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Author Topic: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video  (Read 95283 times)

Offline konehead

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #165 on: March 09, 2018, 09:18:37 PM »
Hi Everyone
Pierre wrote me private message, and gave me the "magic numbers" how the stator windings connect!! Maybe he likes me because I am a konehead haha I don't know but here are the numbers
in the schematic jpg
I also drew up too of how they connect. The colored pattern is red black blue green yellow
Note how at 31 and 32 poles the pattern becomes "red red" as there seems to be some sort of 35 vs 36 situation going on and one extra pole appears....anyways please study this as it is direct from Pierre.
Also note he said there are 6 poles in the rotating filed, and these are NSNSNS....

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Offline konehead

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #166 on: March 09, 2018, 09:33:24 PM »
hi all
looking at the pattern of stator connects, seems to be 6 poles pulsed, then one blank pole, then another 6, then another blank pole and another 6 around the stators like that......so makes some sense with separation of N and S of NSNSNS pattern of pulsed stators being only one blank pole...count out the pattern you see what I mean...Also you see for example 7 "red to red" connections going around stator so here again is an odd vs even situation perhaps these magic numbers he gave is reason for no lenz law appearing I don't know


Offline listener191

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #167 on: March 09, 2018, 10:00:07 PM »
Hi Konehead,

Pretty much what I had deduced over the last few days. Thanks for getting the information.

If I can find a 36 slot stator DWG file I will also model this in FEMM.

I think we have already seen from the simulation that PmgR has done, that when the stator coil flux is out of alignment with the rotor, i.e.the flux enters at an angle, the counter flux due to the load  is directed mainly straight into the stator, which indicates that there will be a phase difference between the energizing flux and the counter flux. This implies a lower level of cancellation due to CEMF.

I have a burnt out 3 phase 2 pole generator coming my way next week, so I will also be able to replicate exactly, (if the stator has 36 slots!).

Regards

L192

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #167 on: March 09, 2018, 10:00:07 PM »
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Offline ariovaldo

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #168 on: March 09, 2018, 10:36:26 PM »
I'm done. Thanks

Offline gotoluc

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #169 on: March 09, 2018, 11:08:13 PM »
Thanks for sharing Konehead

From the below pic I took of Pierre's first video you can see the motor stator part number: 36A01W462
Which is from a Baldor 5HP 2850 RPM 50Hz 3Phase Motor, Volts 208/360/415, AMPs 13.2/7.6/6
Baldor motor PDF: https://www.baldorvip.com/servlet/productInfoPacket/M3613T-50.pdf

Question to anyone that knows: has Pierre mention anywhere if he rewound his stator?

Luc

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #169 on: March 09, 2018, 11:08:13 PM »
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Offline pmgr

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #170 on: March 09, 2018, 11:53:06 PM »
Gentlemen,


Sorry folks, but if the schematic that Konehead provides is a true accurate account from the source, somethings not right, the statement at the bottom, the drawing, and the number sequence paint a very different picture than the one that you all are discussing... and agreeing on!  WTF folk!


there are:


7 coils per group NOT 6!!!
5 poles per coil
6 slots per coil


example....


red group.....numbers refer to slots....


1-6, 6-11, 11-16, 16-21, 21-26, 26-31, 1-32 = 7 coils!!!


Konehead himself noticed the gap in the coils, but did not notice that the total number is 7.  This is important because it means two coils will have the same magnetic orientation at the gap, a point in the magnetic circuit where we find a coincident pole.  That said, inside the alternating field, focused at one single pole, the magnetic field bucks....  That changes things, everything... especially when you consider there are 5 phases (not 6...  72° magic number...)....  rotating field....can you see what's rotating...


some are jumping the gun too quickly.....  Its unfortunate that I am the first to see this, those who have started building are for the lack of a more professional way of stating this....FUCKED... 


The thought that was invested in the 5 fold symmetry, and its use in forcing a non linear relation within the magnetic circuit leads me to suspect that this guy is way more clever than the folk trying to figure out what he is up to.......LOL

Here's the fucked up part....  I caught this, but I am not going to get the credit for it....



Regards
Erfinder, I believe you are correct. Also Koneheads upper left drawing seems to be messed up in terms of colors and connections (?). E.g. the 26-31 connection should be red, the 27-32 connection should be black, 28-33 should be blue, 29-34 should be green, 30 to 35 should be yellow.


Then going from the upper left corner to the upper right corner, red 36 should get connected to yellow 5, black 32 to to red 1, blue 33 to black 2, green 34 to blue 3 and yellow 35 to green 4.


Anyway, using the magic numbers, there are 7x5=35 contact points which makes sense with why his transistor board is arranged in a 5x7 transistor layout (yet two more transistors appear to have been added later on and transistor 35 never goes on as stated before.


