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Author Topic: V Gate experiment using a Ring Magnet  (Read 2527 times)

Offline vineet_kiran

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V Gate experiment using a Ring Magnet
« on: January 30, 2018, 01:56:59 PM »

Video :

https://youtu.be/RCjekus9zLM

When magnetic field on the surface of a ring magnet is compressed using a small disc magnet with repelling pole,  the steel plate fixed on the surface of ring magnet is attracted towards compressed magnetic field area.  If oscillations of compression by disc magnet is synchronized with ring magnet movement, then the magnet rotates continuously. 

If you conduct the experiment,  you will see that,  at higher speeds, the force required to move the disc magnet becomes very less.  if this force is less than the force with which the steel plate is pulled towards compressed magnetic field area,  then it will lead to overunity.  It is very difficult to synchronize the movement of disc magnet with rotation of ring magnet by hand because it attains high speed if field is fully compressed.   If it is mechanized like a V Gate,  then the motion of ring magnet may become perpetual.
 

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Offline Belfior

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Re: V Gate experiment using a Ring Magnet
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2018, 12:01:13 AM »
Hmm what happens if there is a steel plate on top of the ring magnet? Does it still work?

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: V Gate experiment using a Ring Magnet
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2018, 02:00:33 AM »
If it touches twice it makes 2 compressed field junctions


You can also use a 2nd smaller magnet instead of steel


Or just 2 magnets opposite the bearing instead of ring


Or 8 in a circle and a small lever w mag


Or.... any field topology other than horizontal



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Re: V Gate experiment using a Ring Magnet
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2018, 02:00:33 AM »
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Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: V Gate experiment using a Ring Magnet
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2018, 03:28:25 AM »
Hmm what happens if there is a steel plate on top of the ring magnet? Does it still work?

https://youtu.be/M6FyfU2C724

When a steel plate is placed on ring magnet,  it absorbs the flux of ring magnet hence we will not get strong compressed field and it will not work.

As smoky2 said if two small magnets are placed on either side of bearing,  it becomes a case of normal repulsion. Whatever force is supplied by hand is converted to rotation of the wheel.

The idea of using ring magnet is, both compressed field and steel plate remain on the wheel itself and steel plate is attracted towards compressed field caused by two magnets,  i.e,  the ring magnet and the magnet in hand whereas we have to move only the magnet in hand.  Hence there is a chance of steel plate being attracted to compressed field with twice the force required to move the magnet in hand for compression which will lead to overunity.

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: V Gate experiment using a Ring Magnet
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2018, 02:47:37 PM »
If placed on a mechanical lever, two things happen


1) you remove the unknown variable of "hand"


And 2) the drive magnet becomes fixed along a set path.
          which eliminates circumferential oscillations of the drive magnet
          providing more rotational torque.


Overunity is not observed by hand, because you spend more energy trying
to hold the magnet still, than it takes to rotate the wheel.


You have to think in terms of Howard Johnson magnetics
As the magnet approaches the compression field it attracts
As it leaves it pushes the magnet back up


With the large piece of steel, the magnet can be attracted to the steel
which may cause problems, but placement and timing can dodge that situation


The function is in the field compression
Or change in flux over distance


If you think in terms of "field lines", there are more lines of flux in the compressed
part of the field, than there are in the relaxed (expanded) part of the field.


Magnets are always attracted to the point of lowest magnetic potential.
That is the most "lines of flux" per area, over the shortest distance.


They are repelled, to the point of greatest magnetic potential.
That is the least "lines of flux" per area, over the greatest (effective) distance.


Attract in, repel out.
Essential function of a magnetic gate.


The magnetic portion is not constrained by thermodynamics.
There is no time in the equation.
Energy includes time.


