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Solid States Devices => Free Energy Generator DZ Generator by Pierre Cotnoir => Topic started by: e2matrix on February 17, 2018, 07:03:05 PM

Title: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: e2matrix on February 17, 2018, 07:03:05 PM
Two videos of a very impressive build that is Arduino controlled.  72 relays, 36 transistors, custom made transformer and coil and a ton of wiring.   IMO this is not the kind of Youtube someone makes just to get hits and it looks like he really has a looped setup.  He unplugs the main input from the wall and plugs it into the output.  Other than the little 5 volt wall adapter and 12 volt adapter for the Arduino and electronics it is looped and it is shown powering a 1600 watt microwave where he heats up a cup of water with temperature readings of the water before and after heating - all the while only consuming about 170 watts from the output of the big coil which is looped and feeding the input to the system.   Digital meters show inputs and outputs.  I'm fairly certain he could be running the two adapters for the electronics off his output also.   He could have them running off a battery / inverter combo and then have a charger on the battery for the inverter making it a completely self running system without any outside power input after it is started.   Very nice videos - no shaky vids here  ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7BZeeJmvjY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtDgpRV5fXs

I don't believe there is anything fake going on with this build but if you see something please comment.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Temporal Visitor on February 17, 2018, 10:24:38 PM
Hi e2matrix,

He does have something there with that simplistic little flywheel setup. What he has is nature on his side and the kinetic energy that anyone of us can and does GENERATE each and every time we move, or move anything else on this world.

His latest setup makes sense to me, and when someone steps forward to help him eliminate the weak links (relays) and clean it up to a few plug in circuit board modules with sockets for components and plug in wiring harness connectors it will be a lot less intimidating to others.

It will always cost plenty to build because anything real uses real parts that not everyone can build.

Nice find and his cat video is fine too.

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gsmsslsb on February 19, 2018, 08:45:06 PM

I would like to contact Pierre Cotnoir the poster of the movie.
Anyone here from Quebec I think that's where he is?
Or anyone have some contact for him??
let me know if possible.
I would like to have a chat with him about his stuff. :) :)
Thanks gsm
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: hartiberlin on February 19, 2018, 10:03:05 PM
I think this circuit could work... Also no hidden wires to see in the video...

 I guess the current is generated in the pickup coil without the usual lenz dragging effect because there is no moving rotor - the rotating magnetic field makes this possible.

 In a normal generator we have a moving rotor that is generating CounterEMF.

Here we don´t have this and if the energized  coil switches off, we have probably multiple pickup coils that can pickup the BackEMF and charge back up the supercaps from it.

So we have to differentiate between CounterEMF and BackEMF here in this machine !

So this is definately a Lenz law circumvention device. Well done Pierre !
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: memoryman on February 19, 2018, 11:32:58 PM
"I think this circuit could work... Also no hidden wires to see in the video..." well, if you could see HIDDEN wires, they would not be well hidden, would they?
Note that this is NOT self-looped, as there it requires external supplies; it should be easy to make it true self-looped, but that has NOT be done.
Another fail...
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: e2matrix on February 20, 2018, 07:31:44 AM
"I think this circuit could work... Also no hidden wires to see in the video..." well, if you could see HIDDEN wires, they would not be well hidden, would they?
Note that this is NOT self-looped, as there it requires external supplies; it should be easy to make it true self-looped, but that has NOT be done.
Another fail...


He loops the main power being used.   The two small power supplies for the electronics consume very little compared to the microwave oven.   I mentioned to him that it would be nice if he could do exactly that - include the power supplies for the Arduino and electronics in the system (a number of ways to do that) and I would hope he will do so if he really wants to really knock the ball out of the park.   ;)
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: RoliK on February 20, 2018, 11:22:15 AM
The powersupplies are 5V 2A and 12V 4.16A, so in total max. 60watts.
this has nothing to do, to power a microwave oven.

if it is a scam, he must install a cable behind the output coil.
And it seems he did this - watch between 7:00-7:30 min, when he install the coil.
After the coil is in the motor frame at 7:23 there is a video cut!
Voltagemeter behind goes from 22 to 24V....

During the cut he has time to install the cable behind :-(

The question is:
why someone spend so much time to make such a setup, only for some youtube clicks?
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Acca on February 20, 2018, 01:18:12 PM
 Here is the Lemanski motor that uses back EMF to run. Like a dog running after it’s tail..

IT'S The Russian Federation discovery and made possible by people donations.. made with Russian hands all of IT !!

December 2014  and it was a real deal … You Americans still believe in fantasy of  Santa too.. get real..

глобальный волновой леманский двигатель
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYYynctrQog (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYYynctrQog)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEeCAS_IEiU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEeCAS_IEiU)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0INcKoGjFA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0INcKoGjFA)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyh3ztkycK0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyh3ztkycK0)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdldGAYJGKM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdldGAYJGKM)
 
ps… this project was all documented with hundreds of hours of video over a year...
How they say in America to us: You are a "GREAT POWER"...with very smart engineers..  Thanks !!!
Acca..
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: hartiberlin on February 20, 2018, 08:55:52 PM
The powersupplies are 5V 2A and 12V 4.16A, so in total max. 60watts.
this has nothing to do, to power a microwave oven.

if it is a scam, he must install a cable behind the output coil.
And it seems he did this - watch between 7:00-7:30 min, when he install the coil.
After the coil is in the motor frame at 7:23 there is a video cut!
Voltagemeter behind goes from 22 to 24V....

During the cut he has time to install the cable behind :-(


Well, he still moves the motor core several times also during installation of the Microwave and
it does not seem to have additional cables from the backside...

Quote
The question is:
why someone spend so much time to make such a setup, only for some youtube clicks?

Yes, maybe he wants to have 5 Million views on Youtube or more maybe only for the ad revenue, if it is really a fake ??
But who knows... Let´s just wait for his next video about it, where he promised to show total selfrunning of this thing....

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ariovaldo on February 20, 2018, 10:12:33 PM
About the Russian generator, any similarity is just a coincidence.




Ariovaldo

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: justawatt on February 21, 2018, 04:54:17 PM
In the video he is showing the electronics and relay circuit is to produce a rotating magnetic field.

If so we can replication this setup with a 3 phase induction motor with VFD to control rotating magnetic field.

And just remove the rotor and replace with his 2 pair 20AWG coil wire on a solid block of metal with outlet to take power.

Then this is the setup if it works ,no need for complicated circuits.

Reference of rotating magnetic field in 3 phase motor
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ariovaldo on February 21, 2018, 05:02:17 PM
In the video he is showing the electronics and relay circuit is to produce a rotating magnetic field.

If so we can replication this setup with a 3 phase induction motor with VFD to control rotating magnetic field.

And just remove the rotor and replace with his 2 pair 20AWG coil wire on a solid block of metal with outlet to take power.

Then this is the setup if it works ,no need for complicated circuits.

Reference of rotating magnetic field in 3 phase motor


I agree that we can simulate that.  I was just think about that last night. will try!
Just two points to take in consideration:
1) If we connect the VFD straight to the motor stator without the rotor, we can fry the motor, unless we set the vfd in v/f and start with low frequency.
2) It looks like he is recovering some "juice" using a second winding in the same stator slot. So in this case we need pulsed dc.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: justawatt on February 21, 2018, 05:49:26 PM

I agree that we can simulate that.  I was just think about that last night. will try!
Just two points to take in consideration:
1) If we connect the VFD straight to the motor stator without the rotor, we can fry the motor, unless we set the vfd in v/f and start with low frequency.
2) It looks like he is recovering some "juice" using a second winding in the same stator slot. So in this case we need pulsed dc.

yes i knw , thats why he has used 24volt dc .
if we modify the vfd to work in safe zone then it will be possible.

Any one here with induction motor and vfd drive knowledge  ,please contribute.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ariovaldo on February 21, 2018, 05:52:35 PM
yes i knw , thats why he has used 24volt dc .
if we modify the vfd to work in safe zone then it will be possible.

Any one here with induction motor and vfd drive knowledge  ,please contribute.


Yeap. That is my field.
Next week I will test that.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Acca on February 21, 2018, 06:04:24 PM
Ari how are you going to eliminate the back EMF ?  This is where the relays switch to capture the downward collapse of the magnetic opposing the field .


Acca..

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ariovaldo on February 21, 2018, 06:44:17 PM
Ari how are you going to eliminate the back EMF ?  This is where the relays switch to capture the downward collapse of the magnetic opposing the field .


Acca..


For now, I will test taking in consideration the BEMF. I will test the rotating magnetic field in the motor stator and it effects in a inner coil.
Lets to see.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Thaelin on February 25, 2018, 04:56:48 AM
Sadly I have to call foul here. I have the d/l mp4 and noticed at 7 minutes on there are two glitches. Watch the voltage on the super cap bank.  From 21.2 to 22 then to 24. So is not one continuous take but 3 pieces together. Not sure that means anything at all but in this game, well you all know.

The schematic shows 36 transformers and  two diodes to each. One is in shorting mode and so cannot recover any bemf at all. So what is he really sending back to the big hot resistor.  OH WELL

thay.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Jeg on February 25, 2018, 02:23:59 PM
The schematic shows 36 transformers and  two diodes to each. One is in shorting mode and so cannot recover any bemf at all. So what is he really sending back to the big hot resistor.  OH WELL

thay.

Hi Thaelin
If you are referring to the schematic on page 1, then this is just a speculation of the possible schematic by the member x_name41. Doesn't mean that it's the real one. ;)
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: smoky on February 26, 2018, 05:46:33 AM
#Orialdo
Start with a high frequency not a low frequency if you don't want to fry your stator coils!
Low freq= low reactance and with rotor removed even less inductance possible in stator coils.
Gerry
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: profitis on February 28, 2018, 11:21:57 AM
"About the Russian generator, any similarity is just
a coincidence"                                this with the russi device would be the bomb dude
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on February 28, 2018, 12:28:57 PM
Hi
Similarities? : https://www.google.com/patents/US20020125774
N.B. several OUTput coils in this patent.
My personal reflection: severel output coils needed.

Regards / Arne
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on February 28, 2018, 01:10:56 PM
More reflections : FIGUERA pos A) "Vandering Magnetic Fields possible"

http://www.energeticforum.com/307838-post2691.html

Regards / Arne
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: hartiberlin on February 28, 2018, 06:22:33 PM
Hi
Similarities? : https://www.google.com/patents/US20020125774 (https://www.google.com/patents/US20020125774)
N.B. several OUTput coils in this patent.
My personal reflection: severel output coils needed.

Regards / Arne

Hmm, seems to be only something like a solid state 3 phase transformer basically, so
why should it go overunity ?
when you draw current from the output coils, the MMF will drag back onto the input coils and requires more input power, or am I wrong ?
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: hartiberlin on February 28, 2018, 06:32:49 PM
By the way, Pierre Cotnoire uploaded today again the 2 videos with better visible subtitles here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWgA8nUcNPo
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Me8rZKr9-a0&t
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ramset on February 28, 2018, 06:44:17 PM
Stefan
I read he was In Quebec? [could be wrong

you have friends in Canada [members here willing to help], perhaps he would like help qualifying the claim ?

some measurement analysis ?

at no cost to him.

?

respectfully
Chet K
PS
sorry if am a wrong about the location [Canada]? but it hardly matters where these days ...you have members willing to help Open source inventors Globally [even Black box measurements would be acceptable ??
and there could also be compensation to inventors who open source their work.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: memoryman on February 28, 2018, 08:05:39 PM
Many 'red flags'. For example, little digital volt/amp displays can easily be modified to give different readings, as well as being possibly very inaccurate on (especially) AC.
In all, a very complex build with no real 'proof'.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on February 28, 2018, 08:18:20 PM
Just some evil words;
 Everytime I hear that type of background music on YouTube together with film showing some (suspect) free energy experiment  something  bogus is going on.  8) 8) 8)
If I had succeeded with an OU experiment and I wanted to show that on YouTube I would never ever add background music to that.  :'(

A quote from the patent https://www.google.com/patents/US20020125774:
"But the Continuous Electrical Generator is autonomous and does not depend on any other source of energy but itself once it is running; may be carried anywhere with no limitations; it can be constructed in any size and provides any amount of electricity indefinitely, according to the design."

Regards / Arne
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ariovaldo on February 28, 2018, 08:45:42 PM
I tried to use a VFD, but the one that I have is too small and that was not possible, so I used a 3 Phase motor ( RATED FOR 460 AC VOLTS) and I connected it to a 110 ac volts, with a capacitor, simulating the RotoVerter conception.
The core also was just a 3/8" flat bar. I will try to find or build a laminated.
No pulsing, no recovering, nothing. Just a simple test.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6oAZi8Cc5I


Ariovaldo
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: hartiberlin on February 28, 2018, 09:44:23 PM
Okay, we had in a German Facebook group someone claim, that he is using the 12 Volts from the arduino going to power the supercaps this way via a small red wire
from the Arduino board to the Supercaps, but in my opinion that is a wrong claim, as this cable only goes to the 5 Volt supply and only connects also to the
5 Volt Voltmeter at right upper LED display.... Here is the in my opinion wrong claim picture:
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: hartiberlin on February 28, 2018, 09:45:35 PM
This  cable goes only to the 5 Volts supply as the Relay boards are these ones:

http://amzn.to/2owc2EC (http://amzn.to/2owc2EC)
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: hartiberlin on February 28, 2018, 09:50:58 PM
These 8 piece module relay boards are only powered by 5 Volts
http://amzn.to/2owc2EC

The only 25 Volts cable that goes to the 72 diodes boards and from there to the stator coils
is this one, see attached picture.
The supercap Pluspole for the 25 Volts storage of the Supercap energy is the last lower left side,
this big red cable.
It meets the smaller red cable that goes to the 72 diode board at the left shunt side...
This seems to be the only place the 25 Volts from the Supercaps go to the stator coils via the
diode board and from there via the coil´s connector board to the Stator iron motor case...


Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: hartiberlin on February 28, 2018, 09:53:51 PM
These Relay boards can be directly controlled by the Arduino Microcontroller as seen in this picture:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71KNWPpl43L._SL1000_.jpg

Hope this helps...
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: smoky on March 01, 2018, 12:57:15 AM
Hi Ariovaldo,
Your video that was a good idea to try the concept.
I would like to ask ..why did you not remove load lamps and take a look if the input current drops or not?
It would give an idea if Lenz effect still present with stationary wound rotor.



Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ariovaldo on March 01, 2018, 01:23:39 PM
There we go!


Ariovaldo


Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 01, 2018, 03:30:07 PM
Don't forget the phase angle between input voltage and input current. INPUT Power: Pin(active)= V x I x cos(fi)
( And the same at the output side because you are using bulbs.)
Regards / Arne
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ariovaldo on March 01, 2018, 04:00:27 PM
Using a large laminated core


Ariovaldo
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: smoky on March 01, 2018, 04:39:51 PM
Thanks Ariovaldo,
It seems like Lenz effect is still present using the traditional 3 phase dive method.


In the first case (ignoring any phase shift) your input current increased by 1.7 Amps at 110V
so roughly 187 Watts. Which is close to the total value of the 4 load lamps.
At 1.8A x 97V about 175 Watts actually reaching the load.


With no load it is likely the Amps & Volts are quite out of phase, so cant really just multiply the two.
We know it would be less than this multiplicand tho.


Not sure what you did in the second case but there was a dramatic improvement.
Your input power under load dropped by about 11% whilst at same time the power reaching the loads increased by 54%!


As far as Lenz goes your change of input power still changes but to a lesser extent.
Just taking the differences in Amps it's only 0.9A at 110 V  rather than 1.7 Amps.


Well done Ariovaldo,
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: AlienGrey on March 01, 2018, 09:27:45 PM
Is this device the same or similar to the The Clemente Figuera high-power generator ?
Only i'm a bit confused what's really going on, what we realy need to see is a block diagram.

Original device The Clemente Figuera high-power generator  by Patric Kelly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=notgCACOQr4
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: smoky on March 01, 2018, 09:50:22 PM
Hi Ariovaldo,


If you wanted to continue with this.
The input current is possibly higher because the main rotor is missing from the 3 phase motor housing.


If you are running a VFD and using say 50Hz for these tests.
Try increasing the frequency to say 100Hz, increasing like this should compensate for the lack of inductance.


If the frequency gets too high capacitive coupling rather than inductive can start to occur making readings incorrect.


Then run the last set of tests again, see if you can reach a point where power in loaded is less than power out loaded.


Also remember sometimes our instruments lose accuracy too away from their designed frequency range.





Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: hartiberlin on March 01, 2018, 09:59:40 PM
Has anybody and idea, how he would be able to get 60 Hz rotation frequency out of the slow relays switching ?
I spoke today with a friend who already used these relay boards and told me, they would only do about 10 to 20 Hz
reliable at maximum frequency....
So if Mr. Cotnoire is using 36 coils and switches each on one after the other he will never get 60 Hz, but only if he maybe
uses overlapping On/OFF periodss of each relay, but then he also would not get more than maybe 10 Hz rotation frequency of the magnetic field
inside the motor core...
Also his little magnet spinner did not do 60 Hz....

So the question is:
Will the drill he has shown also operate with maybe 10 Hz instead of 60 Hz ?
Will the Microwave also operate with 10 Hz AC ?

Can somebody please comment on this ?
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ariovaldo on March 01, 2018, 10:32:53 PM
Hi Ariovaldo,


If you wanted to continue with this.
The input current is possibly higher because the main rotor is missing from the 3 phase motor housing.


If you are running a VFD and using say 50Hz for these tests.
Try increasing the frequency to say 100Hz, increasing like this should compensate for the lack of inductance.


If the frequency gets too high capacitive coupling rather than inductive can start to occur making readings incorrect.


Then run the last set of tests again, see if you can reach a point where power in loaded is less than power out loaded.


Also remember sometimes our instruments lose accuracy too away from their designed frequency range.


I already tried VFD with 50 Hz. it pulled between 5 and 50 Amps with the flux in 60% range. If i increase the flux, the vfd amps will be high and will trip ( stall ). Nex week I will resume my tests.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: AlienGrey on March 01, 2018, 10:45:17 PM
Has anybody and idea, how he would be able to get 60 Hz rotation frequency out of the slow relays switching ?
I spoke today with a friend who already used these relay boards and told me, they would only do about 10 to 20 Hz
reliable at maximum frequency....
So if Mr. Cotnoire is using 36 coils and switches each on one after the other he will never get 60 Hz, but only if he maybe
uses overlapping On/OFF periodss of each relay, but then he also would not get more than maybe 10 Hz rotation frequency of the magnetic field
inside the motor core...
Also his little magnet spinner did not do 60 Hz....

So the question is:
Will the drill he has shown also operate with maybe 10 Hz instead of 60 Hz ?
Will the Microwave also operate with 10 Hz AC ?

Can somebody please comment on this ?
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Wouldn't that be to do with the software in the micro. he must have that as a variable he can alter.

On the original he just utilities the solenoid as an inductor ! the other thing to note is some microwaves
dont have an MOT and use a switch mode.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 01, 2018, 11:21:56 PM
Has anybody and idea, how he would be able to get 60 Hz rotation frequency out of the slow relays switching ? ....
Regards, Stefan.


You can clearly hear the rhythm from the relays in the first beginning of the second movie. It sounds like a multi cylinder engine running on idle.
The frequency is absolutely below 10 Hertz.

My suspicions about low efficiency  (OU Hoax) comes from the geometrics of the construction.

The (secondary) iron core ends is only in direct contact to a small part of the the outer iron
 ring stator fundament.
 When the outer rotating magnetic field passes (lines up) to those secondary coil core ends also maximum electric power transfers to the output. (Flux linking ??) But when the rotating magnetic field has passed by those ends and goes up to perpendicular to the output coil it's lots lots of air between. Bad Transfer! But the energy producing the magnetic field is still the same. Or higher because of lowered inductance depending on those huge airgaps. Thats why I suggested severel output (coils) cores.

Regards  / Arne
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: smoky on March 02, 2018, 04:26:04 AM
Hi I am only speculating here,
I think the drill is a brushed commutator motor which can be run even on DC.
The microwave Oven's a different story as usually they are transformer coupled power supply,
not like straight inverter type machines which have wide input frequency & voltage tolerances.


Pierre's demo is severely lacking in scope shots to to tell us the full story of what's coming out of the power coil (and other additional details).


It would be good if someone nearby with the equipment and skill could verify the build and help him bring the device to a more sophisticated level.
As I don't think the relay life would be all that long when used in this manner. 


Baring a fake video ..a self runner is a self runner I guess.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: memoryman on March 02, 2018, 08:37:32 AM
It's not a selfrunner. Most likely he's making fundamental measurement errors.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: e2matrix on March 02, 2018, 04:38:36 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_-xw_hL8nQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_-xw_hL8nQ)

 part 3


AWESOME!!!   Completely Self Running!  Looped!   I haven't watched the whole video yet as I skipped ahead to see if that is what he was going to do and it appears he has done exactly that.   Interesting action with the iron filings showing the rotating magnetic field with no mechanical rotation.   It looks like there may be some commonality with the Steven Mark's TPU.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: x_name41 on March 02, 2018, 07:45:19 PM
Hello everyone, the principle of this generator represents multiplexing all 36 coils (with a coefficient = 1/36) , only one coil is powered all the time. Obviously there is a summation of the power from all windings.

and a simulation of the 1 of 36 electromagnet cells: http://tinyurl.com/y92yff76
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: memoryman on March 02, 2018, 09:49:44 PM
Of course, the question of where the claimed extra energy comes from, is never answered.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: AlienGrey on March 03, 2018, 12:09:50 AM
start here there are over 20 digest and enjoy  ;D ;D
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 03, 2018, 07:08:07 AM
Slow down the Youtube video to a factor of 0.25 of normal speed, then focus on a single relay LED and use your phone stop-watch to see how long it takes for 10 flashes of the LED.


I get about 10.5secs. So this means that the frequency of the relay switching is about 3.75Hz.


He measures a frequency is 60.6Hz, so it is not clear how his switching frequency is multiplied by a factor of about 60.6/3.75=~16 to get from 3.75Hz to 60.6Hz. Anyone?
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 03, 2018, 12:25:58 PM
I have toggled the film frame by frame and found that it is always between 6 -12 relay LEDs lit simultaneously.  . . . . 10 12 10 10 6 8 10 10 8 6 10 .... 6 8 10 10 10 8 8 8 8 8 12 10 12 8 8
Regards / Arne
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Temporal Visitor on March 03, 2018, 12:35:41 PM
Number 4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1abEsE4R3U

The 60 HZ is very impressive ?

or Odd...

Hi Chet,
The output frequency is a matter controlled by the Arduino internal clock/crystal and the software/code routines running inside it to control the outputs that fire the hardware/relays being switched. I don't have any experience with Arduino but have worked with 8051/80552 since dinosaurs roamed.

His whole system is very logical and impressive, my hat is off to him.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: tinman on March 03, 2018, 12:43:26 PM
Of course, the question of where the claimed extra energy comes from, is never answered.

Thermionic transconductance  :D

But the flashing lights are pretty ::)
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: hartiberlin on March 03, 2018, 04:10:51 PM
I think the frequency is too exact for the mechanical relays to get exactly 60.7 Hz and
only changin in the 1 digit after the decimal point....
With an upconverted frequency from 3.75 Hz to 60 Hz like this, the frequency should basically change more ??
Well if these are really always 12 LEDs on, then he is really using some kind of flux overlapping to convert the lower frequency to a higher one,
like using phase shifting at the 16 x frequency or so.... or it is a full fake powered somehow by the mains frequency...but then, how has he done it ?
Just powering his supercaps from behind, where one can not see the cables going to the supercap boards ?
But this would not explain the really exact 60 Hz..Hmm....
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: hartiberlin on March 03, 2018, 04:40:40 PM
I have toggled the film frame by frame and found that it is always between 6 -12 relay LEDs lit simultaneously.  . . . . 10 12 10 10 6 8 10 10 8 6 10 .... 6 8 10 10 10 8 8 8 8 8 12 10 12 8 8
Regards / Arne

Yes, Arne you are right, he seems to use some kind of interleaving setup.
In the circuit board below the Arduino he uses 5 rows where always 2 or 3 LEDs are on and location shifted, so already an interleaving.

Then the Relay board under the Supercaps bank also has always at least 2 or 3  LEDs on at the same time, but not directly the next one but
the next but one point position....
Hmm, seems he uses very complex interleaving to upconvert the frequency somehow...

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 03, 2018, 05:01:47 PM
I have been interested in the Figuera principle a long time see my last thoughts here: http://www.energeticforum.com/307838-post2691.html  Post 2691
Here at this thread my A)-part/ thoughts fits.
I have tried in many experiments to "simulate" a magnet passing bye a coil with fixed coils. Not succeeded yet.
But it's there we have to start !

Regards / Arne

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: memoryman on March 03, 2018, 05:08:41 PM
It would be interesting to see the real line frequency displayed at the same time as the 'generated' one. I suspect that they will be identical.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 03, 2018, 05:13:16 PM
Stefan, all

Check the slow "beat" rate of the iron fillings. I don't think it is interferences with the movie frame rate. And we see many  "islands" of filling in a circle!  They don't rotates as hell. 60 Hz. And the template with magnets didn't spin? (Frame interference??)

Regards / Arne
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: hartiberlin on March 03, 2018, 05:31:43 PM
I think I have figured it out, how the poles are aligned inside the rotor.
He is using a 16 poles virtual field, like this, which is rotating, so the coil gets 16 inductions per rotation...
Like these car wheel spikes would cut the coil 16 times per revolution...
So that is how he could have interleaved his coils...to generate the fields like these car wheel spikes show...
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: hartiberlin on March 03, 2018, 05:34:19 PM
Actually this wheel has 15 spikes, must be probably a wheel with one more spike....lol... did not find a better picture right now...
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 03, 2018, 05:55:23 PM
I'm missing some oscilloscope shots. Square out ??
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: x_name41 on March 03, 2018, 06:12:53 PM
60Hz= 36 electromagnets per cycle and + 24 electromagnets (from36) in second cycle )
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: partzman on March 03, 2018, 06:20:51 PM
Here is a proposal on how this device could produce 60hz output.

Viewing the video at .25x speed, the timing of one complete cycle of the control board's leds appears to be 1s.  It also appears that 2 switches are on at any one time, so this would be equal to .025s in real time with a total of 18 intervals.  Therefore, each switch interval is .025/18 = 1.389ms.

Calculating the total number of intervals at 60Hz is (1/60)/1.389 = 12.  Since there are 36 total coils, 36/12 = 3 coils per switching interval.  However, to produce an even magnetic field across the stator, 2 pairs of 3 coils each positioned oppositely from each other on the stator would be required and driven with opposite polarities.  So, we have two 3-coil pairs sequentially switched on for a period of 1.389ms for a total of 12 intervals to complete one cycle which would equal 16.667ms which is 60Hz.

Regards,
Pm
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: e2matrix on March 03, 2018, 06:28:20 PM
Considering everything else he has done I don't find it hard to believe he has the frequency set close to 60Hz (60.7Hz).  However real line frequency I have always measured here (with a quality Fluke meter) is always 59.98 to 60.0 Hz so my guess is he is getting the frequency from his own setup - not line input.   Although it's possible his meter is off but his concerns about heat and improving his setup (why would he want to improve it if it's fake? - it's already self running) speaks volumes to me that this is real.   Also the TPU which has rotating magnetic fields (remember the two inner coils in the middle of the big TPU?) had some problems with heat.   


Someone mentioned he might have another outlet behind the Arduino circuit board.   From the standpoint of typical electrical code for construction this would be unlikely.   Electrical code and most construction will only have an outlet every 12 feet apart so that a 6 foot electric cord can reach an outlet from anywhere along a wall.  Since he has an outlet just to the left of his setup it's unlikely there would be one behind his board.   


I know there are ways this could be faked but given all the observed videos it seems very unlikely at this time.   It would be nice if we could have some discussion with him. 
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: memoryman on March 03, 2018, 06:33:04 PM
It would be EASY to fake this, and it most likely IS.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: hartiberlin on March 03, 2018, 07:12:08 PM
Here is a proposal on how this device could produce 60hz output.

Viewing the video at .25x speed, the timing of one complete cycle of the control board's leds appears to be 1s.  It also appears that 2 switches are on at any one time, so this would be equal to .025s in real time with a total of 18 intervals.  Therefore, each switch interval is .025/18 = 1.389ms.

Calculating the total number of intervals at 60Hz is (1/60)/1.389 = 12.  Since there are 36 total coils, 36/12 = 3 coils per switching interval.  However, to produce an even magnetic field across the stator, 2 pairs of 3 coils each positioned oppositely from each other on the stator would be required and driven with opposite polarities.  So, we have two 3-coil pairs sequentially switched on for a period of 1.389ms for a total of 12 intervals to complete one cycle which would equal 16.667ms which is 60Hz.

Regards,
Pm

Yes, I could be wrong with 16 Poles, maybe only 12 then ?
Could you please draw up a drawing how you see it ?

Well, yes as the flux lines must go out into the air and not stay inside the stator iron, he has to use some kind of trick to force the fluxlines go out into the air...
So he might use 3 coils to do this, so the middle one of each pole is the one which flux lines are forces out of the core....Do you mean it like this ?
Many thanks.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 03, 2018, 07:44:23 PM
Stefan, all
N-N or S-S ends opposing each other makes the Flux Lines to "escape" from the iron core where they collides!  Is a perpendicular (iron) core nearby it sucs in the flux.  ,  Or maybe Electromagnets in a row arranged as that FIX-magnet-array making the field to be stonger/ strengthened on one side (Halbach array).

Regards  / Arne
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: partzman on March 03, 2018, 09:40:56 PM
Yes, I could be wrong with 16 Poles, maybe only 12 then ?
Could you please draw up a drawing how you see it ?

Well, yes as the flux lines must go out into the air and not stay inside the stator iron, he has to use some kind of trick to force the fluxlines go out into the air...
So he might use 3 coils to do this, so the middle one of each pole is the one which flux lines are forces out of the core....Do you mean it like this ?
Many thanks.

The stator has 36 slots and 36 poles.  It appears he has wound each coil to encompass 5 poles with a total of 36 coils.  I propose he has then connected three consecutive coils in series for a total of 12 coil sets.  He then sequentially switches these 3-coil sets along with each opposite 3-coil set until one cycle is complete and then repeats the process.  The stationary rotor can then be placed basically anywhere in the stator to complete the magnetic path of the sequenced 3-coil sets.  The 3-coil sets that are adjacent to the ends of the rotor would produce the highest or peak voltage of the sine wave output.  The basic question is, can the energy recycled from the field collapse of the coil sets back to the super caps exceed the input energy?  It would appear so!

I'll have to dust off my AutoCad skills to produce a drawing!

Regards,
Pm
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 03, 2018, 09:57:43 PM
There are some other observations:


1. Based on wall plug and the fact his English is not very good (and based on his French name), he is most probably located in the French region of Canada.


2. The first video states the home made transformer is 36V 30amps. With a 120V main line, this means the ratio of windings is 120/36=4/3. Driving a 2.5A current in from the mains side is equivalent to a current of 4/3*2.5=8.33amps on the secondary. This is rectified and goes through a 4ohms 50W resistor. The power generated in the resistor is I^2*R=(4/3*2.5)^2*4=278W! This will explain why in video 4 the resistor is very hot, BUT, I am not sure how a resistor can survive this much power for so long if it is only rated for 50W.


3. I notice a thin red wire going from the diode bridge into the same bundle as the wires coming from the cap/resistor. Then a black thin wire pops up at the end of this bundle together with the red wire, but I don't see where it is coming from (maybe it is spliced into the thicker black wire somewhere). Another intermediate size red wire is spliced onto the resistor and this wire appears to go to (or come from) the diode recovery board. He states this is "the return wire of the coil that will charge the supercapacitor". If it is charging the supercapacitors, not sure why it is by passing the resistor as it would expose them to any high voltage BEMF which could possibly damage the capacitor boards.


4. He is using three super-cap boards which appear to be wired in series (not parallel). This is to increase the max voltage that can be applied to them. Each of the board has 6 caps in series, the caps on each of these boards are 500F with a working voltage of 2.7V. So 18 of them in series will allow for a max voltage of 18x2.7V = 48.6V. Total capacity is reduced to 500/18=27.7F. Energy stored in them at 24V applied voltage is 0.5*C*V^2=0.5*27.78*24^2=8000 Joules. So that is 0.00222 kWh, or 2.22 Wh or 79.2kWs. This means he could run a 1100W microwave for about 72secs max.


5. Motor stator appears to come from a three phase motor. Identification is 36A01W462 F1009/1759 (or 1760). I did a search for the stator number and found this:


http://attachments.temcoindustrialpower.com/Data_sheet/Baldor-M3613T-50.pdf (http://attachments.temcoindustrialpower.com/Data_sheet/Baldor-M3613T-50.pdf)


https://www.easa.com/resources/booklet/typical-failures-three-phase-stator-windings (https://www.easa.com/resources/booklet/typical-failures-three-phase-stator-windings)


I probably didn't wind this stator himself. Extremely difficult to do that. Maybe he just used an off the shelf stator and then wired each of the 36 windings up to his control board to the way he needed it.


6. It does look like he is driving the stator in a 3 phase fashion. In his first video, notice how he has three connectors from the control boards hooking up to the stator.


7. His arduino is from www.sainsmart.com (http://www.sainsmart.com). But Googling I can't find any reference on Arduino 2556 (I do find 2560).


8. The diode recovery board is grouped into three groups: 2x group of 27 diodes, 1x group of 18 diodes for a total of 72 diodes. If it is driven 3-phase, why are they not grouped into three groups of 24?


PmgR
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: e2matrix on March 04, 2018, 05:29:21 AM
There are some other observations:


<snip


7. His arduino is from www.sainsmart.com (http://www.sainsmart.com). But Googling I can't find any reference on Arduino 2556 (I do find 2560).

snip <


I found reference to an Arduino Mega 2556 in a University of Wisconsin document for what it's worth.  Apparently not a common Arduino board but there are a few references to them around.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Thaelin on March 04, 2018, 05:32:02 AM
So PMGR?   Why did you decide to snip your content? 

>I have been interested in the Figuera principle a long time see my last thoughts here: http://www.energeticforum.com/307838-post2691.html (http://www.energeticforum.com/307838-post2691.html)  Post 2691
Here at this thread my A)-part/ thoughts fits.
I have tried in many experiments to "simulate" a magnet passing bye a coil with fixed coils. Not succeeded yet.
But it's there we have to start !

Regards / Arne<

You may have something relevant to what is happening. We shouldn't erase content as it may well spark another to finding an answer.

thay
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 04, 2018, 05:48:16 AM
So PMGR?   Why did you decide to snip your content? 


I had two windows open with the same content, then accidentally hit the post button on the second window. Tried to find a way to delete my second post (which had the same content), but couldn't find a delete button, hence I snipped it since it won't let me post an empty reply.... sorry, haven't used to forum for a while, let me know if there is a way to delete your own post...


PmgR
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Jeg on March 04, 2018, 11:18:33 AM
3. I notice a thin red wire going from the diode bridge into the same bundle as the wires coming from the cap/resistor. Then a black thin wire pops up at the end of this bundle together with the red wire, but I don't see where it is coming from (maybe it is spliced into the thicker black wire somewhere).

Hi pmgr
One possibility could be to use the 120Hz ripple for sync purposes like modulating the transistor's inputs.

ps. solid state relays are much faster than mechanical ones
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: AlienGrey on March 04, 2018, 02:08:57 PM
I don't want appear to be a smart arse with SCR's, but i was wondering I if you had not noticed that SCR's don't tend to generate a 'SPARK' so easy and it's also what kills 'RELAYS', the contacts tend to weld on cheep variety, and they arn't cheep and don't last long with that kind of treatment  not to mention not everyone can put a hand on the odd multi-phase motor so easy or on the cheep :-\  Just thought I would mention it  8)

Why don't you ask the guy for the information to copy it, I mean economics should tell you running and component cost to buld it wont be cheep or economical !

Unless you know some thing I don't  ;D
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: partzman on March 04, 2018, 04:33:37 PM
My apologies :-[.  I have a basic mistake in my calcs in post #81 that is, viewing the video at .25x equals .25s real time, not .025s.  Therefore all the logic and calcs are useless including post #87.

Sorry,
Pm
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: cheors on March 04, 2018, 05:40:41 PM
Some probable data:

-Notice the potentiometer to the right: may be to adjust the arduino timing (60 Hz frequency)
- 36 wires from/to the motor core (4 x 8 wires connectors + 1 x 4 wires)
- Arduino generate only 8 states to the transistors and relays.(about 1/30 Second)
- For each state, there are 6 active transistors (blue leds)
- and 12 active relays (red leds)( more difficult to see)

But more than 6 coils are switched on at certain time.
I think some overlapping is useful to get a smooth rotating field.
It is the reason why Arduino program generates 8 steps not 6.
Stop the video when you see 3 consecutive leds:one full lit, one dimming and one increasing.

Magic numbers :
72 diodes
72 relays, (9 x 8 =72),
36 coils (x 2 =72)
36 transistors ( 37 ?? , one seems to be down or not wired)
8 arduino states (x 9 = 72)
6 active transistors (x 12 = 72)
12 active relays (x 6 = 72)
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ariovaldo on March 04, 2018, 05:43:33 PM
It looks like it’s 4 poles motor, 1:8 pitch, 2 layers, series lap. I don’t know how many turns, but probably 40 turns of 20 or 22 gauge. This assumption is in base of my experience in motors. The core (stator) appears to me, it is 3 hp motor
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Jeg on March 04, 2018, 06:18:12 PM
My apologies :-[.  I have a basic mistake in my calcs in post #81 that is, viewing the video at .25x equals .25s real time, not .025s.  Therefore all the logic and calcs are useless including post #87.

Sorry,
Pm
No worries Pm. Everyone makes his own calcs anyway. The owner of the device says in his video that there are six magnetic fields at anytime which rotate (6 coils). So with six steps (6stepsX6 coils = 36 coils) we cover the whole cycle. If the time/step is 16.6ms which we know it is(60Hz), then the whole cycle will be complete after 6X16.6ms=99.6ms = 10Hz. And that is the frequency we watch spinning around below the iron fillings.

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ariovaldo on March 04, 2018, 06:27:22 PM
I’ll start to prepare the coils. Any suggestions? Pitch of 6 or 8 as a conventional motor? I do have 20 gauge and I will make it parallel .
What do you guys think?
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 04, 2018, 11:26:56 PM
I’ll start to prepare the coils. Any suggestions? Pitch of 6 or 8 as a conventional motor? I do have 20 gauge and I will make it parallel .
What do you guys think?
Ariovaldo, can you post some pictures of the stator of an induction motor that you have on hand so we can get an idea of how exactly the windings are positioned in such a motor. Photos of top and bottom site with an indication of how the wires run back to front and over the outside.


Thx, PmgR
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Thaelin on March 05, 2018, 04:58:00 AM
  PMGR:
    Think in terms of "Y". Most 3 phase are that way but can also be Delta.     We just do not have any idea on how he altered the winds on his or if he completely re-wired it. Just invision every third winding belongs to the same group whether parallel or series wound.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 05, 2018, 09:48:29 AM
Hi everyone
Pierre answers questions in his youtube comments section.
He answered mine (I translated to French first) and he also answered Stefan and two of my friends also wrote him there and he answered both.
So if you have questions, ask him there - you don't need to sneak around like you are afraid he will find out you are studying his video frame by frame instead just ask! (but still study frame by frame if you want haha)
Pierre said he came here, but could not figure out to post anything so expect him to appear later on.
This could be something now that the world has been waiting for - a simple looping overunity device easily manufactured - or it can be something that disappears from  public and technical "scrutiny" (like this board)  after  the inventor becomes frustrated with a perpetual headache from rude questions, rude attitudes, rude accusations. I have already seen maybe 5 people here accusing him of being fake so fuck off you hosers eh?


Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ramset on March 05, 2018, 02:40:48 PM
Pierre's link again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1abEsE4R3U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1abEsE4R3U)

------------------------------
konehead

its not that there haven't been 100000 claimed OU devices

its just that no one has ever shared one ...........that looped with gain ...till now  [hopefully ??]

getting that big capacitor bank out of the picture should just be an engineering issue ...?
although...some will say the contact points are a possible gain mechanism ??
===============================

the easiest job in the world has been that of the nay sayer ......

hopefully
until Now !! ??

respectfully

Chet K

PS
once again
there are members of this open source community [members here]  who could help qualify this claim in Canada.
A Lab quality investigation with full supporting documentation .

at no cost to Pierre

Stefan could help set this up....

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 05, 2018, 03:20:33 PM
Hi Chet

Pierre does not really need lab testing and full documentation!....the thing LOOPS (!)

He could use helpful advice for improvements, encouragement. plus throw in some praise for what he has achieved.

What he needs is to be safe and sound, continue his work, and keep it open sourced....
 
konehead
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: memoryman on March 05, 2018, 03:32:43 PM
What Pierre needs is knowledgeable people making critical comments. The self-looping has not been clearly demonstrated; there are many ways to fake that.
There have been no explanations of where the allegedly "free energy" comes from.
You can be sure that his device does NOT do what is claimed.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 05, 2018, 03:45:04 PM
Sorry Charlie

Pierre is the knowledgable one.....he KNOWS how it works and you the so called knowledgable one do not.

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: e2matrix on March 05, 2018, 05:27:38 PM
Agree 100% with konehead.   


I received a message from the inventor / builder of this device here on overunity.   So he has registered here but he does not speak English and used Google translate to send me a PM.   I've warned him about trolls but also about the many good builders and members here who will just want to understand how it all works.   He asked me a question which didn't really translate well with Google but I gave him as much info as I could.   His question essentially was 'what to expect to do when you find the solution of the dz generator if you find it you are on the right sees but you can miss one more'.   His member name here is pedro1.   Hopefully he will post here too but if not as konehead said you can PM him or post in his video comments and he will reply there.   
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on March 05, 2018, 05:35:36 PM
Hi all, I was just thinking, why could not a simpler version be created, like a 3 phase and what about using a stamp micro-controller to sequentially pulse the coils.
Are so many coils and parts really needed to see the effect, is what i'm pondering.
peace love light
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ramset on March 05, 2018, 06:15:21 PM
RE
Language
we have a few who frequent here and could assist him [and are builders too
Woopy {Laurent]
NerzhDisual [Jean
Gotoluc  [Luc]
Tagor [not sure if he builds]

to name a few...

respectfully
Chet
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Paul-R on March 05, 2018, 07:00:11 PM

There have been no explanations of where the allegedly "free energy" comes from.
It'll be the Quantum Physics sea of energy, surely? Maintaining the dipole and all that.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ramset on March 05, 2018, 07:22:40 PM
Note
Did just speak with GotoLuc {Luc]
he is going to reach out for Pierre

respectfully
Chet K
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 05, 2018, 10:36:22 PM
Hi guys,

I sent pedro1 (Pierre Cotnoir) a private massage (in French) to welcome him and offer my help with translation since my mother tung is French. Looks like we are both French Canadian.
Hopefully we can talk on the phone and I can help answer some questions.

Regards

Luc
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 05, 2018, 11:20:24 PM
There are multiple patents that cover rotating/traveling wave magnetic fields, that purport to be OU/self powering.

One of these patents is attached. I built figure 14 from this patent (attached image), which is one of the simplest implementations. This was about nine years ago.

At the time I never had the right equipment to analyze the power from the two phase output.

I assumed at the time, that lenz would have to be circumvented for these schemes to work.

Also attached is a linear version of the 3 phase transformer described in the patent (the last few steel sections missing). I can confirm this variant showed no remarkable performance and it was clear that a closed stator was likely the only way the operation described, could be reproduced.

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 06, 2018, 10:46:57 AM
I think I can see how the pulsed stator sections are achieving the apparent OU effect.

The angle of flux arrival into the central core section is changing over time however, the CEMF associated with the load is directed back into the stator at largely the same fixed angle. Although only a single coil is being pulsed at any one time, the flux will also couple back to the other side of the central core via the stator. 

At the point where the CEMF flux couples to the stator there will be a phase difference between the two fluxes. Essentially the CEMF does not cancel the energizing flux, in fact it may even reenforce it if the phase difference is sufficient.

The efficiency would be a limited by a single central core coil. I would think three core/coil  sections spaced at 120 deg would do better.

Being a pulsed system, energy recovery is also possible when each coil turns off.

The three phase transformer patent, based on an induction motor stator, is harder to explain however, perhaps there is a flux circulating in the stator that is being reused. 

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 06, 2018, 11:31:54 AM
Hi L192
Thanks for the good theory why and how it works.
Okki from Germany just gave me good idea in an email to me today;
why not try this with a car alternator?
Just to see the effect and what happens with that....anyways this a pretty good initial simple experiment to try - the pulse to stators could even be done with timing disc with small magnets on it, against hall effects to trip mosfets or just do the arduino if you have it and know how...
konehead
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: x_name41 on March 06, 2018, 12:26:41 PM
ok, to share something, some time ago when I wrote a comment on Pierre's video then immediately removed the video and I got the following answer to my question which is contained below
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 06, 2018, 04:25:31 PM
Well guys, no reply from Pierre.
I left him a French personal message on youtube and as well here on this site.
No reply until now.
From my years of experience that's not a good start if someone has nothing to hide.
If you are reading this message Pierre, please send me a reply email at:  gotoluc2@gmail.com
I would like to call you to ask some questions (in French) as your English translation is a little confusing.
Let me help you and the other researchers here.

Luc

Fr. Eh bien les gars, pas de réponse de Pierre.
Je lui ai laissé un message personnel en français sur youtube et aussi sur ce site.
Pas de réponse jusqu'à maintenant.
De mes années d'expérience, ce n'est pas un bon début si quelqu'un n'a rien à cacher.
Si vous lisez ce message Pierre, s'il vous plaît envoyez-moi un email de réponse à:  gotoluc2@gmail.com
Je voudrais vous appeler pour poser quelques questions car votre traduction anglaise est un peu confuse.
Laissez-moi vous aider ainsi que les autres chercheurs ici.

