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Author Topic: DESTROYING Energy  (Read 8369 times)

Offline EHT

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DESTROYING Energy
« on: January 28, 2018, 09:06:03 PM »
I want to share with you all something that has me very excited.

After several decades of “overunity” research, replicating and playing with quite a few designs with no real success to show for it, I finally decided that I had to change my thinking. SO I looked at the other part of the Energy Conservation law - the part that says ‘energy cannot be destroyed’.

It seemed at first glance that it would be just as difficult to create a  device that destroys energy as it is to create one that generates it however, I believe I have come up with a system that effectively “destroys” energy.

Now, I am well aware that such a system is nowhere near as useful as one that generates energy, but its existence disproves at least half of the conservation law - and if THAT is true, then this casts equal doubt on the other part of the law. In determining what is going on in this system, I have asked a number of self-proclaimed physicists in various forums and can get no satisfactory answer. 
I believe this is mainly due to the fact that these guys have absolutely NO interest or even belief in the possibility of free energy and are so keen to poo-poo any inquiries along these lines that the only thing they can do is try to "fit" what I show in my drawings to what they believe they KNOW.

YOU guys, on the other hand, I believe will look at this whole thing with much more interest and willingness to discover what is actually going on.
I can honestly say that what I am about to show you is THE most exciting thing I have ever come across in the whole time I have been playing with this stuff.

I apologise if this all seems really long-winded, but I want to make sure I explain this properly so you cal get into the "spirit" of what I am talking about here.

First, a little background:

I invite you to consider a hypothetical “black box” that accepts an electrical energy input. For the purposes of illustration, lets say it is the size of a shoebox and consumes 500W at 250Vac 50Hz.
Now, regardless of what type of circuitry or mechanism is inside the box, any electrical input to the box must, under the current energy law, be converted into some other form of energy.
If the box were to contain a resistor, then the input energy will be converted to heat. If a transmitter circuit, then the output will be some form of EM. If an LED, then light and heat. If some audio circuit, then sound... and so on.

Classical theory would dictate that it is impossible to put anything in the black box that does NOT transform the input energy into some other type of energy which could be detected and measured. That is to say, the box cannot consume energy without showing some evidence of its consumption. If energy is input, then SOME change in the energy state of the box must occur if the law holds good.

Yet, the device/system I outline below seems to accomplish this.

It can accept energy input (either electrical or mechanical) and “dissipate” it with no evidence of the work being done. It does not emit any kind of measurable energy - neither heat, sound, light, EM of any frequency or any other type of radiation and yet can, depending on its size, be constructed so as to effectively consume any required amount of energy - and give nothing in return.

Now, I know some of you will be thinking that this would have to be the most USELESS device ever conceived - and from a practical standpoint, it IS - but the reason I am excited about it is because somewhere in my mind is this thought that SOMEHOW, the operation of this contraption could be reversed so as to generate energy out of "nothing" in the opposite way that it can make energy disappear INTO nothing.

I am sure many of you have had the experience of holding of a spinning bicycle wheel by the axle in both hands and feeling the effect of its gyroscopic force when it is spinning. When you try to twist the axis around, the flywheel reacts by pushing at right angles to the force applied. BUT, if while you are trying to twist it around, constrain it to stay vertical, you can easily feel that the spinning resists your efforts and it FEELS like you need quite a bit of force to change the axis of orientation.

Now please see the attached picture (fw.jpg).
A flywheel is mounted so it can spin freely. Lets just say for the moment it is a massive flywheel, spun up to high RPM and with quality bearings that allow it to spin for quite a long time.

Now, the whole thing - the wheel and its mounting - is further mounted on a horizontal turntable. This allows the axis of the wheel to be rotated anywhere in the XY plane (that is, ABOUT the Z-axis).

We set the wheels axis so that it is pointing North-South and we spin it up.

On the turntable is a handle so we can manually rotate it. If we try to do so, we find that it takes a lot of force to change the orientation of the wheel, especially if it is spinning fast. But with enough force, we CAN, after a time, change the axis so that the axis of the wheel is now aligned East-West. That is after 90 degrees of rotation.

If we go another 90 degrees, the axis is now South-North. That is, we have effectively REVERSED the direction in which the wheel is spinning or, to put it another way, we have reversed the direction component of the wheels angular momentum.