The mechanical portion is always entropic.
This is where people fail.
In a direct "OU" approach, the system should be designed such that
Entropy < Negentropy


Magnetic translational force over distance, must be greater than frictional losses
and other resistances in the system. (including undesirable magnetic effects)


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Re: V Gate experiment using a Ring Magnet
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2018, 02:47:37 PM »
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Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: V Gate experiment using a Ring Magnet
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2018, 03:08:02 PM »

Attract in, repel out.
Essential function of a magnetic gate.


You are very correct.  I am trying it that way.  In any magnet track,  with whatever force the magnets pull in while approaching, with same force they pull back while leaving,  which makes magnetic field conservative.  Hence if that 'pull back' force is eliminated (repelled out),  overunity is achieved.  But unfortunately it is not so easy to achieve it.  Have to try my luck.

Offline forest

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Re: V Gate experiment using a Ring Magnet
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2018, 01:06:39 PM »
You have to construct something mechanical which use part of kinetic energy of v-gate to mechanically push magnet outside the attraction force.

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Re: V Gate experiment using a Ring Magnet
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2018, 01:06:39 PM »
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Offline Belfior

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Re: V Gate experiment using a Ring Magnet
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2018, 02:48:06 PM »
I am building a magnet motor that is kind of a V-gate, but circular. O-gate :)

I figured that with mechanical devices you always got friction, gravity and air to fight against, so what you need to always do it accelerate. So I have a rotor being built that has magnets on it in a yin yang shape. Magnet on stator is N towards the rotor cylinder and rotor magnets are also facing N towards the stator magnet. Then you get cogging when the rotor has turned half a turn, because the closest N magnet is coming up on the next half turn. I am planning to use an electromagnet here to overcome this.

S-Neodymium stator magnet-N -> electromagnet -> N-rotormagnet-S

So the stator magnet has the electromagnet magnetized 99% of the time so that it has N facing the rotor.

I will use another disc on the axle that has coils and magnet to generate electricity. I am going to control the timing with reed switches so, that when the next half turn N pole is approaching my stator N I will blast the electromagnet with all the electricity I gained from the collecting disc&coils. Electromagnet will turn to S and pull the closest N pole on top of it. Then the current is cut off and the stator magnet N will immediately re-gauge the electromagnet as N. This will hopefully use the rotor momentum to push the wheel on the next half turn and so on and so on.

I have built some magnetic bearings, so the whole shaft&discs are floating freely.

If I get this rotating I have proofed that the Universe does allow us to take electricity from the ambient. There are no batteries, which always kinda makes you wonder if a device is OU or not.

If this works the acceleration will stop at some RPM. The next step is to use the Lorentz force the gain more speed. There a lot of fields so I might be able to place wires so, that Lorentz helps with the rotation.

People always say that "Lentz this and Lentz that", but why use looped coils? If I can light up LEDs with open ended coils there has to be something flowing in open ended cables.

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: V Gate experiment using a Ring Magnet
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2018, 04:39:17 PM »
You are very correct.  I am trying it that way.  In any magnet track,  with whatever force the magnets pull in while approaching, with same force they pull back while leaving,  which makes magnetic field conservative.  Hence if that 'pull back' force is eliminated (repelled out),  overunity is achieved.  But unfortunately it is not so easy to achieve it.  Have to try my luck.


Field conservation is a timeless-vectored property.
With a symmetrical field, the force is conservative over time.
Because the changes in the field over distance are symmetrical.


When field compression is employed, this factor takes on a different
form.
The change in field over distance can be interacted with via momentum.
Moving through the field adds a time dimension outside of the field.
It’s hard to think about time as being a dimensional aspect of our reality
But in magnetism, it presents itself in a testable way.


Time can be shown to exist completely separate, within a magnetic field.
Field assymetry can direct chronological translation in the 3 physical dimensions.


In discretely controlled experiments, it is demonstrated that inertial forces exist
separate from magnetic force (repulsion or attraction).
Even when the magnetic force has complete gravitational control over an object.


Knowing this, we must consider inertia and momentum, even in cyclical/vibratory states.
As a separate force function, that carries through in recombination calculations.