Sincères amitiés

Luc
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 06, 2018, 05:30:48 PM
He is also here.

https://brfilm.net/ch-UCbTYIW_yo65zgWdMlcA3s9A

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: cheors on March 06, 2018, 05:57:45 PM
Je ne comprends pas où va le 25V des super capacités. Il y a un +5V pour les relais et un 12V séparé pour l'Arduino.
Seule réponse :pour alimenter les 36 bobines

I don't understand where the SuperCap 25V DC is wired. There are a +5V power supply for the relays and a 12V one for the Arduino.
Only one answer :  to power the 36 coils.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: e2matrix on March 06, 2018, 07:09:22 PM
Well guys, no reply from Pierre.
I left him a French personal message on youtube and as well here on this site.
No reply until now.
From my years of experience that's not a good start if someone has nothing to hide.
If you are reading this message Pierre, please send me a reply email at:  gotoluc2@gmail.com
I would like to call you to ask some questions (in French) as your English translation is a little confusing.
Let me help you and the other researchers here.

Luc

IN FRENCH


Eh bien les gars, pas de réponse de Pierre.
Je lui ai laissé un message personnel en français sur youtube et aussi sur ce site.
Pas de réponse jusqu'à maintenant.
De mes années d'expérience, ce n'est pas un bon début si quelqu'un n'a rien à cacher.
Si vous lisez ce message Pierre, s'il vous plaît envoyez-moi un email de réponse à:  gotoluc2@gmail.com
Je voudrais vous appeler pour poser quelques questions car votre traduction anglaise est un peu confuse.
Laissez-moi vous aider ainsi que les autres chercheurs ici.

Sincères amitiés

Luc


Luc,  I tried leaving Pierre a second message here yesterday but got "Inbox full" on his account so I suspect he may have been overwhelmed with PM's after I posted his user name in this thread.   I did get a reply from him to my first message which he wrote in French.  I'm just in the process of translating that at the moment.   
   He thanked me for the message, and for all the other members who wrote to him.   He mentions he may have built something that bypasses some laws but said there are always ways around some laws.   He said there is still much to do and that he will respond to my messages when he has the time but that he also works so does not have a lot of time.   Since he replied in French and I used Google to translate I think that is the essence of the message although there were some other mention that he will do another video to explain the principle of his device.   
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 06, 2018, 07:36:01 PM
Thanks for the information e2matrix.
My first language is French, so if you want me to do a reliable translation feel free to email or pm me the text.

Luc
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 06, 2018, 07:36:08 PM
Another thing I noticed on the transistors that drive the relays:


There are 37 of them on the board, but one is not functional (number 35 if you count from the bottom right to the left and then upwards starting at the right again).


The transistors are activated as follows: 2 on, 8 off, 2 on, 10 off, 2 on 12 off, lets call it 8-10-12 pattern. They follow the following on pattern when running (numbering as indicated above)


1,2;11,12;23,24
2,3;12,13;25,26
3,4;13,14;26,27
etc.


So there are six coils activated at each point in time. This is why Pierre mentions in video 1 that there are six magnetic fields in the stator.


Not sure why he is using this odd 8-10-12 "off" pattern; it would have been more logical to have used a 10-10-10 "off" pattern. But I think he does it to make a phase delay between the three "phases" of transistors that are on. If 36 coils represent 360deg (one full rotation), a "phase" shift of 2 transistors out of 36 yields -20deg and +20deg.


Based on earlier discussion, each red relay light goes on at a speed of about once per second when the video is played at 0.25x speed. So at normal 1x video speed it flashes 4 times per second (3.75-4Hz or 0.25-0.27sec). As each red led goes on 3 times per full rotation, one full stator rotation takes 0.75sec, or 1.33Hz. I think this is in agreement with how slow his wood-stick magnet pointer behaves when he sticks it into the stator in video 1.


Lastly, I also looked up the Arduino 2560 and it has 54 digital I/O pins, so enough to drive 36 transistors.


PmgR
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: x_name41 on March 06, 2018, 07:49:57 PM
1/36 or 3/36...
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Mem on March 07, 2018, 08:39:12 AM
What Pierre needs is knowledgeable people making critical comments. The self-looping has not been clearly demonstrated; there are many ways to fake that.
There have been no explanations of where the allegedly "free energy" comes from.
You can be sure that his device does NOT do what is claimed.
Memoryman! You speak out of the old memory bro! You better open your eyes and see how the circuit is looped and don't be shy, scared or resentful to accept the self evidence of technology that right before our eyes that is clearly looped, period. Whether you like to admitted or not.
Trust yourself and accept the truth which will set you free.  No need to be slaves of outdated physics formulas creates mental blocks.
 
This man's achievement it's a stupendous victory for perpetual motion seekers and demonstrated as a true fact! He did it and in can be done again and again.
That leaves miles behind so called educated or academic accomplished people that some still today accepts the lie as a ultimate truth! Spend years leaning in great halls and they become super proud of knowing what doesn't work!  Blind leading blind also is acceptable in blinds world. But, once your eyes are open and see the world you can never go back again!

Wonderfully created school buildings it does give a credibility and legitimacy what they teach! But, let us not be ignorant anymore for outdated so called earthly physics formulas that they still operated in the minds of limited thinkers and educators "like Microsoft Windows 3.1 that still operates well perform many tasks with a great speed".  This was really true in 1992, but the question is: is it today?   LOL     
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 07, 2018, 12:27:49 PM
The stator looks like that from a 36 slot, three phase generator.

Would also explain why the rotor fits so well. Also looks like he has used a sleeve to remove the airgap, to make sure it doesn't turn

Difficult to determine but it looks like a 8 slot pitch lap winding for the 36 coils.

Did he rewind or just snip wire to isolate the coils so they could be individually connected?

L192.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 07, 2018, 02:46:21 PM
Hi all
On Pierre's part 4 youtube demo, in comments someone from Brazil asked 8 hours ago about the 60hz and how it is created since he mentioned a  2pole rotor (N and S in rotor)  generator would need to be going 3600rpm to make 60hz.....Pierre replied it is a 6 pole generator, and so it only needs 600rpm so that must be the rpms that the field rotates at so this seems to answer question of the frequency of the field rotation...
however this does not make sense to me, since 2pole=3600rpm, 4pole = 1800rpm  8 pole = 900rpm, and 16 pole = 400 rpm  and 600rpm would be from a 12 pole rptpr (625rpm? doing math in head now)
So maybe the magnetic filed rotation  faces in polarity of pulses  S all the way around or N all the way around?
This would not make the greatest sinewave in the world if so,
but field collapsing after each pulse could provide the extra half of sinewave...maybe he relies on collapsing field to "complete" the sinewave? This is why he fried his microwave since not a really good sinewave happening...
Maybe all it is, is that what Pierre considers to be a 6 pole rotor, is what others consider to be a 12 pole rotor! (probably this is it)
Sure seems like that rotor is going only 600 rpm with the magnets and the ferrous powder to see it spin....
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: memoryman on March 07, 2018, 03:16:15 PM
MEM: Obviously you like magic shows and are ready to believe whatever you see.
Which laws of physics that apply here are broken? How?
Pierre's videos do NOT show an OU device. A real self looped OU device does not need a bank of storage batteries or super caps.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 07, 2018, 03:48:14 PM
When ONE magnet pole passes by a coil core we get ONE FULL SINUS ! With TWO magnet poles (same polarity N-N or S-S) ==> TWO SINUS

Regards / Arne
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ramset on March 07, 2018, 04:30:23 PM
memoryman

your point is self evident [there are always ways to fake ]

It is a room full of adults here not children ,and PLENTY of folks with Much life experience in the fields of Science ,Electrical engineering, Physics  all Manner of skills and life experience ....yet almost to the last man [members here]...
there is that itch you just can't scratch....



Believing in the what ifs? is what we do  , it is fun and also a great learning tool or teaching tool as the case may be.

and it only makes us stronger as a community.

regardless of the impressions one might get from time to time here.

peeps are interested ,and ALWAYS curious .... everyday,   science and technology jump forward in one day what would have
taken millennium or centuries in the past .

suffice to say we are cracking / interpreting the written language of DNA....
and I am certain the days when we will do the same with Matter ,and gravity and all the rest.....[the How too

not far behind ,[most likely in the lifetime of persons reading here

and here we have the everyman experimenter in an open source forum.. no strings or fees attached

you could not beat us away with a stick...
regardless the outcome here [in this thread]

respectfully
Chet K
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: memoryman on March 07, 2018, 05:13:53 PM
Chet, actually sometimes there are no ways to fake.
This is not about 'faking it'. For this to be OU, either energy is 'liberated' or 'created'.
IF you can show me ONE example of LoT1 (Law of Thermodynamics 1) being violated, then I might consider that possibility.
In lieu of that, it leaves only energy is 'liberated'. Show me how and where. Also explain why the bank of super caps is actually needed.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: e2matrix on March 07, 2018, 06:24:59 PM
MEM: Obviously you like magic shows and are ready to believe whatever you see.
Which laws of physics that apply here are broken? How?
Pierre's videos do NOT show an OU device. A real self looped OU device does not need a bank of storage batteries or super caps.


 I don't believe there is any way you are going to run a microwave oven for 60 seconds off of 18 super caps the size as he has in the video.  He does not use batteries.  While I've only got 6 super caps of that size I couldn't even run a 60 watt light bulb for 30 seconds off of them with an efficient inverter.  So the power has to be coming from his Arduino controlled coils and setup. 
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: memoryman on March 07, 2018, 06:45:03 PM
I advocate critical thinking. Part of that means question your assumptions (especially the assumed ones).
There are several assumptions in your post, including that there is no hidden power source (wires supplying power, etc).
Just because we don't understand WHY Pierre would fake it (IF he does) doesn't mean that he isn't faking it.
This experiment could be done much better and ideally would be verified by several knowledgeable people using their own test equipment. That would not include me, unless I get paid.
In case you think hat all I do is criticise, i am personally involved in two 'free energy' projects. They are NOT OU though.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ramset on March 07, 2018, 07:16:16 PM
memoryman
are they open source projects ?

or business ventures?

no need to pay anyone ...when there are persons here who can get the resources at no cost EVER to Pierre
in other words "no strings".[even for a black box demonstration]

and no lack of benevolent highly qualified persons to help [with no business interests whatsoever],
and it could all be live streamed right here at Stefan's

as it does seem Pierre is open sourcing .

Also
I like the idea presented earlier in this thread...

a discussion around
 
 How could this be a possible gain mechanism
...?? [regardless if this is real or not.

there is plenty Open source work to do around here....
and PLENTY of talent at the ready.

respectfully
Chet K
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 07, 2018, 07:52:14 PM
Thanks for the information e2matrix.
My first language is French, so if you want me to do a reliable translation feel free to email or pm me the text.

Luc

Hi everyone,

The below is a English translation (from French) of a PM e2matrix received from pedro1 (Pierre) a few days ago.

Thank you for your message and to all those who wrote me.
Thank you all for your advice.
I would like to confirm I have managed to build something that seems to bypass the written laws.
I always thought there was a way around these laws, we just need to think of different ways of going about it. There's still a lot to do.
To start with, in the next couple of weeks I'm going to make another video explaining the principle of the dz generator and the problems I have encountered.
The video will be for everyone who has interest in the device.
Afterwards you will be able to help me improve it.
My daily job requires many hours of my time, so I may not have much time to write during the week but don't worry, when I do have time I'll answer.

Thank you

Pierre
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: memoryman on March 07, 2018, 08:13:48 PM
RAMSET: one involves the direct conversion of heat into electricity; has not been done on a large scale that is cost competitive with solar. It is not 'open source' until some money return has been realised.
The other one involves the Papp engine replication; I am under an NDA so can't discuss any more; it will never be 'open source'.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 07, 2018, 08:26:08 PM
The below is a PM reply I (gotoluc) received from Pierre which I translated to English.

Hello Luc

I received your message but I'm not always at my computer.
The reply delay is not because I don't want to answer, it's because I don't have much time in the evening since I work between 60 to 65 hrs a week.
I see your messages at work but don' have enough time to answer you and everyone at the same time.
I may have more time to answer on the weekends.
As for my phone number, I want keep it confidential as well as my email address. If I start giving my personal details out you can imagine the disturbance will never end. I hope you understand?
For the past week I wanted to make a new video but was unable since too much of my time was used to answer people.
But don't worry about it, I eventually answer and will answer new questions after I have the new video up which should help to understand the principle.
Anyways, I also have things I don't fully understand yet, so I'm going to need everyones help.
You can contact me on the overunity site. My user name is pedro1

Thank you

Pierre

So there you have it. PLEASE let's all refrain from contacting Pierre and give him a little more time.
Mostly if you don't write or speak fluent French. That just confuses things and wastes time.

You can PM me with specific questions (not answers already) that you may have which I'll compile and translate (in French) to send to Pierre once a week.

Thanks for your cooperation and understanding.

Luc

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: hartiberlin on March 07, 2018, 08:28:44 PM
Many thanks Luc for your great help !
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 07, 2018, 09:36:34 PM
To all FYI,

I just replied to Pierre's message (posted above) with the below message

Thanks for your reply Pierre,

You may of noticed I translated two of your messages and posted them on the forum.
I ask for all forum members to stop contacting you, mostly if they don't know French
From now on, any messages you receive from forum member please copy and paste this reply to them: Please send your message to gotoluc  he will compile, translate and post my answers at the forum topic once a week. Thank you

It instructs members to send me (gotoluc) the massage which I will translate for you and only send you the message/questions once a week which I'll post your reply at the forum in proper English.

As for your new video. Please explain everything in French and post the video unlisted and send me the link.
I will download it and make a new audio track in English for you. That will greatly help and reduce time wasted to explain what's been causing confusion through translation.
We really need as much details as possible on how you archived 60Hz.
Also, we don't understand how your Arduino 2560 is able to control 36 transistors as the specifications says it has 54 digital I/O pins, so looks to be 27 pins for in or out.
Please carefully explain the above and the timing sequence.

Thanks for your help

Luc
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Jeg on March 07, 2018, 10:08:56 PM
Gotoluc
54 I/O
You can use any of the 54 pins for either an input or an output. This is done by programming. So actually you can drive up to 54 transistors if you set the pins as outputs.

Regards

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 07, 2018, 10:18:37 PM
From the 2560 specs..

Each of the 54 digital pins on the Mega can be used as an input or output, using pinMode() (https://www.arduino.cc/en/Reference/PinMode),digitalWrite() (https://www.arduino.cc/en/Reference/DigitalWrite), and digitalRead() (https://www.arduino.cc/en/Reference/DigitalRead) functions. They operate at 5 volts. Each pin can provide or receive 20 mA as recommended operating condition and has an internal pull-up resistor (disconnected by default) of 20-50 k ohm. A maximum of 40mA is the value that must not be exceeded to avoid permanent damage to the microcontroller.

My only question would be confirmation of the winding pitch?

6 magnetic fields in play could just be 3 phases spaced at 12 slots (120 degrees) two coils per phase @180 degrees to each other.
Every rotation then produces 3 cycles.
20 rotations = 60 cycles.

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 07, 2018, 11:29:29 PM
Thanks Jeg and L192 for clearing that.

I saw a post (can't find it now) with the concern of the Arduino's ability to drive all 36 transistor.

So, no need for Pierre to go over that in the new video.

Thanks

Luc
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 08, 2018, 01:10:00 AM
I let Pierre know we don't need information on the Arduino
He clarified the Arduino does not have 54 I / O   
He says it has 15 inputs 0-20ma and 54 output 5volt

Just to make sure we are all on the same page.

Luc
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: TinselKoala on March 08, 2018, 04:03:21 AM
I let Pierre know we don't need information on the Arduino
He clarified the Arduino does not have 54 I / O   
He says it has 15 inputs 0-20ma and 54 output 5volt

Just to make sure we are all on the same page.

Luc

Just to make sure we are all on the same page... This information isn't secret, you know.

Quote
The Mega 2560 is a microcontroller board based on the ATmega2560 (http://www.atmel.com/Images/Atmel-2549-8-bit-AVR-Microcontroller-ATmega640-1280-1281-2560-2561_datasheet.pdf). It has 54 digital input/output pins (of which 15 can be used as PWM outputs), 16 analog inputs, 4 UARTs (hardware serial ports), a 16 MHz crystal oscillator, a USB connection, a power jack, an ICSP header, and a reset button.

https://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardMega2560?setlang=en (https://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardMega2560?setlang=en)

I have one right here in my hot little grubby hands, and I can confirm that it has 54 digital input/output pins, each of which can be set independently either to Input OR Output by the software sketch.

Perhaps there is something lost or scrambled in the translation from French. Or perhaps Pierre is just learning about Arduinos. Or... perhaps the manufacturer's web page, and my experience writing sketches and using the Arduino 2560 Mega, are somehow wrong. What do you think is most likely?

While each of the 54 pins, when set to Output in software, can easily handle 20 mA current at 5V, the entire board is limited to 200 mA total. So you cannot have all the 54 pins sourcing 20 mA at the same time. But as long as you stay below the 200 mA total output you can drive transistors sequentially... even 54 of them, just not all at once.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Mem on March 08, 2018, 07:57:58 AM
MEM: Obviously you like magic shows and are ready to believe whatever you see.
Which laws of physics that apply here are broken? How?
Pierre's videos do NOT show an OU device. A real self looped OU device does not need a bank of storage batteries or super caps.


Memoryman, That's true, however there are no established rules or regulations that OU device not suppose to have  super caps.  When input  is 170 Watts and the circuit puts out 10 times more usable watts besides powering itself and circuit voltage rises on board volt meter as soon as self looping takes place. If you don't have enough practical experience to know the meaning of this? Then I should waste no more time to say anything beyond this point. 
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Mem on March 08, 2018, 08:07:40 AM
Hi everyone,

The below is a English translation (from French) of a PM e2matrix received from pedro1 (Pierre) a few days ago.

Thank you for your message and to all those who wrote me.
Thank you all for your advice.
I would like to confirm I have managed to build something that seems to bypass the written laws.
I always thought there was a way around these laws, we just need to think of different ways of going about it. There's still a lot to do.
To start with, in the next couple of weeks I'm going to make another video explaining the principle of the dz generator and the problems I have encountered.
The video will be for everyone who has interest in the device.
Afterwards you will be able to help me improve it.
My daily job requires many hours of my time, so I may not have much time to write during the week but don't worry, when I do have time I'll answer.

Thank you

Pierre
If you are a person that you have more than enough financially,  you will do great good by helping Pierre financially so he can pursue he is R&D.
I wish I was in that position to help him out...
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 08, 2018, 08:24:49 AM
I have simulated the magnetic field in his stator and the output coil ???


Assuming he has six coils switched on at a time, e.g. 1-2, 13-14, 25-26, you will get three poles in the stator and thus three sine waves in the output coil per one full rotation of over the stator.


Please see the attached animated GIF for animation (you will have to save the GIF file to your computer and open it with the regular windows built-in Picture and Fax viewer to see it animated; animation speed will depend on your processor speed; let me know if it is spinning too fast and I will slow it down for you). See the JPG for the flux.


PmgR
====
Help end the persecution of Falun Gong * www.faluninfo.net (http://www.faluninfo.net) * www.stoporganharvesting.org (http://www.stoporganharvesting.org)
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 08, 2018, 09:21:21 AM
Hi Pmgr,

His stator has lap windings with about an 8 slot pitch, so no slot to adjacent slot coils as you have shown. Nice simulation by the way.

It is possible that he is energising two adjacent lap coils per phase and just letting the flux return through the stator, or he could be energising an opposing coil at 180 deg for each phase.

I assume this is FEMM. Can you make the .FEM file available?

Regards

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 08, 2018, 09:34:06 AM
Hi PmgR,

One other thing you could try, is to simulate the Counter flux through the central (rotor) core.

 Just set up some current through that output coil, so it opposes the energizing flux. My theory is that when the flux is out of alignment with the rotor, the rotor steel will steer some of the counter flux due to the load, straight through the unenergized section  of the stator i.e. not all of the counter flux will be returned through the energized section.

Regards

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 08, 2018, 03:02:29 PM
Hi all especially Luc!
Here is simple JPG drawing of 36 pole stator, and fixed-rotor like what Pierre has going on....
Can you use this drawing as easy reference to find out exactly what is the pattern of the pulsed stator pole winds?  (such as 1 and 2 and 12 an 13 and whatever) All I know is it is "6 magnetic fields" right now and there could be lots of different ways to do that.
Also I wonder what the pulse width is both percentage of on-time to off time (duty cycle)...t also what it is in milliseconds on and off too migjht as well know both...
Thanks a million for being the go-between and translator, and say thanks to Pierre when you contact him.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 08, 2018, 03:04:15 PM
Just to make sure we are all on the same page... This information isn't secret, you know.

https://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardMega2560?setlang=en (https://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardMega2560?setlang=en)

Yes TK, I know Arduino info should be available online!    I was just making sure everyone understood I made an error in my previous message to Pierre and shared his reply which I think is better to know Pierre's way of understanding the Arduino rather then quoting specs.

Luc

BTW, here is the post "quote" I read which caused the confusion. My error was to assume this information was correct which no one else corrected until I asked Pierre.
http://overunity.com/17609/170-watts-in-1600-watts-out-looped-very-impressive-build-and-video/msg517857/#msg517857 (http://overunity.com/17609/170-watts-in-1600-watts-out-looped-very-impressive-build-and-video/msg517857/#msg517857)

post quote: Lastly, I also looked up the Arduino 2560 and it has 54 digital I/O pins, so enough to drive 36 transistors.

PmgR
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: memoryman on March 08, 2018, 03:21:21 PM
MEM: it is YOU who doesn't understand. A storage medium should NOT be needed in a true self-looped OU device.
Its presence is a red flag. There are other red flags too.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 08, 2018, 07:34:31 PM
Hi Listener
Sorry about my ignorance - but what is an "8 slot pitch" ?? Does this mean 6 poles wrapped with wire through 8 slots in existing standard wiring? Or something else???
Thanks
Konehead
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 08, 2018, 07:40:40 PM

Here is one animated GIF that show how the output coil couples back to the input coils (you will have to save the GIF file to your computer and open it with the regular windows built-in Picture and Fax viewer to see it animated)


Very interesting behavior. The back-flux generated by the output coil folds back half-half over the stator and mainly only impacts the coils that are positioned where the output coil steel meets the stator steel. As such, BEMF can be collected from those coils as a bonus. The amount that feeds back to other coils further away is very small (see the animated gifs).


Btw. I note we have no idea how the coils on the stator are actually wound and connected. Is it 36 separate coils, are some slots connected in series, parallel, if so which ones, do the coils have a center tap point, etc. What is the number of windings per slot and what is the wire gauge, etc. Basically, we need the exact configuration of the stator/coils.


Gotoluc, this is most important to get an answer to so that we can simulate the actual coil configuration.


Other things we need to know are how the relays are hooked up to the coils (and why there are two relays per coil as you could switch a coil with just one relay). I would think there are two relays per coil to completely disconnect the coils from the driving circuit and have it only connected to the two recovery PDs. Same for the two PDs. Why are there two PDs per coil? Are they in parallel to allow for larger current? Probably not as each of them has a separate wire going to it (if they were in parallel Pierre could just have connected them in parallel on the board). Most likely each coil has a center tap point that can be grounded and then there is a diode on each end of the coil to recover both the positive and negative cycle of the BEMF and feed it into the capacitor bank.


PmgR
====
Help end the persecution of Falun Gong * www.faluninfo.net (http://www.faluninfo.net) * www.stoporganharvesting.org (http://www.stoporganharvesting.org)
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 08, 2018, 08:07:43 PM
Hi Listener
Sorry about my ignorance - but what is an "8 slot pitch" ?? Does this mean 6 poles wrapped with wire through 8 slots in existing standard wiring? Or something else???
Thanks
Konehead
[/quote

Hi Konehead,

For example a coil wound through slot 1 and slot 8 then the next coil wound from slot 2 to slot 9 then 3 to 10 and so on.

This is called lap winding.

You can see looking at the stator that the coils are not wound around adjacent slots but they pass behind the next coil (lapped) then reenter the stator some number of slots further along. My estimation is an 8 slot pitch.

You need to encompass a certain amount of steel with the coil if you want to develop some meaningful flux.

Regards L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 08, 2018, 08:14:34 PM
The question of why two relays.

This is like the two transistor switch that is used commonly in industry for switching stepper coils etc. The switches or say MOSFETS only have to be voltage rated at rail for this type of switch and it will recover energy from the coil in either direction, with minimal loss.

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 08, 2018, 08:51:09 PM
Attached is a snip of the stator.

You can see that the windings are not forming adjacent coils.

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 08, 2018, 09:16:13 PM
Hi PmgR,

Those last simulations seem to be corrupt with diagonal black lines.

Thanks for checking the CEMF flux.

Regards

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 08, 2018, 10:23:42 PM
Hi PmgR,

Those last simulations seem to be corrupt with diagonal black lines.

Thanks for checking the CEMF flux.

Regards

L192
Looks like the forum has a problem with handling GIFs. It appears the file gets corrupted either during upload or download. I have zipped the gif file and re-uploaded it. Then downloaded it and it says it has a CRC error when I try and unzip it. Anyway, it still appears to work and unzips correctly.


So download the zip and extract it and then please confirm it works.


Stefan, can you look into the fact that GIF files appear to become corrupted, or maybe the forum can't handle animated GIFs?


PmgR
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 08, 2018, 10:27:41 PM
The file reports as damaged when unzipped.

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 08, 2018, 10:30:39 PM
The file reports as damaged when unzipped.

L192
Yes, the forum corrupts it. Unzip it anyway, tell it to ignore the CRC error. Then double click the GIF. You can use PowerArchiver to unzip it. It will ignore the CRC error.


Not sure how/where else to upload it.


Btw. L192 check my first animated GIF once more again as it looks that one is no longer working either. I just downloaded it and it appears corrupted as well.


PmgR

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 08, 2018, 11:15:45 PM
OK that works but runs too fast though.

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 09, 2018, 07:18:53 AM
I have regenerated the animated GIFs at a slower speed and put them together with flux plots into a zip file. Let's see if this uploads properly.



PmgR
====
Help end the persecution of Falun Gong * www.faluninfo.net * www.stoporganharvesting.org
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 09, 2018, 07:55:31 AM
Looks like that worked. Some information on the images:[/size]


Input coils are 44 windings each. Output coil is 1500 windings in my simulation (not sure what Pierre is using).



Config000_animation_delay0250.gif: this shows the flux progression when six coils are driven by a 1amp current and the coil activation is then shifted step by step over a full rotation. I have set the delay for this animation to 0.25sec, so let me know if this OK. It appears rather slow on my computer, but I might have a slow computer.


ForwardFlux.emf: this shows the flux in the output coil (6 input coils driven as mentioned before with 1amp each as above) as a function of the rotation step (36steps, 1 step = 1 coil shift)


Config000_BEMF_animation_delay0250: this shows the flux progression when the output coil is driven by 6.38mA of current (all input coils are turned off).


BEMF_Flux_OutputCoil.emf: shows the output coil flux under above drive condition of 6.38mA. The current of 6.38mA was chosen such as to exactly oppose flux caused by the 6 input coils.


BEMF_Flux_InputCoils.emf: shows the flux caused by the 6.38mA of output coil current in the various input coils (1,10,19,28.29) as a function of rotation.


The induced BEMF voltage on the input coils is proportional to -N*dflux/dt and in order to see the impact of this on the electronics we will need to know a few things:


1. Number of turns for each input coil
2. Number of turns for output coil
3. Winding configuration
4. Recovery diode configuration/schematic
5. Coil connection coil configuration/schematic
6. Dimensions of metal of stator and metal of output coil



PmgR
====
Help end the persecution of Falun Gong * www.faluninfo.net * www.stoporganharvesting.org
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 09, 2018, 08:49:14 AM
Hi PmgR,

All good perhaps a little slow now.

you are still simulating coils in adjacent slots rather than coils with a larger pitch. Whereas I agree that we dont know his exact detail, you only have to look closely at the stator to see that the coils are pitched between 6 to 8 slots. This would cause a large increase in  inductance and induced flux.

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 09, 2018, 11:19:23 AM
The question of why two relays. Why?

72 relays 36 transistors ??
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Belfior on March 09, 2018, 12:30:29 PM
The question of why two relays. Why?

72 relays 36 transistors ??

Maybe he is using them as a charge pump? Charge coil (relay), stop current, spike over a diode to a cap, repeat
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 09, 2018, 02:06:34 PM
As previously posted.

I think he is using the two relays in the same configuration as a two transistor switch (like a you get in a forward converter).

As the relay coils are isolated you only need one transistor to switch them both.

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 09, 2018, 02:26:20 PM
Oh Yes!  , "As the relay coils are isolated you only need one transistor to switch them both."
But what is the benefit of that? Two diodes with loss. (small)
The return wire (red) is relatively thick. Just a coincidence.

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 09, 2018, 03:29:04 PM
Hi Seaad,

With a single ground-referenced relay switch to drive the coil, the drawback to this approach is that the voltage stress on the switch is the sum of the bus voltage, the reflected coil voltage, and the turn-off leakage-inductance spike.
If you add a second high-side relay switch, the voltage stress reduces to the bus voltage only.

The two MOSFET switch is the only one I use when switching coils now, as the circuit is very robust however, a high side driver is required so component count goes up.

Regards

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 09, 2018, 05:00:14 PM
Hi PmgR,

All good perhaps a little slow now.

you are still simulating coils in adjacent slots rather than coils with a larger pitch. Whereas I agree that we dont know his exact detail, you only have to look closely at the stator to see that the coils are pitched between 6 to 8 slots. This would cause a large increase in  inductance and induced flux.

L192
Hi L192,


I will make the frame rate 0.1sec for the next animation.


Regarding the windings, I understand what you are saying, but let's say a winding covers slots 1-10-19-28 (9 slots in between), second winding covers slows 2-11-20-29, etc. last winding 9-18-27-36, then you would only need 9 transistors as it become as 4 pole stator with only 9 sets of windings to drive. Then why is Pierre using 36 transistors?


PmgR
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 09, 2018, 05:10:07 PM
As previously posted.

I think he is using the two relays in the same configuration as a two transistor switch (like a you get in a forward converter).

As the relay coils are isolated you only need one transistor to switch them both.

L192


Hi L192, I understand the image you posted, but it doesn't make sense with the recovery diode configuration Pierre has. In your image only one diode can go back to the voltage supply line (from bottom of coil to +5V). The second diode goes from ground to top of coil. However, in Pierre's setup, the recovery board only has a +5V connection. There is no GND cable and all 72 diodes hook back to the red capacitor bank charging connection on the output of his 4ohms resistor.


I think his windings have a center tap and he is using the two diodes as a full wave rectifier to the capacitor bank, see attached picture (replace the load resistor R by the capacitor bank and forget about the left part of the transformer in that picture. U at the left of the image would be the positive and negative BEMF that occurs over the center tapped coil). 
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 09, 2018, 05:15:41 PM
Ok L192

The return wire (red) is relatively thick. But I can't find any black "return" wire relatively thick?  (ground) And Pierre don't mention anyting about that anyhow. So the wiring have to be in another way, Or?

--> pmgr Pierre is using a FullWaweRect. Only two wires into the rectifier!

Regards / Arne
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 09, 2018, 05:18:36 PM
Hi PmgR,

Looking at his messages on  https://brfilm.net/v-100-free-energy-generator139v-1600watt-dz-generator-part-4-t1abEsE4R3U.html

I see he is saying 6 phases per rotation, so 6 coils on spaced at 60 degrees at any one time. This is how he is achieving the slow clock rate.

So 360/36 =10 degrees per slot, lets say each coil spans 6 slots or 60 degrees

Still 36 independent coils  each turning on and off using two relays, each with independent energy recovery.  The relays in the two switch configuration all tied to the same DC bus.

No series or parallel connection of coils driven by the same switch pair.

Regards

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 09, 2018, 05:55:03 PM
Pick your polarity choice.  B always blue on the right side 1 - 18.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 09, 2018, 06:07:02 PM
If you look at the end of the stator, the coils don't reenter the stator at the 3 slot point.

The wire bundles move behind and reenter further along. Now it might not be 6 but you can see its not 3.

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 09, 2018, 06:13:21 PM
L192
PLS make  a pic.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 09, 2018, 06:17:52 PM
See the attached.

 Just enlarge and look closely.

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ariovaldo on March 09, 2018, 07:35:37 PM
Something to start....God, I was rusted. lol
I still need to finish.
Also I'm thinking what I need to do with the driver. I do have an old PLC, 500. It is good start. Relay output. I lot to do..
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 09, 2018, 07:48:34 PM
Something to start....God, I was rusted. lol
I still need to finish.
Also I'm thinking what I need to do with the driver. I do have an old PLC, 500. It is good start. Relay output. I lot to do..

Wow ariovaldo, looks good!... did you rewind the stator coils?

Thanks for sharing

Luc
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ariovaldo on March 09, 2018, 07:56:09 PM
Wow ariovaldo, looks good!... did you rewind the stator coils?

Thanks for sharing

Luc


Yeap!
4 poles motor, 1:8 pitch, 2 layers, series lap. Double 30 turns windings of 20 gauge wire ( I do have another tests to do ), 7 hp motor stator.
My last one that i had done was 35 years ago....
Also, I din't have the proper nomex paper, so the stator will not be a class "F" insulation. Lol
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 09, 2018, 08:09:38 PM
L192, can you make a flattened out drawing/sketch of the 36 slots and show how the windings go.  Are you saying each coil still only occupies one slot, just that the return of that coil is shifted by 6-8 and goes over the backside of the slot?


PmgR
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 09, 2018, 08:22:45 PM

Yeap!
4 poles motor, 1:8 pitch, 2 layers, series lap. Double 30 turns windings of 20 gauge wire ( I do have another tests to do ), 7 hp motor stator.
My last one that i had done was 35 years ago....
Also, I din't have the proper nomex paper, so the stator will not be a class "F" insulation. Lol

WOW!!!  you are the most dedicated builder I have ever seen in the 10+ years I've been here. I wish you all the best as that's a lot more work to do.
I wouldn't be prepared to do so much without having more information.
Please keep us up to date and let me know if you have any questions for Pierre.
So far Konehead is the only one that has asked which I'm finding hard to believe.

Regards

Luc
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ariovaldo on March 09, 2018, 08:44:46 PM
WOW!!!  you are the most dedicated builder I have ever seen in the 10+ years I've been here. I wish you all the best as that's a lot more work to do.
I wouldn't be prepared to do so much without having more information.
Please keep us up to date and let me know if you have any questions for Pierre.
So far Konehead is the only one that has asked which I'm finding hard to believe.

Regards

Luc
Thanks.
I want to do some tests using a puse dc, rotating as a normal motor. I had used a VFD in a normal motor stator and I noticed some weirds effects when I crossed some wires with a dc load from a battery inside the stator...
I'm just trying to understand that.
Ariovaldo
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 09, 2018, 08:48:41 PM
Hi PmgR,

I believe ariovaldo has the correct scheme in the post of his 36 slot stator.

He is using a 8 slot pitch for his coils. 

Now as Pierre is using 6 phases spaced at 60 degrees, an 8 slot pitch would cause the phases to overlap which would reduce overall voltage swing, so I believe Pierre is using a 6 slot coil pitch.

If you decrease the coil pitch too much, then inductance will be reduced and hence flux level and voltage swing. 


Regards

L192

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: RoliK on March 09, 2018, 08:56:07 PM
Very well done ariovaldo!!
I think no one else is asking, because everybody knows how busy pierre must be, now.  Although he wrote in a comment that he will make a video with all details
.After that I hope we are able to make a replication.

RoliK
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 09, 2018, 09:18:37 PM
Hi Everyone
Pierre wrote me private message, and gave me the "magic numbers" how the stator windings connect!! Maybe he likes me because I am a konehead haha I don't know but here are the numbers
in the schematic jpg
I also drew up too of how they connect. The colored pattern is red black blue green yellow
Note how at 31 and 32 poles the pattern becomes "red red" as there seems to be some sort of 35 vs 36 situation going on and one extra pole appears....anyways please study this as it is direct from Pierre.
Also note he said there are 6 poles in the rotating filed, and these are NSNSNS....
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 09, 2018, 09:33:24 PM
hi all
looking at the pattern of stator connects, seems to be 6 poles pulsed, then one blank pole, then another 6, then another blank pole and another 6 around the stators like that......so makes some sense with separation of N and S of NSNSNS pattern of pulsed stators being only one blank pole...count out the pattern you see what I mean...Also you see for example 7 "red to red" connections going around stator so here again is an odd vs even situation perhaps these magic numbers he gave is reason for no lenz law appearing I don't know

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 09, 2018, 10:00:07 PM
Hi Konehead,

Pretty much what I had deduced over the last few days. Thanks for getting the information.

If I can find a 36 slot stator DWG file I will also model this in FEMM.

I think we have already seen from the simulation that PmgR has done, that when the stator coil flux is out of alignment with the rotor, i.e.the flux enters at an angle, the counter flux due to the load  is directed mainly straight into the stator, which indicates that there will be a phase difference between the energizing flux and the counter flux. This implies a lower level of cancellation due to CEMF.

I have a burnt out 3 phase 2 pole generator coming my way next week, so I will also be able to replicate exactly, (if the stator has 36 slots!).

Regards

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ariovaldo on March 09, 2018, 10:36:26 PM
I'm done. Thanks
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 09, 2018, 11:08:13 PM
Thanks for sharing Konehead

From the below pic I took of Pierre's first video you can see the motor stator part number: 36A01W462
Which is from a Baldor 5HP 2850 RPM 50Hz 3Phase Motor, Volts 208/360/415, AMPs 13.2/7.6/6
Baldor motor PDF: https://www.baldorvip.com/servlet/productInfoPacket/M3613T-50.pdf (https://www.baldorvip.com/servlet/productInfoPacket/M3613T-50.pdf)

Question to anyone that knows: has Pierre mention anywhere if he rewound his stator?

Luc
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 09, 2018, 11:53:06 PM
Gentlemen,


Sorry folks, but if the schematic that Konehead provides is a true accurate account from the source, somethings not right, the statement at the bottom, the drawing, and the number sequence paint a very different picture than the one that you all are discussing... and agreeing on!  WTF folk!


there are:


7 coils per group NOT 6!!!
5 poles per coil
6 slots per coil


example....


red group.....numbers refer to slots....


1-6, 6-11, 11-16, 16-21, 21-26, 26-31, 1-32 = 7 coils!!!


Konehead himself noticed the gap in the coils, but did not notice that the total number is 7.  This is important because it means two coils will have the same magnetic orientation at the gap, a point in the magnetic circuit where we find a coincident pole.  That said, inside the alternating field, focused at one single pole, the magnetic field bucks....  That changes things, everything... especially when you consider there are 5 phases (not 6...  72° magic number...)....  rotating field....can you see what's rotating...


some are jumping the gun too quickly.....  Its unfortunate that I am the first to see this, those who have started building are for the lack of a more professional way of stating this....FUCKED... 


The thought that was invested in the 5 fold symmetry, and its use in forcing a non linear relation within the magnetic circuit leads me to suspect that this guy is way more clever than the folk trying to figure out what he is up to.......LOL

Here's the fucked up part....  I caught this, but I am not going to get the credit for it....



Regards
Erfinder, I believe you are correct. Also Koneheads upper left drawing seems to be messed up in terms of colors and connections (?). E.g. the 26-31 connection should be red, the 27-32 connection should be black, 28-33 should be blue, 29-34 should be green, 30 to 35 should be yellow.


Then going from the upper left corner to the upper right corner, red 36 should get connected to yellow 5, black 32 to to red 1, blue 33 to black 2, green 34 to blue 3 and yellow 35 to green 4.


Anyway, using the magic numbers, there are 7x5=35 contact points which makes sense with why his transistor board is arranged in a 5x7 transistor layout (yet two more transistors appear to have been added later on and transistor 35 never goes on as stated before.


Maybe connection 36 is a relay for a ground connection?


A bit confused now. Let me know what I should model next....


PmgR
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 10, 2018, 05:00:18 AM
We are over-complicating things (excuse the pleonasm). I think L192 was correct from the start. There are 6 poles, NSNSNS and they span the 36 slots. Each of the windings spans 6 slots.


Then there are 3 phases, each phase firing up two coils for a total of six coils (hence also the six blue LEDs that light up in 3 pairs of 2 at a time).


First coils has windings near slot 1 and slot 6: magic number 1-6
Second coil has its windings near slot 2 and slot 7: magic number 2-7 
Third coil has its windings near slot 3 and slot 8: magic number 3-8
etc.
Coil 36 (last coil) has its windings near slot 36 and slot 5: magic number 36-5


Each magic set is biased 180deg out of phase with the previous set.


This will create six poles N-S-N-S-N-S.


Then stepping through the poles will provide the spinning field.


Attached is a quick simulation of the field. Will run a full rotation shortly and make an animated GIF.



PmgR
====
* Truthfulness * Compassion * Forbearance * www.falundafa.org (http://www.falundafa.org)
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 10, 2018, 05:18:58 AM
Here are two simulations (2 different speeds: 0.075sec framerate and 0.125sec framerate, please provide feedback which delay works best for you). Hopefully they will upload correctly...


Interesting thing to see from the simulation is that when a N-pole and a S-pole face each other through the center coil, they prefer to directly fold back on themselves through the stator instead of going through the center coil (see attached image). Also note the clearly distinguishable 6 poles with each pole switching its field direction (SNSNSN).

Edit: looks like the upload is still not working. Find a zip file attached instead. Unzip with powerarchiver and ignore any CRC errors.


PmgR
====
* Truthfulness * Compassion * Forbearance * www.falundafa.org (http://www.falundafa.org)
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 10, 2018, 06:41:05 AM
Hi all
Pierre is watching discussion here and that is why he sent me the magic numbers list I think so anyways as some were going in other direction in ideas how it works and Pierre wanted to get everyone on right path of what he does
Maybe some other methods will work you will only know by bench testing but as far as what it is that Pierre - did that is in His magic number list.
Pierre did not do the colored wire connections I did that and like erfindef noticed it gets fucked up around th 31 to 32 slots  - sorry I would write "poles" instead of slots- and i am glad i did those colored connections as it really sheds light on the sator connection pattern being not so logical and predictable instead it gets fucked up around pkles 31 32 and note how tbe color pattern must change just tbere at upper lef as erfinder noticedt
This is "how it is" according to magic numbers provided. Pierre is trying to help understanding this is good ....now I wonder if stator of stock 3ph motor needs to be rewound like this or not.
Pierre states 6  magnetic fields rotate co that is th nsnsns 6 pole sequentially pulsing going on. I dot think the rotating pulsed field is done in three phase it is 6 poles nsnsns spinning around this Pierre wrote so take his word for it eh

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 10, 2018, 09:22:39 AM
Hi Erfinder
Just to clear up things, here is the exact message I got from Pierre:

"hello, the magic numbers are 1-6,2-7,3-8,4-9,5-10,6-11,7-12,8-13,9-14,10-15,11-16, 12-17,13-18,14-19,15-20,16-21,17-22,18-23,19-24,20-25,21-26,22-27,23-28,24- 29,25-30,26-31,27-32,28-33,29-34,30-35,31-36,32-1,33-2,34-3,35-4,36-5 this is not 3 north or south pole, there are 6 pole 3 north and 3 south alternately you should review the magnetic field simulation it will never work with your configuration"

I edited out the last sentence, since it is confusing the translation, )as the magnetic field simulation posted on the board, is not "my" (yours) configuration but rather others idea.  Substitute the word "that" with "your" in his statement and it makes sense .......he is saying that magnetic field simulation will not work, and I should "review" it....by reviewing it, I think he means to take another look at it, its will not work!
Also note Pierre says "this is not 3 north or south pole".... "like first simulation....
Anyways it is important to note there are TWO things being described - first is the stator wiring connections and how that is done.....so I had sent him that simple 36 pole drawing I did earilier, with no connections just 1 to 36 poles" labeled around it, and I asked him when looking at that drawing, what are the corresponding numbers on how the stators connect???
So Pierre answered that question plain as day - and he gave the magic numbers and this is how the stator wiring connects.......
Now the other thing we are looking at is just how is that rotating sequentially pulsed field pulsed, in what pattern/shape is it?   What polarities? 
Now here, Pierre has already explained on video it is 6 magnetic fields rotating....
So now we know from this message that it is a 6 pole magnetic field, and these poles are configured NSNSNS since he says NS alternatively....
So now it seems you need to send a pulse in through #1 and out #6 (as example)....then go over to the other side of stator, and send a pulse through (in opposite polarity than 1 and 6) and figure out which wires are exactly 180 degrees across, and that is one of the three pulses going into the stators, that rotates....now just go over 60 degrees do the next position, send in power one way on one side and opposite way on other, then go over again 60 degrees again and do it all again there....so this will complete just one pulse of the rotating field, now it is just matter of doing it all around the stator timed to create the sequentially pulsed rotating field....I will "assume" it goes one pole position at a time for 36 pulses per revolution but maybe only 35? considering how the stator wiring pattern goes out of logic around poles 31 and 32 but who knows maybe this is common way 3ph AC motors connect their wiring I  don't know.
Anyways I know Pierre does not want to give out his email or his phone number and I am sure Skype too, you can imagine how he would be besieged and he also works day job 60hr weeks too Luc said as well....
I think on his youtube comments section is best place to contact him, since he is in control there, it is his video and he has no pressure there and for example the  intense scrutiny he would get here....but still he is watching, so that is good and he wants us to know how it works too which is also good you can also imagine how difficult it would be to explain to everyone (at least 1000 wuestions to answer and half of people will not understand and have it backwards or whatever) I hope my drawing helped a little bit and saved him some time....
So anyways, I just read again your questions Erfinder......I think you might be a bit confused in what his description is - and like explained here the magic numbers correspond to the stator windings....the "NSNSNS" 6pole thing corresponds to the rotating field pulsoing....
Also don't worry if I get anymore info I will post it....you should review the comments in his youtube videos and see what he says when he replies to people to get some more info too.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 10, 2018, 09:33:54 AM
Hi Erfinder
Just thought about it all again, and I am "pretty sure" the 6 poles Pierre talks about is not how the stators connect!
This is the pattern of the pulsed rotating field.....but I might be wrong about that!!

However,  because in video he says there is "six magnetic fields rotating" I will assume and I hope correctly the 6 poles refer to the NSNSNS pulsing and rotating field pattern pulsed INTO the stator windings....(not the stator windings themselves being "6 pole NSNSNS" - only that they are pulsed like that)
konehead
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 10, 2018, 09:50:36 AM
Hi Erfinder
Just thought about it all again, and I am "pretty sure" the 6 poles Pierre talks about is not how the stators connect!
This is the pattern of the pulsed rotating field.....but I might be wrong about that!!

