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Author Topic: Mechanical Lever to get pass sticky point  (Read 1679 times)

Offline rushi95

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Mechanical Lever to get pass sticky point
« on: February 05, 2018, 03:15:54 AM »
What is the issue with a mechanical lever to move stator magnets and get pass the sticky point?

something similar to (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bssBAb6EzM4&t=48s) V gate motor.

All my understanding supports in favour of V gate motor design. But, I am not sure why there are failed attempts to replicate. Can you help me in knowing what might be the possible issues with this idea. OR in general will a mechanical lever help in avoiding sticky point?

What I do hear it takes more mechanical energy than what can be produced in one revolution. I have no means to verify that. What are your thoughts on this?

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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Mechanical Lever to get pass sticky point
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2018, 10:11:11 AM »
What is the issue with a mechanical lever to move stator magnets and get pass the sticky point?

something similar to (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bssBAb6EzM4&t=48s) V gate motor.

All my understanding supports in favour of V gate motor design. But, I am not sure why there are failed attempts to replicate. Can you help me in knowing what might be the possible issues with this idea. OR in general will a mechanical lever help in avoiding sticky point?

What I do hear it takes more mechanical energy than what can be produced in one revolution. I have no means to verify that. What are your thoughts on this?


A lever is doing movement as any other movements. When you avoid the sticky spot, you need some input force. And with that force you need desplacement to actually move the object away from the sticky spot.
Now, the sticky spot is the reason why magnets attract eachother. This force is what we want in a magnet motor, but when the driving forces increase, the closer the magnets are. At some point, the force is not longer perpendicular but purely radial. A radial force just wants to pull the rotor off the hub and not contribute to rotational motion. This is where the sticky spot is.


By using a mechanism to avoid the sticky spot, at the same time you remove the force which drives the rotation, because that mechanism is driven by the same closed system.


You need a separate mechanism that is not connected to the rotor, but that means you have to apply energy to that mechanism.


The V-gate is nothing different from lettig two magnets approach eachother. The magnetic field at the end of the track is where the field is strongest, working perpendicular to the wanted direction. Pass that point you still have a strong local magnetic field that wants to pull the moving object in reverse. Theerfor V-gates can't work.


Apologies for typing errors. My cellphone have very small "keys" and my figer is large :-)


Br. Vidar
« Last Edit: February 07, 2018, 01:39:34 PM by Low-Q »

Offline Belfior

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Re: Mechanical Lever to get pass sticky point
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2018, 11:30:19 AM »
V-gates can totally work. Just have a track between the 2 strips of magnets and a hole in the end to the track. Before a ball gets to the end of the track it drops through the hole. Under the hole is another V-gate.

You tell me how this cannot work? I think lack of imagination and intuition is the only thing that does not work.


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Re: Mechanical Lever to get pass sticky point
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2018, 11:30:19 AM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Mechanical Lever to get pass sticky point
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2018, 01:21:09 PM »
V-gates can totally work. Just have a track between the 2 strips of magnets and a hole in the end to the track. Before a ball gets to the end of the track it drops through the hole. Under the hole is another V-gate.

You tell me how this cannot work? I think lack of imagination and intuition is the only thing that does not work.
You are right about the hole. The ball will be able to drop, but, that is becaus the initial position of the ball is inside attraction area. Do you know what happen if to put the ball too far away from the V-track input? It will be repelled. Yes, repelled - believe it or not. So when you place a ball at the very entrance of a V-track, you have already applied the energy required to enter the V-track. That is why the ball can continue along the track, and finally drop through that hole.


Second, the track must have an incline, then you have a SMOT. But the next V-track will repel the ball slightly before it finish the first track, AND the end of the first track will hold back the drop a little bit due to the strong magnetic field, so the ball cannot fall with 9.81m/s^2. The total magnetic gain is perfectly zero in a closed loop. Friction and eddy currents is two of the factors that prevents the ball to complete a cycle and accelerate.


Imagination and intuition does not help. Physics do things we do not want it to do, and therefor, you cannot force a device like this to work continously, or absolutely not accelerate, just by using imagination and intuition.


