/max field. Now when the pulse current is taken away, that field that was built collapses inward of the coil, opposite to when it was building. So now the collapsing field is cutting the windings inward causing the current in the coil to be in the same direction as was the input pulse.

Are you sure it's a magnetic field?

If we take a toroid core inductor for example-->is not the magnetic field contained within the core?
If so,then what field is collapsing inward around the wire ?

Quote
The 'back emf' statements can confuse us into thinking as you are, as did it me, back then.

EMF is measured in volts--has nothing to do with current.

Brad

 

OneLink