However,  because in video he says there is "six magnetic fields rotating" I will assume and I hope correctly the 6 poles refer to the NSNSNS pulsing and rotating field pattern pulsed INTO the stator windings....(not the stator windings themselves being "6 pole NSNSNS" - only that they are pulsed like that)
konehead
Konehead, you are correct. It's the drive sequence, not the connections. This is how I did the last set of simulations as well and they give exactly what Pierre says: 6 poles with SNSNSN orientation.


PmgR
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 10, 2018, 09:53:16 AM
Attached is a diagram showing the start point for NSNS operation.

Each of the 36 coils has a controlling transistor and ON/OFF relay.

There are two coil groups x3 North & x3 South each consisting of 6 coils. Each coil has a Polarity Reversal relay which is controlled by the additional transistor (37).

A N or S pole can move in sequence by turning on one of the 6 coils. When the last coil is reached the next set of 6 coils is then used but the coil group polarity is reversed to keep the same pole polarity (either N or S). 

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 10, 2018, 10:00:11 AM
In this diagram I have marked the first 6 coils, to show the progression of switching.

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 10, 2018, 10:02:55 AM
Hi Erfinder
Yes why only two pole fixed-rotor pickup winds? Three would be better...Pierre knows this, as my friend and ace engineer Gary Porter "Skipper by the sea" mentioned this to him in one of his youtube videos, in comments section, and Pierre replied saying yes that is correct three pole fixed rotor would create more power and Pierre says he is in process of improving everything and Pierre was also talking about making "flat-bar" shaped fixed-rotor too, instead of the round shaped existing fixed-rotor that he winds circular winds around....I think these comments form Pierre to Skipper is in part two video on youtube.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 10, 2018, 10:02:56 AM
[/font][/size]
the question I ask is why 6 poles when there's only a two pole pickup assembly......  its like the bulk of the field will have very little impact...that's been my experience when dealing with such matters....


The relays have limited speed. For one rotation you need to trigger 36(x2) relays before the pattern repeats. If you have a stator with 2n poles, you only need to trigger 36/n relays before the pattern repeats. So for 6 poles (n=3) you are basically effectively increasing your switching frequency by a factor of 3 without having to get relays that can go three times faster.


PmgR
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 10, 2018, 11:09:31 AM
See attached.

If you have 6 poles, each coil pitch over 3 slots then you end up with an asymmetric flux.

If you use 3 poles, each coil pitch over 6 slots then you end up with symmetrical flux. The scheme is possible using H bridges instead of relays as you can then just increase the clock rate.

So it seems Pierre, restrained by the relay switching rate, just spread the 6 pole sequence beyond 360 degrees, to achieve symmetry.

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 10, 2018, 05:58:42 PM
The attached is a dual H bridge board based on the L298N. 2A per bridge up to 46VDC. Offers a current sense output that might be useful.

So x18 of these would be required. This may be the cheapest way rather than building boards with MOSFETS. Various suppliers on ebay. Also save time.

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 10, 2018, 06:15:31 PM
I should have mentioned.

The board will interface directly with the 2560 Arduino.

The board has recovery diodes, so just connect to the cap bank.

l192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: cheors on March 10, 2018, 08:17:23 PM
Yes, these boards could be very useful.

https://i62.servimg.com/u/f62/18/62/17/81/dzgene10.jpg (https://i62.servimg.com/u/f62/18/62/17/81/dzgene10.jpg)
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 11, 2018, 10:35:28 AM
Hi Everyone
My friend and ace engineer "Skipperbythesea" just made a drawing and graph showing how to sequentially pulse that 360 degree field rotation, now knowing it is 6 poles NSNSNS rotating sequentially...he did this in relation to the "magic numbers" winding pattern that Pierre gave too....so this is in attachment...

Also, another friend made some contact with a factory-owner who does a lot of motor rewinding and "free energy motor" building and testing too and this guy was overjoyed with that magic numbers winding pattern and says it saturates and will work better than anything he has seen (not his exact words but he really liked it)....

Important to note:  this factory owner says there are multiple wires per slot and there is much overlapping going on, and also separate phase wires side by side in the slots!!

So this has me thinking, that pattern I drew out with the colored lines, like everyone notices, when it reached poles 31 and 32 suddenly the pattern stops, and it becomes "red red" right next to one another, and not red-red spaced out the 6 poles distance, like it was in the previous 6 (?) phases
(total of 7 red-red phases if you count)

So what I think is this pattern CONTINUES around....and the way it suddenly goes out of "linear logic" at poles 31 and 32 is where it starts its "staggered" overlapping pattern of phases!....so continue this magic number pattern around again in another revolution of the 36 poles and slots....then do it again, and again and again.....eventually there will be multiple wires in each slot...

Does anyone know how many wires there are within each slot?????  I will guess 5 or 6 but do not know...
If we know that, we will know how many "rotations" of that magic number windings pattern there are....looks to me now this stator is re-wound as I doubt motor manufacturers would do crazy patterns like this, but maybe so.......


Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 11, 2018, 11:25:40 AM
Does anyone know how many wires there are within each slot? ??? ?  I will guess 5 or 6 but do not know...
If we know that, we will know how many "rotations" of that magic number windings pattern there are....looks to me now this stator is re-wound as I doubt motor manufacturers would do crazy patterns like this, but maybe so.......

Hi Doug, thanks for the update.
I asked the same question here:  http://overunity.com/17609/170-watts-in-1600-watts-out-looped-very-impressive-build-and-video/msg518079/#msg518079
I found the motor Pierre's stator is from and was wondering if he cut and tapped in to the existing windings?
I'll send him that question and a few others I received,

Luc
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 11, 2018, 11:28:24 AM
  It is possible using H bridges instead of relays as you can then just increase the clock rate.
So it seems Pierre, restrained by the relay switching rate,
L192

Now you have to consider that you have to use some ferrite core material instead of iron.
You can't just pick an ordinary genny stator!

Even in Pierres case, the stator have to handle the fast rising and falling pulses.

The picture below shows a way to recover, reusing Power from a/ the previous input stator coil(s). (About 80-90% total loop)

Regards / Arne
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 11, 2018, 11:43:36 AM
Hi Luc
thanks and please send him that diagram I just posted, with Skipperbythsea's sequentially pulsed method and see if he gives that his OK....
Also can you ask if the magic numbers pattern "continues around" (and around) so that the multiple wires within a slot become wires from the 5 different phases (red black blue green yellow in my drawing)
thanks again
konehead
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 11, 2018, 12:07:08 PM
What's stopping the supply from charging your recovery capacitors among other things.....? 
Regards

When running, the feed back loop voltage is higher than the voltage from battery after first diode at some time intervals.
R / Arne
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: cheors on March 11, 2018, 12:32:21 PM
Detail how L298 module could be used :

https://i62.servimg.com/u/f62/18/62/17/81/dzgene13.jpg (https://i62.servimg.com/u/f62/18/62/17/81/dzgene13.jpg)
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 11, 2018, 01:12:28 PM
The coil switching conditions are similar to that in a switched reluctance motor.
In the situation where coil inductance is reduced i.e. not in registration with the rotor, usually current has to be limited particularly at low RPM.
As this generator runs at a fixed Phase RPM current limiting is not necessary, as currently operated.

No doubt there is energy wasted due to large angle over which the stator coils are not in registration with the fixed rotor, that can only really be mitigated by more rotor poles.

I think for an initial experimental build, the recovery that an H bridge provides is OK.

I believe Pierre is running the coils at a conservative voltage/current and I would imagine the current waveform is a typical sawtooth, with some variation for the coils in registration with the fixed rotor.

A faster rise time current waveform may be obtained by increasing the applied voltage. Current limit still to be observed though for the switch devices.

One interesting way for this to be achieved is to feed the cap bank to the switching devices rail and a smaller value cap via a suitable fast power diode.

The smaller value cap isolated by the diode, will develop a voltage larger than the supply rail due to the large recovery voltage spikes and the fast charge rate of the smaller cap.
This will help reduce the coil current  rise time. Now when you do this, you have to ensure your switching devices voltage rating will be adequate.

I have attached a scope shot (taken on an old digital scope), illustrating the effect of the higher voltage on a particular type of switched reluctance motor. Note the very fast current rise time in red and the resulting flux waveform in yellow (in this case saturating).

L192
 
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 11, 2018, 01:16:49 PM
Apologies I have done it again and I still cant find a way to delete the attachment.
L192

OK fixed it!
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 11, 2018, 02:10:31 PM
No doubt there is energy wasted due to large angle over which the stator coils are not in registration with the fixed rotor, that can only really be mitigated by more rotor poles.
L192
When primary field not in registration with the fixed rotor. Why keep on making a rotating field there in that stator sector (no-man's-land
) at all ?? With one fixed rotor. (Six poles !!)
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 11, 2018, 02:16:14 PM
Attached is an old circuit that I used on special type of switched reluctance motor.
It illustrates my previous post.

Note: I would only use MOSFET's these days not IGBT's as shown.

MOSFET's are far more robust for experimentation.

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 11, 2018, 02:25:13 PM
Hi Seead,

The energy would be wasted in the top and bottom coils i.e. at 90 degrees to the fixed rotor.

Better to use a 4 pole fixed rotor than turn any coils off.

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 11, 2018, 03:30:58 PM
You need a shoehorn.   :D
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: AlienGrey on March 11, 2018, 03:56:30 PM
Now you have to consider that you have to use some ferrite core material instead of iron.
You can't just pick an ordinary genny stator!

Even in Pierres case, the stator have to handle the fast rising and falling pulses.

The picture below shows a way to recover, reusing Power from a/ the previous input stator coil(s). (About 80-90% total loop)

Regards / Arne
It might be a silly question but why are L6 and L7 have shorting out resisters when they are load coils and yet are fed fron no where ?
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 11, 2018, 04:31:12 PM
Sent the below PM (in French) to Pierre

Hi Pierre,

Hope the private messages from the Overunity forum have reduced?
Konehead has posted a new schematic of the energizing sequence of the stator coils.
Can you confirm if he has the right coil firring sequence from this link: http://overunity.com/17609/170-watts-in-1600-watts-out-looped-very-impressive-build-and-video/msg518119/#msg518119 (http://overunity.com/17609/170-watts-in-1600-watts-out-looped-very-impressive-build-and-video/msg518119/#msg518119)
He also wants to know if the sequence is exactly repeated every 360 degrees?
We are all trying to understand why you have (double) 72 relays and diodes but the stator has 36 coils.
How does 72 relays and diodes get connected to 36 coils? can you hand draw a simple schematic, take a picture of it and send me the link to download?
I would also like to know if you rewound the stator coils or did you cut into the manufacture stock windings to make your connections?

Thank you for your help and time

Regards

Luc
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 11, 2018, 05:05:31 PM
Hi Gotoluc,

Also we need to know the number of turns in the coils and the wire gauge.

Regards
L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 11, 2018, 05:15:58 PM
It might be a silly question but why are L6 and L7 have shorting out resisters when they are load coils and yet are fed fron no where ?


They are fed from L1, L2. See the red output pulse above the two first (time) pulses. Just a simple principle diagram.
R / Arne
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 11, 2018, 06:28:26 PM
Hi Luc
Thanks for being go-between and translator for Pierre....
Can you ask is does the pulsing come in every 10 degrees?
Or is it perhaps every 30 degrees or 20 degrees?
How many wires are within a single slot would be great to know....
thanks again
Kone




 
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 11, 2018, 08:47:33 PM
Just realised that those L298N boards have a 35V DC input restriction even though the L298N is rated up to 46V DC.
This seems to be due to the 5V regulator they have on the board and associated cap rating.

The 26V AC input will be FWBR to about 36V DC, so too close to the mark.

This is a real pain as I found a source that could supply 18 pcs for 25 GBP or 35 USD for 20 pcs.

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gyulasun on March 11, 2018, 09:13:50 PM
Hi L192,

You could lift up the input pin of the 5V regulator IC from the board and then reconnect it via a series 12V (or 15V) Zener diode.
This way the Zener would take up the difference of the 46V and the 35V, so the input voltage to the 5V regulator may stay within safe limit.
Regarding the voltage ratings of the associated capacitors, they could be replaced with higher voltage rated caps.

The power dissipation for the Zener should be considered, maybe 3 pieces of 4.7V or 5.2V Zeners in series could ease the individual dissipations. OR a series pass transistor that would feed the input pin of the 5V regulator could be used if needed (this may sound as an overkill though).

Gyula
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 11, 2018, 09:26:43 PM
A simple test with consecutive pulses.
You can see the similarities in my Reply #137, left pic.. One magnet passing by.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: cheors on March 11, 2018, 10:17:46 PM
My simulation with an Arduino Nano :

https://youtu.be/PdIgM_uE73Y (https://youtu.be/PdIgM_uE73Y)
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 11, 2018, 10:39:30 PM
Hi L192,

You could lift up the input pin of the 5V regulator IC from the board and then reconnect it via a series 12V (or 15V) Zener diode.
This way the Zener would take up the difference of the 46V and the 35V, so the input voltage to the 5V regulator may stay within safe limit.
Regarding the voltage ratings of the associated capacitors, they could be replaced with higher voltage rated caps.

The power dissipation for the Zener should be considered, maybe 3 pieces of 4.7V or 5.2V Zeners in series could ease the individual dissipations. OR a series pass transistor that would feed the input pin of the 5V regulator could be used if needed (this may sound as an overkill though).

Gyula

Hi Gyulasun,

Further investigation, has revealed that there are two styles of L298N board, one red PCB and one green PCB.

Both let you bypass the on board 78m05 regulator with external +5v.

One 35V cap is across +5V rail. The green board doesn't have the 2nd 35V cap across VCC.

The green board would be ideal however they are more expensive probably as they also have LED's across the coil drives.

I think I will stick with the red boards and just remove the VCC cap and feed external +5V to power the L298N.

Regards

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 12, 2018, 04:18:57 AM
The below is Pierre's reply I translated to English
If you find there are unanswered questions please let me know asap.



I use 6 poles, nsnsns but maybe a 2, 3 or 4 poles could worked? I don't know, as I haven't built or tested it.
The firring sequence konehead has shared seems correct. Every pair of numbers that I gave him is a coil which intertwines and are all connected in series.
I would of liked to add more coils if the stator had more slot, because I would of liked a wave in the form of stairs so the steps would be smaller between each pulse, which could of produced a nicer curve like a magnet passing a coil which makes current wave as pic 1 (left) and (right) is a standard step alternating current curve which I would of liked but my generator is not yet ideal.
At first glance it seems to work but with only a portion of the curve I wanted to produce (pic 2)
The peaks have a lot of Fluctuations, some are higher then others.
Possibly some relays don't open at the exact time. Just a few milliseconds can make a difference. Maybe variation in induction from one coil to another plays part?  probably my winding skills are to blame?  it's a stroke of luck to get it all right.
I was surprised of the result. Still I don't yet fully understand what I built.
All I know is that I was able to get some extra voltage. However, it's not useful if I don't understand the generators principle! At this time I'm trying to solve this problem.

A little less then a year ago I started to study magnetic field phenomenons but I'm far from being an expert on the subject. There's still a lot to improve to achieve something functional and reliable.
As you know, my work takes most of my time during the week, so I don't have much time left to experiment.

About the sequence of the arduino, when one coil is powered on the next coil will also be powered on before the previous is turned off (overlap) otherwise you will break the magnetic field. The goal is not to turn off the magnetic stream, you only want to keep it moving.  Switching example: 1 on, 2 on, 1 off, 3 on, 2 off etc.
The flyback diodes are connected to each coil but there's probably simple ways to do it?
I wanted to regulate the input power with another arduino but I was too eager to test my device so I directly connected it without input control. Maybe I could of reduced the input power but how much I do not know.
I don't know if you noticed the super capacitors can handle up to 48 volts. I only used 26volts but because of the problems I encountered.  I prefer to wait to test higher voltage on the next prototype.
Don't hesitate to take the initiative if you can improve the dz generator. It's still in developing stage and there's probably many things I haven't thought of that can be improved.
If we work together we will eventually find the ideal solution.

Thank you

Pierre
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Mem on March 12, 2018, 07:00:48 AM
Luc, It must have been the purity of Pierre's heart that he was able to do this extraordinary accomplishment. He is so humble with a great humility as he simply states how little he understands about the circuit that he built, which works beautifully.  Without a question he knows much more than he admits, which is an amazing demonstration of humility.
Just think, most man would have a mile high ego of selfishness claiming what a  profound breakthrough they have achieved.


Pierre has shared all the vital information that anyone who understands  all the steps will successfully be abler to replicate it his discovery.
Most people got the bits and pieces how  micro chip programming, relays or stator coil arrangements works, etc, etc... But, if it wasn't Pierre's
disclosure of his coil arraignments again no body would have a clue.  And thanks to Kone that what he freely received "The magic numbers" from Pierre and he freely shared.


Selfishness consumes mans fortune and his life! I remember well when I attended one of Stand Mayer's  demonstration in Ohio, I thinks it was around year 1993 he was a very proud man with his accomplishment! Generating HHO gas from water and powering a car.


After 25 years later I still remember clearly when he said: What I have accomplished no other man can do this! He was a religious "man too" He also mentioned that this was a gift from God that was given to him but he was not interested to shared the formula with rest of the world at all. He was only interested  to get the praise and attention of everyone that attended to his demo meetings.


Imagine where human raise would be today if Nicola Tesla didn't shared his secret discovery of AC and induction motors and generators?   


Well, how many inventors we have seen so far that come and go with their small or big accomplishments that they are totally forgotten because they took their secrets with them? 
   
I really think: Pierre is truly deserves a Nobal prizes, not only with his discovery in the fields of physics for self powered perpetual usable electric generator!
but also with his disclosure of profound achievement  with a great humility that his discovery will benefit mankind as long as human race will needs and use electricity.
   
 
 
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 12, 2018, 11:09:57 AM
Hi Luc
THANKS!
This quote from Pierre I am not sure what he means can you ask him to explain a bit more?

"Every pair of numbers that I gave him is a coil which intertwines and are all connected in series."

So not sure what he means by "intertwines" ??
And all are connected in series???
I hate to say it but now this makes me think of my already-abandoned wild "konehead" theory I gave out a couple days ago,   in which  the coils in stator frame all connect together (in series) and that magic number pattern "continues" around and around and finally stops whenever the final number of wires in each slot is reached? And because of the staggered phases (again I mention in my drawing poles 31 to 32 "red red" next to one another, not spaced 6 apart) and this creates an "intertwining" (???) of the coils, for example now there is red, black, blue, green,yellow coil winds all within same slots??? (so 5 wires per coil if this is true)

I doubt all this, but "maybe".....please ask Pierre how far off in space I am about this...

It would be good to know still how many wires are in each slot" So there is another question for him

That is very nice to know about the overlap in timing of the stator coils and he does not ever want the magnetic field to "stop"  .....this is something very unique - I think so anyways - and something that nobody has realized until Pierre just wrote this...

it becomes like a permanent magnet field rotating, and not like a pulsed field, and no lenz law happens like it would with permanent magnets since there is no rotor to brake (!)

Anyways, can you ask what exactly is meant by "intertwined" and does that mean only the other S poles and N poles each 60 degrees apart intertwind perhaps (I don't know)?

Also what does he mean by connected in series?? What is in series to what more or less??

Thanks again Luc
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 12, 2018, 01:29:54 PM
Hi Konehead,

Does Pierre mean 3 poles pairs (6 poles) or 6 pole pairs (twelve poles)?

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 12, 2018, 02:23:36 PM
Hi L92
He says six rotating fields in video, then said 6 poles 3 N 3S alternating in magic numbers reply, so must be six poles however he says that there is "overlap" in the "series" coils timing and so you could almost say it is 12 since that overlap "between" almost could be counted as double the number....
Looks like he connects the stator coils in series too such as all one long string of them all the way around then there is a sequence one on, both on, next one on.... however not sure about this - but his circuit drawing shows something like this going on...
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 12, 2018, 04:04:59 PM
Hi Konehead,

If you wire all the norths in series and all the souths in series then you only need 12 switches, so you would have to wind 2 more coil sets over 2 more rotations to use all 36 switches.

It makes no sense to me, why you would repeat the same scheme just with a slot offset?

Also the stator looks like it has only has 2 wire bundles per slot?

Each coil must have a reasonable number of turns to achieve viable flux linkage.

Regards

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 12, 2018, 04:34:53 PM
Just to be clear. The coils are not powered in Series. They may look in series looking at the schematic he made but the switch (relay) keeps the coils separate.

I chose the word intertwined but a more direct translation wold be interlaced (EN) from the word entrelasse (FR) if that helps? the below is Pierre French text.

oui votre séquence semble correct chaque paire de chiffre que je vous ai donner est une bobine qui s'entrelasse tous relier en série

Let me know it that helps

Luc
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 12, 2018, 04:45:20 PM
Hi Gotoluc,

Ok that makes sense.

Intertwined probably just means lapped, in this case 2 wire bundles in each slot.

The number of turns of each coil would be useful information, as well as wire gauge (looks like 20AWG or 0.8mm)

Regards

L192

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 12, 2018, 04:53:06 PM
Hi Luc
From the drawing Pierre did of how he switches his coils, and the description he gave, it seems the coils are connected in series, but they are not pulsed together in a series connection (hope that makes sense I think it does).....but to confuse more, there is a "series" sequential rotation to them (one after the other with overlapping time period too)  words are hard to make things clear sometimes!
Intertwined or interlaced both similar words ..... but what I think he is trying to say (maybe) is the coils are all connected together (in series) but not pulsed in series....just as that diagram shows he drew....
I am sure if I stuck that the French you just posted into translator program it will just make it more confusing you do a very great job with translating....
konehead
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 12, 2018, 05:16:32 PM
I am sure if I stuck that the French you just posted into translator program it will just make it more confusing you do a very great job with translating....
konehead

Thanks konehead
I think it would be even more confusing to use a google translation of Pierre's French text. Give it a try
:D

Google Translation
hello, yes your sequence seems correct every pair of numbers that I gave you is a coil that intertwines all connect in series I would like to put more coil if I had more slot of the stator because I wanted to make a graph in the form of stairs and more steps would have been small between each pulse it could have made a nice curve like a magnet passing in front of a coil to make the current (see photo 1) left standard alternating current wave and right curve that I wanted to get but as you know my system does not work as I want it yes it seems to work at first glance but in part only the curve I wanted only works on some portion (see photos 2) and I got several peaks very high and a lot of Fluctuation is what is due to my craft winding, relays that does not open at the right time a few milliseconds can make the difference, the induction of a reel to another ?? or a stroke of luck myself I was surprised at the result, actually for the moment I do not know I'm trying to understand what I made all I know is that I got a can of voltage .but not usable if I can not understand the principle of the generator dz for the moment I try to solve this problem, for which of the 6 poles I use 6 nsnsns but maybe 2 -3-4 poles could have worked I do not know I did not test I started to study the magnetic field phenomenon there is a little less than a year and I am far from an expert a this subject for the moment there is a lot of work to arrive at something viable and functional and with my work I do not have much time in a week to do experiments. as for the sequence of the arduino when you will do the sequence you will have to turn on one coil and then the other and eventually turn off the first one otherwise you will cut the magnetic field the goal being not to turn off the stream only move it ex: 1 on, 2 on, 1 off, 3 on, 2 off etc. for which of the diodes back it was installed directly on the reels but there are probably ways to do it more simply I wanted to manage the power with another arduino but I was eager to test my device and finally I connect it directly without control it would have reduced the consumption to enter the how much I do not know, I do not know if you noticed but the supercapacitor was designed to rise up to 48 volts and I only 26volts injected but saw the problem meet I liked better wait for the next prototype, do not hesitate to take the initiative if you can improve things made it the generator dz is still developing there are probably something that my escape but has several we will eventually find the solution thank you.
for who's pictures I'm not able to send them to you he talks about moderator and anyway I think my photos are too heavy

My translation
I use 6 poles, nsnsns but maybe a 2, 3 or 4 poles could worked? I don't know, as I haven't built or tested it.
The firring sequence konehead has shared seems correct. Every pair of numbers that I gave him is a coil which intertwines and are all connected in series.
I would of liked to add more coils if the stator had more slot, because I would of liked a wave in the form of stairs so the steps would be smaller between each pulse, which could of produced a nicer curve like a magnet passing a coil which makes current wave as pic 1 (left) and (right) is a standard step alternating current curve which I would of liked but my generator is not yet ideal.
At first glance it seems to work but with only a portion of the curve I wanted to produce (pic 2)
The peaks have a lot of Fluctuations, some are higher then others.
Possibly some relays don't open at the exact time. Just a few milliseconds can make a difference. Maybe variation in induction from one coil to another plays part?  probably my winding skills are to blame?  it's a stroke of luck to get it all right.
I was surprised of the result. Still I don't yet fully understand what I built.
All I know is that I was able to get some extra voltage. However, it's not useful if I don't understand the generators principle! At this time I'm trying to solve this problem.
A little less then a year ago I started to study magnetic field phenomenons but I'm far from being an expert on the subject. There's still a lot to improve to achieve something functional and reliable.
As you know, my work takes most of my time during the week, so I don't have much time left to experiment.
About the sequence of the arduino, when one coil is powered on the next coil will also be powered on before the previous is turned off (overlap) otherwise you will break the magnetic field. The goal is not to turn off the magnetic stream, you only want to keep it moving.  Switching example: 1 on, 2 on, 1 off, 3 on, 2 off etc.
The flyback diodes are connected to each coil but there's probably simple ways to do it?
I wanted to regulate the input power with another arduino but I was too eager to test my device so I directly connected it without input control. Maybe I could of reduced the input power but how much I do not know.
I don't know if you noticed the super capacitors can handle up to 48 volts. I only used 26volts but because of the problems I encountered.  I prefer to wait to test higher voltage on the next prototype.
Don't hesitate to take the initiative if you can improve the dz generator. It's still in developing stage and there's probably many things I haven't thought of that can be improved.
If we work together we will eventually find the ideal solution.

His original French text
bonjour ,oui votre séquence semble correct chaque paire de chiffre que je vous ai donner est une bobine qui s'entrelasse tous relier en série  j'aurait aimer mettre plus de bobine si j'aurait eu plus de fente du stator car je voulait faire un graphique en forme d'escalier et plus les pas aurait été petit entre chaque pulsation  cela aurait pu faire une belle courbe comme une aimant passant devant une bobine pour faire du courant (voir photo 1) a gauche onde courant alternatif standard et a droit la courbe que je voulait obtenir  mais comme vous le savez mon system ne fonctionne pas encore comme je le veut oui ca semble fonctionner a première vue mais en partie seulement la courbe que je désirait  fonctionne seulement sur quelque portion ( voir photos 2) et j'ai obtenue plusieurs  pointe très haute et beaucoup de Fluctuation est ce que c'est du a mon bobinage artisanal ,les relais qui ne s'ouvre pas au bon moment quelque milliseconde peuvent  faire la différence  ,l'induction d'une bobine a l'autre ?? ou bien un coup de chance moi même j'ai été surpris du résultat , en fait pour le moment j'en sait rien je tente de comprendre  ce que j'ai fabriquer tout ce que je sait c'est que j'ai obtenue un peut de voltage .mais inutilisable si je n'arrive pas a comprendre le principe du dz générateur pour le moment je tente de régler  ce problème, pour de qui est des 6 pôles moi j'en ai utiliser 6 nsnsns mais peut-être que 2-3-4 pôles aurait pu fonctionner je ne sait pas je ne l'ai pas tester j'ai commencé a étudier le phénomènes des champ magnétique il y a un peut moins d'un an et je suis loin d'être un spécialiste a ce sujet pour le moment   il y a beaucoup de travail  pour en arriver a quelque chose de viable  et fonctionelle et avec mon travail il ne me reste pas beaucoup de temps dans une semaine a faire des expérimentations . pour de ce qui est de la séquence de l'arduino quand vous ferez la séquence vous devrez allumer une bobine et puis l'autre  et par la suite éteindre la première  sinon vous allez coupé le champ magnétique le but étant de ne pas éteindre le flux seulement le déplacer    ex:1 on, 2 on, 1 off ,3 on, 2 off etc. pour de qui est des diodes de retour il on été  installé  directement sur les bobines mais ils y a probablement des façon de le faire plus simplement je voulait gèrer l'alimentation avec un autre arduino mais j'avait hâte de tester mon appareil et finalement je l'ai brancher directement sans control cela aurait permis de diminuer la consommation a l'entrer de combien je ne sait pas ,je ne sait pas si vous l'avez remarquer mais les supercapaciteur on été conçue pour monté jusqu'a 48 volts et je ne lui est injecter que 26volts  mais vus les problème rencontrer j'aimais mieux attendre au prochain prototype , n'hésiter pas a prendre l'initiative si vous pouvez améliorer des choses faite-le le dz générateur est encore en développement  il y a surement des chose qui mon échapper mais a plusieurs on finiras par trouver la solution merci.
pour de qui est des photos je suis pas capable de vous les faire parvenir  il me parle  de modérateur et de toute façon je croit que mes photos sont trop lourde
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 12, 2018, 05:31:54 PM
Now here is another aspect..coil current.

The DC rail under load appears to drop to around 21V. The unloaded rail is about 25V.

The AC power into the transformer is about 113V x 1.6A or about 180W with the microwave oven load (note I think that meter has a 100A range so that current reading could be +/- 0.1A according to the specs).

Now about 11W of the 180W is the transformer magnetizing current based on the 115V flickering 0.1A no load readings.

Lets take that 180W as a worst case, so 180W/21V= 8.57A average  .. 8.57A/12 coils on at any time (assuming overlapping on periods) = 0.71A average per coil.

So those L298N H bridges should be OK as they are rated at 2A continuous per output.  (you can also parallel them to get up to 3.5A)

We have not seen a scope waveform of a coil current pulse yet but I think that would be interesting to see.

The clock period for obtaining 60Hz is 100ms. The ON period could exceed 100ms running into the next coil period before turning OFF for coil recovery.   

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 12, 2018, 05:45:34 PM
Regarding the stepped sine approximation. I would ask Pierre just to try a suitably rated poly cap of about 50 to 60uf in parallel with the fixed rotor coil. That or an adjusted value will clean up the steps into a sine wave however, I would be cautious that this does not cause the setup to drop out of OU, as this cap would also effect the CEMF phase.

Another way would be another large value inductor in series with the fixed rotor output. That will add some IR losses though.

Another thought is use H bridges and run the whole setup at a higher frequency, but lower voltage say 24V, rectify the output and feed a pure sine static inverter to obtain the voltage and frequency desired.   

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 12, 2018, 05:54:32 PM
The inductance of the coils is not consistent through rotation, so some current pulses will be higher than others, also relay contacts may be sparking. The use of H bridges would clean this up.

A 4 pole fixed rotor would help mitigate the current amplitude variation.

A cylindrical rotor would provide a uniform air gap and maintain a constant coil inductance however, this may also alter the OU condition.

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 12, 2018, 06:36:21 PM
As you would not want to use Pulse Width Moduation on the Arduino pulse outputs, to maintain overlapping pulses, I would suggest using a switch mode power supply with a variable voltage and current limit.

This would also allow you to eliminate the large current limit resistor, as the switch mode power supply would limit the current to its maximum automatically, avoiding waste of energy in the resistor.

The switch mode power supply could be a 115VAC input chassis unit, or bench supply unit, or to reduce cost, use a low voltage winding on the rotor, rectify and smooth, then one of the switch mode power supply boards that are on the market that take say a 50V DC input and have an output controllable over 0-50V up to 5A  250W.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?ff3=4&toolid=11800&pub=5574900467&campid=5338252492&mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F332472222974%3FrmvSB%3Dtrue (https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?toolid=20001&campid=5337996209&customid=link&mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F332472222974)

 

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 12, 2018, 07:40:02 PM
Hi L192 and everyone
Those switched mode power supplies look good very cheap too....I am not familiar with them actually so can only say they look really good sorry.....
You know, Pierre says right there plain as day he wants us to help him improve it, and  he wants us to try doing it too ourselves....this is very rare for an inventor/builder who has constructed a LOOPING device with over a thousand watts leftover to say something like this!

So lets help all we can, in return we will learn ourselves the principle and method as we study just how it does work....understanding why it works is secondary to fact that it does, but it would be very good to understand fully too of course...

And I think anyone who can explain "for sure" to Pierre logically and plainly how it works to him, he would be most grateful fir this,  as he says he wants to understand it!!  (I don't know how myself so cannot explain but can only say it is like a cat chasing its own tail and never catching it but I don't know really)....

Anyways here are suggestions:
1) to clean up the AC, just put all power created into DC caps and run pure sinewave invertor (very simple already suggested before by quite a few on his youtube channel)
2) 1 to 1 transformer on the output (Gary Porters suggestion) and the core material of it will clean up the AC stuff....Gary just suggested this on part4 youtube video
3) AC filters and caps on the choppy spikey AC created ( could get very tricky and complicated)

So that is  suggestions on the AC clean up plan...

For switching, obviously get rid of the mechanical relays, they will not last too long anyways, so  I would suggest using solid state mosfet relays, as you can simply fire them one at a time, with overlapping time periods too, whenever you want to do it with a signal from 3 to 36V dc at the gates/triggers....probably they can hook directly to arduino without the transistors between, but not sure about this...
when you work with mosfets there is always that problem of the gate "sharing" the ground/source like N channel types for example and you cannot easily string them together with overlapping ON times but with solid state relays there is no problem like this....maybe Pierre used those blue  relays because of the overlapping periods he just revealed to us....and to do it mosfet-switching would of been a huge headache....but with the solid state mosfet relays no problem you can hook them up just like the blue relays also the backemf/recoil can be taken out of them just the same as if regular mosfets so there is my measly two cents on switching improvements.  Downside is those SS relays are going to cost maybe 5 bucks apiece getting them cheap in quantity and they are fairly bulky too....some of them are slow switchers but not all of them.... ones rated for 60VDC should switch pretty quick....





 
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 12, 2018, 07:40:35 PM
Pierre's relay H bridge doesn't have the lower set of diodes
If the lower switches are turned off completely the coil energy will not be recovered, as there will be no current path.

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 12, 2018, 07:55:04 PM
See attached.

Each board is a dual H bridge.

2A per bridge up to 35VDC (46VDC if you remove or replace the VCC cap).

5V logic drive directly from arduino.

Over temperature protected.

Supports current limiting.

Outputs can be paralleled for 3.5A max.

35 USD  for 20 pcs.

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gyulasun on March 12, 2018, 08:24:30 PM
Dear L192,

Would mind editing this post of yours and replace the ebay link with this shorter link which goes to the same ebay offer:

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?ff3=4&toolid=11800&pub=5574900467&campid=5338252492&mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F332472222974%3FrmvSB%3Dtrue (https://www.ebay.com/itm/332472222974)

I ask this because sometimes the too long links cause the same problem the attached pictures do when their horizontal pixel number is > 900 or so. 

Thanks.


As you would not want to use Pulse Width Moduation on the Arduino pulse outputs, to maintain overlapping pulses, I would suggest using a switch mode power supply with a variable voltage and current limit.

This would also allow you to eliminate the large current limit resistor, as the switch mode power supply would limit the current to its maximum automatically, avoiding waste of energy in the resistor.

The switch mode power supply could be a 115VAC input chassis unit, or bench supply unit, or to reduce cost, use a low voltage winding on the rotor, rectify and smooth, then one of the switch mode power supply boards that are on the market that take say a 50V DC input and have an output controllable over 0-50V up to 5A  250W.

 -----

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 12, 2018, 10:09:14 PM
I found a parted 2 stroke gasoline AC generator in the lab space I have free use of. So I took it apart to see how many poles (slots) the stator has, see video:  https://youtu.be/iYullLkW9rc (https://youtu.be/iYullLkW9rc)
If anyone is ready to buy the Dual H Bridge L298N Module and have them shipped directly to me I'll provide most everything else and build the test device.
I found the L298N Module in stocked in the US and you get 5 for $9.95 including delivery: 
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?ff3=4&toolid=11800&pub=5574900467&campid=5338252492&mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F222461752336%3FrmvSB%3Dtrue

I think I need 20 of those boards so you're looking at a $39.80 expense to find out if this works.
Any person interested buying those please send me a PM asap.
I live off $100. a week so I can't do that much more other then provide everything else I have access to for free.
Also, I need someone to write the program for the Parallax Propeller P8X32A  #40000 (quickstart) micro-controller board which I think can do the same job as the Arduino but I need someone knowledgeable with these controllers to confirm that.

Looking forward in the support and participation of others

Thanks

Luc
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: hartiberlin on March 12, 2018, 10:26:10 PM
Hi All,
I made a video out of the simulation user pmgr has done and posted it on youtube so you can see it much more easily as it was
a pain to extract the animated GIF file.
Here it is.
Many thanks to user pmgr for this great flux density animation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVARO4DH8uU

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 12, 2018, 10:33:08 PM
Thanks Stefan for making that video.

Please check if Pierre (pedro1) can post. He mentioned he tried and got a message like moderator or something.

Regards

Luc
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 12, 2018, 11:34:31 PM
Hi All,
I made a video out of the simulation user pmgr has done and posted it on youtube so you can see it much more easily as it was
a pain to extract the animated GIF file.
Here it is.
Many thanks to user pmgr for this great flux density animation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVARO4DH8uU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVARO4DH8uU)

Regards, Stefan.
Stefan, my pleasure. Btw. you should have told me you were trying to decompile the animated GIFs. I could have simply sent the frames to you :-)


I did some more updated animations this weekend. Let me know if there is a better way to get these out. The forum appears to corrupt animated GIFs and even zip files. Hope you can find a fix for that.


PmgR
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 12, 2018, 11:38:27 PM
User name partzman has already purchased the L298N boards and the Arduino Mega 2560 as well.
He will send all to me once he receives it somewhere around March 19th.
Thanks partzman for your help and support.

Kind regards

Luc
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 12, 2018, 11:40:16 PM
Lets take that 180W as a worst case, so 180W/21V= 8.57A average  .. 8.57A/12 coils on at any time (assuming overlapping on periods) = 0.71A average per coil.
L192
L192, why are you saying 12 coils are on at any time? Only 6 blue LEDs are on at any time, so that would only be 6 coils on at a time (but 12 relays on to turn those 6 coils on). So current per coil would be 1.42A.



PmgR
====
* Truthfulness * Compassion * Forbearance * www.falundafa.org
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 12, 2018, 11:49:48 PM
Hi PmgR,

In a previous post, Pierre stated that he switches the next coil on before turning off the previous coil so that makes 12 coils ON.

Regards

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 12, 2018, 11:50:41 PM
Post 2861
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 13, 2018, 12:32:28 AM
Hi PmgR,

In a previous post, Pierre stated that he switches the next coil on before turning off the previous coil so that makes 12 coils ON.

Regards

L192
Yes, that is correct regarding having two coils on at the same time. But look at his blue LEDs: there are always two on next to each other. But total only 6 are on (3 sets of 2 LEDs spaced at 8-10-12 "off LEDs" as mentioned before), so he is switching 6 coils total (not 12) per step. E.g. he will switch the 6 coils in slots 1-2, 11-12, 23-24, then it shifts to slots 2-3, 12-13, 24-25, etc. on the next step.

I have verified that this will generate the six poles NSNSNS that Pierre mentions. I am going to write this up in a PDF with clear images once I have some more time.

PmgR
====
Help end the persecution of Falun Gong * www.faluninfo.net (http://www.faluninfo.net) * www.stoporganharvesting.org (http://www.stoporganharvesting.org)
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 13, 2018, 12:43:09 AM
I found a parted 2 stroke gasoline AC generator in the lab space I have free use of. So I took it apart to see how many poles (slots) the stator has, see video:  https://youtu.be/iYullLkW9rc (https://youtu.be/iYullLkW9rc)
Hi Luc,

In your stator only has 30 slots, you need to check how the current windings are positioned to see if you can even re-use them.

You will need an even number of poles, so 5 poles won't work (you would end up with NN or SS next to each other). You could make six poles by having the windings span five slots. Looks like that is pretty much the only option as 3 poles spanning 10 slots wouldn't work (odd pole number) and 5 poles spanning 6 slots won't work either (odd pole number). 10 poles spanning 3 slots would be a possibility as well. However, note that the more poles you have, the less "stair case" points you will have per sine cycle, so I wouldn't go that way as it will not give you a nice sine wave. Hence I recommend doing the 6 poles spanning 5 slots each.

PmgR
====
Help end the persecution of Falun Gong * www.faluninfo.net (http://www.faluninfo.net) * www.stoporganharvesting.org (http://www.stoporganharvesting.org)
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 13, 2018, 02:58:34 AM
Hi Luc,

In your stator only has 30 slots, you need to check how the current windings are positioned to see if you can even re-use them.

You will need an even number of poles, so 5 poles won't work (you would end up with NN or SS next to each other). You could make six poles by having the windings span five slots. Looks like that is pretty much the only option as 3 poles spanning 10 slots wouldn't work (odd pole number) and 5 poles spanning 6 slots won't work either (odd pole number). 10 poles spanning 3 slots would be a possibility as well. However, note that the more poles you have, the less "stair case" points you will have per sine cycle, so I wouldn't go that way as it will not give you a nice sine wave. Hence I recommend doing the 6 poles spanning 5 slots each.

PmgR
====
Help end the persecution of Falun Gong * www.faluninfo.net (http://www.faluninfo.net) * www.stoporganharvesting.org (http://www.stoporganharvesting.org)

I know that and agree with you!   when I'm video recording I often mix up words like say amps when it should of been watts. So in this case I should of said a 5 slot span will fit in the 30 and not 5 poles will fit in the 30
As for using the existing wire. It can definitely be done but it takes a lot of time. If I decide to take that route I'll make a video to show how I do it. Hopefully I'll say the right words to describe what I'm doing lol.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention and making it clear for others,

Regards

Luc
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Thaelin on March 13, 2018, 09:29:33 AM
  Well it seems I was a bit jumpy about the first video. Pierre, my apologies to you so I guess I get to eat some crow.
@Partzman, you beat me to help out here so cant but thanks much as well.

Now, am I right in finding that each slot has in fact two coils in it. One is reversed to the other when it is powered. Is that how he is gaining the NSNSNS effect?

Anyhow was thinking on how could I figure out how many winds are in the stator.  Would it not be similar to a transformer in a 24V to 125V backup system?

thay
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Jeg on March 13, 2018, 10:31:16 AM
To my humble opinion, when two or more coils are overlapping, meaning that they have a common core area, then the transformer effect takes place. That means if both of the coils (which actually act as two primaries)are pushing a North to the same direction, then the induced currents between each other will reduce the flow of the current from the source (battery or caps bank) to both of the coils. The outcome will be a North of a much lower intensity than when one coil is in action.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 13, 2018, 12:55:14 PM
Repeated N and S passing by. 
Steps : 1, 1-2, 2-3, 3-4, 4, one step pause.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ramset on March 13, 2018, 02:21:33 PM
Quick note to Luc
Slyder is on the coding part [its what he doo]

has ordered the exact arduino for programming and also said the mentioned propeller would do the Job but overkill
Quote
" Like taking a Ferrari to the grocery store"

he'll help you sort all that

all good  :)

Chet
ps
as always

all coding will be  open sourced
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 13, 2018, 02:51:42 PM
Thanks Chet for arranging that.
You're the liaison man!... for years silently working in the background on daily communications with a group of researchers,  arranging Skype meeting to encourage and help connect all the different talents together in order to expedite experiments in free energy research.

Just want to say thanks for your years of endless non rewarding efforts and let others that may not know you to consider contacting you and offer their talents or financial support to the group.

Kind regards

Luc
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ramset on March 13, 2018, 04:23:50 PM
Luc
just rowing and Bailing.... been taken on water for quite some time...

a privilege to do what I can here.
would be nice to set some sail and chart a course.

 also there are a few nice open source projects in the works here [some member issues stalled things this last month]
 The EEEE project, the "Fernandez Feb 9 manifesto investigation" and
hopefully member Turbo has some experiments on the TPU  [he is waiting for Stefan to get the new forum update done ]

also some standing wave experiments which I have to Talk with a friend of ours about [hopefully soon]


 truly are some amazing fellows here and elsewhere , the depth of talent and zeal seems limitless in these open source forums
and as always , it is good to see this "working together" .......... regardless the outcome .

Much respect and gratitude
Chet K
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 13, 2018, 06:30:05 PM


Stator re-winding update: https://youtu.be/Yp8FFPQ2E7M
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: e2matrix on March 13, 2018, 07:03:49 PM

I want to toss out one thought that has been nagging at me regarding substituting solid state devices for the relays.   This is just a vague feeling that there may be some importance in keeping mechanical relays.  I won't try to explain it but I believe other people here may know what I mean and I think some have made reference to it possibly affecting the outcome of a build.   Anyway it's just a thought to keep in mind in case a build doesn't work out using solid state.  BTW I just checked dhgate.com for some 12 volt 20 amp relays.  I found with just a quick search they can be had for around $1.50 a piece if we needed to go that way.

I agree that it is great to see all the talent and great minds in this thread!   It's very encouraging to see everyone here working together so well.   I was also looking at getting the dual H bridges for Luc but saw the ebay seller only ships to the 48 CONUS.   Much thanks to partzman although I am guessing the ebay seller will need to ship first to partzman and then partzman will need to ship to you Luc since you are in Canada IIRC ?   In my past experience shipping to Canada is a bit slow so I'd expect parts to arrive more likely a week or so after March 19th. 

    I'm following along in this thread but don't have a lot to contribute as I know most people here are so far above my knowledge in this area especially when it comes to coils and magnetic fields.   I recall seeing konehead some 20 years ago at an Energy conference in California doing his magic with coils and motors so I was glad to see Doug show up here with all his experience and I know many others here are some of the best of the best builders and brains in this arena.   And a sincere thanks to Pierre for putting up his videos and openly sharing all the info which got all this started!   Carry on!
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: TinselKoala on March 13, 2018, 07:40:57 PM
This is a classic case of "cart before horse". The +first+ thing that should be done, before anyone spends time and effort on replication, is _confirmation_ that Pierre actually has what he has claimed to have. Instead of spending money and time on building something that isn't even what Pierre demonstrated in the first place, the time and money should go towards financing a site visit to Pierre's location. And I don't mean a "PESN" style "ohh-ahh" visit with no real examination. This is an earth-shattering, paradigm-shifting, Nobel-prize-winning claim IF TRUE, and should be examined with a fine toothed comb (and all appropriate and necessary test equipment) before anyone gets all excited about it.

