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Author Topic: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video  (Read 85468 times)

Offline listener191

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #315 on: March 15, 2018, 05:31:41 PM »
Just  a message to those using the L298N H dual H bridge.

This device will be fine for a single coil per bridge approach. You wont be able to implement Pierre's serial coil scheme however, as the L298N has a single enable line for each bridge i.e. you cant turn off one side of the bridge. I have been looking for a board with a bank of half bridges but no luck so far. I think it will be an expensive custom build.

Pierre also raised a point about shoot through protection when using an H bridge. The L298N has about 0.3 to 0.4 us of dead time built in so that should be OK.

L192

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Temporal Visitor

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #316 on: March 15, 2018, 05:54:24 PM »
Oh? Well, thank you for your assessment. What's keeping _you_ from doing so?

Maybe this will help:

https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/alternating-current/chpt-13/tesla-polyphase-induction-motors/

I will admit to this much: I don't understand where the excess energy is supposed to come from. But I see many loss mechanisms that are easy to understand.
---------------------------------

(Ramset, you seldom watch videos, I know, but you really should watch this one, it's a thing of beauty you will appreciate.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC_hXGdaSFg

Others may also be interested in the wiring diagram shown at 5:09 in the above video. Replicators of Pierre's device may care to make their own versions of this standard diagram format, showing their connections, and of course the constructions will have to take into account that there are two coils in each slot instead of a single one.

Really, you are welcome and there is nothing keeping me from making a timing diagram which would make it easier to "reverse engineer". However I do my own work start to finish as much as possible, and do reach out for help from others who are better versed in the areas that are not my strengths when the need arises. At this point I don't yet need a timing diagram and spend time on the fundamentals, like: "In the beginning" - the sequence of EVENTS, all the way to the logical end, to make it work on paper first. Don't enjoy the cart before the Horse routine at all.

The first link you provide is great for learning about currently used motors; which is not what this type of system is functionally nor is there any similarity other than being coils of copper in an iron stator.

It would also be great to learn more about the loss mechanisms you see, especially after once you are able to see where and how the input is working. I am quite sure you can comprehend it if/when shown, and most certainly you would be great to have do an honest assessment of the most basic fundamentals that make it a part of what appears to be a new reality.

Thanks for the video link: It inspired me to draw out my understanding of the winding in that "standard diagram format" for helping others rather than the format I need and use to work alone.

Would enjoy trying to show you, and you know how to make that happen.

Offline Jeg

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #317 on: March 15, 2018, 06:56:36 PM »
Hi Jeg,

When the pole transition is aligned with the rotor, you would want the N/S poles to fold back through the end of the rotor and not cross through. This would then be the zero cross point of the sinewave.
One of PgmR's simulations shows this happening.

Regards


L192

Hi L192
That is crystal clear. What i am referring to is the moment when North is followed by the South to the same side of the receiver. That moment is susceptible for high oscillations which will not be corrected by lowering the number of poles.

About timing this is the easy part. It is more difficult to extract the old winding out of a burned car alternator!!! ;D

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #317 on: March 15, 2018, 06:56:36 PM »
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Offline listener191

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #318 on: March 15, 2018, 07:00:37 PM »
Attached BTN7960 half bridge.

Would work well for Pierres's switching scheme but a little pricey.

L192

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline listener191

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #319 on: March 15, 2018, 08:00:50 PM »
Regarding the pole transition issue that Pierre has identified...

If solid state switches were being used, applying pulse width modulation, reducing ON duty cycle to both north and south poles as they approach and leave the rotor, would mitigate the problem without introducing pole gaps.

