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Author Topic: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video  (Read 95094 times)

Offline listener191

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #210 on: March 12, 2018, 01:29:54 PM »
Hi Konehead,

Does Pierre mean 3 poles pairs (6 poles) or 6 pole pairs (twelve poles)?

L192

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline konehead

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #211 on: March 12, 2018, 02:23:36 PM »
Hi L92
He says six rotating fields in video, then said 6 poles 3 N 3S alternating in magic numbers reply, so must be six poles however he says that there is "overlap" in the "series" coils timing and so you could almost say it is 12 since that overlap "between" almost could be counted as double the number....
Looks like he connects the stator coils in series too such as all one long string of them all the way around then there is a sequence one on, both on, next one on.... however not sure about this - but his circuit drawing shows something like this going on...

Offline listener191

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #212 on: March 12, 2018, 04:04:59 PM »
Hi Konehead,

If you wire all the norths in series and all the souths in series then you only need 12 switches, so you would have to wind 2 more coil sets over 2 more rotations to use all 36 switches.

It makes no sense to me, why you would repeat the same scheme just with a slot offset?

Also the stator looks like it has only has 2 wire bundles per slot?

Each coil must have a reasonable number of turns to achieve viable flux linkage.

Regards

L192

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #212 on: March 12, 2018, 04:04:59 PM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #213 on: March 12, 2018, 04:34:53 PM »
Just to be clear. The coils are not powered in Series. They may look in series looking at the schematic he made but the switch (relay) keeps the coils separate.

I chose the word intertwined but a more direct translation wold be interlaced (EN) from the word entrelasse (FR) if that helps? the below is Pierre French text.

oui votre séquence semble correct chaque paire de chiffre que je vous ai donner est une bobine qui s'entrelasse tous relier en série

Let me know it that helps

Luc

Offline listener191

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #214 on: March 12, 2018, 04:45:20 PM »
Hi Gotoluc,

Ok that makes sense.

Intertwined probably just means lapped, in this case 2 wire bundles in each slot.

The number of turns of each coil would be useful information, as well as wire gauge (looks like 20AWG or 0.8mm)

Regards

L192


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #214 on: March 12, 2018, 04:45:20 PM »
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Offline konehead

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #215 on: March 12, 2018, 04:53:06 PM »
Hi Luc
From the drawing Pierre did of how he switches his coils, and the description he gave, it seems the coils are connected in series, but they are not pulsed together in a series connection (hope that makes sense I think it does).....but to confuse more, there is a "series" sequential rotation to them (one after the other with overlapping time period too)  words are hard to make things clear sometimes!
Intertwined or interlaced both similar words ..... but what I think he is trying to say (maybe) is the coils are all connected together (in series) but not pulsed in series....just as that diagram shows he drew....
I am sure if I stuck that the French you just posted into translator program it will just make it more confusing you do a very great job with translating....
konehead

Offline gotoluc

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #216 on: March 12, 2018, 05:16:32 PM »
I am sure if I stuck that the French you just posted into translator program it will just make it more confusing you do a very great job with translating....
konehead

Thanks konehead
I think it would be even more confusing to use a google translation of Pierre's French text. Give it a try
:D

Google Translation
hello, yes your sequence seems correct every pair of numbers that I gave you is a coil that intertwines all connect in series I would like to put more coil if I had more slot of the stator because I wanted to make a graph in the form of stairs and more steps would have been small between each pulse it could have made a nice curve like a magnet passing in front of a coil to make the current (see photo 1) left standard alternating current wave and right curve that I wanted to get but as you know my system does not work as I want it yes it seems to work at first glance but in part only the curve I wanted only works on some portion (see photos 2) and I got several peaks very high and a lot of Fluctuation is what is due to my craft winding, relays that does not open at the right time a few milliseconds can make the difference, the induction of a reel to another ?? or a stroke of luck myself I was surprised at the result, actually for the moment I do not know I'm trying to understand what I made all I know is that I got a can of voltage .but not usable if I can not understand the principle of the generator dz for the moment I try to solve this problem, for which of the 6 poles I use 6 nsnsns but maybe 2 -3-4 poles could have worked I do not know I did not test I started to study the magnetic field phenomenon there is a little less than a year and I am far from an expert a this subject for the moment there is a lot of work to arrive at something viable and functional and with my work I do not have much time in a week to do experiments. as for the sequence of the arduino when you will do the sequence you will have to turn on one coil and then the other and eventually turn off the first one otherwise you will cut the magnetic field the goal being not to turn off the stream only move it ex: 1 on, 2 on, 1 off, 3 on, 2 off etc. for which of the diodes back it was installed directly on the reels but there are probably ways to do it more simply I wanted to manage the power with another arduino but I was eager to test my device and finally I connect it directly without control it would have reduced the consumption to enter the how much I do not know, I do not know if you noticed but the supercapacitor was designed to rise up to 48 volts and I only 26volts injected but saw the problem meet I liked better wait for the next prototype, do not hesitate to take the initiative if you can improve things made it the generator dz is still developing there are probably something that my escape but has several we will eventually find the solution thank you.
for who's pictures I'm not able to send them to you he talks about moderator and anyway I think my photos are too heavy