How much would it cost to send Luc up to Ontario to visit with Pierre and do a complete examination of the original device? I think a "sugar daddy" might be found to finance the whole trip, while the rest of the investigators sit back and wait for confirmation and more precise build instructions (IF the claims turn out to be true.)

Meanwhile, while waiting for some real confirmation, why not work on replicating Pierre's other, much more simpler Mo-Gen-Flywheel apparatus, also touted by him as being 100 percent OU? Anyone with skills should be able to put that one together in a couple of hours. If it turns out to be genuinely OU, _or not_, that may also tell us something about the reliability of his other claims, no?
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 13, 2018, 07:50:54 PM
Hi E2matrix
Me too, in thinking what might happen is the change to solid state using mosfets or whatever from the noisy mechanical relays that Pierre uses is going to snuff out much of the CEMF or backemf/recoil energy coming out backwards and through the diodes from the switching.....

Gary Porter was saying that you can buy mosfets with no "protection diodes" within them....I don't know the model numbers or anything however, these might be the right thing to use if there are problems going to solid state switching....  Does anyone know model numbers or type of these? (I should ask GP I guess too)
..perhaps mosfets paralleled to lower and lower that resistance of switch when closed might be needed...
Ideal would be the resistance of a simple mechanical switch when switch is closed which would be say .02 ohms....
Another idea for switching  is to simply build or have built common copper commutator with spring loaded carbon brushes....say two 18 pole commutators (one for N one for S pulsing)  and a couple brushes on each (or three to do the overlap period?)  Some sort of pulse width control  too would be ideal....now it would be dead-reliable even EMP proof...anyways just some more ideas and thoughts...


Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: TinselKoala on March 13, 2018, 08:09:10 PM
Mosfets do not contain "protection diodes". They have "body diodes" that are a consequence of how they are constructed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_MOSFET#Body_diode

Mosfets are available that have very low on-state resistance, much less than "0.02 ohms" in many cases. But they all have the body diode. If you are looking for a fast switching element that does not contain this diode, you are not looking for a mosfet.

Paralleling mosfets has its own set of problems. One must insure that the load is shared equally among the paralleled mosfets or you will wind up blowing a lot of parts.




Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: memoryman on March 13, 2018, 08:21:28 PM
TK, exactly my sentiments. I live in Ontario (approx 1 hr west of Toronto) and may be willing to partake.
I have grave doubts about the validity of his claims and the methodology of Pierre. Look at his prior videos of 'free energy' devices and you'll see what I mean.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 13, 2018, 08:32:34 PM
This is a classic case of "cart before horse". The +first+ thing that should be done, before anyone spends time and effort on replication, is _confirmation_ that Pierre actually has what he has claimed to have.

 why not work on replicating Pierre's other, much more simpler Mo-Gen-Flywheel apparatus, also touted by him as being 100 percent OU?  If it turns out to be genuinely OU, _or not_, that may also tell us something about the reliability of his other claims, no?
==> TinselKoala :) :)
But it seems to be a very costly and time consuming hoax !!

Mo-Gen-Flywheel apparatus:  énergie gratuite a 100% fr : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6cJmVdeyYU
I come to think of  that_prophet with his pulleys.


And about relays : http://www.pickeringrelay.com/2016/04/07/reed-relay-comparison/

Regards / Arne
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 13, 2018, 08:34:37 PM
I want to toss out one thought that has been nagging at me regarding substituting solid state devices for the relays.   This is just a vague feeling that there may be some importance in keeping mechanical relays.  I won't try to explain it but I believe other people here may know what I mean and I think some have made reference to it possibly affecting the outcome of a build.   Anyway it's just a thought to keep in mind in case a build doesn't work out using solid state.  BTW I just checked dhgate.com for some 12 volt 20 amp relays.  I found with just a quick search they can be had for around $1.50 a piece if we needed to go that way.

Thanks e2matrix. I did think of the difference. If solid state fails then I will have to try with relays just to be sure.

This is a classic case of "cart before horse". The +first+ thing that should be done, before anyone spends time and effort on replication, is _confirmation_ that Pierre actually has what he has claimed to have. Instead of spending money and time on building something that isn't even what Pierre demonstrated in the first place, the time and money should go towards financing a site visit to Pierre's location. And I don't mean a "PESN" style "ohh-ahh" visit with no real examination. This is an earth-shattering, paradigm-shifting, Nobel-prize-winning claim IF TRUE, and should be examined with a fine toothed comb (and all appropriate and necessary test equipment) before anyone gets all excited about it.

How much would it cost to send Luc up to Ontario to visit with Pierre and do a complete examination of the original device? I think a "sugar daddy" might be found to finance the whole trip, while the rest of the investigators sit back and wait for confirmation and more precise build instructions (IF the claims turn out to be true.)

Meanwhile, while waiting for some real confirmation, why not work on replicating Pierre's other, much more simpler Mo-Gen-Flywheel apparatus, also touted by him as being 100 percent OU? Anyone with skills should be able to put that one together in a couple of hours. If it turns out to be genuinely OU, _or not_, that may also tell us something about the reliability of his other claims, no?

What you say is true and makes some sense TK. However, the reality, practicality and price difference for me or someone else to visit Pierre in the Quebec area (if he would agree) would probably be costlier then to just build and test it.
So far it hasn't cost me a dime and I don't expect it will since we are all working together. A trip back and forth to visit Pierre could easily cost $500. Building it has probably cost partzman less then $100. bucks. I have all the other supplies needed and more in the lab space I have free access to.
Also, the H-Bridge and Arduino can be reused by everyone needing it in the group. So I don't think it's as much waste as you make it sound.
In all the experiments I've performed over the years I can't say I have ever experimented with a rotating electromagnetic field in the conditions Pierre has demonstrated.
This will be a learning experiment and become experience once completed.

Regards

Luc
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: memoryman on March 13, 2018, 08:43:28 PM
seead. There are many 'reasons' why people do hoaxes, if this is a hoax. Read up on Piltdown Man.
It is certainly at least a case of poor measurement.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: TinselKoala on March 13, 2018, 08:50:49 PM
TK, exactly my sentiments. I live in Ontario (approx 1 hr west of Toronto) and may be willing to partake.
I have grave doubts about the validity of his claims and the methodology of Pierre. Look at his prior videos of 'free energy' devices and you'll see what I mean.

Indeed.

I know of an extremely competent laboratory in Mississauga, very near to Pearson Intl. airport, about 2 miles off the 401, that might be interested in examining this claim and even in helping the inventor develop and bring it to full, earth-shaking fruition if preliminary tests indicate something worth looking at further.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: memoryman on March 13, 2018, 08:54:43 PM
TK, it's far to early for that. Pierre indicate the input voltage with cheap Chinese volt and amp 'meters', certainly not true rms, and no phase measurements. That alone is a giant RED FLAG.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: TinselKoala on March 13, 2018, 08:57:08 PM
seead. There are many 'reasons' why people do hoaxes, if this is a hoax. Read up on Piltdown Man.
It is certainly at least a case of poor measurement.

Well, I think we can rule out "poor measurement" if he really can run a big microwave oven for several minutes at full power while the thing is powering itself and isn't connected to the mains. Still, a simple 1500 watt resistive electric heater would be an even better load for testing.

You are quite right about reasons. Great complexity and effort and even cost are not reasons to rule out hoaxing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsb9W3G8CGI
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 13, 2018, 09:12:40 PM
Hi E2matrix
Me too, in thinking what might happen is the change to solid state using mosfets or whatever from the noisy mechanical relays that Pierre uses is going to snuff out much of the CEMF or backemf/recoil energy coming out backwards and through the diodes from the switching.....

Gary Porter was saying that you can buy mosfets with no "protection diodes" within them....I don't know the model numbers or anything however, these might be the right thing to use if there are problems going to solid state switching....  Does anyone know model numbers or type of these? (I should ask GP I guess too)
..perhaps mosfets paralleled to lower and lower that resistance of switch when closed might be needed...
Ideal would be the resistance of a simple mechanical switch when switch is closed which would be say .02 ohms....
Another idea for switching  is to simply build or have built common copper commutator with spring loaded carbon brushes....say two 18 pole commutators (one for N one for S pulsing)  and a couple brushes on each (or three to do the overlap period?)  Some sort of pulse width control  too would be ideal....now it would be dead-reliable even EMP proof...anyways just some more ideas and thoughts...

Hi Konehead,

Nothing stopping people experimenting with relays. In fact I hope somebody replicates Pierre's setup exactly.

Attached is an 8 relay opto isolated board for $5.  16 relay boards also available. It will cost more than the L298N approach, as you will also need the recovery diodes.
I guess it depends what you believe the mechanism for the OU is.
I personally don't believe its in recovery voltages, transients or switching artifacts. For a 1:8 ratio it has to be more fundamental and my bet is the diversion/phase separation of the CEMF flux.
Just my opinion. :)

Pierre has already indicated that transistor H bridges is where he is going next, also with the aim to obtain a clean step waveform. So that's the direction I am going in.

I made the investment in the super caps but in the medium term I don't see why you would need them if you keep the circuit in a loop. All you would need would be a start up DC voltage applied to a much more modest cap. I think his 27F (18 x 500F in series) bank probably is overkill, as it hardly dropped voltage during the relative long switch over. A lot of cost could be pulled out of the build by reducing to a more modest super cap bank value. The 500F units are the most expensive generally available.

Regards

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: memoryman on March 13, 2018, 09:23:35 PM
TK, there is no good energy in/out measurement. Also, nothing in the videos rules out hidden power supplies/wires.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 13, 2018, 10:11:32 PM
One among 100 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2JDRsGNrcs
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: TinselKoala on March 13, 2018, 10:33:19 PM
One among 100 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2JDRsGNrcs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2JDRsGNrcs)

Why not post the one from Pierre himself?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6cJmVdeyYU
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: TinselKoala on March 13, 2018, 10:41:18 PM
TK, there is no good energy in/out measurement. Also, nothing in the videos rules out hidden power supplies/wires.

Oh, I agree.

But you must admit that the claim is _zero_ input power, shown by disconnecting the power input from the mains (allegedly), and a large enough power output to drive the microwave oven long enough to heat up some water. Those "measurements" IF TRUE would be good enough to show excess energy out vs. in.

Which is why I say the replicators are jumping the gun. Let's see some real proof that the claims are true before people spend a lot of time and money trying to replicate. There are many ways to provide real proof. Site visit by competent and trustworthy investigators from this forum, or inspection at a real laboratory with interest in such matters, or even just getting some graduate EE students or professors from the local university to visit, examine, test and report under their real names ...

But I predict none of these things will happen. And I know why not ... and so do you.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: memoryman on March 13, 2018, 10:46:29 PM
"But I predict none of these things will happen. And I know why not ... and so do you." indeed.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 13, 2018, 11:01:08 PM
He put that tiny "Mo-Gen-Flywheel apparatus" on Y.T. to pretend look like a moron. That's because of security reasons to avoid the government secret guys when he releases the REAL THING.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: memoryman on March 13, 2018, 11:07:09 PM
"He put that tiny "Mo-Gen-Flywheel apparatus" on Y.T. to pretend look like a moron. That's because of security reasons to avoid the government secret guys when he releases the REAL THING." he certainly succeeded; maybe looks are not deceptive and he actually looks like what he is, just like  Gerard Morin.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 13, 2018, 11:11:21 PM
Yes, that is correct regarding having two coils on at the same time. But look at his blue LEDs: there are always two on next to each other. But total only 6 are on (3 sets of 2 LEDs spaced at 8-10-12 "off LEDs" as mentioned before), so he is switching 6 coils total (not 12) per step. E.g. he will switch the 6 coils in slots 1-2, 11-12, 23-24, then it shifts to slots 2-3, 12-13, 24-25, etc. on the next step.

I have verified that this will generate the six poles NSNSNS that Pierre mentions. I am going to write this up in a PDF with clear images once I have some more time.

PmgR
====
Help end the persecution of Falun Gong * www.faluninfo.net (http://www.faluninfo.net) * www.stoporganharvesting.org (http://www.stoporganharvesting.org)

Hi PmgR,

Seaad posted in another forum "I have toggled the film frame by frame and found that it is always between 6 -12 relay LEDs lit simultaneously"

It may be the overlap is only 1ms, so easily missed that 12 coils are on at the same time?

Regards

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 13, 2018, 11:26:31 PM
Stator re-winding update: https://youtu.be/Yp8FFPQ2E7M (https://youtu.be/Yp8FFPQ2E7M)

Hi Luc,

Before you start on winding, I have a quick update on the simulations.

I am not sure what winding span Pierre is using but if it is 6, it doesn't produce a nice even field around the stator (see that attached image Config010).

For a 36 slot stator, the ideal configuration for 6 poles happens when each coil spans 7 slots, so wire in slot 1 (let's saying going up) and return wire going down into slot 7 (wire going down), the next windings will go:

01-07 08-14 15-21 22-28 29-35 36-06
07-13 14-20 21-27 28-34 35-05 06-12
13-19 20-26 27-33 34-04 05-11 12-18
19-25 26-32 33-03 04-10 11-17 18-24
25-31 32-02 03-09 10-16 17-23 24-30
31-01 02-08 09-05 16-22 23-29 30-36

So you start at slot 1 and end at slot 36 and exactly 6x6=36 windings.

Please see the attached to image (Config012). I removed the output coil for clarity in these simulations.

Please double check with Pierre if he has his coils covered 6 slots or 7. If he is only covering 6 slots, his field won't be perfect going around 360deg along the stator.

Applying the same logic to your stator, to get an even field, you would need each coil to span 6 slots, so this would mean the following for your stator:
01-06 07-12 13-18 19-24 25-30
01-06 07-12 13-18 19-24 25-30
01-06 07-12 13-18 19-24 25-30
01-06 07-12 13-18 19-24 25-30
01-06 07-12 13-18 19-24 25-30

You see the problem with this: you would be filling up the same slot going around. So there is a problem with trying to get this done on this 30 slot stator. Looks like 36 slots is a magic number. 

I tried a 5 slot coil span and a 7 span coil span as well, but they have a similar problem:

5 slot coil span:
01-05 06-10 11-15 16-20 21-25 26-30
01-05 06-10 11-15 16-20 21-25 26-30
etc.

7 slot coil span:
01-07 08-14 15-21 22-28 29-05
06-12 13-19 20-26 27-03
04-10 11-17 18-24 25-02
03-09 10-16 17-23 24-30

So this is not going to work either. You would only end up with only 17 coils before the same slot starts refilling.

Last try: 10 slot coil span:
01-10 11-20 21-30
01-10 11-20 21-30

Same problem here, so I give up. I don't think you can get a nice 6 poles field with 30 slots.

Magic number appears to be 36 (=3*3*4, 4*9, 3*6)

Maybe it is better to get a 36 poles stator instead of trying to spend your time winding this one.

Last note:
To my humble opinion, when two or more coils are overlapping, meaning that they have a common core area, then the transformer effect takes place. That means if both of the coils (which actually act as two primaries)are pushing a North to the same direction, then the induced currents between each other will reduce the flow of the current from the source (battery or caps bank) to both of the coils. The outcome will be a North of a much lower intensity than when one coil is in action.
Jeg, you are correct, take one more look at my images. For Config010, two neighboring slots have current running in the same direction, Config012 has current running in opposite direction. Config010 makes a much better poled field towards the center of the stator. Config012 appears to be creating another pole in between the two wire slots.


PmgR
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 13, 2018, 11:55:00 PM
Why guys are you're always aiming towards a BIG contraption? I'm always searching for "the OU effect" and that can be done with small units.
R / Arne
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 14, 2018, 12:08:21 AM

@PmgR, maybe this video will clear up the misunderstanding:  https://youtu.be/6vxqT2HyX5E
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 14, 2018, 01:10:47 AM
@PmgR, maybe this video will clear up the misunderstanding:  https://youtu.be/6vxqT2HyX5E (https://youtu.be/6vxqT2HyX5E)
Hi Luc, clear video. I understand what your are doing now with the winding. You are putting two coils in the same slot so you need 6*(6-1)=30 slots.

For Pierre's case, I think we need to get clarification from him how exactly he has wound the stator. What I assumed in my latest simulations is that a coil runs over 7 slots and the next coil is in the neighboring slot (see my number sequence above).

01-07 08-14 15-21 22-28 29-35 36-06
07-13 14-20 21-27 28-34 35-05 06-12
13-19 20-26 27-33 34-04 05-11 12-18
19-25 26-32 33-03 04-10 11-17 18-24
25-31 32-02 03-09 10-16 17-23 24-30
31-01 02-08 09-05 16-22 23-29 30-36

Yet he could also have done it like you did in your video: spanning 7 slots and have the neighboring coils in the same slot, then he would get the following sequence:
01-07 07-13 13-19 19-25 25-31 31-01
02-08 08-14 14-20 20-26 26-32 32-02
03-09 09-15 15-21 21-27 27-33 33-03
04-10 10-16 16-22 22-28 28-34 34-04
05-11 11-17 17-23 23-29 29-35 35-05
06-12 12-18 18-24 24-30 30-36 36-06

So we need to ask him which one he did and what coils are connected to each other as there are many options to interconnect these coils in a (closed loop) series manner.

PmgR
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 14, 2018, 02:21:45 AM
Hi Luc, clear video. I understand what your are doing now with the winding. You are putting two coils in the same slot so you need 6*(6-1)=30 slots.

For Pierre's case, I think we need to get clarification from him how exactly he has wound the stator. What I assumed in my latest simulations is that a coil runs over 7 slots and the next coil is in the neighboring slot (see my number sequence above).

01-07 08-14 15-21 22-28 29-35 36-06
07-13 14-20 21-27 28-34 35-05 06-12
13-19 20-26 27-33 34-04 05-11 12-18
19-25 26-32 33-03 04-10 11-17 18-24
25-31 32-02 03-09 10-16 17-23 24-30
31-01 02-08 09-05 16-22 23-29 30-36

Yet he could also have done it like you did in your video: spanning 7 slots and have the neighboring coils in the same slot, then he would get the following sequence:
01-07 07-13 13-19 19-25 25-31 31-01
02-08 08-14 14-20 20-26 26-32 32-02
03-09 09-15 15-21 21-27 27-33 33-03
04-10 10-16 16-22 22-28 28-34 34-04
05-11 11-17 17-23 23-29 29-35 35-05
06-12 12-18 18-24 24-30 30-36 36-06

So we need to ask him which one he did and what coils are connected to each other as there are many options to interconnect these coils in a (closed loop) series manner.

PmgR

Glad that cleared it up.
I'm quite sure Pierre wired his double coils per slot and why he has 72 relays and 72 diodes since you can't recover flyback from a single coil when AC is used, right?... the only way one could do it is to use an active diode switch which would flip the diode direction before the next pulse. We know Pierre did not do that, so I think it's safe to say I've got it right.
One way or the other before I start winding I'll make a French video for him and explain how I plan to wind just to make sure we are on the same page.

Thanks for your time and help

Regards

Luc
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: mikegarla on March 14, 2018, 07:52:11 AM
I tested some Solid state relays:

Mager MGR-1 DD220D40  (5-220 VDC in:3-32 VDC)
 On time Delay 1.28  ms
 Off time Delay 1.28 ms


Fotek SSR-80 DD  (5-60 VDC in 3-32 VDC)
 On time delay 0.56 ms
 Off time Delay 1.84 ms

I used a scope to get the times, your mileage will vary with input voltage higher to faster, and you could use a pull-down 10k for off time.

You maybe can source faster ones but cost will be higher..

edit; Writing the code is Not hard at all for the Mega 2650 sorry typo! its a SainSmart MEGA-2560
I'll try to upload some code for switching SSR's

Plus you would need back to back SSR's to stop destroying the Mosfets plus a fuse connecting the pairs just for safety, like a 30 amp for a 40 amp SSR.
That's maybe why he used the Relays...

Mike
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 14, 2018, 10:11:16 AM
Hi all
I am not "promoting" SSR switching, just saying it can be done but too expensive for one thing  (and lots of other ways to switch) and also I hope someone replicates exactly what Pierre does and gets the looping and OU.....

Also I have serious problems with the magic numbers that Pierre gave out, I think he was mistaken, or else the pattern continures "staggered" on position, or else it is supposed to "stop" at 36 pole and not continue....please look at at this revised drawing I did to make it clear what I was also talking about a few days ago - it gets out of sequence at end of string of phases if you do the 1-6 2-7 etc thing take a look here:

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 14, 2018, 10:19:13 AM
Hi Pmrg
I see the same thing as you - look at my blurry drawing and see the colored sequence (red black blue green yellow)
In Pierres drawing of the switched pulsing showing the overlap, (4th image Luc put up) it shows a direct connection between one pulsed phase and the next, so I do not think the pulsed phases are "side by side" but maybe (!?!) ....we really need to get this cleared up it is easy to think a sequence of 6 and  a "span" of 7  and to think the sequence of 6 is a span of 6 perhaps this is what Pierre meant all along....Luc can you ask?
konehead
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Jeg on March 14, 2018, 11:18:38 AM

Last note:Jeg, you are correct, take one more look at my images. For Config010, two neighboring slots have current running in the same direction, Config012 has current running in opposite direction. Config010 makes a much better poled field towards the center of the stator. Config012 appears to be creating another pole in between the two wire slots.


Thanks for confirming this.

1. Pierre said six poles nsnsns. But also stated that perhaps the system can also work with 2 or 3 poles. By saying 3 poles (odd number) shows that he means poles that they are the one next to the other and not poles that they are diametrically opposite in the cycle of stator. Three poles indicate a NSN configuration. So it is safe to assume that when speaking about nsnsns he means poles that they are the one next to the other.

2. Pierre also spoke about a possible usage of a regulator at the input. That confirms the problem of the transformer effect that needs to be balanced for the creation of a uniform magnetic field vs Time.

Regards

 
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: r2fpl on March 14, 2018, 11:36:59 AM
Maybe he will help :)
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 14, 2018, 12:45:26 PM
This I believe is Pierre's scheme before he overlapped adjacent coils for a short period.
L192

 Start:

Observe polarities

 N        S          N           S         N          S
1-6     7-12   13-18   19-24   25-30   31-36
Switching Sequence:
1,7,13,19,25,31  = ON previous coils =OFF
2,8,14,20,26,32 = ON Previous coils =OFF
3,9,15,21,27,33 = ON Previous coils =OFF
4,10,16,22,28,34 = ON Previous coils =OFF
5,11,17,23,29,35 = ON Previous coils =OFF
6,12,18,24,30,36 = ON Previous coils =OFF
Change polarities, as below and repeat switching sequence:
 S         N          S           N           S          N
1-6     7-12   13-18   19-24   25-30   31-36
Then back to start.
 

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 14, 2018, 12:49:54 PM
Maybe he will help :)
Hi r2fpl,
Very nice image. This is exactly what I simulated in the Config010 image. I note that although this does give the 6 NSNSNS poles this does not give an evenly spread pole (see how Config010 is not evenly spaced compared to Config012).
Can you make a similar drawing for my other sequence (7 slot span instead of 6, see my previous post for the exact numbers)? You will get an interleaved pattern of colors and it will correspond to Confi012.
Then Luc can send these images to Pierre and Pierre can pick the correct one and finish that one by making the connections between the 36 coils.
PmgR


Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: r2fpl on March 14, 2018, 01:41:45 PM
PMGR: Simulation only for even poles :(

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gyvulys666 on March 14, 2018, 03:06:00 PM
hi
attached edited konehead picture . shouldnt   sequence be like in picture i attached in order to make full 360 degrees rotation?
cause some magic numbers seems missing :)
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 14, 2018, 03:50:47 PM
 
Salut Pierre, peux-tu regarder un vidéo en français que j'ai faite pour toi et s.v.p. confirmer si le bobinage de mon stator est correct.
Il y a encore beaucoup de confusion au forum sur le sujet et ton aide pour confirmer cela dès que possible serait grandement appréciée.

Lien vers la vidéo: https://youtu.be/kjWRzd3qKIM (https://youtu.be/kjWRzd3qKIM)

Merci pour ton temps

Luc

English translation
Hi Pierre, can you please look at the French video I made for you and confirm if my stator coil winding is correct.
There is still much confusion at the forum on the subject and your help to confirm this as soon as posible would be greatly appreciated.

Link to video: https://youtu.be/kjWRzd3qKIM (https://youtu.be/kjWRzd3qKIM)

Thanks for your time

Luc
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 14, 2018, 03:57:17 PM
Hi Gyula
The red wire you drew within stators that connect through adjacent poles is how it must be and that seems correct. The pole numbers are also correct, the rest of it forget about it eh!
.
The last drawing I put up with the question marks was meant to show that this method does not work out right,  (and has not  the adjacent poles in it like yours does) 

 If winding (weaving) the one "good-wire" as shown in your drawing (the red inner wire not the rest of the mess outside the frames)

This red wire would go DOWN through slot 6 then come back UP through slot 7 (adjacent slot) and the jump again over to the slot 12 go DOWN through that, then UP through 13 and so on....(weaving) Finally the beginning of wire connects to the end of red wire too, so a completed circle.....Pierre mentioned intertwined or interweaving wires....so this describes how it will be when everything is connected up and there will be fiver circuiar "strings" within the "rope" of circular wires...

All ends of the coils must connect together, as Pierre clearly showed in this drawing of his switching circuit so seems there are 5 connected-ends circles to the stator wiring....note there should be in finished product, 2 wires per slot.....
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 14, 2018, 04:02:48 PM
Hi Gyula

Hey Doug, is your message for Gyula or for gyvulys666 who just posted above your post?

Luc
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gyulasun on March 14, 2018, 04:32:14 PM
Hi Gyula
The red wire you drew within stators that connect through adjacent poles is how it must be and that seems correct. The pole numbers are also correct, the rest of it forget about it eh!
...

Hi Doug,

As Luc indicated, you may have taken member gyvulys666 as if he was me.  Of course his first name could be Gyula as well,  I do not know him. 

Greetings,
Gyula
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 14, 2018, 05:27:59 PM
Hi Gyula
The red wire you drew within stators that connect through adjacent poles is how it must be and that seems correct. The pole numbers are also correct, the rest of it forget about it eh!
.
The last drawing I put up with the question marks was meant to show that this method does not work out right,  (and has not  the adjacent poles in it like yours does) 

 If winding (weaving) the one "good-wire" as shown in your drawing (the red inner wire not the rest of the mess outside the frames)

This red wire would go DOWN through slot 6 then come back UP through slot 7 (adjacent slot) and the jump again over to the slot 12 go DOWN through that, then UP through 13 and so on....(weaving) Finally the beginning of wire connects to the end of red wire too, so a completed circle.....Pierre mentioned intertwined or interweaving wires....so this describes how it will be when everything is connected up and there will be fiver circuiar "strings" within the "rope" of circular wires...

All ends of the coils must connect together, as Pierre clearly showed in this drawing of his switching circuit so seems there are 5 connected-ends circles to the stator wiring....note there should be in finished product, 2 wires per slot.....
Too many options to wind this.... the above is another possibility. But for this case, you get a red wire looping back on itself and it is only occupying 12 slots total. Let's say you do the same for the other color wires and loop them back on themselves. Then you have 36 slots filled, but then how do each of these colored wires then connect to each other?


Another ways is to span 7 slots with this method. Then you will fill all slots going around and all of them will be in series.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 14, 2018, 06:29:06 PM
Okay guys, it's all sorted out. The winding method I suggested happen to be what Pierre used. The below is Pierre's reply (translated to English) of my French video to him.
Believe it or not the wire I chose (seen in my video) is 22 awg and exactly the size Pierre used. Not only that but my coil is 36 turns and Pierre used 35 turns.
So no more discussion needed. Let's move on with correct Femm testing and replications.

Regards
Luc

Pierre's reply
Hello Luc,
yes, that's exactly what I did two interlaced coils in each slot.
I use 22 awg but a smaller wire could have done the job.
I made 35 turn per coil and it was a very tight fit in the available slot space.
Tonight I'll write back to you because I think I found the problem of my wave form and I'll have to redraw my electrical schematic

Pierre
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Jeg on March 14, 2018, 06:48:51 PM
Hi Luc
Thanks for what you are doing. Your video is very clear even in French. If I understand, when stator is ready every slot contains two coils?

Regards
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 14, 2018, 07:03:04 PM
Hi Everyone
Here is best I can do explaining how I think the windings of Pierre's stators goes - note that the 12 "corners" of the 6 poles created in each layer is where you would hook up the power input connections......everything comes out even with 6 poles now you just have to pulse them NSNSNS and get that "switching-overlap" timing thing happening too so there is never an off period....the "free energy" comes from the "jump across", and the 4 windings are "trapped" between the coils on each end, so the field wants to collapse but cannot, and they can only "try" to, so this energy is sent through diodes to fill caps. This is the theory of secret person who lurks on this board, he explained it to me why the free energy is because of the wrap over the encased winds....not sure about that but good theory I think best I have heard so far.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 14, 2018, 07:13:05 PM
Hi Luc
Yes I thought that was Gyula but didn't read very good sorry...
I did not see your post from Pierre, and in meantime drew out my new drawing with the 5 colored layers....who knows maybe this is exactly the same thing Pierre is trying to get across..can you show it to him next time??.
Thanks amillion  for finding out 22GA wire and how many turns per coil...we are getting real close now and your build is going to be awesome - have fun eh!
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 14, 2018, 07:20:33 PM
Hi Everyone
Just thought about that the coils should maybe be wound LHR and RHR to create N-S field in stator core between the coils and to not wind them same direction....
Also you could send in power with half the amount of switches too since the coils are in series so maybe not each "corner" in drawing being power input...not sure about that but just thinking.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: TinselKoala on March 14, 2018, 07:20:51 PM
22 pages in and still nobody has posted an actual timing diagram for this project?

I'm sure Mile High is ROFLHAO.

For example:

https://www.electronicshub.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Timing-diagram-1.jpg

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 14, 2018, 07:53:04 PM
@ Jeg, you've got it right.

Tested the coils time constant: https://youtu.be/WxFxnVld9-8 (https://youtu.be/WxFxnVld9-8)

Please let me know if you see and error!... that includes you TK

Thanks

Luc
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ramset on March 14, 2018, 11:06:06 PM
TinselKoala
22  pages...
can we subtract the 10 pages of reasons why we should not be doing this??
------------------------------------------
 
MileHigh rolling around on the floor laughing at the members here?

what else is new.......... not sure we needed to be reminded .

I have heard from plenty of members just how happy they are to read this thread
and how wonderful it is to see fellows from all around the globe working together...
while we still can..

This is not Luc's first summer and he has stated many times he is intrigued... as are many others here.

Now that the fellows have things sorted,  maybe Milehigh can fill out this sequencing /timing chart and send it back
https://www.electronicshub.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Timing-diagram-1.jpg (https://www.electronicshub.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Timing-diagram-1.jpg)
just so we get it right.....

Luc's Vid again
 https://youtu.be/WxFxnVld9-8 (https://youtu.be/WxFxnVld9-8)


Nothing but gratitude for these fellows and what they are doing here.

Chet K



 
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: TinselKoala on March 15, 2018, 12:04:08 AM
TinselKoala
22  pages...
can we subtract the 10 pages of reasons why we should not be doing this??


10 pages? Are you sure you don't mean "10 posts" ?

Quote
------------------------------------------
 
MileHigh rolling around on the floor laughing at the members here?

what else is new.......... not sure we needed to be reminded .


You (and others) might not like it, but MileHigh is absolutely correct: this project (and many others) would be much clearer
and easier to analyze if Pierre and others working on this would publish complete Timing Diagrams. This is just basic reverse-
engineering practice. Are you afraid of Timing Diagrams? Were you frightened by a Timing/Dwell Meter at an early age?

Of course such information may turn out to be ... TOO revealing.

Quote

I have heard from plenty of members just how happy they are to read this thread
and how wonderful it is to see fellows from all around the globe working together...
while we still can..

This is not Luc's first summer and he has stated many times he is intrigued... as are many others here.

Now that the fellows have things sorted,  maybe Milehigh can fill out this sequencing /timing chart and send it back
https://www.electronicshub.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Timing-diagram-1.jpg (https://www.electronicshub.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Timing-diagram-1.jpg)
just so we get it right.....


Mile High knows we need timing diagrams, but what makes you think it is HIS responsibility to provide one? Surely
this is the responsibility of the original claimant and those who are actively trying to replicate what he claims.

Quote

Luc's Vid again
 https://youtu.be/WxFxnVld9-8 (https://youtu.be/WxFxnVld9-8)


Nothing but gratitude for these fellows and what they are doing here.

Chet K

We'll see how grateful everyone is in a few months, when we are cooking our cheezburgers on all the Free Energy coming from
Pierre-systems.

Or not.



Cart before horse. Confirm that the claimant actually has what he claims... that is absolutely STEP ONE. Especially in something as complex
as this. Otherwise you are taking a big risk that all your time and effort and money will be wasted. And especially when the claimant has some
other, even more dodgy claims. Why isn't anyone rushing to build his "100 % Overunity" Mo-Gen-Flywheel device, that doesn't even need any
timing diagrams at all?  I know why... and so do you.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Temporal Visitor on March 15, 2018, 12:25:39 AM
22 pages in and still nobody has posted an actual timing diagram for this project?

I'm sure Mile High is ROFLHAO.

For example:

https://www.electronicshub.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Timing-diagram-1.jpg

Keeping track of the page count isn't going to get you to where one could be done, or posted.

Mile High may be doing just that, funny but so what?

What is not funny is that a bright guy like you: doesn't, won't, or is unable to see and understand what you surely do see this machine IS doing to be able to make one. In reality the only thing I see stopping you from doing so - IS you.

Then again: I don't know and perhaps you are not supposed to comprehend it, and perhaps you never will.

The silver lining in all the above is: You have abilities and can think therefore you might, recall your own insightful words to another and elsewhere/previously to me;

Energy is stored in  . . . . . ..  You get back what you put in, minus losses. You can get the energy out at greater _power_ levels than you put it in ... over a shorter time period.

But only by your very own will. Because when you put nothing in you get back just WHAT YOU PUT IN: nothing.

Moreover, rather than just raising Cain: When WILL you be Able?
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: dole on March 15, 2018, 12:46:00 AM
Hi,
Interesting  :)

If I did not misunderstand something, it seems to me that so many relays and switches is not necessary at all?
Clearly 2 will be enough for one pulse circle, one for each 90 degrees and then it is repeated. Probably more precise if it is taken care of equality.

At the point where poles are direct in front of the static rotor or elsewhere, I don’t see anything else then transformer in action?

(But possible opposing magnetic field from the static rotor (secondary coil) is not acting
 in the same way against the magnetic field in whole core (primary) with multiple polarity coils closed by itself,
 so the magnitude of the change in magnetic field strength (flux) probably not causing significant less EMF in the stator winding (primary).)
Hopefully we shall see.

Also seems to me that any closed core will work so far we have even number of poles 2,4,6,8...
we just mimic movement of the SN around without collapsing.

Thanks

d.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 15, 2018, 03:34:10 AM
Pierre posted a new video, but I am not sure how to understand it:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh4cC9hIXbg


He has 36 coils connected in series in a loop which I understand, but I don't understand how he says six coils make one coil. So schematic is clear, but not how it corresponds to the physical structure.


PmgR
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 15, 2018, 05:49:58 AM
Pierre posted a new video, but I am not sure how to understand it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh4cC9hIXbg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh4cC9hIXbg)

He has 36 coils connected in series in a loop which I understand, but I don't understand how he says six coils make one coil. So schematic is clear, but not how it corresponds to the physical structure.

PmgR

Pierre posted that video because of my video to him made him realize why he may be getting the not so clean step wave form. This was his attempt to consider making changes. However, I warned him by PM and youtube to not make any changes (unless he has a 2nd device) until one of us can replicate what he has demonstrated.  Since who knows, maybe what he thinks is not correct is actually what makes this work?

Pierre has confirm to me twice now that I have it correct and that all coil slots will end up double coils. So 72 coils in total his 36 slot and it will be 60 coils in my 30 slot.
I'll be mounting all my 60 recovery diodes around the perimeter of the stator in effort to reduce wire resistance.
Also, I will wind only about 10 slots and send a video to Pierre to get his approval that it's indeed the method he used before going any further.

BTW, PmgR and I have been having phone conversations so we are both on the same page. If konehead wants to talk by phone just send me your number at: gotoluc2@gmail.com

Regards

Luc
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: TinselKoala on March 15, 2018, 06:35:43 AM
Keeping track of the page count isn't going to get you to where one could be done, or posted.

Mile High may be doing just that, funny but so what?

What is not funny is that a bright guy like you: doesn't, won't, or is unable to see and understand what you surely do see this machine IS doing to be able to make one. In reality the only thing I see stopping you from doing so - IS you.

Then again: I don't know and perhaps you are not supposed to comprehend it, and perhaps you never will.

The silver lining in all the above is: You have abilities and can think therefore you might, recall your own insightful words to another and elsewhere/previously to me;

But only by your very own will. Because when you put nothing in you get back just WHAT YOU PUT IN: nothing.

Moreover, rather than just raising Cain: When WILL you be Able?

Oh? Well, thank you for your assessment. What's keeping _you_ from doing so?

Maybe this will help:

https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/alternating-current/chpt-13/tesla-polyphase-induction-motors/

I will admit to this much: I don't understand where the excess energy is supposed to come from. But I see many loss mechanisms that are easy to understand.
---------------------------------

(Ramset, you seldom watch videos, I know, but you really should watch this one, it's a thing of beauty you will appreciate.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC_hXGdaSFg

Others may also be interested in the wiring diagram shown at 5:09 in the above video. Replicators of Pierre's device may care to make their own versions of this standard diagram format, showing their connections, and of course the constructions will have to take into account that there are two coils in each slot instead of a single one.

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: oscar on March 15, 2018, 09:35:19 AM
Dear Pierre,
I think the problem of the distorted waveform of the output of your machine is not caused by the winding pattern of your stator. I think the problem is caused by the winding of your output-coil.
If you want to achieve a clean wave form, the output coil will have to be wound and positioned as careful as your stator.
In order to find the proper postion of the output coil(s) you could wind just very few turns on your laminated core and watch the result on the scope, while changing/shifting the positon of theses windings.
Maybe you want to investigate this before winding a new stator.

I also want to take the opportunity to thank you for your openness about the system.

And thirdly I want to recommend that you take a look at the patents of Clemente Figuera (http://alpoma.net/tecob/?page_id=8258) - if you don't know him. This man has invented a very similar system before the first world war. He just did not use relays to switch the input but used a complex commutator.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gyvulys666 on March 15, 2018, 09:42:11 AM
just stupid question. wouldnt it be possible to simulate same effects by rotating brushless motor stator and keep rotor static?
br
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 15, 2018, 09:59:51 AM
Hi Gyulvan sp?
AKA an "outrunner" spinning the stator around fixed rotor. It will work, you need to bring wires out through hollow shaft or whatever you can think of....problem is you will encounter lenz law braking of the rotating stator upon loading  -  unless you can find some sort of sweet spot to rpms and impedance of coils like Thane Karl Heinz delayed lenz effect...
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 15, 2018, 10:16:42 AM
Pierre posted that video because of my video to him made him realize why he may be getting the not so clean step wave form. This was his attempt to consider making changes. However, I warned him by PM and youtube to not make any changes (unless he has a 2nd device) until one of us can replicate what he has demonstrated.  Since who knows, maybe what he thinks is not correct is actually what makes this work?

Pierre has confirm to me twice now that I have it correct and that all coil slots will end up double coils. So 72 coils in total his 36 slot and it will be 60 coils in my 30 slot.
I'll be mounting all my 60 recovery diodes around the perimeter of the stator in effort to reduce wire resistance.
Also, I will wind only about 10 slots and send a video to Pierre to get his approval that it's indeed the method he used before going any further.

BTW, PmgR and I have been having phone conversations so we are both on the same page. If konehead wants to talk by phone just send me your number at: gotoluc2@gmail.com

Regards

Luc

Hi Gotoluc,

Each coil has 2 sides, so you only need 36 coils lapped to put 2 sides in each slot. Pierre is only showing 36 coils and looking at the stator you can see the coils are lapped.

Also he is using 72 single pole relays.

The coils remain in a series loop connection, irrespective of switching, so I am not sure that energy is being recovered into the cap bank when a coil is turned off, it could be returned as stator flux.

Regards
L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 15, 2018, 10:26:11 AM
Hi Luc
Also if you do "adjacent" coils rather than coils "sharing" slots like you show, you will also end up with two coils per slot too...
My big problem is still those magic numbers,....if you follow them, it seems he is saying to wrap coils not through common shared slots, but into the adjacent slots (6-11, 7-12 etc)
He didn't say 6-11, 11 -16 etc. style like you are doing in your video (I am thinking 36 poles)
Also to continue the "shared slot" coil placement you can count out with fingers easy,....so 6-11,  11-16,  16-21,  21-26,  26- 31, 31-36.........that last number 36 throws it all off since now to "share" with slot number 6 and complete
the "circle" you would now have "36 - 5" coming up next and "36 - 6 is 7 digits, not 6 so this has me quite confused.  Someone told me yesterday the "next layers" count as 1/2 slot so it does come out even, but that makes no sense too....
Anyways to rectify this situation just do "adjacent" slots, not shared  and it comes out even at end....
Also I think the riddle of "6 coils becoming one" just means all the coils are in series, strung together,like a big circle all connected  and the the pulsing comes in at appropriate points (for example the "corners" in my drawing....AND/OR since coils in series, why not switch the whole thing at once? (saves a lot of switches!)  and sequentially pulse and rotate the different wirings (red blue green pink yellow I think it is, in my last drawing with the 5 layers shown)
Will need the overlap period too, have not thought about that too much still worried about the correct stator winding pattern!!
This all makes sense to me what I write but so do lots of things that do not make sense (haha)
The coils wrapped around the single poles every 6 in my drawing probably is not good idea but who knows lots of ways to do this but lets get exactly what Pierre does down first eh!
thanks for all! I have genset just like yours will work on when I get back to seattle march21 (in Belarus now next to Russia)
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 15, 2018, 11:34:02 AM
I posted this previously but perhaps it wasn't clear so I have added some additional notes.
L192

 Start:

Observe polarities

 N        S          N           S         N          S
1-6     7-12   13-18   19-24   25-30   31-36    <each of these coils extend 6 slots

So at the point of switching the last coil set
coil 6 will span 6 to 11,
coil 12 will span 12 to 17,
coil 18 will span 18 to 23,
coil  24 will span 24 to 29,
coil 30 will span 30 to 35,
coil 36 will span 36 to 5. 

so that places two coil edges in each slot.

Switching Sequence:
1,7,13,19,25,31  = ON previous coils =OFF
2,8,14,20,26,32 = ON Previous coils =OFF
3,9,15,21,27,33 = ON Previous coils =OFF
4,10,16,22,28,34 = ON Previous coils =OFF
5,11,17,23,29,35 = ON Previous coils =OFF
6,12,18,24,30,36 = ON Previous coils =OFF

Change polarities, as below and repeat switching sequence: This picks up the progression of the poles around the rotor
 S         N          S           N           S          N
1-6     7-12   13-18   19-24   25-30   31-36
Then back to start.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 15, 2018, 12:06:25 PM
No OverUnity Effect !
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 15, 2018, 12:17:15 PM
Hi Listener
Yes I saw that, and if you want to use the magic numbers, this is the only way to do it far as I can tell with 36poles......so run the coils through "adjacent" slots, not common shared slots.
Maybe with 30 pole motor it is different, now you have to use shared-slots like Gotolucs video.
Also those magic numbers Pierre gave will apply to where in the string of coils you will pulse them at too if you look at his switching circuit drawing showing the overlap method....so magic could be because they describe two purposes, the magic numbers...
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 15, 2018, 12:19:40 PM
VIDEO FOR TINSELKOALA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU5Zvki8tgo
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: shylo on March 15, 2018, 12:50:15 PM
would the shared slots not just create a cancellation of the turns in the coil legs, one coil putting out a north the other a south?
Pierre said their both on at the same time or they overlap.
Since all of the slots are shared all the way around ,complete cancellation?
If he shares slots then he has to use 7 slots per coil, if he has coils one after the next he has to use six slots, which I would think would not cause the fields to cancel?
Very confusing.
artv   
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 15, 2018, 01:43:54 PM
Hi Shylo
Maybe its a typo, but its not "or" they overlap, they are supposed to overlap for some time so the frotating ield never "turns off"
I agree with you in what you are thinking; two coils sharing same slot through the stator will cancel if pulsed opposite polarity - maybe this is the idea however??  I don't know still confused but we will eventually figure it all out I am sure.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: citfta on March 15, 2018, 02:33:01 PM
First thing is I am NOT saying this does or doesn't work.  That remains to be seen.  But I am having a problem understanding why the interaction between the stator and fixed rotor is any different than the action between the primary and secondary of any transformer.  What makes this any different?  The rotating magnet field is still just changing the flux going through the secondary just like any normal transformer.  And any normal transformer has an increase in current in the primary when the secondary is loaded.  So what makes the action of this device any different, if in fact it is real?

Respectfully,
Carroll
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 15, 2018, 02:42:05 PM
would the shared slots not just create a cancellation of the turns in the coil legs, one coil putting out a north the other a south?
Pierre said their both on at the same time or they overlap.
Since all of the slots are shared all the way around ,complete cancellation?
If he shares slots then he has to use 7 slots per coil, if he has coils one after the next he has to use six slots, which I would think would not cause the fields to cancel?
Very confusing.
artv

Hi Shylo,

Yes, a given slot at a pole change will have two coil sides with current opposing, however the stator section encompassed by each coil is where the flux will be developed, either North or South. The back of the poles could couple through the outer stator regions however, in the inner stator regions, where the fixed rotor is not present, that path could only complete locally N to  S through the air, although this will be a high reluctance path. As a given pole starts to come into registration with the rotor, this provides a low reluctance path to an opposite pole and so the pole flux is progressively coupled into the rotor, as the pole moves progressively into registration.

