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Author Topic: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video  (Read 80778 times)

Offline listener191

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #330 on: March 16, 2018, 12:47:15 PM »
The Magneto Motive Flux (MMF) distribution on a single pole (concentrated) winding is rectangular.

After further analysis...

Pierre's winding and coil connection scheme is essentially a 6 coil distributed winding that creates a stepped MMF i.e. due to the coil overlap, the center of the pole has a higher MMF than the edges.

Referring to the attached image.

This illustrates how distributed windings normally work in an AC machine. This example showing 5 coils.

Note: Normally due to stator space, this would be reduced to 3 coils in a practical implementation.

Ok, so Pierre uses 6 coils however, the problem is that his 6 coils only have a 6 slot pitch. This results in a waveform that is triangular in distribution rather than sine.

A gap is needed  to widen the top step, although at the moment I cannot see a solution to a 6 pole configuration using 6 coils.

Two coils on and two coils off per pole may work, although the distribution would not be ideal.

If the poles were reduced to 4, then 3 coils on, 3 coils off could be used, which would yield a much better sine approximation. Then just clock the switching sequence at a higher rate to achieve  60Hz (50Hz).

L192
 
« Last Edit: March 16, 2018, 09:05:42 PM by listener191 »

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Offline listener191

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #331 on: March 16, 2018, 02:23:08 PM »
For those that want to implement the half bridge ladder scheme that Pierre uses, It would seem the the L298N is still the lowest cost solution.

Tie together OUT 1 and OUT 2 and tie together In1 and In2.

Repeat for other side of L298N.

This should be Ok as the manufacturer already permits paralleling the bridges.

This now gives you two independent half bridges, with each Enable input turning off both transistors.

This will then require 36 boards instead of 18 but it is the cheapest solution I can find, unless you want to build your own half bridge boards, which will likely be more expensive.

The combined output stages will provide about 3.5A of continuous current capability.

L192

Offline x_name41

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #332 on: March 16, 2018, 02:53:27 PM »
as shown by the demonstration, capturing energy through diodes to supercapacitors is not enough to obtain self-powered so it is necessary moreover return of a certain quantity of energy from the exit to the entrance, there are 2 energy returns in the system (if it can so be called)

here's something like that only that with the capture of energy from windings that are located on the original ones (something like a transformer is getting)


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #332 on: March 16, 2018, 02:53:27 PM »
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Offline e2matrix

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #333 on: March 16, 2018, 06:10:09 PM »
Attached BTN7960 half bridge.

Would work well for Pierres's switching scheme but a little pricey.

L192


i'm seeing some on Aliexpress.com for around $3.50 to $5.00 a piece if you buy 10 which includes shipping.  Smaller quantities are only a little more.   Some parts from there are good but some are not the best quality.
I also see this ebay seller has 6 of them for $19.99 with free shipping so only $3.33 a piece for those who may want to try that method.


I wrote the above before seeing Listener191 changed to say the L298N can be used and it is still quite a bit less money as he stated in post #373.   

Offline listener191

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #334 on: March 16, 2018, 08:09:43 PM »

i'm seeing some on Aliexpress.com for around $3.50 to $5.00 a piece if you buy 10 which includes shipping.  Smaller quantities are only a little more.   Some parts from there are good but some are not the best quality.
I also see this ebay seller has 6 of them for $19.99 with free shipping so only $3.33 a piece for those who may want to try that method.


I wrote the above before seeing Listener191 changed to say the L298N can be used and it is still quite a bit less money as he stated in post #373.

Hi e2matrix,

For anyone that has already purchased the L298N boards it would be better to utilize them and just add more boards however, the BTN7960 offers higher current capability.

Regards
L192

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #334 on: March 16, 2018, 08:09:43 PM »
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Offline listener191

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #335 on: March 16, 2018, 09:08:12 PM »
I edited post 373 to add another solution for a better distributed sine.

L192

Offline listener191

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #336 on: March 17, 2018, 12:35:16 PM »
For those that want to implement the half bridge ladder scheme that Pierre uses, It would seem the the L298N is still the lowest cost solution.

Tie together OUT 1 and OUT 2 and tie together In1 and In2.

Repeat for other side of L298N.

This should be Ok as the manufacturer already permits paralleling the bridges.

This now gives you two independent half bridges, with each Enable input turning off both transistors.

This will then require 36 boards instead of 18 but it is the cheapest solution I can find, unless you want to build your own half bridge boards, which will likely be more expensive.

The combined output stages will provide about 3.5A of continuous current capability.

L192

Correction to the above.

There are 72 switches required and  with the above modification there are effectively 4 switches in each L298N ( two half bridges), so 18 L298N boards will be sufficient.