My translation
I use 6 poles, nsnsns but maybe a 2, 3 or 4 poles could worked? I don't know, as I haven't built or tested it.
The firring sequence konehead has shared seems correct. Every pair of numbers that I gave him is a coil which intertwines and are all connected in series.
I would of liked to add more coils if the stator had more slot, because I would of liked a wave in the form of stairs so the steps would be smaller between each pulse, which could of produced a nicer curve like a magnet passing a coil which makes current wave as pic 1 (left) and (right) is a standard step alternating current curve which I would of liked but my generator is not yet ideal.
At first glance it seems to work but with only a portion of the curve I wanted to produce (pic 2)
The peaks have a lot of Fluctuations, some are higher then others.
Possibly some relays don't open at the exact time. Just a few milliseconds can make a difference. Maybe variation in induction from one coil to another plays part?  probably my winding skills are to blame?  it's a stroke of luck to get it all right.
I was surprised of the result. Still I don't yet fully understand what I built.
All I know is that I was able to get some extra voltage. However, it's not useful if I don't understand the generators principle! At this time I'm trying to solve this problem.
A little less then a year ago I started to study magnetic field phenomenons but I'm far from being an expert on the subject. There's still a lot to improve to achieve something functional and reliable.
As you know, my work takes most of my time during the week, so I don't have much time left to experiment.
About the sequence of the arduino, when one coil is powered on the next coil will also be powered on before the previous is turned off (overlap) otherwise you will break the magnetic field. The goal is not to turn off the magnetic stream, you only want to keep it moving.  Switching example: 1 on, 2 on, 1 off, 3 on, 2 off etc.
The flyback diodes are connected to each coil but there's probably simple ways to do it?
I wanted to regulate the input power with another arduino but I was too eager to test my device so I directly connected it without input control. Maybe I could of reduced the input power but how much I do not know.
I don't know if you noticed the super capacitors can handle up to 48 volts. I only used 26volts but because of the problems I encountered.  I prefer to wait to test higher voltage on the next prototype.
Don't hesitate to take the initiative if you can improve the dz generator. It's still in developing stage and there's probably many things I haven't thought of that can be improved.
If we work together we will eventually find the ideal solution.