A more important consideration is the lack of a 4 pole rotor, which could couple more flux over a large region of the stator.

Regards

L192   
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 15, 2018, 02:47:08 PM
First thing is I am NOT saying this does or doesn't work.  That remains to be seen.  But I am having a problem understanding why the interaction between the stator and fixed rotor is any different than the action between the primary and secondary of any transformer.  What makes this any different?  The rotating magnet field is still just changing the flux going through the secondary just like any normal transformer.  And any normal transformer has an increase in current in the primary when the secondary is loaded.  So what makes the action of this device any different, if in fact it is real?

Respectfully,
Carroll

Hi Carrol,

One theory is that the angle of arrival of flux into the fixed rotor is different to that encountered by the Counter flux due to the load. This is only true over a certain angle as the pole come into registration.
The fixed rotor Counter flux will always couple through the path of least reluctance, which would be the same fixed angle into the stator. So you end up with a phase difference between the energizing flux and the counter flux.

Regards

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Jeg on March 15, 2018, 02:49:32 PM
Hopping that Pierre is reading here:

By watching the output waveform i see that the problem exist three clicks before and three clicks after a pole transition. During this period looks like that the fixed rotor coil with its specific width, accepts both a south and a north to the same coil side and the same time. This is a good reason for oscillation.
Even if you move to four poles the problem is still there during transitions.


Regards
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 15, 2018, 02:59:59 PM
Hi Jeg,

When the pole transition is aligned with the rotor, you would want the N/S poles to fold back through the end of the rotor and not cross through. This would then be the zero cross point of the sinewave.
One of PgmR's simulations shows this happening.

Regards


L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: shylo on March 15, 2018, 03:28:51 PM
when a coil is pulsed, and the coil shuts off, the coil produces an opposite field to what it had when it was first pulsed right?
If I pulse it to make a north field ,when I disconnect the supply the field reverses and becomes south ,correct?
The reverse field is what gives us the so called "flyback" ?
Maybe he uses the collapsing field to increase the magnitude of the next propagating field?
Cifta, I agree , but in a transformer the field is stuck in one spot whereas in Pierres' design the field can move, not really sure.
So the core is seeing not only a rotating magnetic field ,but also the flyback strengthing the output of the core?
Along with the flyback, which to me is the reverse magnetic field, this also creates a reverse electrical field is what he stores which in turn replenishes the supply?
Looking forward to Lucs' build since he will break it down step by step.
artv
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: TinselKoala on March 15, 2018, 03:38:21 PM
VIDEO FOR TINSELKOALA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU5Zvki8tgo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU5Zvki8tgo)

Ah.. so that's where the Free Energy comes from. Thanks, I knew it had to be something like that.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: centraflow on March 15, 2018, 04:40:27 PM
when a coil is pulsed, and the coil shuts off, the coil produces an opposite field to what it had when it was first pulsed right?
If I pulse it to make a north field ,when I disconnect the supply the field reverses and becomes south ,correct?
The reverse field is what gives us the so called "flyback" ?
Maybe he uses the collapsing field to increase the magnitude of the next propagating field?
Cifta, I agree , but in a transformer the field is stuck in one spot whereas in Pierres' design the field can move, not really sure.
So the core is seeing not only a rotating magnetic field ,but also the flyback strengthing the output of the core?
Along with the flyback, which to me is the reverse magnetic field, this also creates a reverse electrical field is what he stores which in turn replenishes the supply?
Looking forward to Lucs' build since he will break it down step by step.
artv


Hi, I think things are getting very confused.


Letts say you charge a coil and the CURRENT direction is left to right, then when you switch off, the coil will discharge with the current going in the same direction, left to right. The pole will not change, if it charged NS it will discharge NS as he showed a typical boost circuit earlier on. This will happen until the circuit changes the charge direction.


Hope that explains this ok


Regards


Mike 8)
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 15, 2018, 05:31:41 PM
Just  a message to those using the L298N H dual H bridge.

This device will be fine for a single coil per bridge approach. You wont be able to implement Pierre's serial coil scheme however, as the L298N has a single enable line for each bridge i.e. you cant turn off one side of the bridge. I have been looking for a board with a bank of half bridges but no luck so far. I think it will be an expensive custom build.

Pierre also raised a point about shoot through protection when using an H bridge. The L298N has about 0.3 to 0.4 us of dead time built in so that should be OK.

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Temporal Visitor on March 15, 2018, 05:54:24 PM
Oh? Well, thank you for your assessment. What's keeping _you_ from doing so?

Maybe this will help:

https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/alternating-current/chpt-13/tesla-polyphase-induction-motors/

I will admit to this much: I don't understand where the excess energy is supposed to come from. But I see many loss mechanisms that are easy to understand.
---------------------------------

(Ramset, you seldom watch videos, I know, but you really should watch this one, it's a thing of beauty you will appreciate.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC_hXGdaSFg

Others may also be interested in the wiring diagram shown at 5:09 in the above video. Replicators of Pierre's device may care to make their own versions of this standard diagram format, showing their connections, and of course the constructions will have to take into account that there are two coils in each slot instead of a single one.

Really, you are welcome and there is nothing keeping me from making a timing diagram which would make it easier to "reverse engineer". However I do my own work start to finish as much as possible, and do reach out for help from others who are better versed in the areas that are not my strengths when the need arises. At this point I don't yet need a timing diagram and spend time on the fundamentals, like: "In the beginning" - the sequence of EVENTS, all the way to the logical end, to make it work on paper first. Don't enjoy the cart before the Horse routine at all.

The first link you provide is great for learning about currently used motors; which is not what this type of system is functionally nor is there any similarity other than being coils of copper in an iron stator.

It would also be great to learn more about the loss mechanisms you see, especially after once you are able to see where and how the input is working. I am quite sure you can comprehend it if/when shown, and most certainly you would be great to have do an honest assessment of the most basic fundamentals that make it a part of what appears to be a new reality.

Thanks for the video link: It inspired me to draw out my understanding of the winding in that "standard diagram format" for helping others rather than the format I need and use to work alone.

Would enjoy trying to show you, and you know how to make that happen.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Jeg on March 15, 2018, 06:56:36 PM
Hi Jeg,

When the pole transition is aligned with the rotor, you would want the N/S poles to fold back through the end of the rotor and not cross through. This would then be the zero cross point of the sinewave.
One of PgmR's simulations shows this happening.

Regards


L192

Hi L192
That is crystal clear. What i am referring to is the moment when North is followed by the South to the same side of the receiver. That moment is susceptible for high oscillations which will not be corrected by lowering the number of poles.

About timing this is the easy part. It is more difficult to extract the old winding out of a burned car alternator!!! ;D
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 15, 2018, 07:00:37 PM
Attached BTN7960 half bridge.

Would work well for Pierres's switching scheme but a little pricey.

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 15, 2018, 08:00:50 PM
Regarding the pole transition issue that Pierre has identified...

If solid state switches were being used, applying pulse width modulation, reducing ON duty cycle to both north and south poles as they approach and leave the rotor, would mitigate the problem without introducing pole gaps.

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Alex81 on March 15, 2018, 08:14:02 PM
Hi Guys,
Am new here my name is Alex and I am from Germany.
Sorry for my English translated the text with Google, because I can not speak English so well.
The generator from Pierre is very impressive, really a great achievement! This generator is almost the same as that of Ingo Köth on Youtube, but you do not know if you already know it, but he uses a universal motor and controls the 32 contacts of the carbon brushes with 16 n Mosfet and 16 p Mosfet opposite to the half from the stator is north and the other south always in a circle so that one has a rotating magnetic field. According to his statement, he has an ou of 16 times, have already experimented with it a little but so far without success, have the carbon brushes with a small dc motor rotate not the rotor and the stator windings attacked because I have no experience with an Arduino , Would like to build the small flywheel generator of Pierre soon but I am not sure if he has wrapped something on the generator, maybe someone knows what he has modified everything?

Regards
Alex
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 15, 2018, 09:43:43 PM
Pierre has confirm to me twice now that I have it correct and that all coil slots will end up double coils. So 72 coils in total his 36 slot and it will be 60 coils in my 30 slot.

Luc

To everyone

When I wrote the above post I was thinking of the combined 2 coils in 1 slot (2x30=60). However, the reality is, I have 30 coils in my stator because 1 coil covers 2 slots. So my post was misunderstood by some. Sorry if this confused the already confusing :-\ topic.

Francais
Quand j'ai écrit le post ci-dessus je pensais à la combinaison de 2 bobines dans une ouverture (2x30 = 60). Cependant, la réalité est, j'ai 30 bobines dans mon stator, car 1 bobine fournit  2 ouvertures. Donc, mon message a été mal compris par certains. Désolé si cela a troublé le sujet déjà confus :-\ .
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Jeg on March 15, 2018, 10:30:52 PM

 reducing ON duty cycle to both north and south poles as they approach and leave the rotor, would mitigate the problem without introducing pole gaps.

L192

Exautly ;)
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: TinselKoala on March 15, 2018, 10:58:14 PM
Really, you are welcome and there is nothing keeping me from making a timing diagram which would make it easier to "reverse engineer". However I do my own work start to (snip)

The first link you provide is great for learning about currently used motors; which is not what this type of system is functionally nor is there any similarity other than being coils of copper in an iron stator.
Did you miss the part about the rotating magnetic field?
Quote
It would also be great to learn more about the loss mechanisms you see, especially after once you are able to see where and how the input is working. (snip)

You could start by considering the nearly 250 watts (allegedly) dissipated in the big power resistor. And continue on to consider the massive eddy current losses in the motionless "rotor" and stator cores.

I think I probably have a better idea about "how the input is working" than some others here may have.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: TinselKoala on March 15, 2018, 11:03:39 PM
Hi L192
That is crystal clear. What i am referring to is the moment when North is followed by the South to the same side of the receiver. That moment is susceptible for high oscillations which will not be corrected by lowering the number of poles.

About timing this is the easy part. It is more difficult to extract the old winding out of a burned car alternator!!! ;D

Jeg, didn't you watch the video I linked above?

You use a cold chisel to cut off the coil wires on _one side only_, flush with the metal of the stator core. Then from the _other side_ where intact loops still exist, you pull the wires out using the loops, while heating the core from inside if necessary to free things up.

The video also shows how the "winding" is done: windings are prepared off the core in "skeins", then are carefully inserted into the core slots.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 15, 2018, 11:33:21 PM
reducing ON duty cycle to both north and south poles as they approach and leave the rotor, would mitigate the problem without introducing pole gaps.

francais
réduire le cycle de service ON aux pôles nord et sud à mesure qu'ils s'approchent et quittent le rotor, atténuerait le problème sans introduire d'interstices entre les pôles

L192

I also agree but what if this is what causes the positive results?

francais
Je suis également d'accord, mais il est possible que ce soit ce qui provoque les résultats positifs?

Luc
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 16, 2018, 12:01:02 AM
Hi Gotoluc,

Well Pierre is talking about separating the poles by two slots, what if that kills the effect?

My view is that if pierre's modification works and produces a cleaner waveform (albeit closer to a triangular step), without loosing the effect, then all well and good.

If not stick with the current scheme and rectify the output to DC and feed a pure sine static inverter.

Depending on the static inverter input say 24VDC model, just use less turns, heavier gauge wire on the rotor. 

Then concentrate on maximizing the input/output ratio.

I don't think you will get a good sine wave output, without applying a sine distribution to the poles.

The other area of experimentation would be to try a cylindrical rotor. 

Regards

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Temporal Visitor on March 16, 2018, 12:50:27 AM
Did you miss the part about the rotating magnetic field?
You could start by considering the nearly 250 watts (allegedly) dissipated in the big power resistor. And continue on to consider the massive eddy current losses in the motionless "rotor" and stator cores.

I think I probably have a better idea about "how the input is working" than some others here may have.

Nope did not miss that part when drawing it and writing out the sequence of events that make sense of it from beginning to end.

Nor did I miss the part where Peirre showed the temp of the resistor and radiator, which is part of the "minus losses" that are very real considerations.

I don't doubt that you do have ideas, and so do the others and myself as well. If I thought otherwise you wouldn't be reading this or anything else from me about your "ability to comprehend it" and my willingness to personally try to show you what you admit you don't understand. Don't get me wrong: I don't claim to know it all or what Peirre actually has going on - but I do know some of what hasn't been discussed here to date.

Two heads can be better than one. - But I know better than to put seven engineers to work designing a Horse: because they'll come up with a Camel every time.

As always: it is up to you.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 16, 2018, 02:38:12 AM
Message from Pierre

Hello to all,
I see some have trouble understanding how the dz generator works. I will help by showing you step by step by building a second prototype.
I managed to find a new 10hp 3 phase motor, so it's going to be a bigger prototype than my first version.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I'll be able to build a second functional version that will work right from the start and also solve the problems of the first prototype.
All your constructive comment will be welcome and I would like to thank those who have already given some good advice.
Please be patient because my biggest problem is the lack of free time. I'll only have a few hours on weekends to work on this new prototype, so it's not going to go very quickly but step by step I'll get it done. 

Thanks for everyone support.

Pierre

https://ibb.co/cczLec (https://ibb.co/cczLec)
https://ibb.co/dewSQH (https://ibb.co/dewSQH)
https://ibb.co/m9VJzc (https://ibb.co/m9VJzc)

Text francais original de Pierre
bonjour a tous !comme je voie vous avez du mal a comprendre comment le dz générateur fonctionne je vais vous aidez en vous montrant pas a pas la fabrication de mon deuxième prototype et oui j'ai réussi a trouver un nouveau moteur de 10hp  3ph cette fois ci et donc plus gros que ma première version j'espère pouvoir régler les problèmes du premier prototype pour pouvoir faire une deuxième version fonctionelle je me croise les doigts pour que tout fonctionne du premier coup   tout vos commentaire constructif seront la bienvenue merci déjà a ceux qui mon déjà conseiller il ne vous reste qu'a rester patient car mon plus gros problème est le manque de temps je n'ai que quelque heures les fin de semaine pour travailler sur le prototype alors je n'avance pas vite  pas a pas je vais finir par y arriver merci a tout le monde . pierre!
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Jeg on March 16, 2018, 07:56:08 AM
Jeg, didn't you watch the video I linked above?

You use a cold chisel to cut off the coil wires on _one side only_, flush with the metal of the stator core. Then from the _other side_ where intact loops still exist, you pull the wires out using the loops, while heating the core from inside if necessary to free things up.

The video also shows how the "winding" is done: windings are prepared off the core in "skeins", then are carefully inserted into the core slots.

If i had seen it it wouldn't take me a whole day to clean the core! But the worst is that now my core looks quite small!! :D
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 16, 2018, 12:47:15 PM
The Magneto Motive Flux (MMF) distribution on a single pole (concentrated) winding is rectangular.

After further analysis...

Pierre's winding and coil connection scheme is essentially a 6 coil distributed winding that creates a stepped MMF i.e. due to the coil overlap, the center of the pole has a higher MMF than the edges.

Referring to the attached image.

This illustrates how distributed windings normally work in an AC machine. This example showing 5 coils.

Note: Normally due to stator space, this would be reduced to 3 coils in a practical implementation.

Ok, so Pierre uses 6 coils however, the problem is that his 6 coils only have a 6 slot pitch. This results in a waveform that is triangular in distribution rather than sine.

A gap is needed  to widen the top step, although at the moment I cannot see a solution to a 6 pole configuration using 6 coils.

Two coils on and two coils off per pole may work, although the distribution would not be ideal.

If the poles were reduced to 4, then 3 coils on, 3 coils off could be used, which would yield a much better sine approximation. Then just clock the switching sequence at a higher rate to achieve  60Hz (50Hz).

L192
 
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 16, 2018, 02:23:08 PM
For those that want to implement the half bridge ladder scheme that Pierre uses, It would seem the the L298N is still the lowest cost solution.

Tie together OUT 1 and OUT 2 and tie together In1 and In2.

Repeat for other side of L298N.

This should be Ok as the manufacturer already permits paralleling the bridges.

This now gives you two independent half bridges, with each Enable input turning off both transistors.

This will then require 36 boards instead of 18 but it is the cheapest solution I can find, unless you want to build your own half bridge boards, which will likely be more expensive.

The combined output stages will provide about 3.5A of continuous current capability.

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: x_name41 on March 16, 2018, 02:53:27 PM
as shown by the demonstration, capturing energy through diodes to supercapacitors is not enough to obtain self-powered so it is necessary moreover return of a certain quantity of energy from the exit to the entrance, there are 2 energy returns in the system (if it can so be called)

here's (https://www.skif.biz/index.php?name=Pages&op=page&pid=138) something like that only that with the capture of energy from windings that are located on the original ones (something like a transformer is getting)

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: e2matrix on March 16, 2018, 06:10:09 PM
Attached BTN7960 half bridge.

Would work well for Pierres's switching scheme but a little pricey.

L192


i'm seeing some on Aliexpress.com for around $3.50 to $5.00 a piece if you buy 10 which includes shipping.  Smaller quantities are only a little more.   Some parts from there are good but some are not the best quality.
I also see this ebay seller has 6 of them for $19.99 with free shipping so only $3.33 a piece for those who may want to try that method.


I wrote the above before seeing Listener191 changed to say the L298N can be used and it is still quite a bit less money as he stated in post #373.   
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 16, 2018, 08:09:43 PM

i'm seeing some on Aliexpress.com for around $3.50 to $5.00 a piece if you buy 10 which includes shipping.  Smaller quantities are only a little more.   Some parts from there are good but some are not the best quality.
I also see this ebay seller has 6 of them for $19.99 with free shipping so only $3.33 a piece for those who may want to try that method.


I wrote the above before seeing Listener191 changed to say the L298N can be used and it is still quite a bit less money as he stated in post #373.

Hi e2matrix,

For anyone that has already purchased the L298N boards it would be better to utilize them and just add more boards however, the BTN7960 offers higher current capability.

Regards
L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 16, 2018, 09:08:12 PM
I edited post 373 to add another solution for a better distributed sine.

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 17, 2018, 12:35:16 PM
For those that want to implement the half bridge ladder scheme that Pierre uses, It would seem the the L298N is still the lowest cost solution.

Tie together OUT 1 and OUT 2 and tie together In1 and In2.

Repeat for other side of L298N.

This should be Ok as the manufacturer already permits paralleling the bridges.

This now gives you two independent half bridges, with each Enable input turning off both transistors.

This will then require 36 boards instead of 18 but it is the cheapest solution I can find, unless you want to build your own half bridge boards, which will likely be more expensive.

The combined output stages will provide about 3.5A of continuous current capability.

L192

Correction to the above.

There are 72 switches required and  with the above modification there are effectively 4 switches in each L298N ( two half bridges), so 18 L298N boards will be sufficient.

L192
 
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 17, 2018, 01:51:14 PM
Hi everyone
I made again another drawing, this one shows a 30 pole stator frame, like what Gotoluc is working on (and also I have back in Seattle and two other people I know have also who want to try this rotating field DZ generator by Pierre)
So anyways, this drawing is supposed to show my idea of good way to pulse just one of the 30 sequential pulses per one rotation and is meant to save a lot of switches....maybe all the extra switches Pierre shows is necessary for the big OU effect I don't know for sure but here is how I would do it not to say how I would do it is going to be the best way in end product.
So note in drawing all 6 NSNSNS phases are connected in one string, all connected in series (could do parallel or series and paralleled depending on the impedance you want and thickness of wire you use to wind)
Also note that one phase is Left Hand Rule and the next one Right Hand Rule winding direction to create the NSNSNS situation of the 6 phase pattern.
Now you need just one H switch of 4 switches, to fire all 6 phases in alternating DC, not 24 like Pierre shows....perhaps this will upset the whole thing perhaps not but is a lot simpler to do...I would guess still connect all the diodes as usual to pull out not only any backemf/recoil/flyback, (but seems to me actual backemf/recoil/flyback collecting/steering  diodes only needed on the switches themselves however)
HOWEVER each phase is sharing slot with neighboring phase, and there is that N goinb one way through that slot, and S going other way through same slot and someone else was mentioning this too earlier, and this will create a BUCKING situation there, and to me this also creates soething just like a "shorted" coil too....the scope wave-forms Pierre shows and is concerned about and wants to fix (Pierre is suggesting to Luc to not have shared slots anymore and separate the winds and Luc is worried this change may upset the whole setup)
Anyways these scope wave forms really resemble my experiments with coils in generators shorted at the sinewave peak periods!  And the voltages to fill up caps goes from somewhere around X20 to best I have heard is X 50 when the peaks are shorted....Pierres scope shots show the same flurry of hyper-ringing towards and at the peaks of his messy sinewave!! So "perhaps" this IS a part of the OU effects he gets - the shared slots work to create a shorted-coil situation is what I am saying, and this creates much more voltage and joules to be filling up the caps, much faster, and of higher voltages than would be normal so "perhaps" the N-S sharing of common pole slots is doing this (maybe not)
Here is drawing of my idea for pulsing one phase, of the sequentially pulsed 30 phases:



Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: dole on March 18, 2018, 12:57:18 AM
There are 72 switches required ...

 My apologize,  Nr.switch = Nr.coils x 2

L298N:
 Motor A truth table ENA             IN1         IN2         Description
0             N/A       N/A       Motor A is off
1             0             0             Motor A is stopped (brakes)
1             0             1             Motor A is on and turning backwards
1             1             0             Motor A is on and turning forwards
1             1             1             Motor A is stopped (brakes)
 
Motor B truth table ENB              IN3         IN4         Description
0             N/A       N/A       Motor B is off
1             0             0             Motor B is stopped (brakes)
1             0             1             Motor B is on and turning backwards
1             1             0             Motor B is on and turning forwards
1             1             1             Motor B is stopped (brakes)
 
   
ps.
Thanks for BTN7960

d.

 
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 18, 2018, 08:11:15 AM
hi everyone
Here is another drawing this time of the five steps of field rotation in a 30 pole stator wired to create 6 poles NSNSNS.

Also this helps as guide  to see where stator windings go and stretch to and from in the stator if rewinding a 30 pole stator...

I don't know if each 12 degree step in a rotation should be of alternating polarity or not, maybe the polarity of all 6 poles should change after the 5 steps or change every step seems like you would make more power with each step changing all 6 polarities all at once on each step but this is not shown here (changing polarities each step so 30 times in a revolution)
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 18, 2018, 10:34:56 AM
Hi Erfinder
No problems eh! -for 36 slots, just adjust everything to be one more step now (6 instead of 5)  I am sure you know with 36 slots you will have same as what Pierre has....You have probably seen it, but look at his latest video showing him draw out the 6 NSNSNS phases...included is the many-switches switching method he does, (note the pos and neg rings around) I had to watch a few times on full screen to understand - also note the small arrows he draws to show flow direction too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh4cC9hIXbg

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 18, 2018, 02:41:13 PM
Hi Erfinder
In answer to your riddle, I would say what not discuused or "seen" much (so far anyways) is the windings and fields NOT being pulsed or intentionally rotated ....so, for every phase(s) pulsed, there are 5 (in 30 pole stator 6 in 36 pole) being induced and getting also their polarities whipped around....and so WHERE does this "5 times greater" induced energy" go to? What does it "want to do"?
I would say it wants to collapse like a pulsed magnetic field would, BUT there is never any OFF period in the scheme of the field rotation, so it cannot collapse even if it wants to, it is trapped and goes along for ride, being induced more and more until it says fuck it and exits out the diodes to be put to good work...so this induced energy puts itself to work reinforcing both the joules filling up the cap bank to keep it looped, also it induces even more power than is "normal" into that fixed-rotor secondary...
Also there is no lenz law from field rotating (as there is if physical rotor rotates) and no CEMF too, in the transformation from primary to secondary, if there was either, this design would never be able to loop (my opinion)  so why is there is no lenz, no CEMF? 
I would say lenz just "does not apply" and no CEMF because there is never an OFF period to that rotation...and/or else the rotation keeps the CEMF from secondary getting a grip on the primary as it is always moving, chasing its own tail...
As for the reversed and colliding flow of fields through the ends of the coils, this is very interesting effect and possibly another factor why this machine design both loops and has such good leftover power...as I wrote about last lengthy post those opposing fields through common stator slot (could) work like a coil short, and guess what happens when an energized coil is briefly shorted for an instant?
 If you have a FWBR or diodes connected from this coil to cap, the cap fills up super fast and very high voltage is what happens....but just having a small portion of the "ends" of a coil passing through a stator slot shared by another coil going other way in its flow direction is new ball of wax to consider what happens in just what it is that happens,  I will guess it causes a brief shorted-at-peak condition to the  coils,  ("hyper ringing")especially when adjacent "reversed flow"  coils are both ON at same time (to make field rotation be without OFF period)
Anyways here below in link to page on my website,  is photo of what I looks like when a generator coil producing square-wave 60hz AC has its leads shorted together briefly with a switch (mechanical in this case) ....look at that hyper ringing as I describe it as, and you can see how caps would fill up very fast and high with this coil rectified and connected to capacitor (photo at bottom of webpage link)
Note it resembles "a bit" how Pierres AC looks, at least at the middle of Pierre's sinewave, and although this photo has much higher voltage peaks than what Pierre has, there is still that similar flurry of spikes in Pierres scope-shot of his wave form too..  so this makes me think a shorted condition does occur from the sharing of stator slot with coils of reversed electrical flow (bucking) but please don't get distracted too much with this it might not be actually the effect the shared-slots create but it might be...
https://sites.google.com/site/alternativeworldenergy/shorting-coils-circuits

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 18, 2018, 02:56:53 PM
Hi Erfinder
Forgot to ask, what was it that Gary Porter (captainbythesea) showed everyone but no one could see??
Gary has sent me in my email quite a few examples of how to pulse, how to wire this DZ generator design, I probably have 6 or 7 different ones of how it could be working! So not sure exactly what it is that we should be looking at....
By the way in Gary's last email he mentioned what about a circular central core instead of that fixed rotor?
Good idea eh.....perhaps big torroid I don't know endless possiblilites really...
I think no problem if someone wants to copy to the T what Pierre does (replicate exact ) and why not at least that person will be on same page with Pierre, can confirm, understand better, and then improve upon in next prototype like Pierre is doing already....
Could be going solid state in switchin will destroy the whole design, we will see what happens sure will be lot quitter and more reliable if so....I tend to think a couple copper commutators with brushes would work best and most reliable - one commutator for N pulsing, other for S
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 18, 2018, 04:27:40 PM
Yesterday I wanted to find the individual coil switching frequency of Pierre's device by taking pictures frame by frame of his video until the switching cycle starts over.
NTSC video is an excellent timing reference because it is fixed at 30 frames per second.
I sent the pictures to PmgR and he came up with the below calculation.

From PmgR: comparing photo 2 and photo 10 (or 1 and 9), that is 8 video frames and a change of 12 coils. So at 30 frames per second that comes down to 0.0222secs for switching to from one to the next coil. That is about 45Hz, probably the fastest the relays can go.

francais
Hier, j'ai voulu trouver la fréquence de commutation de bobine individuelle de l'appareil de Pierre en prenant des photos image par image de sa vidéo jusqu'à ce que le cycle de commutation recommence.
La vidéo NTSC est une excellente référence temporelle car elle est fixée à 30 images par seconde.
J'ai envoyé les images à PmgR et il est venu avec le calcul ci-dessous.

De PmgR: comparer la photo 2 et la photo 10 (ou 1 et 9), soit 8 images vidéo et un changement de 12 bobines. Donc, à 30 images par seconde, cela revient à 0,0222sec pour passer de l'une à la suivante. C'est environ 45Hz, probablement le maximum des relais.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 18, 2018, 04:46:52 PM
No one seems to comprehend the relation that two properly polarized coils in the same slot represent....  ...  I do....  see image... I eat sleep and breath this concept for the last 8 years....  My opinion doesn't matter though, because I don't have a self running device.... LOL...
Erfinder, please enlighten us all so we may learn in the process  :)


PmgR
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 18, 2018, 06:59:40 PM
Hi Erfinder

Pehaps you mean that H switching will not work right, since it breaks the fields when OFF...

.rather the fields should be all connected in series like one long string with end connected to beginning and the pulsing of power into this string enters at certain "points" within this string?

Perhaps the sections of this long string do not connect via wires, but the transformer effect of the shared-slots where ends of coils meet?  (long shot idea but could be at least I am thinking about it)

Sorry about the shorted coils thing, I thought there is some bit of evidence the shared slots create this situation and hyper-ringing effect to some degree, maybe insignifigant and just causes some interference seen on the scope.




Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 18, 2018, 07:13:33 PM
Hi Erfinder
H re is that drawing again by Skipperbythesea (Gary Porter) you mentioned and pulsing-sequence...
Note the drawing does not have shared-slots, rather side by side arrangement.... also note the 6 pointed star in midde of it all too....
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 18, 2018, 07:51:14 PM
Message to group from Pierre

hello,
I have a question regarding a possible optimization of the dz generator.
I'm not a magnetic field specialist so I would like to know what would be a better design for the center fixed generator core. Should the center Iron core cover the whole field like the first picture or like second picture with the wire in the center of the I core like my first device?
I would like peoples opinions which I may consider using on my second prototype.

Thanks

Pierre


Text francais de Pierre
bonjour luc , j'aurait une question pour optimisé le dz générateur vu que je suis pas un spécialiste des champ magnétique j'aimerais savoir si le rotor qui génère la torsion du champ devrait-elle faire le champ au complet ou  concentrer le fil dans le centre mais sans couvrir le champ au complet. J'aimerais que quelqu'un me confirme ça pour aller chercher le maximum de puissance dans mon deuxième prototype.
merci
Pierre
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pedro1 on March 18, 2018, 08:23:58 PM
you can see the arduino program on youtube in a few minutes
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: memoryman on March 18, 2018, 08:25:29 PM
Imho, Pierre should first establish that he did what no other person has done before (as far as we know): making a self looping OU device.
To be credible, the video should show that there is no possibility of an external energy source. Proper input and load measurements (with good calibrated equipment) would be very useful. Until it has been clearly independently verified, this is a wild goose chase. This site is rife with claims that are unverified.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pedro1 on March 18, 2018, 09:12:27 PM
I'm sorry people like you who thinks I'm doing magic I thought I'd have a hand with you but I can see that you do not have any suspicion about me I just put the program on line arduino i hope you did it fast because i already took it off i did not want you to help but in the future it will make you get by without me seriously think i was working on it's concept of the generator dz for months to do more magic for those who think I wanted to make a money shot with youtube know that my account is not even paying I spent a lot of money and a lot of time in this project without expecting to have 1 cent in return I wanted to give a maximum of information for free for everyone I was offered money to continue my research but I refused too, so when you me said that nothing is proven in the free generator dz has you to believe me e or not but I know what I did and that no one else had yet to think to do and my video proves good luck to all for those who want to replicate the generator dz I will come back maybe one day with a functional prototype anyway I used to work alone to read comments like that I wonder why and thank you to the other who believes in the generator dz I think it's the future.
                                                                                                                                                                                             pierre cotnoir
bon j'en ai mare des gens comme vous qui pense que je fait de la magie je pensait avoir un coup de main de votre par mais je voie que vous n'avez de la suspicion envers moi  je venais de mettre en ligne le program de l'arduino j'espère que vous avez fait vite parceque je l'ai déja enlever  je ne voulait que vous aidez mais a l'avenir il vous feras vous débrouiller sans moi pensez vous sérieusement que j'ai travailler sur se concept du dz générateur pendant des mois pour faire de la magie ,de plus pour ceux qui pense que je voulait faire un coup d'argent avec youtube sachez que mon compte n'est même pas payant j'ai dépensé beaucoup d'argent et énormément de temps dans ce projet sans m'attendre d'avoir 1 cent en retour j'ai voulue donner une maximum d'information gratuitement pour tout le monde je me suis fait offrir de l'argent pour pousuivre mes recherche mais j'ai refuser aussi, alors quand vous me dite que rien n'est prouvez dans le dz générateur libre a vous  de me croire ou pas mais moi je sait ce que j'ai fait et que personne d'autre n'avait encore penser a faire et ma vidéo la prouve, bonne chance a tous pour ceux qui veulent répliquer le dz générateur je reviendrai peut être un jour avec un prototype fonctionel de toute façon j'ai l'habitude de travailler seul a lire des commentaire comme ca je me demande bien pourquoi et merci au autre qui croit au dz générateur je pense que c'est   l'avenir.                                                                       
                                                                  pierre cotnoir
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 18, 2018, 09:30:07 PM
What I suggest is that Pierre makes a second prototype exactly the same and confirms that it works overunity, then after that he can start changing things, but only one by one, e.g. replace relays by transistors, check if it still works, change the shape of the center coil, check if it still works, etc.

In that way we will find out step by step what is important for the operation of this device.

With his help we have currently figured out how the coils in the stator should be winded and positioned.

What we need next is a full schematic of his setup (including the coils, relays, transistors, etc) and the Arduino sequence and timings for switching the 36 coils.

With respect to his device, most of us take him as an honest man who speaks the truth. I personally assume he is not making false claims. If he is, he should think about all the time and money people are spending here on trying to replicate his device and make suggestions to improve it.

One simple test Pierre can do is to plug in an old fashioned 100W light bulb and let it run for 5-10mins self-looped to show that the device is really self-sustainable and not running form the caps.

With respect to his question about making a different rotor:
1. A full sized round rotor would break the 3:2 asymmetry of the current device (but since we don't know it's operating principle, it's not clear if it is important to retain it).
2. A narrower center coil might be better to avoid pole fold back through the edges of center coil, but making it too narrow would increase the magnetic resistance of the center coil and allow for less flux through that coil, thus lower output.

PmgR
====
* Truthfulness * Compassion * Forbearance * www.falundafa.org (http://www.falundafa.org)


French translation of PmgR post

Ce que je suggère, c'est que Pierre fasse un deuxième prototype exactement le même et confirme que cela donne de la surunité, après, il peut commencer à faire des changements une chose à la fois, par ex. remplacer les relais par des transistors, vérifier si cela fonctionne encore, changer la forme de la bobine centrale, vérifier si elle fonctionne toujours, etc.
De cette façon, nous allons découvrir étape par étape ce qui est important pour le fonctionnement de cet appareil.Avec son aide, nous avons actuellement compris comment les bobines du stator doivent être enroulées et positionnées.

Ce dont nous avons besoin ensuite est un schéma complet de son installation (y compris les bobines, les relais, les transistors, etc) et la séquence Arduino et les horaires de commutation des 36 bobines.

En ce qui concerne son appareil, la plupart d'entre nous le prennent comme un homme honnête qui dit la vérité. Personnellement, je suppose qu'il ne fait pas de fausses déclarations. S'il l'est, il devrait penser à tout le temps et l'argent que les gens dépensent ici pour essayer de reproduire son appareil et faire des suggestions pour l'améliorer.

Un test simple que Pierre peut faire est de brancher une ampoule à l'ancienne de 100W et de la laisser fonctionner pendant 5 à 10 minutes en auto-boucle pour montrer que l'appareil est vraiment autosuffisant et ne fonctionne pas juste des super cap.

En ce qui concerne sa question sur la fabrication d'un rotor différent:
1. Un rotor rond de taille normale casserait l'asymétrie 3: 2 du dispositif actuel (mais puisque nous ne savons pas son principe de fonctionnement, il n'est pas clair s'il est important de le conserver).
2. Une bobine centrale plus étroite pourrait être préférable d'éviter le repliement du pôle à travers les bords de la bobine centrale, mais en la rendant trop étroite augmenterait la résistance magnétique de la bobine centrale et réduirait le flux à travers cette bobine.

PmgR
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 18, 2018, 10:19:13 PM
This is an Achilles heel:
SONGLE RELAY
http://www.circuitbasics.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/SRD-05VDC-SL-C-Datasheet.pdf

Max. ON/OFF Switching
Mechanically   300 operation/min
Electrically        30 operation/min

Life Expectancy
Mechanically   10^7    Min. (no load)
Electrically     10^5  operations. Min. (at rated coil voltage)

So I hope the finding of real OU Can be noted fast before the relays crashes

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 18, 2018, 11:26:07 PM

1: https://youtu.be/7vN0wpY2lok

2: https://youtu.be/7EHOyN6FwWE

3: https://youtu.be/kJdOJybH1LY

4: https://youtu.be/RKkCQlPJ8wM

5: https://youtu.be/WFRmhGIaWoI

6: https://youtu.be/QqzFRzILUC8
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: iflewmyown on March 19, 2018, 01:04:49 AM
Very nice job, thank you for taking the time to video the process.
Garry
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 19, 2018, 04:00:12 AM
Wow Luc, simply amazing the kind of craftmanship you put into this! Great videos!

PmgR
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: TinselKoala on March 19, 2018, 04:01:36 AM
Luc...
Could you please ask Pierre to publish his Arduino code sketch? I think our being able to examine and analyze the sketch would clear up a lot of uncertainty about how the stator is wound and electrically sequenced to produce the effect he demonstrates.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: TinselKoala on March 19, 2018, 04:08:49 AM
This is an Achilles heel:
SONGLE RELAY
http://www.circuitbasics.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/SRD-05VDC-SL-C-Datasheet.pdf (http://www.circuitbasics.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/SRD-05VDC-SL-C-Datasheet.pdf)

Max. ON/OFF Switching
Mechanically   300 operation/min
Electrically        30 operation/min

Life Expectancy
Mechanically   10^7    Min. (no load)
Electrically     10^5  operations. Min. (at rated coil voltage)

So I hope the finding of real OU Can be noted fast before the relays crashes

Thanks seaad for pointing this out. The relay lifespan and maximum actuation speed puts some real practical limits on this device. Perhaps these parameters have already been exceeded, in fact. How long can the device actually operate before relays begin to fail? These relays are intended for applications such as switching power on and off to television sets, where the actuation rate is actually very low and the total actuations may be only thousands of times before the whole TV is thrown away and replaced with a new product. To achieve a 60 Hz output from Pierre's device, using a bank of these relays... 
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 19, 2018, 04:47:39 AM
Very nice job, thank you for taking the time to video the process.
Garry

Thanks Garry for the appreciation :)


Wow Luc, simply amazing the kind of craftmanship you put into this! Great videos!

PmgR

Thanks PmgR for your appreciation as well


Luc...
Could you please ask Pierre to publish his Arduino code sketch? I think our being able to examine and analyze the sketch would clear up a lot of uncertainty about how the stator is wound and electrically sequenced to produce the effect he demonstrates.

francais
Luc ...
Pourriez-vous demander à Pierre de publier son croquis de code Arduino? Je pense que le fait d'être en mesure d'examiner et d'analyser le croquis éclaircirait beaucoup d'incertitude sur la façon dont le stator est enroulé et séquencé électriquement pour produire l'effet qu'il démontre.

That's been on top of my list but I didn't want to ask until I could show that I'm a serious builder, experimenter (not just a taker). I think Pierre may see that now.
Partzman has confirmed today that he received the Mega 2560R3 and 20 of the L298N H-bridge but he's still expecting more L298N ordered from Georgia, USA any day now.
So I asked him to wait to send till he receives mail tomorrow as I may need 30 H-Bridge to possibly get it to work in a similar configuration as Pierre's relays.
I will ask Pierre if he's ready to share the Arduino code sketch he wrote to operate his prototype relays so I can test my replication with it.

français
Cela a été au sommet de ma liste mais je ne voulais pas demander jusqu'à ce que je puisse montrer que je suis un constructeur, expérimentateur sérieux (pas seulement ici pour prendre).
Je pense que Pierre peut voir ça maintenant.
Partzman a confirmé aujourd'hui qu'il a reçu le Mega 2560R3 et 20 pont  L298N, mais il attend toujours pour plus de L298N commandée de la Géorgie, aux États-Unis n'importe de quel jour.
Je lui ai donc demandé d'attendre jusqu'à ce qu'il reçoive le courrier demain car il me faudrait peut-être 30 L298N pour ma réplique fonctionne dans une configuration similaire à celle des relais de Pierre.
Je vais demander a Pierre s'il est prêt à partager son croquis de code Arduino qu'il a écrit et utilisé sur son prototype afin de tester ma réplication.

Luc
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: TinselKoala on March 19, 2018, 05:03:14 AM
Hmmm... I see DigiKey has the L298N for $43.65 for 10 units.... free energy certainly isn't cheap is it!    :'(

And this application will certainly need a printed circuit board to mount and route 30 of these devices... which by the way only handle about 2 amps per channel and will probably require heatsinks.

Has the PCB been designed yet?


(OH... now I see the module board photo. Well at least that solves some of the problems...)
It's hard for me to believe that those inexpensive modules from China will have genuine L298N parts on them, since the whole module is quite a bit cheaper than a bare chip from DigiKey.



Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 19, 2018, 05:10:30 AM
Hmmm... I see DigiKey has the L298N for $43.65 for 10 units.... free energy certainly isn't cheap is it!    :'(

And this application will certainly need a printed circuit board to mount and route 30 of these devices... which by the way only handle about 2 amps per channel and will probably require heatsinks.

Has the PCB been designed yet?


(OH... now I see the module board photo. Well at least that solves some of the problems...)

I found some on ebay  https://www.ebay.com/itm/222461752336 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/222461752336)  from Georgia, USA  5 for $9.95 with delivery. Can't beat that!
Already mounted on PC board with connection terminals and heat sink included. See below picture.

Luc
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 19, 2018, 05:14:07 AM
Here is my latest take on Pierre's coil configuration and how coils are connected to each other, please see the attached PDF. It also takes into account the two different current directions that Pierre explains in his latest video. All coils are looped back onto eachother as well.

I believe this is the correct configuration in terms of coil winding and positioning (same as Luc did in his videos), but please check how each coil connects back to the next one. Eventually going around (I didn't draw all of the connections), the last coil_36 connects back to coil_1.

Of course any and all feedback is appreciated!

Enjoy, PmgR
====
Help end the persecution of Falun Gong * www.faluninfo.net (http://www.faluninfo.net) * www.stoporganharvesting.org (http://www.stoporganharvesting.org)
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on March 19, 2018, 05:42:19 AM
@Luc

Nice work on the motor winding videos. Thank you for the translations.

Here is a quick tutorial on that L298n board.
https://tronixlabs.com.au/news/tutorial-l298n-dual-motor-controller-module-2a-and-arduino

@Pierre, thanks for sharing.

Some suggestions:

- Remove the resistor the biggest loss in system, pre-charge the capacitors externally to about 20volts then place/switch into system. The only place you need the resistor is in the pre-charge stage so you can mitigate in-rush current.

- Not sure what your capacitors board max current rating is, but increase wire diameter to caps. I'm using 4/0 AWG for a initially pre-charged 96v@78F ultracap bank which is in parallel with a solar battery bank this is for 6kw, no issues with heating and no resistors required.

- In the graph you drew in Part 5 of your video where you draw the noisy peak power. Could you create a new branch of the code so it only sweeps/switches the peak power area instead of the entire set? This would be very telling and important if the effect remains because of the moving magnetic field or something else. This would only require a change to the code nothing else.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 19, 2018, 05:50:58 AM
Awesome job PmgR

I looked over your pdf  (attached below) of all coil positions and connections and all looks perfect.
The pdf looks so professional man! ... thanks for the great job and sharing it.

Luc

français

Super travail PmgR
J'ai regardé votre pdf (ci-joint) de toutes les positions de la bobine et les connexions et tout semble parfait.
Le document pdf a l'air si professionnel! ... merci pour l'excellent travail et le partage
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Jeg on March 19, 2018, 07:43:14 AM
Hi Luc
Well done mate, very professional and stress free videos from your part. Thumps up!
I wonder where did you find these nice looking plastic slot-covers for your coils. I am afraid that i have to make them by my self as i don't find any ready solution in my local market.

Hi Pierre.
It is difficult for someone to suggest a topology for the receiver coil when the process is not yet fully transparent. So only assumptions can be made as for an answer to your question. I see that your stator has enough depth to fit more coil-receivers independently working or connected in parallel for greater current. Perhaps a star like core would also work fine.

Regards   

Regards
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Jeg on March 19, 2018, 07:46:49 AM
Pmgr
Thanks a lot for this great simulations. Is it out of a commercial software?
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: konehead on March 19, 2018, 08:41:21 AM
Hi Luc
For Pierre, my two cents worth of advice:
I would say the circular inner core will pull out lots more power, however there may be unforeseen complications, and it could cause overloading to primary inducing into it, and there is  "backup" and suddenly the system draws 10 times more power in the input but I don't know...just leave everything the same, then try the new rotor....
Someone said that the core should be "AC friendly" so this means laminate steel, and the stell plates insulated too from one another too with varnish or whatever...
So be careful! Do not ruin or destroy what you have!!  - proceed one step at a time so you can always step back and correct.  You know all this I am sure
Keep going and don't stop eh!

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 19, 2018, 08:42:19 AM
Pmgr
Thanks a lot for this great simulations. Is it out of a commercial software?
I use FEMM. It's open source.


PmgR
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: iflewmyown on March 19, 2018, 09:26:38 AM
PmgR, Very nice work also. Thanks
Garry
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: tinman on March 19, 2018, 01:37:16 PM
1: https://youtu.be/7vN0wpY2lok

2: https://youtu.be/7EHOyN6FwWE

3: https://youtu.be/kJdOJybH1LY

4: https://youtu.be/RKkCQlPJ8wM

5: https://youtu.be/WFRmhGIaWoI

6: https://youtu.be/QqzFRzILUC8

Even if nothing becomes of it Luc,that winding job is something to be proud of.

Well done


Brad
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Belfior on March 19, 2018, 01:43:49 PM
I think coil winding is the reason why OU is still hiding...
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 19, 2018, 02:32:13 PM
Hi Luc
Well done mate, very professional and stress free videos from your part. Thumps up!
I wonder where did you find these nice looking plastic slot-covers for your coils. I am afraid that i have to make them by my self as i don't find any ready solution in my local market.

Regards

Thanks mate!
I was able to salvaged all those plastic slot protectors from the original windings.

Regards

Luc

Even if nothing becomes of it Luc,that winding job is something to be proud of.