Lets go another 180 degrees. Now, the wheel is now spinning in exactly the same direction as it was when we started.
We have applied force over that full 360 degrees and as we all know, force multiplied by distance = energy. BUT THERE IS NO CHANGE IN THE SYSTEM. The rpm of the wheel does not change as a result of the twisting, nor is there ANY other evidence of that energy having been input to the system (!)

It doesn't take much to imagine that if we now use a motor to effect the rotation of the turntable, that motor can consume power doing the work to rotate the turntable - and the whole kaboodle will sit there, rotating away, consuming energy - AND NOT GETTING HOT OR IN ANY OTHER WAY SHOWING EVIDENCE OF THAT ENERGY HAVING BEEN EXPENDED.

I have been through this in my mind countless times and I just CANNOT come up with an explanation of WHERE the energy is going (!) This system seems to just gobble up energy and give back ZIP.
The next thing I am going to do is to knock up a prototype so I can demonstrate the thing for real. Luckily, my dear old Dad has a lovely workshop with a lathe and all the gear I could possibly need.
I have played with flywheels enough to KNOW that it will do in practice exactly what I have outlined - and I am sure that if YOU think about it, you will also agree that it must.

So if energy can be "destroyed" ie made to disappear without leaving a trace, then we can say for sure that we have a violation of the energy conservation law - at least one half of it. And if THAT is the case, then the other part of that law about "creating" energy is liable to be also just as breakable.

Right now, I cannot think of a way to reverse the operation of this thing to GENERATE energy, but I believe in my heart that proving energy can be destroyed IS getting us one step closer to our "Holy Grail".
And I gotta tell you all, I can't think of anything more exciting than to have a contraption on my bench that sits there and actually generates energy. I can only imagine you guys share this sentiment.

I look forward to your thoughts!

ps. I am just now in the process of making a 3D model video of this so it can be seen more clearly exactly what I am describing. I will post it as soon as I have finished it.







Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

DESTROYING Energy
« on: January 28, 2018, 09:06:03 PM »

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: DESTROYING Energy
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2018, 09:36:08 PM »
If I sit here and push on an immovable wall with all of my force
or place a linear motor against an immovable wall and let it run
is not energy being ‘consumed’?


let’s look at a pendulum, each swing of a pendulum, gravity is placing a force
onto the shaft.
This force is moving.
Force over distance
Is energy consumed in the shaft of a pendulum?
Does the shaft heat up while it’s swinging?


What type of “evidence” are we looking for of the energy consumption?


Science does not define energy.
Science only defines the use of energy, or the forms it may take on.
But does “energy” even exist?
or are we just manifesting aspects of the universe, by our actions?


What is it, exactly, that we are trying to create or destroy?
and if it cannot be created or destroyed, then it is ever present.
if it is ever present, it’s infinite existence is manifest everywhere.
all we need to do is convert it from universe.


The same way we convert it back to universe.


Or we could look at energy as a function of force.
Wherever there is force, there is a potential for energy to occur.
in the same way that wherever there is force, there is a potential for
energy to stop occurring.


does force create or destroy energy?
Or does force manifest energy from universe?
or send it back from whence it came?


when we have multiple forces, do they create or destroy energy between them?
Or do they manifest energy from universe where there was first only force?


Force does not become energy until we allow it to move
Motion does not become energy until we allow it to exert force.


What is energy?


Energy is nothing, and everything is energy.
If everything is nothing, do we even need to create or destroy it?


Energy comes from nothing, and it comes from everything.
It goes back to nothing, and back to everything.


What is the energy constant derived from the combination of thermodynamic theory
and quantum mechanics?
How does this apply to universe?
How does this apply to our definition of energy?


how do I make my head stop spinning??

Offline EHT

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Re: DESTROYING Energy
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2018, 09:57:20 PM »
"If I sit here and push on an immovable wall with all of my force or place a linear motor against an immovable wall and let it run is not energy being ‘consumed’?"

Yes, it is, but in these cases, it will be simply transformed into HEAT.


"let’s look at a pendulum, each swing of a pendulum, gravity is placing a force onto the shaft. This force is moving. Force over distance. Is energy consumed in the shaft of a pendulum?
Does the shaft heat up while it’s swinging?"

The energy put into the initial swing is eventually used up in countering air resistance - actually heating the air it moves through by a miniscule amount.

"What type of “evidence” are we looking for of the energy consumption?"