Maybe connection 36 is a relay for a ground connection?


A bit confused now. Let me know what I should model next....


PmgR
« Last Edit: March 10, 2018, 02:02:43 AM by pmgr »

Offline pmgr

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #171 on: March 10, 2018, 05:00:18 AM »
We are over-complicating things (excuse the pleonasm). I think L192 was correct from the start. There are 6 poles, NSNSNS and they span the 36 slots. Each of the windings spans 6 slots.


Then there are 3 phases, each phase firing up two coils for a total of six coils (hence also the six blue LEDs that light up in 3 pairs of 2 at a time).


First coils has windings near slot 1 and slot 6: magic number 1-6
Second coil has its windings near slot 2 and slot 7: magic number 2-7 
Third coil has its windings near slot 3 and slot 8: magic number 3-8
etc.
Coil 36 (last coil) has its windings near slot 36 and slot 5: magic number 36-5


Each magic set is biased 180deg out of phase with the previous set.


This will create six poles N-S-N-S-N-S.


Then stepping through the poles will provide the spinning field.


Attached is a quick simulation of the field. Will run a full rotation shortly and make an animated GIF.



PmgR
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* Truthfulness * Compassion * Forbearance * www.falundafa.org

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #171 on: March 10, 2018, 05:00:18 AM »
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Offline pmgr

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #172 on: March 10, 2018, 05:18:58 AM »
Here are two simulations (2 different speeds: 0.075sec framerate and 0.125sec framerate, please provide feedback which delay works best for you). Hopefully they will upload correctly...


Interesting thing to see from the simulation is that when a N-pole and a S-pole face each other through the center coil, they prefer to directly fold back on themselves through the stator instead of going through the center coil (see attached image). Also note the clearly distinguishable 6 poles with each pole switching its field direction (SNSNSN).

Edit: looks like the upload is still not working. Find a zip file attached instead. Unzip with powerarchiver and ignore any CRC errors.


PmgR
====
* Truthfulness * Compassion * Forbearance * www.falundafa.org
« Last Edit: March 10, 2018, 09:34:58 AM by pmgr »

Offline konehead

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #173 on: March 10, 2018, 06:41:05 AM »
Hi all
Pierre is watching discussion here and that is why he sent me the magic numbers list I think so anyways as some were going in other direction in ideas how it works and Pierre wanted to get everyone on right path of what he does
Maybe some other methods will work you will only know by bench testing but as far as what it is that Pierre - did that is in His magic number list.
Pierre did not do the colored wire connections I did that and like erfindef noticed it gets fucked up around th 31 to 32 slots  - sorry I would write "poles" instead of slots- and i am glad i did those colored connections as it really sheds light on the sator connection pattern being not so logical and predictable instead it gets fucked up around pkles 31 32 and note how tbe color pattern must change just tbere at upper lef as erfinder noticedt
This is "how it is" according to magic numbers provided. Pierre is trying to help understanding this is good ....now I wonder if stator of stock 3ph motor needs to be rewound like this or not.
Pierre states 6  magnetic fields rotate co that is th nsnsns 6 pole sequentially pulsing going on. I dot think the rotating pulsed field is done in three phase it is 6 poles nsnsns spinning around this Pierre wrote so take his word for it eh


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #173 on: March 10, 2018, 06:41:05 AM »
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Offline konehead

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #174 on: March 10, 2018, 09:22:39 AM »
Hi Erfinder
Just to clear up things, here is the exact message I got from Pierre:

"hello, the magic numbers are 1-6,2-7,3-8,4-9,5-10,6-11,7-12,8-13,9-14,10-15,11-16, 12-17,13-18,14-19,15-20,16-21,17-22,18-23,19-24,20-25,21-26,22-27,23-28,24- 29,25-30,26-31,27-32,28-33,29-34,30-35,31-36,32-1,33-2,34-3,35-4,36-5 this is not 3 north or south pole, there are 6 pole 3 north and 3 south alternately you should review the magnetic field simulation it will never work with your configuration"