Well done

Brad

Thanks mate ;)

Luc
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 19, 2018, 02:47:24 PM

Conseils de DreamThinkBuild pour Pierre en français
Quelques suggestions:
- Retirez (éliminer) la résistance car c'est la plus grande perte de votre système, pré-charger les super cap à l'extérieur à environ 20 volts puis placer / basculer dans le système. Le seul endroit où vous avez besoin de la résistance est dans la phase de pré-charge afin que vous puissiez atténuer le courant d'appel.
- Vous ne savez pas quelle est la valeur nominale maximale de vos super cap, mais augmentez le diamètre du fil aux super cap.
Moi j'utilise du 4 AWG pour une banque de 96 ultracap 78F initialement préchargée qui est en parallèle avec une banque de batteries solaires ceci pour 6kw avec aucun problème de chauffage et aucune résistance requise.
- Dans le graphique, vous avez dessiné dans la partie 5 de votre vidéo où vous dessinez la puissance crête bruyante. Pourriez-vous créer une nouvelle branche du code afin qu'elle ne balaye / permute que la zone de puissance de crête au lieu de la totalité de l'ensemble? Ce serait très révélateur et important si l'effet reste à cause du champ magnétique en mouvement ou autre chose. Cela nécessiterait seulement une modification du code et rien d'autre.


Conseils de Jeg pour Pierre en français

Salut Pierre.
Il est difficile pour quelqu'un de proposer une topologie pour ta bobine réceptrice lorsque le processus n'est pas encore totalement transparent. Donc, seulement des hypothèses peuvent être faites pour une réponse à votre question. Je vois que votre stator a assez de profondeur pour s'adapter à plus de récepteurs de bobine fonctionnant indépendamment ou connectés en parallèle pour un courant plus élevé. Peut-être qu'un noyau en étoile comme dessin ci-dessous fonctionnerait bien?


Conseils de konehead pour Pierre en français
Mes conseils pour Pierre:
On dirais que le noyau interne circulaire tirera beaucoup plus de puissance, mais il peut y avoir des complications imprévues, et il pourrait causer une surcharge à l'induction primaire, et il y a "sauvegarde" et soudainement le système tire 10 fois plus de puissance dans l'entrée mais je ne sais pas ... laisse tout pareil et essaie le nouveau rotor ....
Quelqu'un a dit que le noyau devrait être "pour AC" donc cela signifie acier laminé, et les plaques d'acier isolées les une dans les autres avec du vernis ou autre chose ...
Donc sois prudent! Ne pas ruiner ou détruire ce que vous avez !! - procéder étape par étape afin que vous puissiez toujours revenir en arrière et corriger. Vous savez tout cela, j'en suis sûr
Continuez et ne vous arrêtez pas!
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: cheors on March 19, 2018, 03:36:52 PM
Thank you Luc for these texts also in French.
It helps francophones like me a lot.

Merci Luc pour ces textes  aussi en français.
Cela aide beaucoup les francophones comme moi
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: MichelM on March 19, 2018, 04:22:16 PM
Je voudrais partager avec vous une réflexion sur l'alimentation des bobines.
Je me trompe peut-être, surtout si ma compréhension du cycle n'est pas correcte. Vous pouvez me donner votre avis.
En examinant attentivement la vidéo de Pierre avec le schéma des 36 bobines,
j'en ai déduit que le nombre de relais peut être réduit à 24 au total au lieu de 72, et le nombre des transistors pour la commande des relais peut être ramené à 12 au lieu de 36,

Pour les relais, il faut :
(12 relais pour l'alimentation des bobines en courant positif (+),
et 12 relais pour l'alimentation des bobines en courant négatif (-),
Chaque relais doit alimenter 3 connexions, dont le détail est indiqué ci-dessous.
Le relais n° 1 (+ positif) est fermé en même temps que le relais n° 1 (- négatif),
puis Le relais n° 2 (+) est fermé en même temps que le relais n° 2 (-),
puis Le relais n° 3 (+), etc.
L'ouverture des relais pour la coupure du courant doit respecter ce qu'à indiqué Pierre.

Dans les tableaux ci-dessous, entre les parenthèses (), il faut lire "fil reliant les deux bobines dont les numéros sont indiqués).
Les séquences de fermeture des relais pour un stator à 36 fentes et 36 bobines seraient, dans ce cas :

Pour la polarité positive (+) :

{
[(36- 1),(12-13),(24-25)],   // relais 1 (+) alimente les fils reliant les bobines 36 à 1, 12 à 13 et 24 à 25
[( 1- 2),(13-14),(25-26)],   // relais 2 (+) alimente les fils reliant les bobines 1 à 2, 13 à 14 et 25 à 26
[( 2- 3),(14-15),(26-27)],   // relais 3 (+) alimente les fils reliant les bobines 2 à 3, 14 à 15 et 26 à 27
[( 3- 4),(15-16),(27-28)],   // relais 4 (+) alimente les fils reliant les bobines 3 à 4, 15 à 16 et 27 à 28
[( 4- 5),(16-17),(28-29)],   // relais 5 (+), etc...
[( 5- 6),(17-18),(29-30)],   // relais 6 (+)
[( 6- 7),(18-19),(30-31)],   // relais 7 (+)
[( 7-08),(19-20),(31-32)],   // relais 8 (+)
[( 8- 9),(20-21),(32-33)],   // relais 9 (+)
[( 9-10),(21-22),(33-34)],   // relais 10 (+)
[(10-11),(22-23),(34-35)],   // relais 11 (+)
[(11-12),(23-24),(35-36)]   // relais 12 (+)
}


Pour la polarité négative (-) :

{
[( 6- 7),(18-19),(30-31)],   // relais 1 (-) alimente les fils reliant les bobines 6 à 7, 18 à 19 et 30 à 31
[( 7- 08),(19-20),(31-32)],   // relais 2 (-) alimente les fils reliant les bobines 7 à 8, 19 à 20 et 31 à 32
[( 8- 9),(20-21),(32-33)],   // relais 3 (-) alimente les fils reliant les bobines 8 à 9, 20 à 21 et 32 à 33
[( 9-10),(21-22),(33-34)],   // relais 4 (-) alimente les fils reliant les bobines 9 à 10, 21 à 22 et 33 à 34
[(10-11),(22-23),(34-35)],   // relais 5 (-), etc...
[(11-12),(23-24),(35-36)],   // relais 6 (-)
[(12-13),(24-25),(36- 1)],   // relais 7 (-)
[(13-14),(25-26),( 1- 2)],   // relais 8 (-)
[(14-15),(26-27),( 2- 3)],   // relais 9 (-)
[(15-16),(27-28),( 3- 4)],   // relais 10 (-)
[(16-17),(28-29),( 4- 5)],   // relais 11 (-)
[(17-18),(29-30),( 5- 6)]   // relais 12 (-)
}

Pour les transistors :
Chaque transistor doit actionner 2 relais :
n° 1 (+) et n° 1 (-), puis n° 2 (+) et n° 2 (-), etc...

Il faut évidemment bien calibrer les transistors ainsi que les relais qui auront à faire circuler une intensité de courant plus importante.


Eng. I would like to share with you my thoughts and alternate suggestions of powering the stator coils.
I may be wrong, especially if my understanding of the cycle is not correct. You can give me your opinion on that.
By carefully examining Pierre's video with the schematic of the 36 coils,
I deduced that the number of relays can be reduced to 24 in total instead of 72, and the number of transistors for relay control can be reduced to 12 instead of 36,

The necessary relays are:
(12 relays for the coils positive current (+),
and 12 relays for the negative current (-),
Each relay must feed 3 connections, details are below.
Relay # 1 (+ positive) is closed at the same time as Relay # 1 (- negative),
then relay no. 2 (+) is closed together with relay no. 2 (-),
then Relay # 3 (+), etc.
The opening of the relays (cut power) must be as Pierre indicated.

In the tables below, between the parentheses (), you must read "wire connecting the two coils whose numbers are indicated).
The closing sequences of the relays for a stator with 36 slots and 36 coils would be, in this case:

For the positive polarity (+):

{
[(36- 1), (12-13), (24-25)], relay 1 (-) supplies the wires connecting the coils 36 to 1, 12 to 13 and 24 to 25
[(1- 2), (13-14), (25-26)], relay 2 (-) supplies the wires connecting the coils 1 to 2, 13 to 14 and 25 to 26
[(2- 3), (14-15), (26-27)], relay 3 (-) supplies the wires connecting the coils 2 to 3, 14 to 15 and 26 to 27
[(3-4), (15-16), (27-28)], relay 4 (-) supplies the wires connecting the coils 3 to 4, 15 to 16 and 27 to 28
[(4-5), (16-17), (28-29)], // relay 5 (-), etc ...
[(5-6), (17-18), (29-30)], relay 6 (-)
[(6-7), (18-19), (30-31)], relay 7 (-)
[(7-08), (19-20), (31-32)], relay 8 (-)
[(8-9), (20-21), (32-33)], relay 9 (-)
[(9-10), (21-22), (33-34)], relay 10 (-)
[(10-11), (22-23), (34-35)], relay 11 (-)
[(11-12), (23-24), (35-36)] // relay 12 (-)
}


For the negative (-) polarity:

{
[(6-7), (18-19), (30-31)], relay 1 (-) feeds the wires connecting the coils 6 to 7, 18 to 19 and 30 to 31
[(7- 08), (19-20), (31-32)], relay 2 (-) supplies the wires connecting the coils 7 to 8, 19 to 20 and 31 to 32
[(8- 9), (20-21), (32-33)], relay 3 (-) feeds the wires connecting the coils 8 to 9, 20 to 21 and 32 to 33
[(9-10), (21-22), (33-34)], relay 4 (-) supplies the wires connecting the coils 9 to 10, 21 to 22 and 33 to 34
[(10-11), (22-23), (34-35)], relay 5 (-), etc ...
[(11-12), (23-24), (35-36)], relay 6 (-)
[(12-13), (24-25), (36-1)], relay 7 (-)
[(13-14), (25-26), (1- 2)], relay 8 (-)
[(14-15), (26-27), (2- 3)], relay 9 (-)
[(15-16), (27-28), (3-4)], relay 10 (-)
[(16-17), (28-29), (4-5)], relay 11 (-)
[(17-18), (29-30), (5-6)] // relay 12 (-)
}

For transistors:
Each transistor must operate 2 relays:
n ° 1 (+) and n ° 1 (-), then n ° 2 (+) and n ° 2 (-), etc ...

It is obviously necessary to calibrate the transistors as well as the relays to circulate a higher current intensity.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: cheors on March 19, 2018, 06:18:02 PM
@MichelM :
N'oublies pas qu'il faut aussi activer 12 bobines à la fois,(Post 258)

Do not forget that you also have to activate 12 coils at a time, (Post 258)

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: e2matrix on March 19, 2018, 06:31:57 PM
Awesome work Luc and Pmgr !   All very professional.   


I want to toss out some nibbles for thought which I hope for Luc's sake I am wrong but I was recently reminded of this.   I don't think this is what Erfinder is alluding to - just something which may have a remote chance of playing into the success of Pierre's device so take it for what it is.   I'm also factoring in the thought that anytime we change anything from an original build that we are playing with numbers and factors that can affect the outcome.   I'm referring to Telsa's mystical 3 6 9 information and especially the uniqueness of the number 9.   In Pierre's device his number of slots is a multiple of 9 and his number of relays and transistors are also a multiple of 9.  He also has 6 in there as 6 poles.   This is a nicely done video on the 3 6 9 and especially in the later part where he talks about the uniqueness of the number 9 :  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOJ50EUbWzg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOJ50EUbWzg)


I know this may seem like a lot of woo-woo but considering the lack of OU devices it may be something to think about .   I do hope for Luc with all the work he put into that beautiful coil winding job this is not a factor but if his build doesn't produce OU it might be something to consider in future builds.


   Also just a note on the low cost of products from China.  While some may be of lesser quality not all are low quality and cost is a whole different world over there.   I have products from China that cost 1/20th of USA made items and one of them closely examined by an American manufacturer said they could not tell the difference in quality.   So a USA made item costing $1000 can cost only $50 from China but still have the same high quality.  Remember China is a Communist country and it's a whole different economy and culture there where people may have no choice in what job to take or how much they are paid.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 19, 2018, 06:48:33 PM

@MichelM :
I believe you are correct. The three N-poles can be driven together and the three S-poles can be driven together, so that would reduce the number of relays and transistors by a factor of 3. Each relay would need to have 3 isolated switches (one for each N/S pole). And you can still step one slot at a time or turn two slots next to eachother on at the same time.
PmgR
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 19, 2018, 07:03:03 PM
Awesome work Luc and Pmgr !   All very professional.   
I want to toss out some nibbles for thought which I hope for Luc's sake I am wrong but I was recently reminded of this.   I don't think this is what Erfinder is alluding to - just something which may have a remote chance of playing into the success of Pierre's device so take it for what it is.   I'm also factoring in the thought that anytime we change anything from an original build that we are playing with numbers and factors that can affect the outcome.   I'm referring to Telsa's mystical 3 6 9 information and especially the uniqueness of the number 9.   In Pierre's device his number of slots is a multiple of 9 and his number of relays and transistors are also a multiple of 9.  He also has 6 in there as 6 poles.   This is a nicely done video on the 3 6 9 and especially in the later part where he talks about the uniqueness of the number 9 :  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOJ50EUbWzg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOJ50EUbWzg)

I do hope for Luc with all the work he put into that beautiful coil winding job this is not a factor but if his build doesn't produce OU it might be something to consider in future builds.

Also just a note on the low cost of products from China.  While some may be of lesser quality not all are low quality and cost is a whole different world over there.   I have products from China that cost 1/20th of USA made items and one of them closely examined by an American manufacturer said they could not tell the difference in quality.   So a USA made item costing $1000 can cost only $50 from China but still have the same high quality.  Remember China is a Communist country and it's a whole different economy and culture there where people may have no choice in what job to take or how much they are paid.

français
Super travail Luc et Pmgr! Tout est très professionnel.
Je veux jeter des grignotements pour la pensée que j'espère pour l'amour de Luc, je me trompe mais cela m'a été rappelé récemment. Je ne pense pas que ce soit ce à quoi Erfinder fait allusion - juste quelque chose qui peut avoir une faible chance de jouer dans le succès de l'appareil de Pierre alors prenez-le pour ce qu'il est. Je pense aussi que chaque fois que nous changeons quelque chose d'une construction originale que nous jouons avec des nombres et des facteurs qui peuvent affecter le résultat. Je veux parler de l'information mystique de Telsa et surtout de l'unicité du nombre 9. Dans l'appareil de Pierre, son nombre de slots est un multiple de 9 et son nombre de relais et de transistors est aussi un multiple de 9. Il a aussi 6 là comme 6 pôles. Ceci est une vidéo bien fait sur le 3 6 9 et surtout dans la dernière partie où il parle de l'unicité du numéro 9: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOJ50EUbWzg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOJ50EUbWzg)

J'espère pour Luc avec tout le travail qu'il a mis dans ce beau travail de bobinage ce n'est pas un facteur mais si sa construction ne produit pas d'OU, cela pourrait être quelque chose à considérer dans les futures constructions.

Aussi juste une note sur le faible coût des produits en provenance de Chine. Alors que certains peuvent être de moindre qualité, tous ne sont pas de qualité médiocre et le coût est un monde complètement différent là-bas. J'ai des produits en provenance de Chine qui coûtent 1 / 20ème des articles fabriqués aux Etats-Unis et l'un d'entre eux examiné de près par un fabricant américain a déclaré qu'ils ne pouvaient pas faire la différence en termes de qualité. Ainsi, un article américain de 1000 $ peut coûter seulement 50 $ à la Chine, tout en conservant la même qualité. Rappelez-vous que la Chine est un pays communiste et qu'il y a une économie et une culture totalement différentes là où les gens n'ont pas le choix du travail à faire ou du salaire.

Thanks e2matrix for your post and positive comment.
I'm aware of the risks of making a change or changes. This build is a first step to observer what happens when we have this interesting combination of components and switching. I've never tried it and that alone will be satisfactory for me to observe. If more comes out of it ;) then that's a bonus.

Regrads

Luc

français
Merci e2matrix pour votre message et commentaire positif.
Je suis conscient des risques de faire un changement ou des changements. Cette construction est une première étape pour l'observateur de ce qui se passe lorsque nous avons cette combinaison intéressante de composants et de commutation. Je ne l'ai jamais essayé et cela seul sera satisfaisant pour moi d'observer. Si plus vient à sortir ;) , alors c'est un bonus.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 19, 2018, 07:22:43 PM
@MichelM :
I believe you are correct. The three N-poles can be driven together and the three S-poles can be driven together, so that would reduce the number of relays and transistors by a factor of 3. Each relay would need to have 3 isolated switches (one for each N/S pole). And you can still step one slot at a time or turn two slots next to eachother on at the same time.
PmgR

français
@MichelM:
Je crois que vous avez raison. Les trois pôles N peuvent être entraînés ensemble et les trois pôles S peuvent être entraînés ensemble, ce qui réduirait le nombre de relais et de transistors d'un facteur 3. Chaque relais nécessiterait 3 commutateurs isolés (un pour chaque N). / S pole). Et vous pouvez toujours avancer d'un créneau à la fois ou tourner deux fentes l'une à côté de l'autre en même temps.
PmgR

MichelM, I also agree with PmgR. However, using one single switch to feed 3 coils means 3 times the current thorugh the switch. We have to weigh all the pros, cons and costs before making such a change.
For me at this time I wouldn't consider it as I'm already changing 2 things, 30 section vs a 36 section stator and solid state switching vs mechanical relays.
However, I do appreciate you or anyone making suggestions for future builds.

Regards

Luc

français
MichelM, je suis également d'accord avec PmgR. Cependant, l'utilisation d'un seul interrupteur pour alimenter 3 bobines signifie 3 fois le courant dans l'interrupteur. Nous devons peser tous les avantages, les inconvénients et les coûts avant de faire un tel changement.
Pour moi en ce moment je ne le considérerais pas comme je suis déjà en train de changer 2 choses, 30 sections contre un stator de 36 sections et une commutation à l'état solide contre des relais mécaniques.
Cependant, j'apprécie que vous ou quelqu'un fasse des suggestions pour les constructions future.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 19, 2018, 07:29:44 PM
Message to group from Pierre

hello,
I have a question regarding a possible optimization of the dz generator.
I'm not a magnetic field specialist so I would like to know what would be a better design for the center fixed generator core. Should the center Iron core cover the whole field like the first picture or like second picture with the wire in the center of the I core like my first device?
I would like peoples opinions which I may consider using on my second prototype.

Thanks

Pierre


Text francais de Pierre
bonjour luc , j'aurait une question pour optimisé le dz générateur vu que je suis pas un spécialiste des champ magnétique j'aimerais savoir si le rotor qui génère la torsion du champ devrait-elle faire le champ au complet ou  concentrer le fil dans le centre mais sans couvrir le champ au complet. J'aimerais que quelqu'un me confirme ça pour aller chercher le maximum de puissance dans mon deuxième prototype.
merci
Pierre


I would use the 4 pole rotor of a 1500 rpm alternator which can take plenty of turns. And the use a 4 pole distributed winding using 3 coils for each pole in in series. This way your two rotor phases will be the same. Salient rotor would be hard to get many turns on.


L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: MichelM on March 19, 2018, 07:48:31 PM
@Luc :
merci pour les traductions. Je suis aussi d'accord, qu'il vaut mieux, en premier lieu, répliquer aussi fidèlement que possible. Reproduire l'effet serait déjà très satisfaisant.
Les simplifications que je propose, même si on ne les applique pas dans l'immédiat, peuvent nous permettre de comprendre le fonctionnement du dispositif.

Eng. @Luc:
thanks for the translations. I also agree that it's better at first to replicate as faithfully as possible. To reproduce the effect would be very satisfactory.
The simplifications that I propose, even if we do not apply them in the immediate future, could help us to understand the functioning of the device.


@cheors
Sur le schéma de Pierre, toutes les bobines sont toujours sous tension, à chaque instant. Regardez, elles sont toutes reliées ensemble, de façon permanente, hors ou sous tension, même si le courant ne circule pas dans plusieurs bobines à certains moments. Ce sont les flux de courant qui s'inversent en fonction des commutations, entraînant une inversion des champs magnétiques.

Eng.
@cheors
In Pierre's diagram, all the coils are always energized at every moment. Look, they are all connected together, permanently, off or on, even if the current does not flow in several coils at certain times. It is the flow of current that reverses as a function of the commutations, causing a reversal of the magnetic fields.


@pmgr
Je crois que des relais simples à un seul commutateur suffisent, car c'est le même courant négatif, et le même courant positif qui alimente chaque bobine. Je ne vois pas de séparation dans les arrivées (+) ou les (-). Donc je pense qu'on peut utiliser des relais à un seul contact, avec une arrivée (+) ou (-) et trois fils en sortie, qui partent vers les bonnes bobines, selon les 2 tableaux que j'ai postés (Il faudrait modifier le tableau pour le stator de Luc à 30 fentes).
Sur le schéma de Pierre, le plus petit cercle relie toutes les bobines au négatif (-), et le plus grand cercle (extérieur) relie toutes les bobines au positif (+). Des circuits séparés n'apporteraient rien de plus. Le changement de polarité Nord et Sud se fait simplement par une habile inversion du sens du courant, en jouant avec les ouvertures et fermetures des relais.
Les flèches sur son schéma devraient toutes aller du négatif vers le positif (sens réel du courant), si on ne tiens pas compte du « flyback ». Il me semble que l'inversion de certaines flèches troublent la compréhension, à moins que je n'ai pas bien compris moi-même.

Eng. @pmgr
I think simple single-switch relays are enough, because it's the same negative current, and the same positive current that feeds each coil. I don't see a (+) or (-) on the input. So I think we can use relays with a single contact, with a (+) or (-) input and three wires on the output, which feed the appropiate coils according to the 2 tables that I posted (need to modify the table for Luc's 30 slot stator).
On Pierre's diagram, the smaller circle connects all the coils to the negative (-), and the larger (outer) circle connects all the coils to the positive (+). Separate circuits would bring nothing more. The change of polarity North and South is simply done by a current reversal and playing with the openings and closures of the relays.
The arrows on his diagram should all go from negative to positive (real current direction), if we ignore the flyback. It seems to me that the inversion of some arrows disturbs the understanding, unless I havn't understood it well myself?
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 19, 2018, 08:49:21 PM
Message received from partzman
I shipped 34 of the L298N plus one Mega 2560 via Fedex. You should receive it by Thursday at the latest.

français

Message reçu de partzman
J'ai expédié 34 L298N plus un Mega 2560 via Fedex. Vous devriez le recevoir jeudi au plus tard.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: partzman on March 19, 2018, 09:26:37 PM
Here is a test of 1/2 of the L298N red pcb dual H bridge that was sent to Luc.  The board uses an STMicroelectronics L298N in their Multiwatt 15 package and the smd diodes are M7 which is the 1N4000 series.  These will exhibit higher losses than Schottky diodes and the loss is somewhat evident in the scope shot below.  The device also uses bipolar transistors for output.

The test was run with a 22vdc supply using a 5mH linear inductor at the output terminals of one bridge. The input is two single pulses 180 degrees out-of-phase at 1kHz to allow the inductor to be charged to ~2 amps peak.

In the scope pix, CH1(yel) is the 1st input pulse and CH2(blu) is the 2nd input pulse.  CH3(pnk) is the output of the high side switch and CH4(grn) is the current thru the inductor.  The Math(red) channel is the mean power consumed from the supply resulting from the product of CH3 x CH4.

In observation of the test, the output current during the field collapse of the inductor is considerably less than the charge period indicating losses in the M7 diodes.  The input however is rather efficient with the input energy calculating to 19.68 x 500.3e-6 = 9.85mJ.  The inductor reaches a peak of 1.937A which then equates to 1.937^2 x 5e-3 x .5 = 9.38mJ for an efficiency of 9.38/9.85 = 95.2%

Edit: The dcr of the inductor is .6 ohm so there is a loss of 290uJ which should be accounted for.  This results in a more accurate efficiency of 9.09/9.85 = 92.3%.  Also note the onset of saturation at the current peak. 

Regards,
Pm

Edit2:  Translation by Luc-

français
Voici un test de la moitié du pont double H de la carte L298N rouge qui a été envoyé à Luc. La carte utilise un L298N de STMicroelectronics dans son boîtier Multiwatt 15 et les diodes smd sont M7, ce qui correspond à la série 1N4000. Ceux-ci présenteront des pertes plus élevées que les diodes Schottky et la perte est quelque peu évidente dans la portée tirée ci-dessous. L'appareil utilise également des transistors bipolaires pour la sortie.

Le test a été effectué avec une alimentation de 22 Vcc utilisant un inducteur linéaire de 5 mH aux bornes de sortie d'un pont. L'entrée est composée de deux impulsions uniques déphasées de 180 degrés à 1 kHz pour permettre à l'inductance d'être chargée à environ 2 ampères.

Dans le scope, CH1 (jaune) est la 1ère impulsion d'entrée et CH2 (bleu) est la 2ème impulsion d'entrée. CH3 (rose) est la sortie du commutateur côté haut et CH4 (vert) est le courant à travers l'inductance. Le canal Math (rouge) est la puissance moyenne consommée à partir de l'alimentation résultant du produit de CH3 x CH4.

En observant l'essai, le courant de sortie pendant l'effondrement de l'inducteur sur le terrain est considérablement inférieur à la période de charge indiquant des pertes dans les diodes M7. L'entrée est cependant plutôt efficace avec l'énergie d'entrée calculée à 19.68 x 500.3e-6 = 9.85mJ. L'inducteur atteint un pic de 1,937A, ce qui équivaut à 1,937 ^ 2 x 5e-3 x 0,5 = 9,38 mJ pour un rendement de 9,38 / 9,85 = 95,2%

Edit: Le dcr de l'inductance est .6 ohm donc il y a une perte de 290uJ qui devrait être prise en compte. Cela donne un rendement plus précis de 9,09 / 9,85 = 92,3%. Notez également l'apparition de la saturation au pic actuel.

Cordialement,
Pm
 
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 19, 2018, 09:29:43 PM
English translation of MichelM last post
@pmgr
I think simple single-switch relays are enough, because it's the same negative current, and the same positive current that feeds each coil. I don't see a (+) or (-) on the input. So I think we can use relays with a single contact, with a (+) or (-) input and three wires on the output, which feed the appropiate coils according to the 2 tables that I posted (need to modify the table for Luc's 30 slot stator).
On Pierre's diagram, the smaller circle connects all the coils to the negative (-), and the larger (outer) circle connects all the coils to the positive (+). Separate circuits would bring nothing more. The change of polarity North and South is simply done by a current reversal and playing with the openings and closures of the relays.
The arrows on his diagram should all go from negative to positive (real current direction), if we ignore the flyback. It seems to me that the inversion of some arrows disturbs the understanding, unless I havn't understood it well myself?
No, I don't think that is correct because when the relay is open, you don't want the starting coil of the three N poles (or south poles) connected to each other, so you have to use separate contacts on the relay (otherwise you would be shorting part of the 36 series line of inductors). When the relay is closed, it indeed doesn't make a difference as all of them contact to +5V or GND. Also, as Luc stated, if it were ok (which it is not), the relay would be carrying three times the current (3 poles in parallel).
PmgR



Français
Non, je ne pense pas que ce soit correct car lorsque le relais est ouvert, vous ne voulez pas que la bobine de départ des trois pôles N (ou pôles sud) soit connectée entre eux, donc vous devez utiliser des contacts séparés sur le relais (sinon vous seriez en train de court-circuiter une partie de la ligne d'inductances de la série 36). Lorsque le relais est fermé, il ne fait en effet aucune différence car ils sont tous en contact avec + 5V ou GND. De plus, comme Luc l'a dit, si ça allait (ce qui n'est pas le cas), le relais porterait trois fois le courant (trois pôles en parallèle).
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 20, 2018, 02:23:43 AM
A new test with 8 U-cores, 8 coils and 8 steps. TWO moving magnetic fields, back and forth.

N <--> Output core <--> S    Mostly two coils (N)+(S) active

Vin=5.1V  Iin=~1.15A ,  Out 2.3V // 10 Ohm  Freq. out 100Hz  Efficiency ~ 9%
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: MichelM on March 20, 2018, 09:42:27 AM
Nous savons de Pierre qu'il s'agit d'un champ magnétique à 6 pôles, et ces pôles sont configurés NSNSNS alternativement.
Les 6 séries de 6 bobines (36 bobines) changent de polarité, une bobine à la fois dans chaque série mais en même temps, dans le sens de la rotation générale.
Dans les images ci-dessous, l'image 1 est ce qui se passe dans la phase 1 (démarrage), et les images suivantes est ce qui se passe en suivant, toujours selon les indications que Pierre nous a données.
Pierre : "Chaque paire de chiffres que je lui ai donné (à konehead) est une bobine qui s'entrelace et sont toutes connectées en série."
Pierre : "Exemple de commutation: 1 on, 2 on, 1 off, 3 on, 2 off etc. "

Sans s'occuper du nombre de relais, sur les images, je pense que c'est bien ce qui se passe au niveau des connections électriques.
Cela permet de confirmer qu'il n'y a jamais de coupure du courant ; et de constater (image 3) que le courant de doit pas ou peu passer dans les bobines situées entre les connexions rapprochées (n°2, 8, 14, 20, 26 et 32) - le courant préférant toujours le chemin le plus court.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Andy71 on March 20, 2018, 12:43:24 PM
Hello Pierre Cotnoir
Can you help me with that.
Is the connection of the coils and the clock program so correct?
Best regards Andy

Wonderful work keeps it up.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Slider2732 on March 20, 2018, 05:18:03 PM
Attached is my version of the code for the Mega2560 and 2 comparison screenshots.
It has been posted on the 'OUR' forum, but may not have been seen. Feel free to amend, change, improve it of course.
I haven't posted here before due to the difficulty of scrolling across to read posts after large images are posted...but Stefan has new software rolling out and that hopefully solves it. 

Now...to address the IP issues and wotnot.
There's nothing here yet to get upset about. Why so strong and so derailing ?
Can stuff be Patented ? sure.
Ever tried it ?
I have a Patent with a fellow who paid for the whole thing. It must have cost $60K and more for the whole procedure until being granted !
Having IP ripped off is a valid concern in some ways. For example, an inventor might not be looking to profit from it, but someone will be. Look at what Gary Bluer went through with what was a freely open source and community driven project in the Slayer Exciter. Someone went off and Kickstarter'd it !
Personally, as creator of the Simple Wireless Electricity System (SWES) and SWES2, i've seen bunches of people run off and create videos or tutorials as though they came up with it. They have many more Subscribers, market it well etc.
BUT - it's surely not about making bank.
I don't really care - I missed out on the marketing, I missed out on the promotion, but wasn't doing it for that reason.
Anyone who researches just to keep stuff to themselves is wasting their own time. The big 'one up on you schmucks' only extends to the reflection in the mirror. China will back engineer it anyway and, you know what ? GREAT !
Isn't that the idea, to quit burning polluting fuels, quit having centralised energy and being reliant ? If they were really bothered about climate change they'd quit giving subsidies to oil companies.
If we here invest years of time, energy, money into something that ultimately comes right out of Shenzen for $99 who the hell cares ?
America won't build it - prove me wrong. I live in Oklahoma and we get taxed for having solar panels on our roofs LOL
http://www.climatecentral.org/news/oklahoma-solar-surcharge-bill-becomes-law-17335
No, this country will fight to keep research like this down to squabbles on an internet forum and if there isn't one, they'll steer one.
It will be other countries that benefit from scale production of a working device and that's another reason why we should never entertain any divide and conquer tactics in these forums. We all need each other.

Don't forget that the Smith Mundt Act was repealed, so there will also be propaganda of anything OU if you are in the USA. Imagine this on your nightly CNN newscast  "This device is already known to the State of California to emit fumes that will give your children Rabies. The Rabies is a Russian strain, proven by some source type people we heard it from, honest".
http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/14/u-s-repeals-propaganda-ban-spreads-government-made-news-to-americans/
 
Also, the flack is greatest when you are over the target.

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Andy71 on March 20, 2018, 05:55:13 PM
hi Guys
My previous project was a rebuilt engine.
24 coils driven by H bridge.
I will also take these H-bridges for the stator of Pierre Cotnoir.
Power per level depending on the FET around the 20 A.
This results in 2.5 A control of Pierre Cotnoir his coil no overheating.
Best regards Andy
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: iflewmyown on March 20, 2018, 08:55:57 PM
Please, we have 30 pages of good information and people working together for a common purpose. For many years Luc has built countless projects and shared all he found, that is a fact. I am an old man who spent 40 years trying to find or replicate free energy. I chose a long time ago not to share my failures but I would happily haved shared my success had I had one. I am working on a mechanical commutator design in case the relays fizzle and the mosfets don't work properly. Having built many mechanical commutators I sincerely hope the mosfets work. Let's ignore the rhetoric and proceed.
Thanks
Garry
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Andy71 on March 21, 2018, 06:53:24 AM
Hello Michel
There are many ways to control the coils of Pierre Cotnoir.
I will also try your suggestion.
My schematic, driver, program (pictures) has not been released in the forum.
I can not imagine what the problem is with the admin.
Is information withheld here?
Here is my first schedule program (one cycle), variations always possible.
R = relay
Plus Power Relay Contacts R1 - R36
Minus Power Relay Contacts R37 - R72, see pictures
Best regards Andy

              N                        S                        N                          S                     N                       S

Takt 1 (Spule 1 = R1 + R43); (Spule 7 = R43 + R 13); ( Spule 13 = R13 + R55); (Spule 19 = R55 + R25); (Spule 25 = R25 + R67); (Spule 31 = R67 + R37)

Takt 2 (Spule 2 = R2 + R44); (Spule 8 = R44 + R 14); ( Spule 14 = R14 + R56); ( Spule 14 = R14 + R56); (Spule 26 = R26 + R68); (Spule 26 = R26 + R68)

Takt 3 (Spule 3 = R3 + R45); (Spule 9 = R45 + R 15); ( Spule 15 = R15 + R57); (Spule 21 = R57 + R27); (Spule 27 = R27 + R69); (Spule 33 = R69 + R39)

Takt 4 (Spule 4 = R4 + R46); (Spule 10 = R46 + R 16); ( Spule 16 = R16 + R58); (Spule 22 = R58 + R28); (Spule 28 = R28 + R70); (Spule 34 = R70 + R40)

Takt 5 (Spule 5 = R5 + R47); (Spule 11 = R47 + R 17); ( Spule 17 = R17 + R59); (Spule 23 = R59 + R29); (Spule 29 = R29 + R71); (Spule 35 = R71 + R41)

Takt 6 (Spule 6 = R6 + R48); (Spule 12 = R48 + R 18); ( Spule 18 = R18 + R60); (Spule 24 = R60 + R30); (Spule 30 = R30 + R72); (Spule 30 = R30 + R72)


              S                         N                       S                         N                   S                      N

Takt 7 (Spule 1 = R37 + R7); (Spule 7 = R7 + R 49); ( Spule 13 = R49 + R19); (Spule 19 = R19 + R61); (Spule 25 = R61 + R31); (Spule 31 = R31+ R37)

Takt 8 (Spule 2 = R38 + R8); (Spule 8 = R8 + R 50); ( Spule 14 = R50 + R20); (Spule 20 = R20 + R62); (Spule 26 = R62 + R32); (Spule 32 = R32+ R38)

Takt 9 (Spule 3 = R39 + R9); (Spule 9 = R9 + R 51); ( Spule 15 = R51 + R21); (Spule 21 = R21 + R63); (Spule 27 = R63 + R33); (Spule 33 = R33+ R39)

Takt 10 (Spule 4 = R40 + R10); (Spule 10 = R10 + R 52); ( Spule 16 = R52 + R22); (Spule 22 = R22 + R64); (Spule 28 = R64 + R34); (Spule 34 = R34+ R40)

Takt 11 (Spule 5 = R41 + R11); (Spule 11 = R11 + R 53); ( Spule 17 = R53 + R23); (Spule 23 = R23 + R65); (Spule 29 = R65 + R35); (Spule 35 = R35+ R41)

Takt 12 (Spule 6 = R42 + R12); (Spule 12 = R12 + R 54); ( Spule 18 = R54 + R24); (Spule 24 = R24 + R66); (Spule 30 = R66 + R36); (Spule 36 = R36+ R42)
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 21, 2018, 02:25:34 PM

Moving on    Aller de l'avant


https://youtu.be/1K3i87xHbbg (https://youtu.be/1K3i87xHbbg)
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 21, 2018, 03:49:54 PM
Luc
Don't we have two neighbor coils on ?
First step, coil 1+2 then 2+3.
Perhaps you should widen the sec. core to 7 sections.
Just asking
Arne
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 21, 2018, 05:25:28 PM
I would use the 4 pole rotor of a 1500 rpm alternator which can take plenty of turns. And the use a 4 pole distributed winding using 3 coils for each pole in in series. This way your two rotor phases will be the same. Salient rotor would be hard to get many turns on.

L192
 
Fr.
J'utiliserais le rotor à 4 pôles d'un alternateur de 1500 tr / min qui peut prendre beaucoup de virages. Et l'utilisation d'un bobinage distribué à 4 pôles utilisant 3 bobines pour chaque pôle en série. De cette façon, vos deux phases de rotor seront les mêmes. Rotor saillant serait difficile d'obtenir beaucoup de tours.

 
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 21, 2018, 05:43:39 PM
Luc
Don't we have two neighbor coils on ?
First step, coil 1+2 then 2+3.
Perhaps you should widen the sec. core to 7 sections.
Just asking
Arne

français
Luc
N'avons-nous pas deux bobines voisines?
Première étape, bobine 1 + 2 puis 2 + 3.
Peut-être devriez-vous élargir la seconde. noyau à 7 sections.
Je ne faisais que demander

Not sure what you're trying to say Arne?
Pierre has confirmed there are 6 poles

So my 30 slots  /  6 poles =  5 coils or slots per pole
I cut my center core to magnetically couple with 5 coils or slot
We are not changing anything.
In Pierre's 36 slot he obviously has 6 coils or slots per pole and you can clearly see in the picture below his center core is exactly 6 slot wide.

Luc

français
Je ne suis pas sûr de ce que vous essayez de dire Arne?
Pierre a confirmé qu'il y a 6 pôles

Donc mes 30 fente / 6 pôles = 5 bobines ou fente par pôle
Je coupe mon noyau central pour coupler magnétiquement avec 5 bobines ou fente
Nous ne changeons rien.
Pierre a 36 fente, alors il a évidemment 6 bobines ou fentes par pôle et vous pouvez voir clairement dans l'image ci-dessous son noyau central est exactement 6 fentes de large.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 21, 2018, 06:07:37 PM
Luc
""Not sure what you're trying to say Arne?
Pierre has confirmed there are 6 poles""

 We still have 6 poles, but consisting of 2 coils side by side, displaces the magnetic field one step at a time while 1 coil is always on.
So to say make before breake.

See even Reply #373
Arne

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 21, 2018, 07:22:23 PM
Looking at the video with the microwave oven, the output current was similar to the input current with no load on the loop. When the MW was added the output went up to 11.5A but input remained the same indicating that it is load invariant. I suggest replacing the transformer with a switch mode power supply and remove the series resistor. The power supply will limit the super cap charge current. Then apply a 2 KW load and see if input current stays at 2A whilst maintaining 113-115V.


L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 21, 2018, 07:32:03 PM
First film at 13min 50sek --> input current falls to 1.6 - -1.5 A !! whem MWO is activated.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 21, 2018, 09:36:01 PM
Luc
""Not sure what you're trying to say Arne?
Pierre has confirmed there are 6 poles""

 We still have 6 poles, but consisting of 2 coils side by side, displaces the magnetic field one step at a time while 1 coil is always on.
So to say make before breake.

See even Reply #373
Arne

français
"" Pas sûr de ce que vous essayez de dire Arne?
Pierre a confirmé qu'il y a 6 pôles ""

Nous avons toujours 6 pôles, mais constitué de 2 bobines côte à côte, déplace le champ magnétique un pas à la fois tandis que 1 bobine est toujours active.
Donc pour dire faire avant breake. Voir réponse # 373

Yes Arne, that is the reality and I guess when those two coils are on together at the point the pole flips there's going to be an interesting event to observe ;)
Could be what Pierre was seeing on his scope, the WWW?... we will see 8)

Regards

Luc

français
Oui Arne, c'est la réalité et je suppose que lorsque ces deux bobines sont allumées ensemble au moment où le pôle change de direction, il va y avoir un événement intéressant à observer ;)
Peut-être que c'est ce que Pierre voyait sur son scope les ondes WWW? ... nous verrons 8)
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 21, 2018, 09:54:34 PM
The below video is the method I use when cutting a stack of transformer laminations.
A thin cut off blade is a must!, wear a quality filtered mask as silica is present in transformer laminations and I also protect my ears.
You must use strong clamp pressure with a steel plate on each sides to distribute the pressure. Without it, you are sure to ruin the laminations as the metal particles will fill between laminations and inflate the core.

Luc

français
La vidéo ci-dessous est la méthode que j'utilise pour couper une pile de tôles de transformateur.
Une lame de coupe fine est un must !, portez un masque filtré de qualité car la silice est présente dans les tôles des transformateurs. La protection des yeux est également un must et je protège également mes oreilles.
Vous devez utiliser une forte pression de serrage avec une plaque d'acier de chaque côté pour répartir la pression. Sans cela, vous êtes sûr de ruiner les tôles pendant que les particules métalliques se remplissent entre les tôles et gonflent le noyau.

Video: https://youtu.be/F3q8QyUwawI (https://youtu.be/F3q8QyUwawI)
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 21, 2018, 10:11:10 PM

Finished center core
Noyau central fini

Video:
https://youtu.be/8NMg59Lx0xo
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 21, 2018, 10:55:04 PM
The below link is a LibreOffice spreadsheet of each coils resistance (A), Inductance (B) without center core, then Inductance (C) with center core in fixed horizontal position as below picture.

http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=98828892163314457292 (http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=98828892163314457292)

Luc

français
Veuillez trouver le lien pour document LibreOffice des données de chaque résistance de bobines (A), Inductance (B) sans noyau central, puis Inductance (C) avec le noyau central en position horizontale fixe comme photo ci-dessous.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 22, 2018, 12:32:11 AM
The below link is a LibreOffice spreadsheet of each coils resistance (A), Inductance (B) without center core, then Inductance (C) with center core in fixed horizontal position as below picture.

http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=98828892163314457292 (http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=98828892163314457292)

Luc

français
Veuillez trouver le lien pour document LibreOffice des données de chaque résistance de bobines (A), Inductance (B) sans noyau central, puis Inductance (C) avec le noyau central en position horizontale fixe comme photo ci-dessous.
Hi Luc, thanks for posting the numbers. I have plotted them for you, please see the attached plot. This is kind of what is expected, about same inductance for each coil without rotor and enhanced inductance with 2-fold symmetry when the rotor is present. I will post some theoretical plots later for Pierre's 36 slot stator. The only thing I noticed is the dip around slot 15 and 21 for the measurement with rotor!

Regarding your individual coils, max/min/mean = 618/504/560.5uH and standard deviation is 33.6uH or about 6%, pretty good for handcrafted artwork!

Btw. I am assuming that none of the coils were connected together when you did these measurements, correct? All should be open circuit except for the one that you are measuring.


PmgR
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 22, 2018, 02:11:49 AM
Hi Luc, thanks for posting the numbers. I have plotted them for you, please see the attached plot. This is kind of what is expected, about same inductance for each coil without rotor and enhanced inductance with 2-fold symmetry when the rotor is prescomplot ent. I will post some theoretical plots later for Pierre's 36 slot stator. The only thing I noticed is the dip around slot 15 and 21 for the measurement with rotor!

Regarding your individual coils, max/min/mean = 618/504/560.5uH and standard deviation is 33.6uH or about 6%, pretty good for handcrafted artwork!

Btw. I am assuming that none of the coils were connected together when you did these measurements, correct? All should be open circuit except for the one that you are measuring.

PmgR

français
Salut Luc, merci de poster les chiffres. Je les ai tracés pour vous, s'il vous plaît voir ci-dessous. C'est en quelque sorte ce à quoi je m'attendais, à peu près la même inductance pour chaque bobine sans rotor et une inductance améliorée avec une symétrie double lorsque le noyau du rotor est présent. Je posterai quelques autre tracés théoriques plus tard pour le stator de 36 slots de Pierre. La seule chose que j'ai remarqué est le creux autour des slot 15 et 21 pour la mesure avec le rotor!
En ce qui concerne vos bobines individuelles, max / min / mean = 618/504 / 560.5uH et l'écart type est de 33.6uH ou environ 6%, assez bon pour les illustrations faites à la main!
Je suppose qu'aucune bobine n'a été connectée lorsque vous avez fait ces mesures, n'est-ce pas? Tout devrait être en circuit ouvert à l'exception de celui que vous mesurez.

Thanks for the Plot PmgR

Yes, all the coils were open (not connected) when taking the measurements.

Regards

Luc

français
Merci pour le tracés  PmgR
Oui, toutes les bobines étaient ouvertes (non connectées) lors de la prise des mesures.
Cordialement
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Acca on March 22, 2018, 11:06:02 AM
"Just us"...

https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3599.25 (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3599.25)


[/font]
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 22, 2018, 11:36:43 AM
My view is that the fifth video is misleading.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh4cC9hIXbg
Here Pierre shows (ONE) current path through six coils times 6=36, with 6 active switches.

My opinion is that there are fewer coils used (ON) when running.  Each pole 1+1 coils, Or multi coils overlap.

 Looking at the blue LEDs when ONLY SIX of them steadily lights in a film frame. A situation between switch events.  Not at a frame with  2 + 3 + 3 blue LEDs, for example!
Now you can count that MORE THAN SIX (6 ---> 12) RED LEDs on the Relay boards ALWAYS are lit?
Some shining LEDs are hidden behind the cabling in some frames and can't be seen!

Regards / Arne

Ps: You can see that it seems to be one RED LED emty relay RED LED   at 1, 2 -- 4, 5 --7, 8 -- 9,10
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: MichelM on March 22, 2018, 01:43:56 PM
Selon Pierre (réponse à ma question dans les commentaires de sa dernière vidéo, sur Youtube),
il y a 6 X 6 bobines sous tension.

Je vous propose de regarder cette animation que j'ai faite, selon ces indications : https://youtu.be/8moN-nDHvzU (https://youtu.be/8moN-nDHvzU)

Il faudrait que Pierre regarde cette vidéo et nous dise si cela se passe ainsi.