This is demonstrated in a linear gate by comparison of rolling and fixed active components.
a rolling rotor carries rotational momentum components not present in the fixed-position rotor.
even when translational velocity is the same, the rolling member has different translational energy.
gravitational force plays a large part in that interaction as well.


there is another function that appears mathematically at a point beyond maximum compression.
where fluxpolarity  becomes a negative number ^4 stronger than the compressed field.
HJ called this “flipping” the magnets.
Essentially a highly-compressed N pole becomes a S pole (^4) momentarily.
it is an internal function of the magnet, and reverts as soon as compression decreases.
While the specific aspects of this technology are classified, I am allowed to discuss the publicly
known mathematical theory that underlies it.
But I think HJ does a better job, so i’ll refer you to the inventor if you want to learn that.
Most of the things we play with do not compress the field to this extent.
But I know a few of you are getting into 3-d printed magnets and custom field engineering
Which is more than capable of performing this.






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Re: V Gate experiment using a Ring Magnet
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2018, 04:39:17 PM »
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Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: V Gate experiment using a Ring Magnet
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2018, 05:54:41 AM »

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: V Gate experiment using a Ring Magnet
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2018, 06:27:04 AM »
https://youtu.be/EYn71sRCPto


Looks interesting
each ramp has its own magnet
Which could lead to independent drive functions


The orientation of the stator mags leads to some ?’s

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Re: V Gate experiment using a Ring Magnet
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2018, 06:27:04 AM »
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Offline MagnaProp

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Re: V Gate experiment using a Ring Magnet
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2018, 06:39:12 AM »
That particular video looks like it has a "jump" in it where the video may be looped to make it look like it's continually running.

The LED tells me two possible things. Electricity is involved that may be generated by the device or being supplied to the device to keep it spinning.

Science says it's not possible so that doesn't go well in its favor.

Having said all of that, I tried a V-gate for a little bit. Nothing fancy just a small strip on the floor with a row of magnets with washers on the ends so it could roll on the floor. I recall the washer part rolling over the gate and exiting the gate due to how heavy it was. I turned the gate 180 degrees and had the same result so it didn't appear to be on much of a slope if any. While I doubt the video one works, if I was to try building something similar, I would do so such that the outer diameter of the device is weighted light a flywheel. Still most likely would not work but that's the direction I would start in if I tried the concept again. To many other projects going at the moment and I determined that this method would not produce enough power for my spacecrafts.

Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: V Gate experiment using a Ring Magnet
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2018, 05:23:41 AM »
Video :

https://youtu.be/3Tb8l7tBcn0

I added one more repelling magnet on the other side of steel plate so that the plate will not be pulled back after crossing the top oscillating magnet.  Don't know whether the torque gained by ring magnet is enough to lift the oscillating magnet before it drops by the side of additional repelling magnet.

Offline Belfior

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Re: V Gate experiment using a Ring Magnet
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2018, 02:57:04 PM »
I think if you use one rotor that has magnets from the outer surface towards the center, you get accelerating movement. When you go full circle there is the cogging point, where you need to get over the first magnet again. I think the rotor works as a flywheel and it overcomes the cogging maybe even without the electromagnet. Magnet opposes magnet, but the flywheel rotor adds a force to overcome the cogging

Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: V Gate experiment using a Ring Magnet
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2018, 04:15:31 AM »
I think if you use one rotor that has magnets from the outer surface towards the center, you get accelerating movement. When you go full circle there is the cogging point, where you need to get over the first magnet again. I think the rotor works as a flywheel and it overcomes the cogging maybe even without the electromagnet. Magnet opposes magnet, but the flywheel rotor adds a force to overcome the cogging
Whatever may be the arrangement of magnets,  unless 'ON'  and 'OFF'  of the flux is created with respect to the rotor,  it is not possible to generate energy.  I am trying to find other methods of creating 'ON' and 'OFF'  of the magnetic flux.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 06:25:25 AM by vineet_kiran »

 

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