I edited out the last sentence, since it is confusing the translation, )as the magnetic field simulation posted on the board, is not "my" (yours) configuration but rather others idea.  Substitute the word "that" with "your" in his statement and it makes sense .......he is saying that magnetic field simulation will not work, and I should "review" it....by reviewing it, I think he means to take another look at it, its will not work!
Also note Pierre says "this is not 3 north or south pole".... "like first simulation....
Anyways it is important to note there are TWO things being described - first is the stator wiring connections and how that is done.....so I had sent him that simple 36 pole drawing I did earilier, with no connections just 1 to 36 poles" labeled around it, and I asked him when looking at that drawing, what are the corresponding numbers on how the stators connect???
So Pierre answered that question plain as day - and he gave the magic numbers and this is how the stator wiring connects.......
Now the other thing we are looking at is just how is that rotating sequentially pulsed field pulsed, in what pattern/shape is it?   What polarities? 
Now here, Pierre has already explained on video it is 6 magnetic fields rotating....
So now we know from this message that it is a 6 pole magnetic field, and these poles are configured NSNSNS since he says NS alternatively....
So now it seems you need to send a pulse in through #1 and out #6 (as example)....then go over to the other side of stator, and send a pulse through (in opposite polarity than 1 and 6) and figure out which wires are exactly 180 degrees across, and that is one of the three pulses going into the stators, that rotates....now just go over 60 degrees do the next position, send in power one way on one side and opposite way on other, then go over again 60 degrees again and do it all again there....so this will complete just one pulse of the rotating field, now it is just matter of doing it all around the stator timed to create the sequentially pulsed rotating field....I will "assume" it goes one pole position at a time for 36 pulses per revolution but maybe only 35? considering how the stator wiring pattern goes out of logic around poles 31 and 32 but who knows maybe this is common way 3ph AC motors connect their wiring I  don't know.
Anyways I know Pierre does not want to give out his email or his phone number and I am sure Skype too, you can imagine how he would be besieged and he also works day job 60hr weeks too Luc said as well....
I think on his youtube comments section is best place to contact him, since he is in control there, it is his video and he has no pressure there and for example the  intense scrutiny he would get here....but still he is watching, so that is good and he wants us to know how it works too which is also good you can also imagine how difficult it would be to explain to everyone (at least 1000 wuestions to answer and half of people will not understand and have it backwards or whatever) I hope my drawing helped a little bit and saved him some time....
So anyways, I just read again your questions Erfinder......I think you might be a bit confused in what his description is - and like explained here the magic numbers correspond to the stator windings....the "NSNSNS" 6pole thing corresponds to the rotating field pulsoing....
Also don't worry if I get anymore info I will post it....you should review the comments in his youtube videos and see what he says when he replies to people to get some more info too.

Offline konehead

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #175 on: March 10, 2018, 09:33:54 AM »
Hi Erfinder
Just thought about it all again, and I am "pretty sure" the 6 poles Pierre talks about is not how the stators connect!
This is the pattern of the pulsed rotating field.....but I might be wrong about that!!

However,  because in video he says there is "six magnetic fields rotating" I will assume and I hope correctly the 6 poles refer to the NSNSNS pulsing and rotating field pattern pulsed INTO the stator windings....(not the stator windings themselves being "6 pole NSNSNS" - only that they are pulsed like that)
konehead

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #175 on: March 10, 2018, 09:33:54 AM »
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Offline pmgr

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #176 on: March 10, 2018, 09:50:36 AM »
Hi Erfinder
Just thought about it all again, and I am "pretty sure" the 6 poles Pierre talks about is not how the stators connect!
This is the pattern of the pulsed rotating field.....but I might be wrong about that!!

However,  because in video he says there is "six magnetic fields rotating" I will assume and I hope correctly the 6 poles refer to the NSNSNS pulsing and rotating field pattern pulsed INTO the stator windings....(not the stator windings themselves being "6 pole NSNSNS" - only that they are pulsed like that)
konehead
Konehead, you are correct. It's the drive sequence, not the connections. This is how I did the last set of simulations as well and they give exactly what Pierre says: 6 poles with SNSNSN orientation.


PmgR

Offline listener191

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #177 on: March 10, 2018, 09:53:16 AM »
Attached is a diagram showing the start point for NSNS operation.

Each of the 36 coils has a controlling transistor and ON/OFF relay.

There are two coil groups x3 North & x3 South each consisting of 6 coils. Each coil has a Polarity Reversal relay which is controlled by the additional transistor (37).

A N or S pole can move in sequence by turning on one of the 6 coils. When the last coil is reached the next set of 6 coils is then used but the coil group polarity is reversed to keep the same pole polarity (either N or S). 

L192

Offline listener191

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #178 on: March 10, 2018, 10:00:11 AM »
In this diagram I have marked the first 6 coils, to show the progression of switching.

L192

Offline konehead

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Re: 170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video
« Reply #179 on: March 10, 2018, 10:02:55 AM »
Hi Erfinder
Yes why only two pole fixed-rotor pickup winds? Three would be better...Pierre knows this, as my friend and ace engineer Gary Porter "Skipper by the sea" mentioned this to him in one of his youtube videos, in comments section, and Pierre replied saying yes that is correct three pole fixed rotor would create more power and Pierre says he is in process of improving everything and Pierre was also talking about making "flat-bar" shaped fixed-rotor too, instead of the round shaped existing fixed-rotor that he winds circular winds around....I think these comments form Pierre to Skipper is in part two video on youtube.

 

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