English
According to Pierre (answer to my question in the comments of his last video, on Youtube),
there are 6 X 6 coils energized.
I suggest you watch this animation that I made, according to these indications: https://youtu.be/8moN-nDHvzU (https://youtu.be/8moN-nDHvzU)
Pierre should watch this video and tell us if that's the way it is.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 22, 2018, 01:58:50 PM
@Gotoluc

QUOTE
"I agree, 30 is not 36 but it's what I had available and better than nothing as a starting point.
If anyone wants to send me a 36 I would be glad to test it as well. Just send me a PM"
END QUOTE

QUOTE
"Okay, we set it aside and do what exactly?"
END QUOTE

Don't finish the build untill you have the other.....

If some one wants to see a replication strongly enough they will send you what you need.

Or, maybe don't set it aside, and we see what we see.

Then lets not consider your present build as a replication either, but rather as a related
experiment.

                      best wishes
                               floor
français
Ne terminez pas la construction jusqu'à ce que vous ayez une 36 fente .....
Si quelqu'un veut voir une réplication, il vous enverra ce dont vous avez besoin.
Ou, peut-être ne pas le mettre de côté, et nous voyons ce qui se passera
Ensuite, ne considérons pas votre construction actuelle comme une réplication non plus, mais plutôt comme une expérience.

I see, I thought it was clear right from the beginning of my participation that my build cannot be considered as a replication?

So just in case anyone else thinks it's a replication let me make it clear, it's not a replication and never can be considered as a replication.
I'm building with what I have on hand and what partzman has shipped me.
This build will only be to observe the effects of coil on time overlap and a rotating magnetic field. Like I already wrote, if it does more then that's a bonus!

Can all those who do have a 36 slot stator and are building a replication, please come forward (post) or pm me to let us know someone will be building and testing a 36 slot.

Regards

Luc

français
Je vois, je pensais qu'il était clair dès le début de ma participation que ma construction ne peut pas être considérée comme une réplique?
Donc, an cas où quelqu'un d'autre pense qu'il s'agit d'une réplique, permettez-moi de le préciser, ce n'est pas une réplique et ne peut jamais être considérée comme une réplique.
Je construis avec ce que j'ai en main et ce que Partzman m'a envoyé.
Cette construction sera seulement pour observer les effets de bobine en chevauchement (overlap) et un champ magnétique tournant. Comme je l'ai déjà écrit, s'il en fait plus alors c'est un bonus!
Est-ce que tous ceux qui ont un stator 36 fente qui sont en train de construire une réplique, s'il vous plaît, venez nous faire savoir que vous tester un 36 fente.
Cordialement
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ariovaldo on March 22, 2018, 02:32:44 PM
I see, I thought it was clear right from the beginning of my participation that my build cannot be considered as a replication?

So just in case anyone else thinks it's a replication let me make it clear, it's not a replication and never can be considered as a replication.
I'm building with what I have on hand and what partzman has shipped me.
This build will only be to observe the effects of coil on time overlap and a rotating magnetic field. Like I already wrote, if it does more then that's a bonus!

Can all those who do have a 36 slot stator and are building a replication, please come forward (post) or pm me to let us know someone will be building and testing a 36 slot.

Regards

Luc

français
Je vois, je pensais qu'il était clair dès le début de ma participation que ma construction ne peut pas être considérée comme une réplique?
Donc, an cas où quelqu'un d'autre pense qu'il s'agit d'une réplique, permettez-moi de le préciser, ce n'est pas une réplique et ne peut jamais être considérée comme une réplique.
Je construis avec ce que j'ai en main et ce que Partzman m'a envoyé.
Cette construction sera seulement pour observer les effets de bobine en chevauchement (overlap) et un champ magnétique tournant. Comme je l'ai déjà écrit, s'il en fait plus alors c'est un bonus!
Est-ce que tous ceux qui ont un stator 36 slot qui sont en train de construire une réplique, s'il vous plaît, venez nous faire savoir que vous tester un 36 slots.
Cordialement


Good morning Luc. Your windings looks like a professional grade. Good job.


Ariovaldo
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: iflewmyown on March 22, 2018, 02:33:42 PM
Luc, I have just finished cleaning a 36 slot stator with a 3.625 bore and a 3 in. depth of bore. I will test with a mechanical commutator first.
Garry
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 22, 2018, 02:37:57 PM
Selon Pierre (réponse à ma question dans les commentaires de sa dernière vidéo, sur Youtube),
il y a 6 X 6 bobines sous tension.

Je vous propose de regarder cette animation que j'ai faite, selon ces indications : https://youtu.be/8moN-nDHvzU (https://youtu.be/8moN-nDHvzU)

Il faudrait que Pierre regarde cette vidéo et nous dise si cela se passe ainsi.

English
According to Pierre (answer to my question in the comments of his last video, on Youtube),
there are 6 X 6 coils energized.
I suggest you watch this animation that I made, according to these indications: https://youtu.be/8moN-nDHvzU
Pierre should watch this video and tell us if that's the way it is.

Merci MichelM d'avoir rendu cette animation très unique et intéressante de l'ordre de la commutation des bobines.
Tout semble être correct
J'espère que Pierre va le regarder et me le faire savoir
Merci d'avoir partagé

Luc

English
Thank you MichelM for making this very unique and interesting animation of the coil switching timing order.
It all looks to be correct
Hopefully Pierre will look at it and let me know
Thanks for sharing
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 22, 2018, 02:49:47 PM

Good morning Luc. Your windings looks like a professional grade. Good job.

Ariovaldo

français
Bonjour Luc. Vos enroulements ressemblent à une catégorie professionnelle. Bon travail.

Thanks Ariovaldo,
Glad you are still around! I was thinking about you and wondering if you're still going to be replicating this device?
Please give us an update and let us know if you have a 36 slot stator.
Kind regards

Luc

français

Merci Ariovaldo,
Content que tu sois toujours là!  je pensais à vous et je me demandais si vous alliez encore reproduire cet appareil?
S'il vous plaît nous donner une mise à jour et laissez-nous savoir si vous avez un stator de 36 fente.
Sincères amitiés
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 22, 2018, 02:57:38 PM
Luc, I have just finished cleaning a 36 slot stator with a 3.625 bore and a 3 in. depth of bore. I will test with a mechanical commutator first.
Garry

français
Luc, je viens de finir de nettoyer un stator de 36 fentes avec un alésage de 3.625 et une profondeur de 3 po. Je vais d'abord tester avec un commutateur mécanique.
Garry

That's great Garry!  glad to have you on board and testing with mechanical switching.
Please keep us updated of your progress
Kind regards

Luc

français
C'est génial Garry! heureux de vous avoir à bord et de tester avec la commutation mécanique.
Merci de nous tenir au courant de vos progrès
Sincères amitiés
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: tinman on March 22, 2018, 03:06:01 PM
I see, I thought it was clear right from the beginning of my participation that my build cannot be considered as a replication?

So just in case anyone else thinks it's a replication let me make it clear, it's not a replication and never can be considered as a replication.
I'm building with what I have on hand and what partzman has shipped me.
This build will only be to observe the effects of coil on time overlap and a rotating magnetic field. Like I already wrote, if it does more then that's a bonus!

Can all those who do have a 36 slot stator and are building a replication, please come forward (post) or pm me to let us know someone will be building and testing a 36 slot.

Regards

Luc

français
Je vois, je pensais qu'il était clair dès le début de ma participation que ma construction ne peut pas être considérée comme une réplique?
Donc, an cas où quelqu'un d'autre pense qu'il s'agit d'une réplique, permettez-moi de le préciser, ce n'est pas une réplique et ne peut jamais être considérée comme une réplique.
Je construis avec ce que j'ai en main et ce que Partzman m'a envoyé.
Cette construction sera seulement pour observer les effets de bobine en chevauchement (overlap) et un champ magnétique tournant. Comme je l'ai déjà écrit, s'il en fait plus alors c'est un bonus!
Est-ce que tous ceux qui ont un stator 36 slot qui sont en train de construire une réplique, s'il vous plaît, venez nous faire savoir que vous tester un 36 slots.
Cordialement

Luc

You could use the wrong color wire,and some here would think it was not a replication.

You know how it go's
If it's close to what the inventor produced,and it achieves the same results as the inventor shows--it was a great replication
If you build an exact replication,and it dose not work how the inventor claim's-->you did something wrong  ::)


Brad
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 22, 2018, 03:35:02 PM
Luc

You could use the wrong color wire,and some here would think it was not a replication.

You know how it go's
If it's close to what the inventor produced,and it achieves the same results as the inventor shows--it was a great replication
If you build an exact replication,and it dose not work how the inventor claim's-->you did something wrong  ::)

Brad

français
Vous pourriez utiliser le mauvais couleur de fil, et certains ici penseraient que ce n'était pas une réplication.
Vous savez comment ça se passe, si c'est proche de ce que l'inventeur a produit, et qu'elle donne les mêmes résultats que l'inventeur, c'était une excellente réplication
Si vous construisez une réplique exacte, et que cela ne fonctionne pas, comme l'inventeur prétend -> vous avez fait quelque chose de mal ::)

Ya, ain't that the truth lol ;D
I've been here long enough to see it happen exactly as you wrote it.

français
Oui, n'est-ce pas la vérité ;D
Je suis ici depuis assez longtemps pour le voir ça se produire exactement comme vous l'avez écrit.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ariovaldo on March 22, 2018, 03:41:44 PM
Thanks Ariovaldo,
Glad you are still around! I was thinking about you and wondering if you're still going to be replicating this device?
Please give us an update and let us know if you have a 36 slot stator.
Kind regards

Luc

français

Merci Ariovaldo,
Content que tu sois toujours là!  je pensais à vous et je me demandais si vous alliez encore reproduire cet appareil?
S'il vous plaît nous donner une mise à jour et laissez-nous savoir si vous avez un stator de 36 fente.
Sincères amitiés


Yes Luc, I still around but very busy starting two 1500 hp dc generator for a big dragline. ( old style, with no VFD's)
Anyway, I'm waiting parts for the main project test. Meantime, I'm testing the effects to pulse 25 dc volts in another half way windings in another stator that I had and obviously not taking in consideration the rotating field since I'm using 2 channel signal generator (angle phase changing). In this case, pulsing just one pole, has the same effect than to pulse 2 poles at 180 degrees angle. As I said, I'm just testing.


Best Regards!


Ariovaldo

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 22, 2018, 04:07:45 PM

Yes Luc, I still around but very busy starting two 1500 hp dc generator for a big dragline. ( old style, with no VFD's)
Anyway, I'm waiting parts for the main project test. Meantime, I'm testing the effects to pulse 25 dc volts in another half way windings in another stator that I had and obviously not taking in consideration the rotating field since I'm using 2 channel signal generator (angle phase changing). In this case, pulsing just one pole, has the same effect than to pulse 2 poles at 180 degrees angle. As I said, I'm just testing.

Best Regards!
Ariovaldo
français
Oui Luc, je suis toujours là mais très occupé à démarrer deux générateurs de 1500 CV pour une grosse dragline. (ancien style, sans VFD)
De toute façon, j'attends des pièces pour le test principal du projet. Pendant ce temps, je teste les effets pour impulser 25 vdc dans d'autres bobinages à mi-chemin dans un autre stator que j'avais et évidemment ne pas prendre en compte le champ tournant puisque j'utilise un générateur de signal à 2 canaux. Dans ce cas, la pulsation d'un seul pôle a le même effet que d'impulser 2 pôles à 180 degrés. Comme je dit, je ne fais que tester.

Glad you're still testing!
Is the stator we see in the pictur a 36 slot?
Please keep us updated as you do your tests
Looking forward to your results good or bad
Thanks for sharing

Luc

français
Je suis content que vous testiez encore!
Est-ce que le stator que nous voyons dans la photo est un 36 fente?
S'il vous plaît gardez-nous à jour pendant que vous faites vos tests
Dans l'attente de vos résultats, bons ou mauvais
Merci d'avoir partagé
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: partzman on March 22, 2018, 04:53:38 PM
Luc,

IMO, the only difference between using a 30 pole or 36 pole stator would be in the timing of the pulses required to generate a 50Hz or 60 Hz output frequency.  The operation of field interactions should be the same in either case so, carry on! :)

Regards,
Pm
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 22, 2018, 04:54:51 PM
English
Thank you MichelM for making this very unique and interesting animation of the coil switching timing order.
It all looks to be correct
Hopefully Pierre will look at it and let me know
Thanks for sharing
Hi MichelM, yes your animation appears to be correct. To clarify a bit more, I note the following:

1. In your animation, 6 coils for each pole are driven in series (e.g. N-pole), the next 6 coils are also driven in series, but in opposite direction (so S-pole), etc. So all coils carry current at anyone point in time (just the direction of current changes from pole to pole). Based on the beginning of your animation, it is clear that only 6 relays are needed for this (3 to positive power and 3 to ground).  So this explains 3 blue LEDs on at a time and would require 6 relays.

2. Pierre has 6 blue LEDs on at a time and this is because he doesn't want the field to go off when switching from coil to coil. So that makes 6 blue LEDs on at a time and 12 relays at a time.

3. This also explains why his red relay LEDs are on with one red LED off in between: Let's say transistor 1 controls relays 1 and 2, and transistor 2 controls relays 3 and 4. So if his blue LEDs 1 and 2 are on, then relay 1 would be on (relay 2 off) and relay 3 would be on (relay 4 off) for connection to +VDD AND relay 14 would be on (relay 13 off) and relay 16 (relay 15 off) would be on (for connection to GND).

PmgR

Fr. Salut MichelM, oui votre animation semble être correcte. Pour clarifier un peu plus, je note ce qui suit:
1. Dans votre animation, 6 bobines pour chaque pôle sont entraînées en série (par ex. Pôle N), les 6 bobines suivantes sont également pilotées en série, mais en sens inverse (donc pôle S), etc. à tout moment (juste la direction du courant passe d'un pôle à l'autre). Basé sur le début de votre animation, il est clair que seulement 6 relais sont nécessaires pour cela (3 à la puissance positive et 3 à la terre). Donc, cela explique 3 LED bleues à la fois et nécessiterait 6 relais.
2. Pierre a 6 LED bleues allumées à la fois et c'est parce qu'il ne veut pas que le champ s'éteigne quand on passe de bobine en bobine. Cela fait donc 6 LED bleues à la fois et 12 relais à la fois.
3. Cela explique aussi pourquoi ses LED rouges de relais sont allumées avec une LED rouge entre: Supposons que le transistor 1 contrôle les relais 1 et 2, et le transistor 2 contrôle les relais 3 et 4. Donc, si ses LED bleues 1 et 2 sont allumées, le relais 1 serait activé (relais 2 éteint) et le relais 3 serait activé (relais 4 éteint) pour la connexion à + VDD ET le relais 14 serait activé (relais 13 éteint) et le relais 16 (relais 15 éteint) serait activé ( pour la connexion à GND).
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 22, 2018, 06:28:31 PM
Luc,

IMO, the only difference between using a 30 pole or 36 pole stator would be in the timing of the pulses required to generate a 50Hz or 60 Hz output frequency.  The operation of field interactions should be the same in either case so, carry on! :)

Regards,
Pm

français
Luc,
À mon avis, la seule différence entre l'utilisation d'un stator à 30 ou 36 pôles serait la synchronisation des impulsions nécessaires pour générer une fréquence de sortie de 50 Hz ou 60 Hz. Le fonctionnement des interactions sur le terrain devrait être le même dans les deux cas, continuez! ;)
Cordialement,

I appreciate your experienced opinion partzman
The package you sent me has just arrived, thank you
I'll definitely carry on
Regards

Luc

français
J'apprécie votre opinion expérimentée partzman
Le colis que vous m'avez envoyé vient d'arriver, merci
Je vais certainement continuer
Cordialement
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 22, 2018, 06:49:46 PM
I have made a theoretical plot for the inductance of the coils for the 36 slot stator. What Luc has measured is very similar to what simulations show, see attached plots for comparison.

The max inductance with the rotor present is about 4x the inductance of a coil without a rotor present. So going around the stator, the coils will see a periodic change in their inductance with a 2-fold symmetry (two periods per full 360deg revolution), while the N-S poles have a 3 fold symmetry (three periods per full 360deg revolution).

PmgR

Fr. J'ai fait un tracé théorique de l'inductance des bobines pour le stator à 36 fentes. Ce que Luc a mesuré est très similaire à ce que montrent les simulations, voir les graphiques ci-joints pour les comparer.
L'inductance maximale avec le rotor présent est d'environ 4x l'inductance d'une bobine sans rotor présent. Donc, en faisant le tour du stator, les bobines subiront une variation périodique de leur inductance avec une symétrie double (deux périodes par révolution complète de 360deg), alors que les pôles N-S auront une symétrie triple (trois périodes par rotation complète de 360deg).
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: partzman on March 22, 2018, 07:11:51 PM
I have made a theoretical plot for the inductance of the coils for the 36 slot stator. What Luc has measured is very similar to what simulations show, see attached plots for comparison.


The max inductance with the rotor present is about 4x the inductance of a coil without a rotor present. So going around the stator, the coils will see a periodic change in their inductance with a 2-fold symmetry (two periods per full 360deg revolution), while the N-S poles have a 3 fold symmetry (three periods per full 360deg revolution).


PmgR

OK, for those who are looking for a possible source of the excess energy in Pierre's device here it is, the parametric inductance change in the coils near to the fixed rotor.  There will be complex field interactions when this and other things are considered such as current/flux shuttling between overlapping coils, leakage inductance between windings, plus any field collapse activity along the stator, etc.

Luc- Glad to hear you received the parts! ;)

français
OK, pour ceux qui sont à la recherche d'une source possible de l'excès d'énergie dans le dispositif de Pierre, c'est le changement d'inductance paramétrique dans les bobines près du rotor fixe. Il y aura des interactions complexes sur le champ lorsque ceci et d'autres facteurs sont pris en compte, comme la circulation de courant / flux entre les bobine chevauchantes, l'inductance de fuite entre les enroulements,  plus toute activité d'effondrement du champ le long du stator, etc.
Luc - Content d'entendre que vous avez reçu les pièces! ;)
Cordialement,

Regards,
Pm
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Jeg on March 22, 2018, 08:12:56 PM
The operation of field interactions should be the same in either case so, carry on! :)

The inventor himself have said that he would prefer a stator with more coils so to produce more steps for the wave build up. So the number of coils looks like it contributes only to the output power and not to the manifestation of the ''effect''.

When Pierre published his first video it happens that I was experimenting on beat frequency over my yoke transformer. With this in mind I asked Pierre if he uses a variable duty cycle while the field is rotating. His answer was yes but there is always the possibility of miscommunication. So I post again his answer to me for translation by Luc.

Regards

Quote by Pierre

pour le duty cycle on peut dire que oui il est variable pour de qui est des relais je me demande comment ils ont fait pour tenir  la vitesse qu'il allait une chance que je n'ai pas mit le voltage que je voulait tester pour de ce qui est de la vitesse des relais j'en ai aucune idée trop vite a mon gout le prochain prototype il y auras des mosfet a la place moin de bruit et surtout plus rapide 

   
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ariovaldo on March 22, 2018, 08:54:20 PM
Glad you're still testing!
Is the stator we see in the pictur a 36 slot?
Please keep us updated as you do your tests
Looking forward to your results good or bad
Thanks for sharing

Luc

français
Je suis content que vous testiez encore!
Est-ce que le stator que nous voyons dans la photo est un 36 fente?
S'il vous plaît gardez-nous à jour pendant que vous faites vos tests
Dans l'attente de vos résultats, bons ou mauvais
Merci d'avoir partagé


Yes, 36 slots.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 22, 2018, 09:39:05 PM
The inventor himself have said that he would prefer a stator with more coils so to produce more steps for the wave build up. So the number of coils looks like it contributes only to the output power and not to the manifestation of the ''effect''.

When Pierre published his first video it happens that I was experimenting on beat frequency over my yoke transformer. With this in mind I asked Pierre if he uses a variable duty cycle while the field is rotating. His answer was yes but there is always the possibility of miscommunication. So I post again his answer to me for translation by Luc.

Regards

français
L'inventeur lui-même a dit qu'il préfèrerait un stator avec plus de bobines afin de produire plus de pas pour l'accumulation de la vague. Le nombre de bobines semble donc contribuer uniquement à la puissance de sortie et non à la manifestation de "'effet".
Quand Pierre a publié sa première vidéo il arrive que j'expérimentais sur la fréquence de battement sur mon transformateur. Dans cet esprit, j'ai demandé à Pierre s'il utilisait un cycle de service variable pendant que le champ tournait. Sa réponse était oui mais il y a toujours une possibilité de mauvaise communication. Donc, je poste à nouveau sa réponse à moi pour la traduction par Luc.

Quote by Pierre

pour le duty cycle on peut dire que oui il est variable pour de qui est des relais je me demande comment ils ont fait pour tenir  la vitesse qu'il allait une chance que je n'ai pas mit le voltage que je voulait tester pour de ce qui est de la vitesse des relais j'en ai aucune idée trop vite a mon gout le prochain prototype il y auras des mosfet a la place moin de bruit et surtout plus rapide 

Hi Jeg,

The below is Pierre's  translation. Probably much different with google translate, which I notice it's not very good from French to English but works very well from English to French.
français
Salut Jeg, ci-dessous est la traduction de Pierre. Probablement très différent avec traduction Google qui n'est pas une très bonne traduction du français à l'anglais mais fonctionne très bien de l'anglais aux français.

Translation of Pierre's youtube massage

for the duty cycle I can say yes, it 's variable.   (I personally think Pierre is saying the duty cycle can be varied)
Now, on the relays, I wonder how they can hold the speed they do.
Good thing I didn't use the voltage I had in mind to test with.
For the speed of the relays, I have no idea? already too fast to my liking.
The next prototype I'll use mosfet's instead of relays which have no noise and mostly much faster.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ariovaldo on March 22, 2018, 11:51:27 PM
Does someone has the spec for the female connector to the L298N?


Thanks


Ariovaldo
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: tinman on March 23, 2018, 12:04:57 AM
OK, for those who are looking for a possible source of the excess energy in Pierre's device here it is, the parametric inductance change in the coils near to the fixed rotor.  There will be complex field interactions when this and other things are considered such as current/flux shuttling between overlapping coils, leakage inductance between windings, plus any field collapse activity along the stator, etc.

Luc- Glad to hear you received the parts! ;)

Regards,
Pm

The one thing i am yet to work out is--how is a 60Hz cycle achieved with mechanical relay's ?.


Brad
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ariovaldo on March 23, 2018, 12:09:14 AM
The one thing i am yet to work out is--how is a 60Hz cycle achieved with mechanical relay's ?.


Brad
Brad, the maximum that I got pulsing a relay with a signal generator and mosfet was 43 hertz. I don't know if is the type of relay that I'm using or not.


Ariovaldo
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Magluvin on March 23, 2018, 01:25:33 AM
Brad, the maximum that I got pulsing a relay with a signal generator and mosfet was 43 hertz. I don't know if is the type of relay that I'm using or not.


Ariovaldo

Relays are not really meant for these things. But they all have operational upper frequency limits. Similar to reed switches, which do give specs on such, I would say that smaller relays can do higher freq switching than larger ones, mostly due to mass of the armature and resonant freq of the armatures such that i had encountered with reed switches in my pulse motor days.

Mags
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Magluvin on March 23, 2018, 02:47:25 AM
Here is the pdf on the relays on the boards Stefan found on Amazon

10ms max operation time
5ms max release time

Mags
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Magluvin on March 23, 2018, 02:56:05 AM
Here is the pdf on the relays on the boards Stefan found on Amazon

10ms max operation time
5ms max release time

Mags

It does say that max on/off switching

Mechanical 300 operation/min
Electrical    30 operation/min

Seems conservative for such a relay, not sure if that defines max freq of operation in comparison to the previous specs above

Mags
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: MichelM on March 23, 2018, 09:17:21 AM
Avez-vous remarqué ce commentaire de Gustav Eierbach sous la dernière vidéo de Pierre https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh4cC9hIXbg&t (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh4cC9hIXbg&t) :

Hello Pierre, please contact me by email: fassi@mail.deIt is fascinating, what you are working.I am in very good contact with the world main developer (Prof. Dr. Turtur) in Zeropoint Energy Machines.We would be very happy, if we could speak with you.Best regards Gustav Eierbach (Fassi)

Sur sa page facebook, il parle de Pierre : https://www.facebook.com/zeropoint.energie (https://www.facebook.com/zeropoint.energie)
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: cheors on March 23, 2018, 09:33:37 AM
Réponse  de Pierre également :

Pour éviter que le champ magnétique ne se coupe il faut a un certain moment avoir deux relais activés en même temps donc 5 bobines sur 6 fonctionnent réellement ex: relais 1 on ,relais 2 on ,relais 1 off ,relais 3 on ,relais 2 off etc. Cette séquence évite de couper le champ magnétique tout en changent la polarité des bobines: c'est une séquence assez complexe au niveau des transistors . Comme ma sortie de l'arduino est positive et que les relais s'activent avec du négatif alors il a été nécessaire de mettre des transistors pour pouvoir activer les relais .

English
To prevent the magnetic field from being cut, it is necessary at a certain moment to have two relays activated at the same time so 5 coils out of 6 actually work eg: relay 1 on, relay 2 on, relay 1 off, relay 3 on, relay 2 off etc. This sequence avoids to cut the magnetic field while changing the polarity of the coils: it is a rather complex sequence at the level of the transistors. As my output from the arduino is positive and the relays activate with the negative then it was necessary to put transistors in order to activate the relays.

Question:
Pouvez-vous confirmer que chaque transistor commande la mise sous tension de 5 bobines en série,et 5 autres bobines en série diamétralement opposées avec un champ magnétique opposé ?

English
Can you confirm that each transistor controls the energization of 5 coils in series, and 5 other coils in series diametrically opposed with an opposite magnetic field?

Oui mais pour le 3ieme relai la polarité se trouve éventuellement  inversée. Je ferai une vidéo pour expliquer la séquence. Pour le moment vous pouvez suivre les flèches que je fais dans la dernière vidéo

English
Yes but for the 3rd relay the polarity is possibly reversed. I will make a video to explain the sequence. For the moment you can follow the arrows that I make in the last video
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: r2fpl on March 23, 2018, 10:17:01 AM
Very interesting.

https://youtu.be/2NjCuMtiNrI?t=101

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 23, 2018, 10:50:57 AM
Relays??  (me, TinselKoala, tinman, more. .)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8moN-nDHvzU&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: tinman on March 23, 2018, 12:29:30 PM
Oh come on if one man takes a day to a job how many  men would i need to do it in an hour ?

by sharing the load and organizing the timing !

I dont think you understand AG

36 - coils.... 36 slot stator, slot sharing is necessary to accommodate number of coils.
36 - transistors for controlling relays, 2 relays per transistor....
72 - relays....  2 per coil...

In order to complete one AC cycle,each paired relays have to switch on and off once.
We have 60 AC cycles per second(60Hz),and so each relay pair would have to switch on and off 60 times per second-->that is once every 16.6 milliseconds --not going to happen.

His relay noise should sound like the below---dose it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVZ2P0KsLic

Watch this video of his in full screen HD.
Watch the iron filings very closely
Do they look like there jumping around at a 60Hz frequency?--no way.

How many wires should be going from the stator to the relay bank?-->36 live + 1 common at least.
Dose it look like there is 37 wires in the lume from the stator to the relay bank?--see pic below.

Also,it is a wonderful feat to achieve exact mains line frequency and voltage using mechanical relays.

Brad
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: cheors on March 23, 2018, 01:04:07 PM
36  wires from the stator : 4 x 8 pins green connectors + 1 x  8 pins connector with only 4 wires attached
No need for a common wire  with that loop.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 23, 2018, 04:16:19 PM
Possible ON time to relay X? (No!)

Until someone comes up with a better relay principle (timing), that makes the relays  able to work, I'm hesitant that Pierres Contraption works giving OU as shown in the movies!
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: tinman on March 25, 2018, 03:15:56 PM
it's only to rotate the magnetic field you will not get much voltage with that there is something else that I keep secret it's like an engine that has no piston it does not start it's the same thing for the generator dz the important thing is not what we see but rather what we do not see I have seen too many people who want to take the merit in my place so my contribution will stop here now it will make you discover the rest by yourself and I can tell you that it is not won it took me nearly 2 years to find the solution rotation is only one aspect of the dz is really more complicated than that at least people will be able to learn to rotate a magnetic field but it will stop they will not get the result I had, I still have problems to settle but I think everything solve problems with the second prototype that is in manufacture I have for several months I need all over again from the beginning new circuit new coil more powerful and a brand new programming that looks pretty complicated to sequence then I wish you the best of luck for the sequel and beware of those who tries to keep the information to have it all want the information for them and does not reveal anything else I wonder why humm, when I have applied for a patent I can show you the rest of the generator dz version 2 but not before thank you.

 :D

 ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Magluvin on March 27, 2018, 01:08:07 AM
A repost from Pierre at the moderated topic 

Here is the latest from Pierre


"The only concern I have are the mosfet's you use, I'm not sure if they will withstand the the input amperage? just a single coil takes a lot of amperage, check before how much one coil draws compared to the 2 amps the mosfet's can handle.

Well I have to argue that very strongly. Todays motor controls of just about every kind is done via transistors(mosfets mostly) from the tiniest toy drones to the controllers to drive electric bicycle hub motors to electric cars. Im working with some mosfets that are 1.4mohm on resistance and can handle gobs of current compared to the relays. Can run .2ohm loads at 4v, 20 amps continuous and the transistor barely gets warm, no heat sink. But i do use a sink to be rid of as much heat developed for max performance. 3034 mosfet.

Ive seen some very small surface mount mosfets that are just amazing(to me) as to what they can do, and no heat sink needed. If any of you do the vaping instead of smoking cigs, if you have a chance to take apart your hand held vape device, you will see what Im seeing. these are used as a buck/boost converter to drive the vape coils and have digital power adjustments.

Not to come down on Pierre but I think his thinking on this needs to be corrected.

Mags
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Slider2732 on March 27, 2018, 01:47:06 AM
Mags, ikr, as they say. It really is a bit of a different situation if you are used to swapping FET's on RC stuff.
I can vouch for the A49T SMD MOSFETs, blew a factory fitted FET on an Eachine EO10 micro quad and the ridiculously powerful but cheap replacement is still running a year later. Altered another to run with 8mm motors with no issues and those things can draw 2A.
5.8A capable, likely with a heatsink plate of copper stuck on top with superglue or something. Or superglue a penny on top of it   ::)
Probably older design regular sized FET's are what he is referring to, but i've ordered the N-channel A49T and P channel A19T's.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/20PCS-AO3404-A49T-5-8A-30V-SOT23-N-Channel-MOSFET-SMD-transistor-NEW-/232077638730
$1.24 free shipping for 20 !!!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20PCS-AO3401-A19T-4-2A-30V-SOT23-P-Channel-MOSFET-SMD-Transistor-BH-/183001699892
$0.77, $0.16 shipping, again for 20 of them
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: T-1000 on March 27, 2018, 11:06:54 PM
 Hello all,

I just spotted this thread and I was following Pierre's videos. Just I missed long discussion, wow!

For Pierre - great job! I always dreamed about creating rotating magnetic field without moving magnet or coil and you just did it!.. :)
For Luc and other builders - great job on taking interest and trying to assemble setup. Now need to finish your rigs for actual testing if you still have spare time.

Here are my thoughts for breaking down whole thing into building blocks:

1) To make induction we have to alternate magnetic field. Without moving magnets or coils we only can achieve that when adding or removing power from additional electromagnets. Then have neutral point and polarity reversed when going around circle with switch on/off groups. This is also reflected in given numbers from Pierre. Which are 36 electromagnets with 6 poles. Which breaks down to 6 electromagnets per pole (5 active and 1 switched off to give space between poles as per Pierre's explanation video).
2) By activating 1st then 2,3,4,5th electromagnets we increase and decrease magnetic field strength so we can alternate resulting magnetic field in the core inside of stator. Which makes induction as the magnetic field strength changes.
3) When shifting starting coil number we simulating moving magnet poles
4) As the electromagnet is not treated like transformer primary we spend all current on plain wire resistance when each coil is activated. Which means when we put load on or off on the center core coil it does not lower electromagnet inductance any more as we relay on coil wire resistance already.
5) By collecting BEMF after each coil is switching off or getting induction from neighbour coil we recover partial energy back to the bank of super-capacitors.
6) The generated power is looped back to the input and the excessive power is taken to the load.

Now to my questions and things required to test so we can understand exactly what is going on:
1) On the BEMF/inductance recovery.  Luc and others - can you try to power on coils in the sequence I mentioned and see what amount of power is getting to recover? This defines overall COP of the system before we start talking about induction part. This is very important so we will know how much power in percentage is required to make system self running.
2) How much power you can induce after smoothing over shotky HV diode bridge and high voltage cap?
3) If COP of the system before looping back is less than 70% - do we miss any crucial steps when making magnetic field increase/decrease in 6 steps resolution? Like too long duty cycle on coils or something like that...
4) Would Pierre elaborate on my post and give some comments on his view of the whole thing?

So, any volunteers for making tests? :)

 Cheers!
T-1000
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: T-1000 on March 28, 2018, 12:03:22 AM
When we are talking about rotating .magnetic field it is huge difference when creating it in stepping motor style with DC and the rotor is actually is not moving. It cannot be compared to polyphase motor as the effects on driving coils are different from the sine wave AC.
With what was done here would require 6 phase AC which is not doable so easy.

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Magluvin on March 28, 2018, 03:08:57 AM
Mags, ikr, as they say. It really is a bit of a different situation if you are used to swapping FET's on RC stuff.
I can vouch for the A49T SMD MOSFETs, blew a factory fitted FET on an Eachine EO10 micro quad and the ridiculously powerful but cheap replacement is still running a year later. Altered another to run with 8mm motors with no issues and those things can draw 2A.
5.8A capable, likely with a heatsink plate of copper stuck on top with superglue or something. Or superglue a penny on top of it   ::)
Probably older design regular sized FET's are what he is referring to, but i've ordered the N-channel A49T and P channel A19T's.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/20PCS-AO3404-A49T-5-8A-30V-SOT23-N-Channel-MOSFET-SMD-transistor-NEW-/232077638730 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/20PCS-AO3404-A49T-5-8A-30V-SOT23-N-Channel-MOSFET-SMD-transistor-NEW-/232077638730)
$1.24 free shipping for 20 !!!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20PCS-AO3401-A19T-4-2A-30V-SOT23-P-Channel-MOSFET-SMD-Transistor-BH-/183001699892 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/20PCS-AO3401-A19T-4-2A-30V-SOT23-P-Channel-MOSFET-SMD-Transistor-BH-/183001699892)
$0.77, $0.16 shipping, again for 20 of them

Hey Slider.  Good to see you around here. ;)

My examples were not Hv type but that can also be done.

here is the 3034 data sheet below

Applications
DC Motor Drive
High Efficiency Synchronous Rectification in SMPS
Uninterruptible Power Supply
High Speed Power Switching
Hard Switched and High Frequency Circuits

Mags
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 28, 2018, 10:42:43 AM
Hello all,

I just spotted this thread and I was following Pierre's videos. Just I missed long discussion, wow!

So, I did read 41 pages of thread (mostly) and noticed it started going off the rails since page 30(typical as always). I would like to give a pinch for putting back to what was all about.

For Pierre - great job! I always dreamed about creating rotating magnetic field without moving magnet or coil and you just did it!.. :)
For Luc and other builders - great job on taking interest and trying to assemble setup. Now need to finish your rigs for actual testing if you still have spare time.

Here are my thoughts for breaking down whole thing into building blocks:

1) To make induction we have to alternate magnetic field. Without moving magnets or coils we only can achieve that when adding or removing power from additional electromagnets. Then have neutral point and polarity reversed when going around circle with switch on/off groups. This is also reflected in given numbers from Pierre. Which are 36 electromagnets with 6 poles. Which breaks down to 6 electromagnets per pole (5 active and 1 switched off to give space between poles as per Pierre's explanation video).
2) By activating 1st then 2,3,4,5th electromagnets we increase and decrease magnetic field strength so we can alternate resulting magnetic field in the core inside of stator. Which makes induction as the magnetic field strength changes.
3) When shifting starting coil number we simulating moving magnet poles
4) As the electromagnet is not treated like transformer primary we spend all current on plain wire resistance when each coil is activated. Which means when we put load on or off on the center core coil it does not lower electromagnet inductance any more as we relay on coil wire resistance already.
5) By collecting BEMF after each coil is switching off or getting induction from neighbour coil we recover partial energy back to the bank of super-capacitors.
6) The generated power is looped back to the input and the excessive power is taken to the load.

Now to my questions and things required to test so we can understand exactly what is going on:
1) On the BEMF/inductance recovery.  Luc and others - can you try to power on coils in the sequence I mentioned and see what amount of power is getting to recover? This defines overall COP of the system before we start talking about induction part. This is very important so we will know how much power in percentage is required to make system self running.
2) How much power you can induce after smoothing over shotky HV diode bridge and high voltage cap?
3) If COP of the system before looping back is less than 70% - do we miss any crucial steps when making magnetic field increase/decrease in 6 steps resolution? Like too long duty cycle on coils or something like that...
4) Would Pierre elaborate on my post and give some comments on his view of the whole thing?

So, any volunteers for making tests? :)

 Cheers!
T-1000

Hi T-1000,

I don't think anyone has a replication attempt running yet. There is a lot of work in this build.
In the moderated thread you will see that Pierre has stated that he did not want or expect anyone to replicate and he will be offering no further help.

Regards

L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 28, 2018, 10:48:36 AM
This thread has been amazing for me to read.  The ignorance exhibited here is really fun to watch.  If most of the people posting their excitement about a rotating magnetic field would have taken the time to do a little research about how AC induction motors work they would have known already that they work because they all have a ROTATING MAGNETIC FIELD.  That is what makes the rotor ROTATE.  I am not talking about any other motor than the AC induction motor.  DC motors operate entirely differently.  As a side note, Tesla was the first person to visualize a way of making a motor operate from AC with a rotating magnetic field.

Now I am not saying that Pierre's device doesn't work.  I am only saying that a rotating magnetic field is not something magical.  The way that Pierre is doing it MAY have something to do with the results he is getting.  Or maybe not.  I would love to see a rotor similar to his inserted into a normal AC induction motor and just supply it with the normal rotating magnetic field that would be there.  For those that have access to 3 phase power the results may be very interesting.

Someone suggested his results might be because of the phase shift caused by the rotor not being in full contact with all of the stator coils.  The normal AC rotating magnetic field should not be any different in that respect than the rotating magnetic field produced by all that elaborate circuitry of Pierre's device.

Respectfully,
Carroll

Hi Cifta,

Yes there is nothing magical about a rotating magnetic field alone.

Pierre has already stated  in the moderated thread, that there is something else that we can't see/have not seen, that is required to get the result he obtained.
This something he will not reveal to us.

Regards

L192

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 28, 2018, 03:41:14 PM
Yes there is nothing magical about a rotating magnetic field alone.

Pierre has already stated  in the moderated thread, that there is something else that we can't see/have not seen, that is required to get the result he obtained.
This something he will not reveal to us.

L192

1) Study Pierres films to see if you can find the hidden cable .

Or,

2) Organize HERE some small experiments to perform research to find the hidden thing making O.U..
   Suggestions anybody?

" Summary from Pierre:
If you only rotates a magnetic field, you will not get much voltage (power?) because something is missing!  Rotation is only one aspect of the DZ, it's really more complicated than that.
People will be able to learn how to rotate a magnetic field but it will stop there, they won't get the result I have.  I keep the secret. I just wanted to show on YouTube what I and nobody else could do.
You'll have to discover the rest on your own. I can tell you it's not easy to achieve. "

Let's search for as Pierre says the "missing pistons" !   DZ,  D??  Z??, What? French?

Regards Arne
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: e2matrix on March 28, 2018, 06:08:05 PM
Hello all,

I just spotted this thread and I was following Pierre's videos. Just I missed long discussion, wow!

So, I did read 41 pages of thread (mostly) and noticed it started going off the rails since page 30(typical as always). I would like to give a pinch for putting back to what was all about.

For Pierre - great job! I always dreamed about creating rotating magnetic field without moving magnet or coil and you just did it!.. :)
For Luc and other builders - great job on taking interest and trying to assemble setup. Now need to finish your rigs for actual testing if you still have spare time.

Here are my thoughts for breaking down whole thing into building blocks:

1) To make induction we have to alternate magnetic field. Without moving magnets or coils we only can achieve that when adding or removing power from additional electromagnets. Then have neutral point and polarity reversed when going around circle with switch on/off groups. This is also reflected in given numbers from Pierre. Which are 36 electromagnets with 6 poles. Which breaks down to 6 electromagnets per pole (5 active and 1 switched off to give space between poles as per Pierre's explanation video).
2) By activating 1st then 2,3,4,5th electromagnets we increase and decrease magnetic field strength so we can alternate resulting magnetic field in the core inside of stator. Which makes induction as the magnetic field strength changes.
3) When shifting starting coil number we simulating moving magnet poles
4) As the electromagnet is not treated like transformer primary we spend all current on plain wire resistance when each coil is activated. Which means when we put load on or off on the center core coil it does not lower electromagnet inductance any more as we relay on coil wire resistance already.
5) By collecting BEMF after each coil is switching off or getting induction from neighbour coil we recover partial energy back to the bank of super-capacitors.
6) The generated power is looped back to the input and the excessive power is taken to the load.

Now to my questions and things required to test so we can understand exactly what is going on:
1) On the BEMF/inductance recovery.  Luc and others - can you try to power on coils in the sequence I mentioned and see what amount of power is getting to recover? This defines overall COP of the system before we start talking about induction part. This is very important so we will know how much power in percentage is required to make system self running.
2) How much power you can induce after smoothing over shotky HV diode bridge and high voltage cap?
3) If COP of the system before looping back is less than 70% - do we miss any crucial steps when making magnetic field increase/decrease in 6 steps resolution? Like too long duty cycle on coils or something like that...
4) Would Pierre elaborate on my post and give some comments on his view of the whole thing?

So, any volunteers for making tests? :)

 Cheers!
T-1000


Ahhh!   I knew we were still missing one of the great minds on this thread.   Glad to see you here T-1000!   Unfortunately due to some nonsense being flung around we may need to figure out a couple things here Pierre has opted out of sharing after he saw the bad behavior.  However I think between the coil winding info and the Arduino code he shared that some of the most difficult parts have been given out here and in Gotoluc's moderated thread on this device.   I think the 'piston power' he mentions as being the missing part may be related to how power is handled between the super caps and the system. 
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ramset on March 28, 2018, 06:43:28 PM
e2Matrix
People are asking about all the Vids ?

Copies ??

I have none [never copy Vids]

IMO maybe Luc can ask Pierre if he is OK with that {reposting copies here if persons have them ??]

Perhaps he just removed them for a statement ??
If Pierre says OK...maybe  all the Vids could be put in the first post of the moderated thread.


I see Stefan has a Movie theater running here with Pierre's work ??
EDIT
No I stand corrected
 movies here from Stefan on Pierre's work are not on My front forum page any longer {could be at Stefan's OU.Com Movie page collection somewhere ?

Chet
PS
As was already noted many times
Pierre is NOT closing this Topic
He is seeking help with
"how to open source"
prior to continuing .

Intermission...

But there is always Talking during intermission....
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 28, 2018, 08:34:31 PM
Hi Stefan, i saved all of them.
I think this is one you are looking for, it is called, '100%free energy generator139v 1600watt WOW!! revolutionary DZ generator first part - YouTube'.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/gv7o05p9khdpzu9/100%25free%20energy%20generator139v%201600watt%20WOW%21%21%20revolutionary%20DZ%20generator%20first%20part%20-%20YouTube.mp4 (http://www.mediafire.com/file/gv7o05p9khdpzu9/100%25free%20energy%20generator139v%201600watt%20WOW%21%21%20revolutionary%20DZ%20generator%20first%20part%20-%20YouTube.mp4)

peace love light

Hi Skywatcher,

Can you provide the links to the other videos?

Thanks

Regards
L192
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: listener191 on March 28, 2018, 09:29:40 PM
I know some have ordered BTS7960B's to make their own half bridges.
Attached is a board that can be found on Ebay for about $6. It has two BTS7960B's, each device is a half bridge.

Control is similar to the L298N. This device can handle 43A continuous and up to 45V. It has a complementary  MOSFET output stage. The MOSFET body diodes provide the path for coil energy recovery.

The L298N was only considered for driving each coil individually as an H bridge. Now we are going down the half bridge ladder scheme, the 3.5A parallel arrangement capacity is likely to be too low. I have looked at adding a MOSFET power stage but have decided not to do that, due to a quick cost calculation of parts. It makes better financial sense to just change the whole board.

I plan to use the L298N's for initial testing to ensure I have all connections made correctly, basically a low current run. Then I will change to these BTS7960B boards. 

Regards

L192


Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on March 28, 2018, 10:34:08 PM
Regarding the H-bridges, it requires two complement digital inputs (A and Abar as only one of the outputs should be on at a time). The Arduino only gives the A digital output, the complement (Abar) needs to be generated otherwise (the Arduino doesn't have that many outputs). Pierre's transistor board probably did this. So Luc will need some more electronics to control all the H-bridges properly (with A and Abar).


PmgR
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on March 28, 2018, 10:36:39 PM
Hi Skywatcher,

Can you provide the links to the other videos?

Thanks

Regards
L192
To everyone,
Don't you think it would be wiser to first ask Pierre if he's okay with us making his videos publicly available?
If you upset him, do you think he will have trust in us and come back?
Please stop this now.

I had a guy email me a few days ago asking if I have copies of Pierre's videos, which I do have for my own personal research but I would never share them to the general public unless Pierre told me he's okay with it. Please respect his wishes not to have his videos available to the public until he says he's okay with it.
Just look at his final response (below) I got when I told this guy I can't share without Pierre's permission. It took no time to see this guys true colors :o
Regards
Luc

Fr. À tout le monde,
Ne pensez-vous pas qu'il serait plus sage de demander d'abord à Pierre s'il est d'accord avec nous pour rendre ses vidéos accessibles au public?
Si vous le contrariez, pensez-vous qu'il aura confiance en nous et qu'il reviendra?
S'il vous plaît arrêtez ça maintenant.