His original French text
bonjour ,oui votre séquence semble correct chaque paire de chiffre que je vous ai donner est une bobine qui s'entrelasse tous relier en série  j'aurait aimer mettre plus de bobine si j'aurait eu plus de fente du stator car je voulait faire un graphique en forme d'escalier et plus les pas aurait été petit entre chaque pulsation  cela aurait pu faire une belle courbe comme une aimant passant devant une bobine pour faire du courant (voir photo 1) a gauche onde courant alternatif standard et a droit la courbe que je voulait obtenir  mais comme vous le savez mon system ne fonctionne pas encore comme je le veut oui ca semble fonctionner a première vue mais en partie seulement la courbe que je désirait  fonctionne seulement sur quelque portion ( voir photos 2) et j'ai obtenue plusieurs  pointe très haute et beaucoup de Fluctuation est ce que c'est du a mon bobinage artisanal ,les relais qui ne s'ouvre pas au bon moment quelque milliseconde peuvent  faire la différence  ,l'induction d'une bobine a l'autre ?? ou bien un coup de chance moi même j'ai été surpris du résultat , en fait pour le moment j'en sait rien je tente de comprendre  ce que j'ai fabriquer tout ce que je sait c'est que j'ai obtenue un peut de voltage .mais inutilisable si je n'arrive pas a comprendre le principe du dz générateur pour le moment je tente de régler  ce problème, pour de qui est des 6 pôles moi j'en ai utiliser 6 nsnsns mais peut-être que 2-3-4 pôles aurait pu fonctionner je ne sait pas je ne l'ai pas tester j'ai commencé a étudier le phénomènes des champ magnétique il y a un peut moins d'un an et je suis loin d'être un spécialiste a ce sujet pour le moment   il y a beaucoup de travail  pour en arriver a quelque chose de viable  et fonctionelle et avec mon travail il ne me reste pas beaucoup de temps dans une semaine a faire des expérimentations . pour de ce qui est de la séquence de l'arduino quand vous ferez la séquence vous devrez allumer une bobine et puis l'autre  et par la suite éteindre la première  sinon vous allez coupé le champ magnétique le but étant de ne pas éteindre le flux seulement le déplacer    ex:1 on, 2 on, 1 off ,3 on, 2 off etc. pour de qui est des diodes de retour il on été  installé  directement sur les bobines mais ils y a probablement des façon de le faire plus simplement je voulait gèrer l'alimentation avec un autre arduino mais j'avait hâte de tester mon appareil et finalement je l'ai brancher directement sans control cela aurait permis de diminuer la consommation a l'entrer de combien je ne sait pas ,je ne sait pas si vous l'avez remarquer mais les supercapaciteur on été conçue pour monté jusqu'a 48 volts et je ne lui est injecter que 26volts  mais vus les problème rencontrer j'aimais mieux attendre au prochain prototype , n'hésiter pas a prendre l'initiative si vous pouvez améliorer des choses faite-le le dz générateur est encore en développement  il y a surement des chose qui mon échapper mais a plusieurs on finiras par trouver la solution merci.
pour de qui est des photos je suis pas capable de vous les faire parvenir  il me parle  de modérateur et de toute façon je croit que mes photos sont trop lourde

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #216 on: March 12, 2018, 05:16:32 PM »
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Offline listener191

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #217 on: March 12, 2018, 05:31:54 PM »
Now here is another aspect..coil current.

The DC rail under load appears to drop to around 21V. The unloaded rail is about 25V.

The AC power into the transformer is about 113V x 1.6A or about 180W with the microwave oven load (note I think that meter has a 100A range so that current reading could be +/- 0.1A according to the specs).

Now about 11W of the 180W is the transformer magnetizing current based on the 115V flickering 0.1A no load readings.

Lets take that 180W as a worst case, so 180W/21V= 8.57A average  .. 8.57A/12 coils on at any time (assuming overlapping on periods) = 0.71A average per coil.

So those L298N H bridges should be OK as they are rated at 2A continuous per output.  (you can also parallel them to get up to 3.5A)

We have not seen a scope waveform of a coil current pulse yet but I think that would be interesting to see.

The clock period for obtaining 60Hz is 100ms. The ON period could exceed 100ms running into the next coil period before turning OFF for coil recovery.   

L192

Offline listener191

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #218 on: March 12, 2018, 05:45:34 PM »
Regarding the stepped sine approximation. I would ask Pierre just to try a suitably rated poly cap of about 50 to 60uf in parallel with the fixed rotor coil. That or an adjusted value will clean up the steps into a sine wave however, I would be cautious that this does not cause the setup to drop out of OU, as this cap would also effect the CEMF phase.

Another way would be another large value inductor in series with the fixed rotor output. That will add some IR losses though.

Another thought is use H bridges and run the whole setup at a higher frequency, but lower voltage say 24V, rectify the output and feed a pure sine static inverter to obtain the voltage and frequency desired.   

L192

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #218 on: March 12, 2018, 05:45:34 PM »
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Offline listener191

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #219 on: March 12, 2018, 05:54:32 PM »
The inductance of the coils is not consistent through rotation, so some current pulses will be higher than others, also relay contacts may be sparking. The use of H bridges would clean this up.

A 4 pole fixed rotor would help mitigate the current amplitude variation.

A cylindrical rotor would provide a uniform air gap and maintain a constant coil inductance however, this may also alter the OU condition.

L192

Offline listener191

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #220 on: March 12, 2018, 06:36:21 PM »
As you would not want to use Pulse Width Moduation on the Arduino pulse outputs, to maintain overlapping pulses, I would suggest using a switch mode power supply with a variable voltage and current limit.

This would also allow you to eliminate the large current limit resistor, as the switch mode power supply would limit the current to its maximum automatically, avoiding waste of energy in the resistor.

