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Author Topic: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video  (Read 81238 times)

Offline pmgr

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #180 on: March 10, 2018, 10:02:56 AM »
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the question I ask is why 6 poles when there's only a two pole pickup assembly......  its like the bulk of the field will have very little impact...that's been my experience when dealing with such matters....


The relays have limited speed. For one rotation you need to trigger 36(x2) relays before the pattern repeats. If you have a stator with 2n poles, you only need to trigger 36/n relays before the pattern repeats. So for 6 poles (n=3) you are basically effectively increasing your switching frequency by a factor of 3 without having to get relays that can go three times faster.


PmgR

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Offline listener191

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #181 on: March 10, 2018, 11:09:31 AM »
See attached.

If you have 6 poles, each coil pitch over 3 slots then you end up with an asymmetric flux.

If you use 3 poles, each coil pitch over 6 slots then you end up with symmetrical flux. The scheme is possible using H bridges instead of relays as you can then just increase the clock rate.

So it seems Pierre, restrained by the relay switching rate, just spread the 6 pole sequence beyond 360 degrees, to achieve symmetry.

L192

Offline listener191

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #182 on: March 10, 2018, 05:58:42 PM »
The attached is a dual H bridge board based on the L298N. 2A per bridge up to 46VDC. Offers a current sense output that might be useful.

So x18 of these would be required. This may be the cheapest way rather than building boards with MOSFETS. Various suppliers on ebay. Also save time.

L192

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #182 on: March 10, 2018, 05:58:42 PM »
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Offline listener191

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #183 on: March 10, 2018, 06:15:31 PM »
I should have mentioned.

The board will interface directly with the 2560 Arduino.

The board has recovery diodes, so just connect to the cap bank.

l192

Offline cheors

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #184 on: March 10, 2018, 08:17:23 PM »
Yes, these boards could be very useful.

https://i62.servimg.com/u/f62/18/62/17/81/dzgene10.jpg

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #184 on: March 10, 2018, 08:17:23 PM »
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Offline konehead

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #185 on: March 11, 2018, 10:35:28 AM »
Hi Everyone
My friend and ace engineer "Skipperbythesea" just made a drawing and graph showing how to sequentially pulse that 360 degree field rotation, now knowing it is 6 poles NSNSNS rotating sequentially...he did this in relation to the "magic numbers" winding pattern that Pierre gave too....so this is in attachment...

Also, another friend made some contact with a factory-owner who does a lot of motor rewinding and "free energy motor" building and testing too and this guy was overjoyed with that magic numbers winding pattern and says it saturates and will work better than anything he has seen (not his exact words but he really liked it)....

Important to note:  this factory owner says there are multiple wires per slot and there is much overlapping going on, and also separate phase wires side by side in the slots!!

So this has me thinking, that pattern I drew out with the colored lines, like everyone notices, when it reached poles 31 and 32 suddenly the pattern stops, and it becomes "red red" right next to one another, and not red-red spaced out the 6 poles distance, like it was in the previous 6 (?) phases
(total of 7 red-red phases if you count)

So what I think is this pattern CONTINUES around....and the way it suddenly goes out of "linear logic" at poles 31 and 32 is where it starts its "staggered" overlapping pattern of phases!....so continue this magic number pattern around again in another revolution of the 36 poles and slots....then do it again, and again and again.....eventually there will be multiple wires in each slot...

Does anyone know how many wires there are within each slot?????  I will guess 5 or 6 but do not know...
If we know that, we will know how many "rotations" of that magic number windings pattern there are....looks to me now this stator is re-wound as I doubt motor manufacturers would do crazy patterns like this, but maybe so.......



Offline gotoluc

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #186 on: March 11, 2018, 11:25:40 AM »
Does anyone know how many wires there are within each slot? ??? ?  I will guess 5 or 6 but do not know...
If we know that, we will know how many "rotations" of that magic number windings pattern there are....looks to me now this stator is re-wound as I doubt motor manufacturers would do crazy patterns like this, but maybe so.......