Un gars m'a envoyé un courriel il y a quelques jours me demandant si j'avais des copies des vidéos de Pierre. Oui j'en ai pour ma recherche personnelle mais je ne les partagerais jamais avec le grand public à moins que Pierre me dise qu'il est d'accord avec ça. S'il vous plait, respectez ses désirs de ne pas mettre ses vidéos à la disposition du public jusqu'à ce qu'il dise qu'il est d'accord avec ça.
Regarder la réponse (ci-dessous) que j'ai eue quand j'ai dit au type que je ne peux pas partager sans la permission de Pierre. Il n'a pas fallu de temps pour voir les vraies couleurs de ce gars ???
Cordialement
Luc
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: cheors on March 28, 2018, 10:42:44 PM
J'ai identifié la position des LEDS bleues

I identified the position of the blue LEDs
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 28, 2018, 11:15:52 PM
J'ai identifié la position des LEDS bleues

I identified the position of the blue LEDs

This is important: Pierres repetition frequency of all (blue LED) steps IS about 5 HZ !!
Ceci est important: la fréquence de répétition Pierres de toutes les étapes (LED bleue) est d'environ 5 Hz!

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: shylo on March 28, 2018, 11:49:19 PM
It's like binary code, the more coils you have the more back spikes you can collect.
One coil gives you 2 points of collection, Two coils give you 6 points of collection.
The more points of collection you add ,the smaller they get, but the sum of points is greater than the lesser amount.
Also the faster you switch ,the greater the collection.
I still think there is lenz but maybe not, or maybe not as prominent , not sure?
Just what I'm testing right now, These are only my thoughts and where I'm looking, maybe it'l lead somewhere.
artv
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: T-1000 on March 29, 2018, 12:52:45 AM
J'ai identifié la position des LEDS bleues

I identified the position of the blue LEDs

To ensure if that is correct - https://filebin.net/a59twe0yqzthkgy7/100_free_energy_generator139v_1600watt___DZ_generator__part_4-slowmo.mp4 (https://filebin.net/a59twe0yqzthkgy7/100_free_energy_generator139v_1600watt___DZ_generator__part_4-slowmo.mp4)
Hopefully Pierre will not have objections about few seconds clip cut.

And pictures from explanation video:
https://i.imgur.com/hpDXFv4.png (https://i.imgur.com/hpDXFv4.png)
https://i.imgur.com/CwrNJVB.png (https://i.imgur.com/CwrNJVB.png)
https://i.imgur.com/NkNCryA.png (https://i.imgur.com/NkNCryA.png)

Cheers!
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: r2fpl on March 29, 2018, 10:39:48 AM
I see not work (LED) 3-8 relays ? LED broken ?

Did anyone make a diagram LEDs blue to RED (relays)?
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 29, 2018, 11:19:40 AM
This is important: Pierres Output frequency IS about 15 HZ !!

NOT 60 Hz !!

Ceci est important: La fréquence de sortie de Pierres est d'environ 15 Hz!

PAS 60 Hz !!

http://overunity.com/17653/pierres-170w-in-1600w-out-looped-very-impressive-build-continued-moderated/msg518827/#msg518827

Quote; ""Some here think a replication is based around the physical properties of a device,when they should base it around working principles of the device.
Brad ""
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: cheors on March 29, 2018, 01:57:38 PM
Recherche de la fréquence de commutation :

Nous savons maintenant qu’il y a 24 délais dans le programme Arduino dont la durée dépend du potentiomètre. Celui-ci est mesuré sur l’entrée A0 : «int y= analogRead(0); «
Il peut prendre la valeur de 0 à 1023 mais est réduit de 0 à 10 par l’instruction «x= map(y,0,1000 ,1,10);» . (10 maximum dans la vidéo de Pierre et 100 dans ce que Luc a publié)
Donc  chaque délai ne peut prendre que des valeurs entières de : 0, 1, 2, 3,,,,
La boucle du programme fait soit 24  x 1 ms = 24 mS, 24 x 2 = 48 mS, 72 mS, …
On rajoute environ 0,65 mS pour les autres instructions («digitalWrite»)
La rotation durera :
x   Rotation   Fréquence   Relai       Fréquence de sortie
         (F)      (2 pas)            (3 poles N S = 3 F)
1   24,65 mS  soit 40,56 Hz   2 ms      121,70 Hz
2   48,65      20,55      4      61,66
3   72,65      13,76      6      41,29
4   96,65      10,34      8      31,03
5   120,65      8,28      10      24,86
6   144,65      6,94      12      20,73
7   168,65      5,92      14      17,78
8   192,65      5,19      16      15,57
9   216,65      4,61      18      13,84
10   240,65      4,15      20      12,46

x = 1mS semble trop court pour les relais même s’ils sont activés pendant 2 pas.
2mS est plus intéressant car on a 48mS pour la boucle : comme on a 3 pôles N et 3 S, c’est comme si le programme bouclait en 48,65/3 = 16,21 mS. Ce qui donne du 61Hz vu de la bobine de sortie.

Mais il est vrai que la cadence semble être plus lente vers 5 Hz soit 15,57 vu de la sortie avec x =8 .

Remarque :
- On n’a pas besoin du potentiomètre si l’objectif est une fréquence fixe unique.
Il suffit de déclarer la variable en lui donnant sa valeur directement. Par exemple «int x = 2;»
(cela devient une constante)
Pour avoir un 60Hz précis, on peut remplacer les instructions «delay» par«delayMicroseconds» et ajuster expérimentalement la constante autour de 2000 : «const int x = 2000;»
On supprime les instructions y = analogRead(0);  et   x = map(y,0,1000,1,10); ce qui rend la boucle plus rapide et plus régulière. (environ 160 uS gagnés)

- Pour un stator à 30 fentes, 30 bobines le programme ne comportera que 20 délais.
Dans l’exemple ou x vaut 2, le programme bouclera en 20 x 2 = 40mS et divisés par 3 = 75Hz.
Pour avoir du 60Hz, x vaudra plutôt: «const int x = 2400;»

- Je pense que nous n’avons pas le programme exact :
*L’instruction map de Luc est différente de celle diffusée par Pierre sur Youtube.
* On ne voit jamais toutes les LEDS éteintes contrairement à ce que l’on attend avec la version Youtube.

Dans ma simulation j’ai corrigé de la façon suivante :

void loop()
{
 y = analogRead(0); // transforme x en une valeur de 0 à 10 (millisecondes)
 x = map(y,0,1000,1,10);
  digitalWrite(2,HIGH), digitalWrite(14,HIGH), digitalWrite(26,HIGH); // turn the LED on (HIGH is the voltage level)
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(1,LOW),  digitalWrite(13,LOW),  digitalWrite(25,LOW);     // turn the LED off by making the voltage LOW
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(3,HIGH), digitalWrite(15,HIGH), digitalWrite(27,HIGH);   // turn the LED on (HIGH is the voltage level)
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(2,LOW),  digitalWrite(14,LOW),  digitalWrite(26,LOW);     // turn the LED off by making the voltage LOW
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(4,HIGH), digitalWrite(16,HIGH), digitalWrite(28,HIGH); // turn the LED on (HIGH is the voltage level)
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(3,LOW),  digitalWrite(15,LOW),  digitalWrite(27,LOW);     // turn the LED off by making the voltage LOW
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(5,HIGH), digitalWrite(17,HIGH), digitalWrite(29,HIGH);   // turn the LED on (HIGH is the voltage level)
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(4,LOW),  digitalWrite(16,LOW),  digitalWrite(28,LOW);     // turn the LED off by making the voltage LOW
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(6,HIGH), digitalWrite(18,HIGH), digitalWrite(30,HIGH); // turn the LED on (HIGH is the voltage level)
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(5,LOW),  digitalWrite(17,LOW),  digitalWrite(29,LOW);     // turn the LED off by making the voltage LOW
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(7,HIGH), digitalWrite(19,HIGH), digitalWrite(31,HIGH);   // turn the LED on (HIGH is the voltage level)
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(6,LOW),  digitalWrite(18,LOW),  digitalWrite(30,LOW);     // turn the LED off by making the voltage LOW
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(8,HIGH), digitalWrite(20,HIGH), digitalWrite(32,HIGH); // turn the LED on (HIGH is the voltage level)
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(7,LOW),  digitalWrite(19,LOW),  digitalWrite(31,LOW);     // turn the LED off by making the voltage LOW
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(9,HIGH), digitalWrite(21,HIGH), digitalWrite(33,HIGH);   // turn the LED on (HIGH is the voltage level)
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(8,LOW),  digitalWrite(20,LOW),  digitalWrite(32,LOW);     // turn the LED off by making the voltage LOW
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(10,HIGH), digitalWrite(22,HIGH), digitalWrite(34,HIGH); // turn the LED on (HIGH is the voltage level)
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(9,LOW),  digitalWrite(21,LOW),  digitalWrite(33,LOW);     // turn the LED off by making the voltage LOW
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(11,HIGH), digitalWrite(23,HIGH), digitalWrite(35,HIGH);   // turn the LED on (HIGH is the voltage level)
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(10,LOW),  digitalWrite(22,LOW),  digitalWrite(34,LOW);     // turn the LED off by making the voltage LOW
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(12,HIGH), digitalWrite(24,HIGH), digitalWrite(36,HIGH); // turn the LED on (HIGH is the voltage level)
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(11,LOW),  digitalWrite(23,LOW),  digitalWrite(35,LOW);     // turn the LED off by making the voltage LOW
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(1,HIGH),  digitalWrite(13,HIGH),  digitalWrite(25,HIGH);     // turn the LED off by making the voltage LOW
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(12,LOW), digitalWrite(24,LOW), digitalWrite(36,LOW); // turn the LED on (HIGH is the voltage level)
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
 }
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: cheors on March 29, 2018, 02:07:57 PM
English

Search of the switching frequency:

We now know that there are 24 delays in the Arduino program whose duration depends on the potentiometer. This is measured on the input A0: "int y = analogRead (0); "
It can take the value from 0 to 1023 but is reduced from 0 to 10 by the statement "x = map (y, 0,1000, 1,10);". (10 maximum in Peter's video and 100 in what Luke has published)
So each delay can only take integer values of: 0, 1, 2, 3 ,,,,
The loop of the program is either 24 x 1 ms = 24 mS, 24 x 2 = 48 mS, 72 mS, ...
We add about 0.65 mS for other instructions ("digitalWrite")
The rotation will last:
x Rotation Frequency Relay Output Frequency(F) (2 steps) (3 poles N S = 3 F)
1   24,65 mS  soit 40,56 Hz   2 ms      121,70 Hz
2   48,65      20,55      4      61,66
3   72,65      13,76      6      41,29
4   96,65      10,34      8      31,03
5   120,65      8,28     10      24,86
6   144,65      6,94     12      20,73
7   168,65      5,92     14      17,78
8   192,65      5,19     16      15,57
9   216,65      4,61     18      13,84
10   240,65      4,15    20      12,46

x = 1mS seems too short for relays even if they are activated for 2 steps.
2mS is more interesting because we have 48mS for the loop: as we have 3 poles N and 3 S, it is as if the program looped in 48.65 / 3 = 16.21 mS. Which gives the 61Hz seen from the output coil.

But it is true that the reality seems to be slower towards 5 Hz is 15.57 seen from the output with
x = 8.
Notes:
- The potentiometer is not needed if the we need a single fixed frequency.
Simply declare the variable by giving it its value directly. For example, "const int x = 2;"
(it becomes a constant)
To have a precise 60Hz, we can replace the "delay" instructions with "delayMicroseconds" and experimentally adjust the constant around 2000: "const int x = 2000;"
We can delete the statements y = analogRead (0); and x = map (y, 0,1000,1,10); which makes the loop faster and more regular. (about 160 uS won)

- For a stator with 30 slots, 30 coils the program will only have 20 delays.
In the example where x = 2, the program will loop in 20 x 2 = 40mS which gives 75Hz.
To have 60Hz, x will be worth: "const int x = 2400;"

- I think we do not have the exact program:
* The instruction map of Luc is different from the one that is broadcast by Pierre on Youtube.
* We never see all the LEDs off contrary to what is expected with the Youtube version.

In my simulation I corrected as follows:  (see previous post)
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ARTMOSART on March 29, 2018, 03:10:39 PM
pour tout qui s'intéresse à la fréquence de rotation du champ magnétique ,je suggère de revoir
la video parite 1,à 6 min ,quand pierre introduit le rotore à 2 aimants ,
on voie très bien que :
1/ la vitesse est très faible
2/ la rotation du champ n'est pas linéaire
3/ le pas n'est pas régulier (probablement les pole ne sont pas égaux ?)

cela me fait dire que les 60Hz c'est pas possible ,plutôt dans les 5hz?
qu'en pensez-vous

cordialement ,Mosha

EN/for anyone interested in the frequency of rotation of the magnetic field, I suggest to revisit video parite 1, at 6 min, when Pierre introduces the rotor with 2 magnets, we see very well that:
 1 / speed is very low
 2 / the rotation of the field is not linear
3 / the step is not regular (probably the pole is not equal?)
 that makes me say that the 60Hz is not possible, rather in 5hz? What do you think

best regards, Mosha
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 29, 2018, 03:37:50 PM
cela me fait dire que les 60Hz c'est pas possible ,plutôt dans les 5hz?
qu'en pensez-vous
EN/
(probably the pole is not equal?) that makes me say that the 60Hz is not possible, rather in 5hz? What do you think best regards, Mosha[/left]

Now Mosha, it's time to pick up your motor idea  and start testing new ideas. FR/ Maintenant, Mosha, il est temps de prendre votre idée de moteur et de commencer à tester de nouvelles idées.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOvtCt1MkhY

Arne
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ARTMOSART on March 29, 2018, 04:17:49 PM
arne,

merci pour le lien ,je découvre que mon idée  a déjà  exister et tant mieux .malheureusement je ne comprend  pas l'Allemand .

en fait je suis déjà entrain de faire cette expérience depuis quelque jours ,avec un commutateur mécanique dans un premier temps .

cependant je continue surtout à essayer de comprendre le système car il y'a beaucoup d'incohérence concernant la fréquence .est ce vraiment un champ rotative ? ne peut-il pas s'agir d'un champ vibratoire ? 

cordialement,Mosha

EN:

arne,

thank you for the link, I discover that my idea has already exist and so much. unfortunately I do not understand German.

in fact I am already doing this experiment for a few days, with a mechanical switch at first.

however, I still mostly try to understand the system because there is a lot of inconsistency about the frequency. Is it really a rotating field? can not it be a vibratory field?
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Jeg on March 29, 2018, 04:50:25 PM


Search of the switching frequency:


Hi cheors.
Thanks for sharing your calculations.

When we state the 'delay' function, actually we set the 'on' time of a pin output. So the corresponded frequency is not 1/delay, but 1\(2*delay) instead.


Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: ramset on March 29, 2018, 04:52:48 PM
cheors
Quote
- I think we do not have the exact program:
* The instruction map of Luc is different from the one that is broadcast by Pierre on Youtube.
* We never see all the LEDs off contrary to what is expected with the Youtube version.

end quote
------------------------------------------------
Sir
When you say "the instruction map from Luc"

you are referring to the "Code" which Pierre sent Luc [and he shared here??] is different than the "code" presented by Pierre in his recent Vid ?

and the Pierre presented You tube Code does not match what we should see in his demonstration?


sorry for the intrusion,
Respectfully
Chet K
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Cherryman on March 29, 2018, 05:09:29 PM

If you do not need the pot, but only a fixed switch time, i would suggest this:



/************************************************
  Pierre's Original Sketch

  Modded by CM 29 Mar 2018
  Modded by CM 25 Mar 2018
  Modded by TK 24 Mar 2018
  altered for 30-slot stator (gotoluc)

  TKTest Version using pins 2-11,12-21,22-31
************************************************/

// Timers
unsigned long timeStart = 0;
unsigned long currentTime = 0;
bool coilState = HIGH;
int  x = 0;

int coilSequence[] = { 11, 3, 2, 4, 3, 5, 4, 6, 5, 7, 6, 8, 7, 9, 8, 10, 9, 11, 10, 2 };   // set the firing order
int waitTime = 1000;   // time between switching in millis() , this can also be micros()


void setup() // initialize all needed digital pins as OUTPUT
{
  int pin = 1;
  for (pin = 1; pin <= 31; pin ++)
  {
    pinMode(pin, OUTPUT);
  }
}


void loop()
{
  for (int x = 0; x < 20 ; ) ;
  {
    currentTime = millis();   // use micros() if you want to use that
    if (currentTime - timeStart > waitTime) // set the wait time
    {
      coilState = ! coilState ; // switch state
      digitalWrite(coilSequence[x], coilState), digitalWrite((coilSequence[x] + 10), coilState), digitalWrite((coilSequence[x] + 20), coilState);   // turn on or off
      timeStart = currentTime ;// reset start time
      x++;
    }
  }
}
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on March 29, 2018, 06:00:23 PM
arne,
.est ce vraiment un champ rotative ? ne peut-il pas s'agir d'un champ vibratoire ? 
EN:
 Is it really a rotating field? can not it be a vibratory field?

Your quote: I think thats the core question. A stepping stumbling field contra a smooth floting field as a real moving magnet. I think thats the differece between my 13% output power, or some more, contra Over Unity ! As Pierre says: If you only rotates a magnetic field, you will not get much voltage (power?) Something is missing.


FR/ Votre citation: Je pense que c'est la question centrale. Un trébuchement progressif contre un champ de flottation lisse comme un aimant mobile réel. Je pense que c'est la différence entre ma puissance de sortie de 13%, ou un peu plus, à propos de l'unité ! Si Pierre dit:  Si vous ne faites que tourner un champ magnétique, vous n'obtenez pas beaucoup de tension (courant?) Quelque chose manque.

Cordialement, Regards Arne
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: cheors on March 29, 2018, 08:17:24 PM

When we state the 'delay' function, actually we set the 'on' time of a pin output. So the corresponded frequency is not 1/delay, but 1\(2*delay) instead.

The same delay after each switch on or switch off set of instructions :

"digitalWrite(2,HIGH), digitalWrite(14,HIGH), digitalWrite(26,HIGH); // turn the LEDs on
  delay(x);  // wait x milliseconds
  digitalWrite(1,LOW),  digitalWrite(13,LOW),  digitalWrite(25,LOW);  // turn the LEDs off
  delay(x);  // wait x milliseconds  "
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: cheors on March 29, 2018, 08:27:57 PM
When you say "the instruction map from Luc"

you are referring to the "Code" which Pierre sent Luc [and he shared here??] is different than the "code" presented by Pierre in his recent Vid ?

and the Pierre presented You tube Code does not match what we should see in his demonstration?


Sorry for the poor translation:

Differences: x = map(y,0,1000,1,10); ( Youtube)  and x = map(y,0,1000,1,100); (Luc)

Pierre youtube last lines :
"
digitalWrite(10,LOW),  digitalWrite(22,LOW),  digitalWrite(34,LOW);     // turn the LED off by making the voltage LOW
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(12,HIGH), digitalWrite(24,HIGH), digitalWrite(36,HIGH); // turn the LED on (HIGH is the voltage level)
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(11,LOW),  digitalWrite(23,LOW),  digitalWrite(35,LOW);     // turn the LED off by making the voltage LOW
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(12,LOW), digitalWrite(24,LOW), digitalWrite(36,LOW); // turn the LED on (HIGH is the voltage level)
  delay(x);              // wait for a second"

As you can see all ouputs are switched to low state for x mSeconds.
We should not see any blue or /and red  LEDS at the end of each program loop
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: TinselKoala on March 29, 2018, 08:29:33 PM
Cherryman's sketch compiled and uploaded fine but did not result in any flashing lights. I think I finally figured out what was wrong, and I applied a couple of corrections and now I get flashing lights as intended. I think. And I re-inserted the option for potentiometer speed control.

My corrections/insertions are highlighted below:



/************************************************
  Pierre's Original Sketch
 
  Corrected by TK 29 Mar 2018
  Modded by CM 29 Mar 2018
  Modded by CM 25 Mar 2018
  Modded by TK 24 Mar 2018
  altered for 30-slot stator (gotoluc)

  TKTest Version using pins 2-11,12-21,22-31
************************************************/

// Timers
unsigned long timeStart = 0;
unsigned long currentTime = 0;
boolean coilState = HIGH;
int  x = 0;

int coilSequence[] = { 11, 3, 2, 4, 3, 5, 4, 6, 5, 7, 6, 8, 7, 9, 8, 10, 9, 11, 10, 2 };   // set the firing order
int waitTime = 1000;   // time between switching in millis() , this can also be micros()


void setup() // initialize all needed digital pins as OUTPUT
{
  int pin = 1;
  for (pin = 1; pin <= 31; pin ++)
  {
    pinMode(pin, OUTPUT);
  }
}


void loop()
{
  for (int x = 0; x < 20  ;)
  {
    currentTime = millis();   // use micros() if you want to use that
   
if (currentTime - timeStart > waitTime) // set the wait time  // OR for pot speed control use:
//  if (currentTime - timeStart > (map(analogRead(A0),0,1023,1,100)))
   
    {
      coilState = ! coilState ; // switch state
      digitalWrite(coilSequence[x], coilState), digitalWrite((coilSequence[x] + 10), coilState), digitalWrite((coilSequence[x] + 20), coilState);   // turn on or off
      timeStart = currentTime ;// reset start time
      x++;
    }
  }
}
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: forest on March 29, 2018, 08:41:10 PM

everybody here is so clever, genius....hmm
so let me ask you something...
what are you looking for ?
what are the "properties" of ordinary generator (a "definition" of property may useful)?
what we  want to eliminate from such ordinary generator (this should be simple question now,right )?
now,how generator can be simulated FULLY keeping properties ?[/size]


so,it's quite simple but you are asking wrong questions
(no, I didn't said it is easy to make - it obvious when you ask correct question)
(no, I don't know HOW Pierre was able to do it, but... keep in mind above. Someone could not know the answer, but knowing what to look for is enough to find answer if properly motivated... but if someone don't know the correct question - he is lost no matter how pretty is replication how big tools and how much money he has)

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: TinselKoala on March 29, 2018, 08:45:18 PM
The "correct question" is for someone to get it together to perform a real test of _Pierre's_ original apparatus and self-running claim. If that claim turns out to be false or somehow misunderstood... then why are we wasting our time (and money) at all? If the claim DOES turn out to be true, then even if Pierre doesn't want to share the secret, it will be worthwhile for us to continue because we will eventually find it. As long as it actually exists, that is. But why look for a needle in a haystack unless you know the needle is actually in there somewhere?
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Jeg on March 29, 2018, 09:19:08 PM

As you can see all ouputs are switched to low state for x mSeconds.
We should not see any blue or /and red  LEDS at the end of each program loop

It is a bug that has already been mentioned. Coils 12,24,36 have to be set 'OFF' at the begin of the sketch right after the lines which set the 1,13,25 to 'ON'. So

1,13,25 ON
12,24,36 OFF
2,14,26 ON
1,13,25 OFF
...etc
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: Cherryman on March 29, 2018, 10:27:58 PM
Cherryman's sketch compiled and uploaded fine but did not result in any flashing lights. I think I finally figured out what was wrong, and I applied a couple of corrections and now I get flashing lights as intended. I think. And I re-inserted the option for potentiometer speed control.

My corrections/insertions are highlighted below:



/************************************************
  Pierre's Original Sketch
 
  Corrected by TK 29 Mar 2018
  Modded by CM 29 Mar 2018
  Modded by CM 25 Mar 2018
  Modded by TK 24 Mar 2018
  altered for 30-slot stator (gotoluc)

  TKTest Version using pins 2-11,12-21,22-31
************************************************/

// Timers
unsigned long timeStart = 0;
unsigned long currentTime = 0;
boolean coilState = HIGH;
int  x = 0;

int coilSequence[] = { 11, 3, 2, 4, 3, 5, 4, 6, 5, 7, 6, 8, 7, 9, 8, 10, 9, 11, 10, 2 };   // set the firing order
int waitTime = 1000;   // time between switching in millis() , this can also be micros()


void setup() // initialize all needed digital pins as OUTPUT
{
  int pin = 1;
  for (pin = 1; pin <= 31; pin ++)
  {
    pinMode(pin, OUTPUT);
  }
 // pinMode(A0, INPUT);  // speed potentiometer wiper pin
}


void loop()
{
  for (int x = 0; x < 20  ; )
  {
    currentTime = millis();   // use micros() if you want to use that
   
if (currentTime - timeStart > waitTime) // set the wait time  // OR for pot speed control use:
//  if (currentTime - timeStart > (map(analogRead(A0),0,1023,1,100)))
   
    {
      coilState = ! coilState ; // switch state
      digitalWrite(coilSequence[x], coilState), digitalWrite((coilSequence[x] + 10), coilState), digitalWrite((coilSequence[x] + 20), coilState);   // turn on or off
      timeStart = currentTime ;// reset start time
      x++;
    }
  }
}


Tnx TK.  I have no clue why "Bool" did not work.
I put back in your A0 Input decleration.
I like some "on the fly, manual" control too : )
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on April 01, 2018, 11:53:52 AM
I have now compared the repetitive blink and sound rate from Pierres films  with a flashing LED connected to my signal generator and got that  the repetition rate [one revolution] of his equipment is near 4.5 Hz.

Now guys explain to me how Pierre can run  a microwave oven with that frequency directly or multiplied by three magnets passing: 4.5 x 3 = 13.5 Hz,
 or six poles: 4.5 x 6 = 27 Hz  http://overunity.com/17609/170-watts-in-1600-watts-out-looped-very-impressive-build-and-video/msg517907/#msg517907
60 divided by 4.5 = 13.3333 Not an integer!

In my eyes you have all been infecteed by some " build disease" untill some resonable explaniation can be given!
Many others here on both threads have been reacting in the same way also.

This is my last try to convince.

FR/
J'ai maintenant comparé le clignotement et le son répétitif des films de Pierres avec une LED clignotante connectée à mon générateur de signal et j'ai obtenu que le taux de répétition [un tour] de son équipement est proche de 4,5 Hz.

Maintenant, les gars m'expliquent comment Pierre peut faire fonctionner un four à micro-ondes avec cette fréquence directement ou multiplié par trois aimants: 4,5 x 3 = 13,5 Hz, ou six pôles: 4,5 x 6 = 27 Hz
60 divisé par 4,5 = 13,3333 Pas un nombre entier!

A mes yeux, vous avez tous été infectés par une "maladie de la construction" jusqu'à ce qu'une explication raisonnable puisse être donnée!
Beaucoup d'autres ici sur les deux threads ont réagi de la même manière aussi.

C'est mon dernier essai pour convaincre.

Regards Arne
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: iflewmyown on April 01, 2018, 03:28:02 PM
Seead said,
"This is my last try to convince."


Thank you


Garry
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: pmgr on April 02, 2018, 03:12:22 AM
I have now compared the repetitive blink and sound rate from Pierres films  with a flashing LED connected to my signal generator and got that  the repetition rate [one revolution] of his equipment is near 4.5 Hz.

Now guys explain to me how Pierre can run  a microwave oven with that frequency directly or multiplied by three magnets passing: 4.5 x 3 = 13.5 Hz,
 or six poles: 4.5 x 6 = 27 Hz  http://overunity.com/17609/170-watts-in-1600-watts-out-looped-very-impressive-build-and-video/msg517907/#msg517907 (http://overunity.com/17609/170-watts-in-1600-watts-out-looped-very-impressive-build-and-video/msg517907/#msg517907)
60 divided by 4.5 = 13.3333 Not an integer!

FR/
J'ai maintenant comparé le clignotement et le son répétitif des films de Pierres avec une LED clignotante connectée à mon générateur de signal et j'ai obtenu que le taux de répétition [un tour] de son équipement est proche de 4,5 Hz.
I agree with you that each blue LED flashes on and off at a rate of about 4Hz (or somewhere between 3.5-4.5Hz). Based on his Arduino code, the minimum time between flashing the same LED  is 24 x (where x is the delay which has a minimum value of 1ms). Of this 24ms, his LED is only on for 3x (3ms), off for 21ms.

So it takes 24ms to switch from coil 1 to 2 to 3... to 12 band back to 1. The maximum frequency he can achieve with this minimum x=1ms delay is 1/0.024=41.666Hz, but again, this is assuming his Arduino delay is x=1ms. Based on visuals of the blue LEDs, the time it takes to switch from coil 1 to 2 to 3 to 12 and back to 1 is more like 0.24s which means x=10ms (relays on for 30ms, off for 210ms) and this would mean he is only producing 4.166Hz.

So indeed, his 60Hz readout on his display doesn't match his LED behavior. If the video is shot at 30fps (33.33ms), that means it can only grab an image every 33ms. That means there could be some subsampling going on, BUT, the sound of the video should not be restricted by subsampling (sound is usually captured at a much higher bandwidth, like 21kHz).

So indeed, this is still an open quesion. Hope Pierre would explain this.
PmgR
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: r2fpl on April 02, 2018, 11:41:31 AM
I see exactly 60,5Hz


In the middle of the stator there is a coil. Not 1 coil but 2 coils.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: oscar on April 02, 2018, 12:27:44 PM
Hi Pierre,
thanks for re-plublishing your 4 videos on your channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbTYIW_yo65zgWdMlcA3s9A)

Hi all,
attached is an animated gif of  Pierre's switching sequence as I understand it

I started out drawing the small static image at the bottom of this posting showing 36 coils, with 1 set of 6 coils energized (the coloured lines),
- red and blue symbolizing magnetic N and S
- the numbers in the image symbolize the 36 slots
- the depicted coils are "wound"  according to Pierre's magic numbers as proven true by r2fpl (http://overunity.com/17653/pierres-170w-in-1600w-out-looped-very-impressive-build-continued-moderated/msg519184/#msg519184)

...a coil span of 6 slots ...
01-06 07-12 13-18 19-24 25-30 31-36
02-07 08-13 14-19 20-25 26-31 32-01
03-08 09-14 15-20 21-26 27-32 33-02
04-09 10-15 16-21 22-27 28-33 34-03
05-10 11-16 17-22 23-28 29-34 35-04
06-11 12-17 18-23 24-29 30-35 36-05

 I note that his one has his magic number sequence 01-06 ; 02-07; 03-08, etc. see post #170.

the animation is meant to show two coil sets (each consisting of 6 coils) energized overlapping in time, to not interrupt the field, as per Pierre's advice.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: r2fpl on April 02, 2018, 01:14:59 PM
oscar, 
excellent animation  :D

It is possible that power on allways 36 coils but only 6 changes off.

Pierre could also do that and talk about 6 not on but off.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: T-1000 on April 02, 2018, 01:42:02 PM
the animation is meant to show two coil sets (each consisting of 6 coils) energized overlapping in time, to not interrupt the field, as per Pierre's advice.

When watching Pierre's 1st video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7BZeeJmvjY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7BZeeJmvjY) in slow motion you will notice there are 7 LEDs activated at the end of 6 relay switch activation cycle. Not sure why 7 as there is 3 phase being rotated..
Also if you flip from one coil into neighboring second without having middle point activated it will cause spikes and nowhere near smooth transition from one to another.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: r2fpl on April 02, 2018, 01:56:12 PM
When watching Pierre's 1st video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7BZeeJmvjY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7BZeeJmvjY) in slow motion you will notice there are 7 LEDs activated at the end of 6 relay switch activation cycle. Not sure why 7 as there is 3 phase being rotated..
Also if you flip from one coil into neighboring second without having middle point activated it will cause spikes and nowhere near smooth transition from one to another.

No 7,  8 !  see 1 relay frame by frame.

1 relay, position (corner) left bottom.

There is more dependence here than we think.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: T-1000 on April 02, 2018, 02:18:06 PM
No 7,  8 !  see 1 relay frame by frame.

Well, apparently there is middle transition as I suspected. 12 relays have delayed active state for while 9 new LEDs are lit on arduino board.

Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on April 02, 2018, 02:44:40 PM
Some LEDs hides behind the wiring
The 3rd pic is taken during a switch phase more LEDs  to be seen!
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: MichelM on April 02, 2018, 04:49:17 PM
The explanation is in his Arduino code.
Indeed, Pierre said that each transistor triggers 2 relays, so 2 lights must light on the relays when only one command "digitalWrite (n, HIGHT) is executed.
Let's look closely at his code, for example the following line:
digitalWrite(4,HIGH), digitalWrite(16,HIGH), digitalWrite(28,HIGH);
This line orders the closure of 6 relays, 3 North and 3 South, sequentially.
But, let's look at 2 lines above, in the code. We have this:
digitalWrite(3,HIGH), digitalWrite(15,HIGH), digitalWrite(27,HIGH);
That is to say that the 6 previous relays are still closed (their Leds are still lit),
because these relays will only be open with the next line.
So, at the moment following the reading of the line ending with "digitalWrite(28,HIGH);"
There are 12 closed relays - 12 LEDs lit.
The line after opens 3 pairs of relays, so off 6 led. At this moment, 6 LEDs in total (on the relays) are lit.
As the ignition and extinction of LEDs of the relay is carried out sequentially, ranging from 6 to 12, when viewing the motion video, we can observe from 6 to 12 LEDs lit on the relay (note that some LEDs can be hidden by the connecting wires).


FR
L'explication se trouve dans son code Arduino.
En effet, Pierre a dit que chaque transistor déclenche 2 relais, donc 2 lumières doivent s'allumer sur les relais lorsqu'une seule commande "digitalWrite(n, HIGHT) est exécutée.
Regardons attentivement son code, par exemple la ligne suivante :
digitalWrite(4,HIGH), digitalWrite(16,HIGH), digitalWrite(28,HIGH);
Cette ligne ordonne la fermeture de 6 relais, 3 Nord et 3 Sud, de façon séquentielle.
Mais, regardons 2 lignes au-dessus, dans le code. Nous avons ceci :
digitalWrite(3,HIGH), digitalWrite(15,HIGH), digitalWrite(27,HIGH);
C'est à dire que les 6 relais précédents sont encore fermés (leurs Leds sont encore allumées),
car ces relais ne seront ouvert qu'avec la ligne suivante.
Donc, à l'instant qui suit la lecture de la ligne se terminant par "digitalWrite(28,HIGH);"
Il y a 12 relais fermés - 12 leds allumées.
La ligne d'après ouvre 3 couples de relais, donc éteint 6 led. A cet instant précis, 6 Leds en tout (sur les relais) sont allumées.
Comme l'allumage et l'extinction des leds des relais s'effectue séquentiellement, variant de 6 à 12, lorsqu'on observe la vidéo image par image, nous pouvons observer entre 6 et 12 Leds allumées sur les relais (notons que certaines Leds peuvent être cachées par les fils de jonction).
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on April 02, 2018, 05:19:09 PM
 :
Hi PmgR,
Seaad posted in another forum "I have toggled the film frame by frame and found that it is always between 6 -12 relay LEDs lit simultaneously"
It may be the overlap is only 1ms, so easily missed that 12 coils are on at the same time?
Regards L192
MichelM  :)
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: MenofFather on April 02, 2018, 10:13:58 PM
About 7-8 leds... I think camera filming in 25 or 30 FPS, so some leds can be not recorded, because it to fast blinking. If camera have fast response time, then it only can shot corectly picture, i Think.
https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--mVR-3336--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/1521653004071786529.jpg (https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--mVR-3336--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/1521653004071786529.jpg)
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on April 03, 2018, 12:02:11 AM
About 7-8 leds... I think camera filming in 25 or 30 FPS, so some leds can be not recorded, because it to fast blinking. If camera have fast response time, then it only can shot corectly picture, i Think.
https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--mVR-3336--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/1521653004071786529.jpg (https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--mVR-3336--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/1521653004071786529.jpg)

For sure MenofFather the camera can fool us so we can not just trust all of what we see. But one thing is always correct that's the sound which conveys the slow repetition frequency.
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on April 12, 2018, 04:27:48 AM
Suggestions to different step pattern to achieve the magnetic locomotion/ rotation.
1 = Now    2a, 2b = New
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: partzman on April 14, 2018, 05:16:16 PM
Suggestions to different step pattern to achieve the magnetic locomotion/ rotation.
1 = Now    2a, 2b = New

Seaad,

IMO, not enough thought has been given to the overall requirements for an efficient rotating electromagnetic field.  For example, take a 5mH coil with .1 ohm dcr we wish to make into an electromagnet at a current level of 1 amp.  To initially charge this coil from say a 10 vdc supply will require a duration of 500us (neglecting any dcr loss) which will consume 2.5mJ of energy.  Now, to maintain 1 amp in this coil for our electromagnet will require a dc voltage of 0.1v which over the same 500us period will consume only 50uJ or 1/50th the charge energy.

This is why Pierre uses a form of switching overlap in an attempt to maintain a constant but moving electromagnetic field.  However, several things to note here-  1) If the mmf or H field or inductor current is maintained at relatively constant level, then little is available for recovery to the power supply.  2) Overlap is not necessary if one considers the action of the collapsing electromagnetic field even in the N_S_N_S_etc configuration.  3) No consideration is being given to the coupling or K factor of the coil arrangement in the above conditions IOW, leakage inductance is ignored.

Also, in Pierre's 1st generator the stationary rotor is driven or induced from the stator's flux fields.  In his 2nd generator design, the rotor will be induced by the H field produced by bucking fields in the stator windings or he will have little or no output.

Regards,
Pm   
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: T-1000 on April 14, 2018, 05:36:00 PM
Seaad,

IMO, not enough thought has been given to the overall requirements for an efficient rotating electromagnetic field.

True, most people just gone and made standard way 3 phase overlapping coils which will result in bucking mode on Pierre's way of driving.
Also after looking more carefully around Pierre's stator winding directions there are 31 coils with wire going CW and 5 coils coing CCW. Why is that no one know but the output coil core is still attached to 5 CW coils. Which allow to amplify magnetic field when turning on two coils in paralel.

Cheers!
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on April 14, 2018, 10:08:29 PM
Seaad,

IMO, not enough thought has been given to the overall requirements for an efficient rotating electromagnetic field. (Math.)

This is why Pierre uses a form of switching overlap in an attempt to maintain a constant but moving electromagnetic field.  However, several things to note here-  1) If the mmf or H field or inductor current is maintained at relatively constant level, then little is available for recovery to the power supply.  2) Overlap is not necessary if one considers the action of the collapsing electromagnetic field even in the N_S_N_S_etc configuration.  3) No consideration is being given to the coupling or K factor of the coil arrangement in the above conditions IOW, leakage inductance is ignored.

Also, in Pierre's 1st generator the stationary rotor is driven or induced from the stator's flux fields.  In his 2nd generator design, the rotor will be induced by the H field produced by bucking fields in the stator windings or he will have little or no output.
Pm   

Hi partzman
Thx for your math example. Your skills there are way above mine. I'm more of a try and error guy ( to lazy, or bad memory for math) and I let the nature tell me. Hope we , I can use that skill. ;)
I understand though your point. It's like accelerating a car and burn fuel.

"" IMO, not enough thought has been given to the overall requirements for an efficient rotating electromagnetic field. ""

Agree! We have to make fundamental experiments about the principles first instead of building complex contraption in the kW-class. See my small experiments in the beginning of this thread.

"" This is why Pierre uses a form of switching overlap in an attempt to maintain a constant but moving electromagnetic field. ""
So did Clemente Figuera also, " always in contact with two collector bars" IMO this Pierre thing is, acts as a Figuera Machine!
But I'm still having heavy doubts about IF THIS PIERRE THING REALLY WORKS!  To slow repetition rate to feed a M.W. Oven!

"" 1) If the mmf or H field or inductor current is maintained at relatively constant level, then little is available for recovery to the power supply. ""
Se my pic. Yes, the coils between the fed, Switched coils have a short time of DC-rest (steady).

But how can we collect and forward the short cutted coils power??



"" 2) Overlap is not necessary if one considers the action of the collapsing electromagnetic field even in the N_S_N_S_etc configuration. ""
Overlap of what. Pulses , coils??    See my post http://overunity.com/17609/170-watts-in-1600-watts-out-looped-very-impressive-build-and-video/msg518124/#msg518124

But if some energy goes, transfers to the fix output "rotor" coil(s) from any of L1 to L5 in my example less power of course is looped back to the source.
In Pierre's case we don't have collapsing fields only shorted fields.   The principle of an OU unit is that the primaries should never "see, know" that the secondary steals power from them!

"" 3) No consideration is being given to the coupling or K factor of the coil arrangement in the above conditions IOW, leakage inductance is ignored. ""
Agree! As I call it "transformer effect" See efficiency in my two pics with the same function but different coil arrangement.I Have tried different K-values in my simulations, but it's impossible there to simulate a Genny-Stator.

Regards Arne





Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: partzman on April 14, 2018, 11:34:20 PM
Hi partzman
Thx for your math example. Your skills there are way above mine. I'm more of a try and error guy ( to lazy, or bad memory for math) and I let the nature tell me. Hope we , I can use that skill. ;)
I understand though your point. It's like accelerating a car and burn fuel.

"" IMO, not enough thought has been given to the overall requirements for an efficient rotating electromagnetic field. ""

Agree! We have to make fundamental experiments about the principles first instead of building complex contraption in the kW-class. See my small experiments in the beginning of this thread.

"" This is why Pierre uses a form of switching overlap in an attempt to maintain a constant but moving electromagnetic field. ""
So did Clemente Figuera also, " always in contact with two collector bars" IMO this Pierre thing is, acts as a Figuera Machine!
But I'm still having heavy doubts about IF THIS PIERRE THING REALLY WORKS!  To slow repetition rate to feed a M.W. Oven!

I have my doubts as well in this regard and for the following reason.  The transformer used in the typical microwave oven for economics sake is designed to operate near maximum flux density of ~1.5T at 50 or 60 Hz depending on location.  If this transformer is run from say a frequency 20% lower than the specified operating frequency, the laminated iron core will saturate and draw a considerably larger current than normal.  If operated at a frequency of 10-20 Hz, the saturation current would be limited only by the dc resistance of the primary and would be huge!  This raises a huge red flag for me and IMO has not been addressed by anyone satisfactorily.  However, for the time being I will give Pierre the benefit of the doubt until evidence points otherwise.

Quote

"" 1) If the mmf or H field or inductor current is maintained at relatively constant level, then little is available for recovery to the power supply. ""
Se my pic. Yes, the coils between the fed, Switched coils have a short time of DC-rest (steady).

But how can we collect and forward the short cutted coils power??

I don't have an answer for you on this at the moment due to what I believe is a far more complex operation than what is apparent.  Pierre says recovery to the cap bank is important and also says that maintaining the field strength is important but I fail to see how both can be accomplished together.  However, there will be a parametric change (increase in inductance) in the coils that are closest to the rotor and if this occurs when the electromagnetic field is held constant, this can provide a gain mechanism based on my previous bench tests so this may provide a means for recovery to the supply.

Also, the coil combinations that are operating in the buck mode may produce an H field in the direction of the rotor which would reinforce the available output energy.  If true however, this would be reflected via Lenz to the stator windings so no gain would be realized.

Quote
"" 2) Overlap is not necessary if one considers the action of the collapsing electromagnetic field even in the N_S_N_S_etc configuration. ""
Overlap of what. Pulses , coils??    See my post http://overunity.com/17609/170-watts-in-1600-watts-out-looped-very-impressive-build-and-video/msg518124/#msg518124

The coils would all be in series but the pulses driving the coils would not need to be overlapped if recovery diodes are connected from coils to the supply rails.  Certain overlap timing can be used with some recovery current seen at the supply and I have a partial simulation which proves this point.  I'm trying to do a complete 30 slot sim with rotor load but the task is huge due to the coil coupling factors which if incorrect, prevent the simulation from converging or completing.  If overlap can't be prevented in the switching circuitry, it should be at a minimum to provide maximum flux transfer to the rotor.

Quote
But if some energy goes, transfers to the fix output "rotor" coil(s) from any of L1 to L5 in my example less power of course is looped back to the source.
In Pierre's case we don't have collapsing fields only shorted fields.   The principle of an OU unit is that the primaries should never "see, know" that the secondary steals power from them!

"" 3) No consideration is being given to the coupling or K factor of the coil arrangement in the above conditions IOW, leakage inductance is ignored. ""
Agree! As I call it "transformer effect" See efficiency in my two pics with the same function but different coil arrangement.I Have tried different K-values in my simulations, but it's impossible there to simulate a Genny-Stator.

Ah yes, so you know exactly what I'm talking about regarding the couplings.  There is a way to simulate any electromagnetic topology in LtSpice and that is to model the core and windings with gyrators and capacitors using behavioral sources but the degree of difficulty for this type of device would be so complex that it would be easier to just build it!

Regards,
Pm

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Regards Arne
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: seaad on April 15, 2018, 12:57:40 AM
I have my doubts as well in this regard and for the following reason.  The transformer used in the typical microwave oven for economics sake is designed to operate near maximum flux density of ~1.5T at 50 or 60 Hz depending on location.  If this transformer is run from say a frequency 20% lower than the specified operating frequency, the laminated iron core will saturate and draw a considerably larger current than normal.  If operated at a frequency of 10-20 Hz, the saturation current would be limited only by the dc resistance of the primary and would be huge!  This raises a huge red flag for me and IMO has not been addressed by anyone satisfactorily.  However, for the time being I will give Pierre the benefit of the doubt until evidence points otherwise.

I have put that question before: My MWO= 800W , Pierres MWO=1500W But but The bulb inside the micro was lit steady!  No flickering at 13-15 Hz!

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Ah yes, so you know exactly what I'm talking about regarding the couplings.  There is a way to simulate any electromagnetic topology in LtSpice and that is to model the core and windings with gyrators and capacitors using behavioral sources but the degree of difficulty for this type of device would be so complex that it would be easier to just build it!

I'm cheating also with LtSpice

Regards Arne
Title: Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
Post by: gotoluc on April 15, 2018, 05:33:52 PM
This topic is now Locked since there is no point of having 2 topics to moderate. However, it is still viewable since it is the original topic and contains many details.
The below link will bring you to the continued open topic.

Fr. Ce sujet est maintenant verrouillé car il n'y a aucune raison d'avoir 2 sujets à modérer. Cependant, il est toujours visible car il s'agit du sujet d'origine et contient de nombreux détails.
Le lien ci-dessous vous amènera au sujet ouvert de continuation.

http://overunity.com/17653/pierres-170w-in-1600w-out-looped-very-impressive-build-continued-moderated/#.WtNxItYpDM0