The switch mode power supply could be a 115VAC input chassis unit, or bench supply unit, or to reduce cost, use a low voltage winding on the rotor, rectify and smooth, then one of the switch mode power supply boards that are on the market that take say a 50V DC input and have an output controllable over 0-50V up to 5A  250W.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?ff3=4&toolid=11800&pub=5574900467&campid=5338252492&mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F332472222974%3FrmvSB%3Dtrue

 

L192
« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 09:38:24 PM by hartiberlin »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #220 on: March 12, 2018, 06:36:21 PM »
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Offline konehead

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #221 on: March 12, 2018, 07:40:02 PM »
Hi L192 and everyone
Those switched mode power supplies look good very cheap too....I am not familiar with them actually so can only say they look really good sorry.....
You know, Pierre says right there plain as day he wants us to help him improve it, and  he wants us to try doing it too ourselves....this is very rare for an inventor/builder who has constructed a LOOPING device with over a thousand watts leftover to say something like this!

So lets help all we can, in return we will learn ourselves the principle and method as we study just how it does work....understanding why it works is secondary to fact that it does, but it would be very good to understand fully too of course...

And I think anyone who can explain "for sure" to Pierre logically and plainly how it works to him, he would be most grateful fir this,  as he says he wants to understand it!!  (I don't know how myself so cannot explain but can only say it is like a cat chasing its own tail and never catching it but I don't know really)....

Anyways here are suggestions:
1) to clean up the AC, just put all power created into DC caps and run pure sinewave invertor (very simple already suggested before by quite a few on his youtube channel)
2) 1 to 1 transformer on the output (Gary Porters suggestion) and the core material of it will clean up the AC stuff....Gary just suggested this on part4 youtube video
3) AC filters and caps on the choppy spikey AC created ( could get very tricky and complicated)

So that is  suggestions on the AC clean up plan...

For switching, obviously get rid of the mechanical relays, they will not last too long anyways, so  I would suggest using solid state mosfet relays, as you can simply fire them one at a time, with overlapping time periods too, whenever you want to do it with a signal from 3 to 36V dc at the gates/triggers....probably they can hook directly to arduino without the transistors between, but not sure about this...
when you work with mosfets there is always that problem of the gate "sharing" the ground/source like N channel types for example and you cannot easily string them together with overlapping ON times but with solid state relays there is no problem like this....maybe Pierre used those blue  relays because of the overlapping periods he just revealed to us....and to do it mosfet-switching would of been a huge headache....but with the solid state mosfet relays no problem you can hook them up just like the blue relays also the backemf/recoil can be taken out of them just the same as if regular mosfets so there is my measly two cents on switching improvements.  Downside is those SS relays are going to cost maybe 5 bucks apiece getting them cheap in quantity and they are fairly bulky too....some of them are slow switchers but not all of them.... ones rated for 60VDC should switch pretty quick....





 

Offline listener191

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #222 on: March 12, 2018, 07:40:35 PM »
Pierre's relay H bridge doesn't have the lower set of diodes
If the lower switches are turned off completely the coil energy will not be recovered, as there will be no current path.

L192

Offline listener191

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #223 on: March 12, 2018, 07:55:04 PM »
See attached.

Each board is a dual H bridge.

2A per bridge up to 35VDC (46VDC if you remove or replace the VCC cap).

5V logic drive directly from arduino.

Over temperature protected.

Supports current limiting.

Outputs can be paralleled for 3.5A max.

35 USD  for 20 pcs.

L192

Offline gyulasun

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #224 on: March 12, 2018, 08:24:30 PM »
Dear L192,

Would mind editing this post of yours and replace the ebay link with this shorter link which goes to the same ebay offer:

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?ff3=4&toolid=11800&pub=5574900467&campid=5338252492&mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F332472222974%3FrmvSB%3Dtrue

I ask this because sometimes the too long links cause the same problem the attached pictures do when their horizontal pixel number is > 900 or so. 

Thanks.


As you would not want to use Pulse Width Moduation on the Arduino pulse outputs, to maintain overlapping pulses, I would suggest using a switch mode power supply with a variable voltage and current limit.

This would also allow you to eliminate the large current limit resistor, as the switch mode power supply would limit the current to its maximum automatically, avoiding waste of energy in the resistor.

The switch mode power supply could be a 115VAC input chassis unit, or bench supply unit, or to reduce cost, use a low voltage winding on the rotor, rectify and smooth, then one of the switch mode power supply boards that are on the market that take say a 50V DC input and have an output controllable over 0-50V up to 5A  250W.

 -----

L192
« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 09:39:09 PM by hartiberlin »

 

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