L192

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #319 on: March 15, 2018, 08:00:50 PM »
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Offline Alex81

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #320 on: March 15, 2018, 08:14:02 PM »
Hi Guys,
Am new here my name is Alex and I am from Germany.
Sorry for my English translated the text with Google, because I can not speak English so well.
The generator from Pierre is very impressive, really a great achievement! This generator is almost the same as that of Ingo Köth on Youtube, but you do not know if you already know it, but he uses a universal motor and controls the 32 contacts of the carbon brushes with 16 n Mosfet and 16 p Mosfet opposite to the half from the stator is north and the other south always in a circle so that one has a rotating magnetic field. According to his statement, he has an ou of 16 times, have already experimented with it a little but so far without success, have the carbon brushes with a small dc motor rotate not the rotor and the stator windings attacked because I have no experience with an Arduino , Would like to build the small flywheel generator of Pierre soon but I am not sure if he has wrapped something on the generator, maybe someone knows what he has modified everything?

Regards
Alex

Offline gotoluc

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #321 on: March 15, 2018, 09:43:43 PM »
Pierre has confirm to me twice now that I have it correct and that all coil slots will end up double coils. So 72 coils in total his 36 slot and it will be 60 coils in my 30 slot.

Luc

To everyone

When I wrote the above post I was thinking of the combined 2 coils in 1 slot (2x30=60). However, the reality is, I have 30 coils in my stator because 1 coil covers 2 slots. So my post was misunderstood by some. Sorry if this confused the already confusing :-\ topic.

Francais
Quand j'ai écrit le post ci-dessus je pensais à la combinaison de 2 bobines dans une ouverture (2x30 = 60). Cependant, la réalité est, j'ai 30 bobines dans mon stator, car 1 bobine fournit  2 ouvertures. Donc, mon message a été mal compris par certains. Désolé si cela a troublé le sujet déjà confus :-\ .

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #321 on: March 15, 2018, 09:43:43 PM »
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Offline Jeg

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #322 on: March 15, 2018, 10:30:52 PM »

 reducing ON duty cycle to both north and south poles as they approach and leave the rotor, would mitigate the problem without introducing pole gaps.

L192

Exautly ;)

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #323 on: March 15, 2018, 10:58:14 PM »
Really, you are welcome and there is nothing keeping me from making a timing diagram which would make it easier to "reverse engineer". However I do my own work start to (snip)

The first link you provide is great for learning about currently used motors; which is not what this type of system is functionally nor is there any similarity other than being coils of copper in an iron stator.
Did you miss the part about the rotating magnetic field?
Quote
It would also be great to learn more about the loss mechanisms you see, especially after once you are able to see where and how the input is working. (snip)

You could start by considering the nearly 250 watts (allegedly) dissipated in the big power resistor. And continue on to consider the massive eddy current losses in the motionless "rotor" and stator cores.

I think I probably have a better idea about "how the input is working" than some others here may have.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #323 on: March 15, 2018, 10:58:14 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #324 on: March 15, 2018, 11:03:39 PM »
Hi L192
That is crystal clear. What i am referring to is the moment when North is followed by the South to the same side of the receiver. That moment is susceptible for high oscillations which will not be corrected by lowering the number of poles.

About timing this is the easy part. It is more difficult to extract the old winding out of a burned car alternator!!! ;D

Jeg, didn't you watch the video I linked above?

You use a cold chisel to cut off the coil wires on _one side only_, flush with the metal of the stator core. Then from the _other side_ where intact loops still exist, you pull the wires out using the loops, while heating the core from inside if necessary to free things up.

The video also shows how the "winding" is done: windings are prepared off the core in "skeins", then are carefully inserted into the core slots.

Offline gotoluc

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #325 on: March 15, 2018, 11:33:21 PM »
reducing ON duty cycle to both north and south poles as they approach and leave the rotor, would mitigate the problem without introducing pole gaps.

francais
réduire le cycle de service ON aux pôles nord et sud à mesure qu'ils s'approchent et quittent le rotor, atténuerait le problème sans introduire d'interstices entre les pôles

L192

I also agree but what if this is what causes the positive results?

francais
Je suis également d'accord, mais il est possible que ce soit ce qui provoque les résultats positifs?

Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #325 on: March 15, 2018, 11:33:21 PM »
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Offline listener191

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #326 on: March 16, 2018, 12:01:02 AM »
Hi Gotoluc,

Well Pierre is talking about separating the poles by two slots, what if that kills the effect?

My view is that if pierre's modification works and produces a cleaner waveform (albeit closer to a triangular step), without loosing the effect, then all well and good.

If not stick with the current scheme and rectify the output to DC and feed a pure sine static inverter.

Depending on the static inverter input say 24VDC model, just use less turns, heavier gauge wire on the rotor. 

Then concentrate on maximizing the input/output ratio.

I don't think you will get a good sine wave output, without applying a sine distribution to the poles.

The other area of experimentation would be to try a cylindrical rotor. 

Regards

L192

Offline Temporal Visitor

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #327 on: March 16, 2018, 12:50:27 AM »
Did you miss the part about the rotating magnetic field?
You could start by considering the nearly 250 watts (allegedly) dissipated in the big power resistor. And continue on to consider the massive eddy current losses in the motionless "rotor" and stator cores.

I think I probably have a better idea about "how the input is working" than some others here may have.

Nope did not miss that part when drawing it and writing out the sequence of events that make sense of it from beginning to end.

Nor did I miss the part where Peirre showed the temp of the resistor and radiator, which is part of the "minus losses" that are very real considerations.

I don't doubt that you do have ideas, and so do the others and myself as well. If I thought otherwise you wouldn't be reading this or anything else from me about your "ability to comprehend it" and my willingness to personally try to show you what you admit you don't understand. Don't get me wrong: I don't claim to know it all or what Peirre actually has going on - but I do know some of what hasn't been discussed here to date.

Two heads can be better than one. - But I know better than to put seven engineers to work designing a Horse: because they'll come up with a Camel every time.

As always: it is up to you.

Offline gotoluc

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #328 on: March 16, 2018, 02:38:12 AM »
Message from Pierre

Hello to all,
I see some have trouble understanding how the dz generator works. I will help by showing you step by step by building a second prototype.
I managed to find a new 10hp 3 phase motor, so it's going to be a bigger prototype than my first version.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I'll be able to build a second functional version that will work right from the start and also solve the problems of the first prototype.
All your constructive comment will be welcome and I would like to thank those who have already given some good advice.
Please be patient because my biggest problem is the lack of free time. I'll only have a few hours on weekends to work on this new prototype, so it's not going to go very quickly but step by step I'll get it done. 

Thanks for everyone support.

Pierre

https://ibb.co/cczLec
https://ibb.co/dewSQH
https://ibb.co/m9VJzc

Text francais original de Pierre
bonjour a tous !comme je voie vous avez du mal a comprendre comment le dz générateur fonctionne je vais vous aidez en vous montrant pas a pas la fabrication de mon deuxième prototype et oui j'ai réussi a trouver un nouveau moteur de 10hp  3ph cette fois ci et donc plus gros que ma première version j'espère pouvoir régler les problèmes du premier prototype pour pouvoir faire une deuxième version fonctionelle je me croise les doigts pour que tout fonctionne du premier coup   tout vos commentaire constructif seront la bienvenue merci déjà a ceux qui mon déjà conseiller il ne vous reste qu'a rester patient car mon plus gros problème est le manque de temps je n'ai que quelque heures les fin de semaine pour travailler sur le prototype alors je n'avance pas vite  pas a pas je vais finir par y arriver merci a tout le monde . pierre!

Offline Jeg

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #329 on: March 16, 2018, 07:56:08 AM »
Jeg, didn't you watch the video I linked above?

You use a cold chisel to cut off the coil wires on _one side only_, flush with the metal of the stator core. Then from the _other side_ where intact loops still exist, you pull the wires out using the loops, while heating the core from inside if necessary to free things up.

The video also shows how the "winding" is done: windings are prepared off the core in "skeins", then are carefully inserted into the core slots.

If i had seen it it wouldn't take me a whole day to clean the core! But the worst is that now my core looks quite small!! :D

 

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