SOME kind of OUTPUT, whether it be EM, sound, light, radiation, change of location, change of velocity, change in temperature... change in SOMETHING

"What is it, exactly, that we are trying to create or destroy? and if it cannot be created or destroyed, then it is ever present. if it is ever present, it’s infinite existence is manifest everywhere.
all we need to do is convert it from universe.
"
Yes, energy is present everywhere, all around us. But in the vast majority of cases, it takes more energy to extract that energy than what we get back. Conquering that is wha the whole overunity thing is all about.

"What is energy?

I believe that energy represents the capacity to induce CHANGE. Whether that change be in temperature, electric field, magnetic field, charge, voltage, location, velocity, brightness etc etc
Proof of this is in the facts that:
Where there is energy, there is change
Where there is change, there is energy.
Where there is no energy, there is no change.
Where there is no change, there is no energy.

In the vast majority of devices considered here on this forum, we are trying to use a bit of energy to extract MORE energy. Since no-one has come forward to claim the Overunity Prize, I feel it safe to say that no-one has come up with a replicable working device yet. Since I can't seem to do that either, I am just simply concentrating on doing the exact opposite for now ;-)


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: DESTROYING Energy
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2018, 09:57:20 PM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: DESTROYING Energy
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2018, 11:53:29 PM »
With the pendulum, I was not talking about the gravitational potential energy of the bob.
The equations handle this very well.
But the stress-force on the shaft is identified, then ignored.
This force is moving, therefore the energy cannot be 0.

Something of this here
https://cse.wwu.edu/files/Centripetal%20Force%20of%20a%20Pendulum%20Demonstration.pdf


But all the “energy” is accounted for in the gravitational potential equations of the bob.
The changing force within the shaft, moving over a distance, represents an additional quotient.
The magnitude changes with the angle, but at no point is the force negative.


The shaft Must be heating up, to some degree, in accordance to the equations.
As the result of change in stress along the length of the material.
Stress/strain analysis identifies the exact quantity.
There’s a reason we do not include this in the pendulum equations.
If I use a material with high stress/strain coefficients, that causes more heating in the shaft,
how does this affect the oscillations?


again, I ask. Does the pendulum create energy?
Or convert it from universe?




When I push on a wall, my body heats up exactly the same as if I lift something
 with the same force.
This includes the heat generated at the palm-to-object interface.
the heat generated on the wall side of the interface, combined with increase in body heat,
does not account for the energy that I expend. Now of course, there is EM in our muscles,
EM in our brains, and intercellular activities that consume exponentially more energy
than just the pushing, and there is an associated consumption of calories.


However


Even the thoughts we perform discussing this, consume more energy than accounted for
by our caloric intake.
Do our brains create energy?


Potential for change, that is a good perspective to hold.
Everything is always in a state of change.
Therefore, everything has this potential.


Even where there is “nothing”, things change. Energy and particles appear from “nothing”.
This creates a potential for change with respect to anything (or the nothing) nearby.
Does the universe create energy?


The most commonly accepted theory states that energy created the universe.
Black hole theory states that the process is reversible.








Offline gravityblock

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Re: DESTROYING Energy
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2018, 04:39:24 AM »
                     Object                                    K    Mass   Diameter   Velocity   Energy, J
A) bicycle wheel @ 20 km/h                       1    1 kg     700 mm       150 rpm     15 J
B) bicycle wheel, double speed (40 km/h)    1    1 kg     700 mm       300 rpm     60 J
C) bicycle wheel, double mass (20 km/h)     1    2 kg     700 mm       150 rpm     30 J

Compare A) and B), then you will notice doubling the speed will quadruple the energy stored in joules.   Compare A) and C), then you will notice doubling the mass only doubles the energy stored in joules.

If we transferred 30 J in C),  to a bicycle wheel @ 20 km/h with half the mass, so the bicycle wheel is similar to A), then the bicycle wheel should have 30 J), because we can't destroy energy.   This will give us D).

D) bicycle wheel @ 20 km/h                    1    1 kg     700 mm       150 rpm     30 J

Now compare A) and D).  is this correct?  D) has twice the Joules as A), so D) should have twice the RPM), but according to the mathematics, A) and D) should match.  If we make them match, then we will destroy half of our energy stored.  How can this be possible if we can't destroy energy?  So, we'll double the RPM and the correct answer should be E).