Quite frakly, nature does not care about our imaginations. It does what it is created to do. Conserve energy ;-)


Vidar

Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: Mechanical Lever to get pass sticky point
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2018, 02:19:04 PM »

If magnets are correctly arranged, it should be possible to jump the sticky spot.  See this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0KHZ53g678

Can somebody 'refine' it?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mechanical Lever to get pass sticky point
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2018, 02:19:04 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Mechanical Lever to get pass sticky point
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2018, 02:49:10 PM »
If magnets are correctly arranged, it should be possible to jump the sticky spot.  See this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0KHZ53g678

Can somebody 'refine' it?
This visio is fake. Busted many years ago. It loops approx every 1 second for a while before the video continue as normal when the magnet stops.


Vidar

Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: Mechanical Lever to get pass sticky point
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2018, 09:56:16 AM »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mechanical Lever to get pass sticky point
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2018, 09:56:16 AM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Mechanical Lever to get pass sticky point
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2018, 10:28:40 AM »
This one ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3GuD-Q4hts
I don't know what drives this. With no back emf this runs surprizingly smooth. Why is this motor located so close to the edge? Why doesn't it bounce around? Why not lift it up to prove nothing under the table runs it with magnetic coupling?


Vidar

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Mechanical Lever to get pass sticky point
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2018, 12:01:11 PM »
Using gravity to drive a magnetic assembly in this manner IS possible.
It, however, requires a lot of precision and an appropriate magnetic-gravitational
proportionality.


To understand this, you have to look at it in terms of vertical lift, vs
horizontal displacement.


When repulsion is primarily in the vertical domain, ‘lift’ occurs, as the magnetism
is counteracting against gravity.


When the repulsion is more horizontal, downward gravitational force can create a
horizontal translation.


The difference between these two actions is where the energy comes from.
How much energy?
In an ideal state, it is equal to the combined magnetic repulsion force -9.8m/s/s
In actuality, our designs operate at less than this value.


why?
Because in a vertical-lift scenario gravity subtracts from the magnetic repulsion.
In a horizontal translation, we have the full repulsion force.
gravity in the horizontal case pushes the magnet, which repels the rotor.


The test-bed i designed for adjusting the parameters of the Archer Quinn device
is a good tool for determining the magnetic repulsion vs gravity proportion.
Basically a vertical slide (rod/tube/linear bearing/etc) with one of the magnets
attached to the bottom.
The other magnet of the repelling pair is placed under it.
You can then adjust the two magnets by distance and add/subtract weight to the
magnet being lifted.
From this you can develop a mass-vs-distance scale for your magnet pair.
Every pair of magnets is slightly different, so if you require similar forces in your
design, you may need to test a lot of magnets and select the ones that are the closest


Two important things to reiterate


When the magnets do work against gravity, the repulsion should be mostly vertical


When gravity does work against the magnets, the repulsion should be mostly horizontal.


And a word of warning: use caution with this, because when you have the parameters
correct for it to run, using the difference between gravity and magnetism,
it will not run at a constant rpm, but continue to increase until it destroys itself.
Which is very dangerous, in fact, becomes increasingly dangerous the stronger you
construct the device.
It is best to start with low-strength materials, that will break apart with little force.
the slower it is spinning when it breaks, the less chance is seriously injuring yourself
or others, and causing damage to your home.






Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mechanical Lever to get pass sticky point
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2018, 12:01:11 PM »
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Offline Belfior

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Re: Mechanical Lever to get pass sticky point
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2018, 12:23:29 PM »


Imagination and intuition does not help. Physics do things we do not want it to do, and therefor, you cannot force a device like this to work continously, or absolutely not accelerate, just by using imagination and intuition.


Quite frakly, nature does not care about our imaginations. It does what it is created to do. Conserve energy ;-)


Vidar

I don't see any evidence, that nature would like to conserve energy. Nature wants to have things in equilibrium. If you disturb that, nature will go to extreme lengths to equalize that. Conservation of energy is just a property of energy. Energy conservation is used by free energy debunkers to "prove" that free energy does not exist. They want to steer the debate into an area where energy is created from nothing. In reality we are just trying to dip a bucket to an ocean. Nature will fill the hole that the bucket made.