L192
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #336 on: March 17, 2018, 12:35:16 PM »
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Offline konehead

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #337 on: March 17, 2018, 01:51:14 PM »
Hi everyone
I made again another drawing, this one shows a 30 pole stator frame, like what Gotoluc is working on (and also I have back in Seattle and two other people I know have also who want to try this rotating field DZ generator by Pierre)
So anyways, this drawing is supposed to show my idea of good way to pulse just one of the 30 sequential pulses per one rotation and is meant to save a lot of switches....maybe all the extra switches Pierre shows is necessary for the big OU effect I don't know for sure but here is how I would do it not to say how I would do it is going to be the best way in end product.
So note in drawing all 6 NSNSNS phases are connected in one string, all connected in series (could do parallel or series and paralleled depending on the impedance you want and thickness of wire you use to wind)
Also note that one phase is Left Hand Rule and the next one Right Hand Rule winding direction to create the NSNSNS situation of the 6 phase pattern.
Now you need just one H switch of 4 switches, to fire all 6 phases in alternating DC, not 24 like Pierre shows....perhaps this will upset the whole thing perhaps not but is a lot simpler to do...I would guess still connect all the diodes as usual to pull out not only any backemf/recoil/flyback, (but seems to me actual backemf/recoil/flyback collecting/steering  diodes only needed on the switches themselves however)
HOWEVER each phase is sharing slot with neighboring phase, and there is that N goinb one way through that slot, and S going other way through same slot and someone else was mentioning this too earlier, and this will create a BUCKING situation there, and to me this also creates soething just like a "shorted" coil too....the scope wave-forms Pierre shows and is concerned about and wants to fix (Pierre is suggesting to Luc to not have shared slots anymore and separate the winds and Luc is worried this change may upset the whole setup)
Anyways these scope wave forms really resemble my experiments with coils in generators shorted at the sinewave peak periods!  And the voltages to fill up caps goes from somewhere around X20 to best I have heard is X 50 when the peaks are shorted....Pierres scope shots show the same flurry of hyper-ringing towards and at the peaks of his messy sinewave!! So "perhaps" this IS a part of the OU effects he gets - the shared slots work to create a shorted-coil situation is what I am saying, and this creates much more voltage and joules to be filling up the caps, much faster, and of higher voltages than would be normal so "perhaps" the N-S sharing of common pole slots is doing this (maybe not)
Here is drawing of my idea for pulsing one phase, of the sequentially pulsed 30 phases:




Offline dole

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #338 on: March 18, 2018, 12:57:18 AM »
There are 72 switches required ...

 My apologize,  Nr.switch = Nr.coils x 2

L298N:
 Motor A truth table ENA             IN1         IN2         Description
0             N/A       N/A       Motor A is off
1             0             0             Motor A is stopped (brakes)
1             0             1             Motor A is on and turning backwards
1             1             0             Motor A is on and turning forwards
1             1             1             Motor A is stopped (brakes)
 
Motor B truth table ENB              IN3         IN4         Description
0             N/A       N/A       Motor B is off
1             0             0             Motor B is stopped (brakes)
1             0             1             Motor B is on and turning backwards
1             1             0             Motor B is on and turning forwards
1             1             1             Motor B is stopped (brakes)
 
   
ps.
Thanks for BTN7960

d.

 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #338 on: March 18, 2018, 12:57:18 AM »
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Offline konehead

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #339 on: March 18, 2018, 08:11:15 AM »
hi everyone
Here is another drawing this time of the five steps of field rotation in a 30 pole stator wired to create 6 poles NSNSNS.

Also this helps as guide  to see where stator windings go and stretch to and from in the stator if rewinding a 30 pole stator...

I don't know if each 12 degree step in a rotation should be of alternating polarity or not, maybe the polarity of all 6 poles should change after the 5 steps or change every step seems like you would make more power with each step changing all 6 polarities all at once on each step but this is not shown here (changing polarities each step so 30 times in a revolution)

Offline konehead

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #340 on: March 18, 2018, 10:34:56 AM »
Hi Erfinder
No problems eh! -for 36 slots, just adjust everything to be one more step now (6 instead of 5)  I am sure you know with 36 slots you will have same as what Pierre has....You have probably seen it, but look at his latest video showing him draw out the 6 NSNSNS phases...included is the many-switches switching method he does, (note the pos and neg rings around) I had to watch a few times on full screen to understand - also note the small arrows he draws to show flow direction too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh4cC9hIXbg


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #340 on: March 18, 2018, 10:34:56 AM »
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Offline konehead