E) bicycle wheel @ 20 km/h                    1    1 kg     700 mm       300 rpm     30 J

E) and B) should match, but B) has twice as much Joules as E) and the wheel we transferred the energy to, should also have 60 J if it is running at 300 RPM.  How can this be possible, since we can't create energy.

This is what the above suggests.  If we can't destroy energy, then energy must be created.  If we can't create energy, then energy must be destroyed.  The correct answer in our example is F).  We created energy in our example.  If we transferred F to a bicycle wheel @ 20 km/h with double the mass, then we will destroy energy and will have G), which is what we originally started with in our example.

F) bicycle wheel @ 20 km/h                    1    1 kg     700 mm       300 rpm     60 J
G) bicycle wheel, double mass @ 20 km/h    1    2 kg     700 mm       150 rpm     30 J

So, we transferred the energy stored from a larger mass into a smaller mass and created energy.  Then we transferred the energy from the smaller mass with the additional energy that was created from the previous transfer to a larger mass and destroy the energy we previously created. 

The end result is energy can either be created or destroyed in an open system, but in a closed system, then energy is both created and destroyed and it appears to have only changed from one form of energy into another form of energy.  In other-words, the so-called law that states "energy can't be created nor destroyed" is flawed, inaccurate, incomplete and just wrong.

Gravock

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: DESTROYING Energy
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2018, 04:39:24 AM »
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Offline Temporal Visitor

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Re: DESTROYING Energy
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2018, 03:06:04 PM »
......

E) and B) should match, but B) has twice as much Joules as E) and the wheel we transferred the energy to, should also have 60 J if it is running at 300 RPM.  How can this be possible, since we can't create energy.

How? By the Intelligent Design used by The Creator of nature; God:  that so many reject, that's one simple explanation of how IT IS POSSIBLE.

How? By the naturally occurring Kinetic energy of Matter in motion that NO MAN or beast can prevent or inhibit when he does any WORK within the nature of Intelligent Design.

Either of which means we don't NEED to have an ability to "Create" but we do NEED to have the WILL to, and do the WORK required by DESIGN to intelligently design "our" filthy rags to get access to it. It is like everything here; PROVIDED for the NEEDS of all those who will do the WORK.
E=mc^2 VIA 1/2mv^2

Brings to mind: "Go Greyhound and leave the driving to us." - Creating energy is best left to the Creator, he's quite good at it and not in it for the $. (Humorously after all, unlike us he's not in "Dire straights: "money for nothing and chicks for free") https://youtu.be/lAD6Obi7Cag?t=56


This is what the above suggests.  If we can't destroy energy, then energy must be created.  If we can't create energy, then energy must be destroyed.  The correct answer in our example is F).  We created energy in our example.  If we transferred F to a bicycle wheel @ 20 km/h with double the mass, then we will destroy energy and will have G), which is what we originally started with in our example.

F) bicycle wheel @ 20 km/h                    1    1 kg     700 mm       300 rpm     60 J
G) bicycle wheel, double mass @ 20 km/h    1    2 kg     700 mm       150 rpm     30 J

So, we transferred the energy stored from a larger mass into a smaller mass and created energy.  Then we transferred the energy from the smaller mass with the additional energy that was created from the previous transfer to a larger mass and destroy the energy we previously created. 

The end result is energy can either be created or destroyed in an open system, but in a closed system, then energy is both created and destroyed and it appears to have only changed from one form of energy into another form of energy.  In other-words, the so-called law that states "energy can't be created nor destroyed" is flawed, inaccurate, incomplete and just wrong.

Gravock

There is a great example of "uncommon sense".
"The Law" is just the opinion of men that have not done THE REQUIRED WORK.

It can be fun, when we try. But who is going to do the WORK for those who won't?

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: DESTROYING Energy
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2018, 07:41:38 PM »
Evidently there are plenty of people with little sense but lots of money.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: DESTROYING Energy
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2018, 07:41:38 PM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: DESTROYING Energy
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2018, 09:02:35 PM »
123.456789 x .1225 = 15.123456789 (15 J)




493.82716 x .1225 = 60.493827 (60 J)


Yeah..... checks out

Offline gravityblock

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Re: DESTROYING Energy
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2018, 12:33:45 AM »
How? By the Intelligent Design used by The Creator of nature; God:  that so many reject, that's one simple explanation of how IT IS POSSIBLE.