What I mean with the use of intuition and imagination is that do not take anything for a "Natural Law" that some white dude wrote 200 years ago. We have moved from experimentation to theoretical physics and proving things just by solving mathematical equations. We can see how this is going towards total bullshit just because people can't admit that they might be wrong OR that their demi-god master jedi might have been wrong. Now we are adding Dark Mater AND the new addition Dark Energy into equations, because we can't explain what is happening otherwise. We are using virtual particles and "cosmological constants" and the reason is "I had to add that or it does n't make any sense".

I am not saying that Einstein was wrong in everything or that Newton was just crazy. What I'm saying is that we need to take few steps back every time we find out that our equations need a new virtual element or reality does not make sense. Science is turning into archaeology where professors hide new evidence or deny any new findings. The Sphinx is 4511y old and there is no water erosion! It is the tomb of Khufu!

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Mechanical Lever to get pass sticky point
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2018, 01:37:43 PM »

@ sm0key:
Gravity is a constant, and cannot provide help. Permanent magnetism cannot provide help. As long the devices we build is based on elementary physics, there cannot be any way anyone can calculate the precision required to make these things work - creating energy from nothing, because there are no prerequisites available for making this happen.




@ Belfior:
Equilibrium is what conservation is much about. Though, the sun is providing energy all the time, so this source is the only source we actually can harness through power plants of different sorts.
The sun has for a billion years, and in billions of years to come, worked/working towards equilibrium. As this happens, energy is released due to the nuclear potential energy that already exist in the hydrogen atoms. A small motor at 200 grams cannot crush atoms.


The thing is, by my perspective, is to harness potential energy which is just waiting for being released. As long we have potential energy in mass or in magnetism, we cannot harness these potentials without destroying the mass or weaken the magnets. Our physics is limited to the very elementary ones. We cannot make things work just because we cannot explain dark matter or other exotic properties of the universe. The 200 years old discoveries are still valid today - with remarkable precision.


Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mechanical Lever to get pass sticky point
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2018, 01:37:43 PM »
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Offline Belfior

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Re: Mechanical Lever to get pass sticky point
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2018, 02:19:02 PM »
"Equilibrium is what conservation is much about."

In a way yes. Nature can use a lot of energy to gain equilibrium, but since you can only transform energy that did not destroy any energy. It just changed form or potential. All we need to do is create unequilibrium and provide a path for nature to correct this.

"Though, the sun is providing energy all the time, so this source is the only source we actually can harness through power plants of different sorts."

Sure we can use the Sun, any other radiation from space or something that has potential already on this planet because of those radiations. Some experiments say that the magnetic field does not rotate with the Earth. We could just have 500m long coils on the ground to pick up electricity.

"The sun has for a billion years, and in billions of years to come, worked/working towards equilibrium. As this happens, energy is released due to the nuclear potential energy that already exist in the hydrogen atoms. A small motor at 200 grams cannot crush atoms."

I think splitting atoms is the last thing we should be doing. It is the worst thing that we have developed. I don't think Moray had a fission plant in his wooden box.

"The thing is, by my perspective, is to harness potential energy which is just waiting for being released. As long we have potential energy in mass or in magnetism, we cannot harness these potentials without destroying the mass or weaken the magnets. Our physics is limited to the very elementary ones. We cannot make things work just because we cannot explain dark matter or other exotic properties of the universe. The 200 years old discoveries are still valid today - with remarkable precision."

We also cannot make things work, if we just take theory for the truth. There are older discoveries that are still valid and younger that are just dead in the water. I have serious doubts about some "natural laws" that some men have come up with. I find that with nature it is always about circumstances and not so much that something is illegal. These artificial rules are just holding us back. You might not be able to push a rocket to light speed, but does that also mean that you cannot travel from A to B faster than light? There might be some way to do this, but we will never find it, because "it is illegal to go faster than light".

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Mechanical Lever to get pass sticky point
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2018, 05:32:47 AM »
@ LowQ


Gravity alone does not provide energy.
Nor does magnetism, by itself.


But the difference between the two can be made to perform work.
As can the difference between two magnetic forces.


Field symmetry is the wrong approach
A conservative field, by itself, is exactly that.


A difference in fields results in a vectored potential.
reverse the conditions and the potential is in the opposite direction.
this is the key.


For example, magnetism opposing a gravitational vector, increases
gravitational potential.
gravity opposing a magnetic vector increases magnetic potential.
A system that utilizes both of these functions, can constantly increase
it’s own kinetic energy.




 

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