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #341 on: March 18, 2018, 02:41:13 PM »
Hi Erfinder
In answer to your riddle, I would say what not discuused or "seen" much (so far anyways) is the windings and fields NOT being pulsed or intentionally rotated ....so, for every phase(s) pulsed, there are 5 (in 30 pole stator 6 in 36 pole) being induced and getting also their polarities whipped around....and so WHERE does this "5 times greater" induced energy" go to? What does it "want to do"?
I would say it wants to collapse like a pulsed magnetic field would, BUT there is never any OFF period in the scheme of the field rotation, so it cannot collapse even if it wants to, it is trapped and goes along for ride, being induced more and more until it says fuck it and exits out the diodes to be put to good work...so this induced energy puts itself to work reinforcing both the joules filling up the cap bank to keep it looped, also it induces even more power than is "normal" into that fixed-rotor secondary...
Also there is no lenz law from field rotating (as there is if physical rotor rotates) and no CEMF too, in the transformation from primary to secondary, if there was either, this design would never be able to loop (my opinion)  so why is there is no lenz, no CEMF? 
I would say lenz just "does not apply" and no CEMF because there is never an OFF period to that rotation...and/or else the rotation keeps the CEMF from secondary getting a grip on the primary as it is always moving, chasing its own tail...
As for the reversed and colliding flow of fields through the ends of the coils, this is very interesting effect and possibly another factor why this machine design both loops and has such good leftover power...as I wrote about last lengthy post those opposing fields through common stator slot (could) work like a coil short, and guess what happens when an energized coil is briefly shorted for an instant?
 If you have a FWBR or diodes connected from this coil to cap, the cap fills up super fast and very high voltage is what happens....but just having a small portion of the "ends" of a coil passing through a stator slot shared by another coil going other way in its flow direction is new ball of wax to consider what happens in just what it is that happens,  I will guess it causes a brief shorted-at-peak condition to the  coils,  ("hyper ringing")especially when adjacent "reversed flow"  coils are both ON at same time (to make field rotation be without OFF period)
Anyways here below in link to page on my website,  is photo of what I looks like when a generator coil producing square-wave 60hz AC has its leads shorted together briefly with a switch (mechanical in this case) ....look at that hyper ringing as I describe it as, and you can see how caps would fill up very fast and high with this coil rectified and connected to capacitor (photo at bottom of webpage link)
Note it resembles "a bit" how Pierres AC looks, at least at the middle of Pierre's sinewave, and although this photo has much higher voltage peaks than what Pierre has, there is still that similar flurry of spikes in Pierres scope-shot of his wave form too..  so this makes me think a shorted condition does occur from the sharing of stator slot with coils of reversed electrical flow (bucking) but please don't get distracted too much with this it might not be actually the effect the shared-slots create but it might be...
https://sites.google.com/site/alternativeworldenergy/shorting-coils-circuits


Offline konehead

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #342 on: March 18, 2018, 02:56:53 PM »
Hi Erfinder
Forgot to ask, what was it that Gary Porter (captainbythesea) showed everyone but no one could see??
Gary has sent me in my email quite a few examples of how to pulse, how to wire this DZ generator design, I probably have 6 or 7 different ones of how it could be working! So not sure exactly what it is that we should be looking at....
By the way in Gary's last email he mentioned what about a circular central core instead of that fixed rotor?
Good idea eh.....perhaps big torroid I don't know endless possiblilites really...
I think no problem if someone wants to copy to the T what Pierre does (replicate exact ) and why not at least that person will be on same page with Pierre, can confirm, understand better, and then improve upon in next prototype like Pierre is doing already....
Could be going solid state in switchin will destroy the whole design, we will see what happens sure will be lot quitter and more reliable if so....I tend to think a couple copper commutators with brushes would work best and most reliable - one commutator for N pulsing, other for S

Offline gotoluc

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #343 on: March 18, 2018, 04:27:40 PM »
Yesterday I wanted to find the individual coil switching frequency of Pierre's device by taking pictures frame by frame of his video until the switching cycle starts over.
NTSC video is an excellent timing reference because it is fixed at 30 frames per second.
I sent the pictures to PmgR and he came up with the below calculation.

From PmgR: comparing photo 2 and photo 10 (or 1 and 9), that is 8 video frames and a change of 12 coils. So at 30 frames per second that comes down to 0.0222secs for switching to from one to the next coil. That is about 45Hz, probably the fastest the relays can go.

francais
Hier, j'ai voulu trouver la fréquence de commutation de bobine individuelle de l'appareil de Pierre en prenant des photos image par image de sa vidéo jusqu'à ce que le cycle de commutation recommence.
La vidéo NTSC est une excellente référence temporelle car elle est fixée à 30 images par seconde.
J'ai envoyé les images à PmgR et il est venu avec le calcul ci-dessous.

De PmgR: comparer la photo 2 et la photo 10 (ou 1 et 9), soit 8 images vidéo et un changement de 12 bobines. Donc, à 30 images par seconde, cela revient à 0,0222sec pour passer de l'une à la suivante. C'est environ 45Hz, probablement le maximum des relais.

Offline pmgr

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #344 on: March 18, 2018, 04:46:52 PM »
No one seems to comprehend the relation that two properly polarized coils in the same slot represent....  ...  I do....  see image... I eat sleep and breath this concept for the last 8 years....  My opinion doesn't matter though, because I don't have a self running device.... LOL...
Erfinder, please enlighten us all so we may learn in the process  :)


PmgR

 

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