How? By the naturally occurring Kinetic energy of Matter in motion that NO MAN or beast can prevent or inhibit when he does any WORK within the nature of Intelligent Design.

Either of which means we don't NEED to have an ability to "Create" but we do NEED to have the WILL to, and do the WORK required by DESIGN to intelligently design "our" filthy rags to get access to it. It is like everything here; PROVIDED for the NEEDS of all those who will do the WORK.
E=mc^2 VIA 1/2mv^2

Brings to mind: "Go Greyhound and leave the driving to us." - Creating energy is best left to the Creator, he's quite good at it and not in it for the $. (Humorously after all, unlike us he's not in "Dire straights: "money for nothing and chicks for free") https://youtu.be/lAD6Obi7Cag?t=56

There is a great example of "uncommon sense".
"The Law" is just the opinion of men that have not done THE REQUIRED WORK.

It can be fun, when we try. But who is going to do the WORK for those who won't?

Good post, and I totally agree with you.   Scientism, "a science falsely so called",  has unwisely taken The Creator of nature (God) out of the equation.

Gravock

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: DESTROYING Energy
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2018, 12:33:45 AM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: DESTROYING Energy
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2018, 01:44:44 AM »
So we build a “god trap” to capture nature’s infinite energy machine

Offline Cherryman

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Re: DESTROYING Energy
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2018, 02:12:38 AM »
Well, if we bring God in.. we might as well bring the ancient Sumerians in.
If you are open for this..  You can learn a lot.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh8VJ-5a3uI&list=PLf2_N_uEdfWbd9wXHp5nOmWskwKPwiSFn

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: DESTROYING Energy
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2018, 02:12:38 AM »
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Offline sbridal

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Re: DESTROYING Energy
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2018, 02:20:03 AM »
I'm a long time lurker, and respect the opinion of a lot of the posters here.
I can't resist the urge to ask about wind turbines. There are more and more being erected where I live.
If Newton's 2nd law is correct, will the wind not blow somewhere else, if turbines are creating power or electricity?
Can wind turbines cause change in the weather?
Thanks in advance
SB

Offline Cherryman

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Re: DESTROYING Energy
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2018, 02:46:58 AM »
I'm a long time lurker, and respect the opinion of a lot of the posters here.
I can't resist the urge to ask about wind turbines. There are more and more being erected where I live.
If Newton's 2nd law is correct, will the wind not blow somewhere else, if turbines are creating power or electricity?
Can wind turbines cause change in the weather?
Thanks in advance
SB


In short: Yes it does.


A little longer:  It's all about scale.


A wind turbine changes the (micro) climate around that object.
But if you take the the butterfly theorie ( a butterfly flapping it's wings in Brazil can cause a hurricane in the Caribbean, for example ) then every object moving or non-moving influences the micro and macro climate in a way.  But how much? And to what effect?   A large tree does the same..  but now it's called nature..  Cut down that tree and you create a different micro climate on that spot..  and somewhere on the world.


So yes it does, it is up to you to decide if that influence makes a difference...


( Little note, i'm against large commercial wind turbine parks, it's just a consolidation of the same power distribution (pay) system. I believe in every home should have it's own power generation)

Offline sbridal

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Re: DESTROYING Energy
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2018, 03:09:16 AM »
Thanks for the quick reply Cherryman.
Nice analogy with the micro climate and the tree, but does the tree transfer wind power elsewhere or just re-direct the wind?
We have over 500 turbines generating 2 to 5 MW each, within a 400 square mile grid.
There is a a lot of power being created from the wind. I wonder what the trade off is.
Thanks again.

Offline Temporal Visitor

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Re: DESTROYING Energy
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2018, 03:08:09 PM »
Evidently there are plenty of people with little sense but lots of money.

Oh my aren't you the clever one with words written in true ignorance. https://youtu.be/qeMFqkcPYcg?t=7

Not everyone is looking for the same thing in their time here.

Any true science/research/learning takes money, time, effort.
A truly scientific mind seeks to observe/learn that which they honestly admit they do not have knowledge of.

Independent research yields individual observations and individual results.

"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Respond to this observation: Without Matter in motion there can be no life.

Now please tell everyone what FORCE and SOURCE OF POWER is keeping you among the living on this side of the grass, and don't be rash.

 

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