Hi Doug, thanks for the update.
I asked the same question here:  http://overunity.com/17609/170-watts-in-1600-watts-out-looped-very-impressive-build-and-video/msg518079/#msg518079
I found the motor Pierre's stator is from and was wondering if he cut and tapped in to the existing windings?
I'll send him that question and a few others I received,

Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #186 on: March 11, 2018, 11:25:40 AM »
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Offline seaad

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #187 on: March 11, 2018, 11:28:24 AM »
  It is possible using H bridges instead of relays as you can then just increase the clock rate.
So it seems Pierre, restrained by the relay switching rate,
L192

Now you have to consider that you have to use some ferrite core material instead of iron.
You can't just pick an ordinary genny stator!

Even in Pierres case, the stator have to handle the fast rising and falling pulses.

The picture below shows a way to recover, reusing Power from a/ the previous input stator coil(s). (About 80-90% total loop)

Regards / Arne

Offline konehead

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #188 on: March 11, 2018, 11:43:36 AM »
Hi Luc
thanks and please send him that diagram I just posted, with Skipperbythsea's sequentially pulsed method and see if he gives that his OK....
Also can you ask if the magic numbers pattern "continues around" (and around) so that the multiple wires within a slot become wires from the 5 different phases (red black blue green yellow in my drawing)
thanks again
konehead

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #188 on: March 11, 2018, 11:43:36 AM »
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Offline seaad

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #189 on: March 11, 2018, 12:07:08 PM »
What's stopping the supply from charging your recovery capacitors among other things.....? 
Regards

When running, the feed back loop voltage is higher than the voltage from battery after first diode at some time intervals.
R / Arne

Offline cheors

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #190 on: March 11, 2018, 12:32:21 PM »
Detail how L298 module could be used :

https://i62.servimg.com/u/f62/18/62/17/81/dzgene13.jpg

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #190 on: March 11, 2018, 12:32:21 PM »
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Offline listener191

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #191 on: March 11, 2018, 01:12:28 PM »
The coil switching conditions are similar to that in a switched reluctance motor.
In the situation where coil inductance is reduced i.e. not in registration with the rotor, usually current has to be limited particularly at low RPM.
As this generator runs at a fixed Phase RPM current limiting is not necessary, as currently operated.

No doubt there is energy wasted due to large angle over which the stator coils are not in registration with the fixed rotor, that can only really be mitigated by more rotor poles.

I think for an initial experimental build, the recovery that an H bridge provides is OK.

I believe Pierre is running the coils at a conservative voltage/current and I would imagine the current waveform is a typical sawtooth, with some variation for the coils in registration with the fixed rotor.

A faster rise time current waveform may be obtained by increasing the applied voltage. Current limit still to be observed though for the switch devices.

One interesting way for this to be achieved is to feed the cap bank to the switching devices rail and a smaller value cap via a suitable fast power diode.

The smaller value cap isolated by the diode, will develop a voltage larger than the supply rail due to the large recovery voltage spikes and the fast charge rate of the smaller cap.
This will help reduce the coil current  rise time. Now when you do this, you have to ensure your switching devices voltage rating will be adequate.

I have attached a scope shot (taken on an old digital scope), illustrating the effect of the higher voltage on a particular type of switched reluctance motor. Note the very fast current rise time in red and the resulting flux waveform in yellow (in this case saturating).

L192
 

Offline listener191

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #192 on: March 11, 2018, 01:16:49 PM »
Apologies I have done it again and I still cant find a way to delete the attachment.
L192

OK fixed it!

Offline seaad

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #193 on: March 11, 2018, 02:10:31 PM »
No doubt there is energy wasted due to large angle over which the stator coils are not in registration with the fixed rotor, that can only really be mitigated by more rotor poles.
L192
When primary field not in registration with the fixed rotor. Why keep on making a rotating field there in that stator sector (no-man's-land
) at all ?? With one fixed rotor. (Six poles !!)

Offline listener191

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #194 on: March 11, 2018, 02:16:14 PM »
Attached is an old circuit that I used on special type of switched reluctance motor.
It illustrates my previous post.

Note: I would only use MOSFET's these days not IGBT's as shown.

MOSFET's are far more robust for experimentation.

L192

 

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