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Author Topic: inertial propulsion with gyroscope  (Read 21833 times)

Offline telecom

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #180 on: April 28, 2018, 03:56:05 AM »
Interesting.
So the heavy thing can become light?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #180 on: April 28, 2018, 03:56:05 AM »

Offline conradelektro

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #181 on: April 28, 2018, 09:59:40 PM »
@Laurent: I have my first prototype nearly finished. The Chinese Stepper Motor Drivers work very well, up to 20.000 individually triggered steps per second are theoretically possible.

I also had other things to do.

Will have time to watch your video on Monday.

Greetings, Conrad

Offline conradelektro

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #182 on: April 30, 2018, 01:58:19 PM »
I go slowly forward too, but i make further experiments trying to isolate the property of those things

https://youtu.be/qyqyX7jgjZU

As Laurent explains in his latest video, and as Harvey Fiala writes in his two patent applications, the rotational speed of the arm carrying the gyroscope in a circle and the rotational speed of the gyroscope have to be in a certain relationship. Hopefully there is a range of rotational speed within which the thing can exhibit its "space drive property" (or whatever there is). First inconclusive tests by myself have shown that nothing is straight forward with this strange machine.

My personal conclusion:

- One needs two strong stepper motors which can turn the two arms carrying the gyroscope at variable speeds, and the top speed has to be pretty fast. Therefore two stepper motor drivers are needed which allow to control individual steps at high speed (or better said at a high frequency, at least 2000 steps per second, better 4000). E.g. two stepper motor drivers like that https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B06XSD5XPR and two stepper motors like that https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B072LVXVKW (or even stronger, depending on the weight of the gyroscopes mounted on the arms).

- One needs a microcontroller to control the two stepper motors. E. g, an Arduino Uno https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B008GRTSV6

- The variable rotational speed of the arms carrying the gyroscopes also needs a mathematical algorithm which produces the variable delays between stepper motor steps, e.g. a sinus like curve.

- One must be able to set the speed of each gyroscope. Fortunately not at constantly varying speeds, therefore a pulse width modulated speed control for each gyroscope is enough which allows to search for a suitable rotational speed of the gyroscope (in relation to the rotational speed of the arm carrying the gyroscope). E.g. two speed controls like that https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07284TL3R

- One needs a set of batteries for each gyroscope (which is carried by the arm, best at the center of rotation above the axis of the stepper motor), a set of batteries for the two stepper motors and a set of batteries for the microcontroller.

So, it is not a simple project. Mechanically and electronically the requirements are quite high. Therefore it takes me so long (and I also have other things to do like living and relating to my environment). At the moment I have no speed control for the gyroscopes and I observe while they spin down (the gyroscopes are span up with a Dremel drill, like Laurent does in his latest video). My final design will have the nice gyroscopes from England with pulse width speed control  https://www.gyroscope.com/d.asp?product=SUPER2 (the gyroscope comes with a 6V DC motor)

The tests done by Laurent helped me a lot to design my setup. I started with a much too simple design.

If you have forgotten how my set up looks at the moment please look at these posts
 http://overunity.com/17573/inertial-propulsion-with-gyroscope/msg518684/#msg518684
 http://overunity.com/17573/inertial-propulsion-with-gyroscope/msg519133/#msg519133

Greetings, Conrad

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #182 on: April 30, 2018, 01:58:19 PM »
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Offline Hanelore

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #183 on: May 05, 2018, 04:13:42 PM »
Hi Laurent,
 
 thanks for all your videos and craftsmanship!
 
 Why not doing the ultimate pendulum test for any claimed unidirectional motivator?
 
 http://www.nemitz.net/vernon/Pendulum.gif
 
 I think the device of your video part 10 would be an ideal canditate!
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjoyPU5t2ys#t=150
 
 Put it in a transparent box and attache a laser pointer, which beams on a ruler.
 
 See page 15 in Nasa-Paper "Assessing Potential Propulsion Breakthroughs":
 
 http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20060000022.pdf
 
 Hope to see this experiment on Youtube soon!!!
 
 Keep it up, Hanelore

Offline telecom

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #184 on: May 07, 2018, 10:26:26 AM »

My interpretation of your video: what the layman expects to be a weightloss goes in fact into a circular movement of the arm. In other words, when the gyroscope is up (what looks like a weight loss) the force (which keeps the gyroscope up) translates into a force that turns the arm. And slowly this turning force is diminishing (the arm goes back into balance) when the gyroscope spins down. And this is not for free. The power you put into spinning up the gyroscope is slowly dissipated into turning the arm while it spins down. (All the friction losses make it very complicated. I ignored friction in my explanation.)

This is still "wonderful" because a spinning of the gyroscope is turned into a circular movement of the arm. The interesting part is that the spinning of the gyroscope and the turning of the arm are both "angular moments". Therefore conservation of moment is not violated.

Yesterday I finally got my new stepper motor drivers
Greetings, Conrad
Hi Conrad,
when saying this you imply that there is a transmission between the gyro and the precession.
But I don't see any such mechanism.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #184 on: May 07, 2018, 10:26:26 AM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #185 on: May 07, 2018, 04:05:25 PM »
Hi Conrad,
when saying this you imply that there is a transmission between the gyro and the precession.
But I don't see any such mechanism.

I learned that my understanding of the gyroscope and specially my understanding of a gyroscope on an arm which can or is turned around a central axis is very flawed. In fact I do not understand anything contrary to what I believed before I did some experiments. So, if you think you understand something try to demonstrate it by help of a contraption. Make a video of the experiment. I stopped to believe in words, only a demonstration of something with a gyroscope is worth discussing.

I try to do experiments, but simple contraptions are not enough. At the moment I believe that a stepper motor could shed light on the strange behaviour of a gyroscope by turning an arm which carries a gyroscope with variable speed (acceleration or deceleration). But this is not as simple as it sounds because the rate of acceleration or deceleration of the arm and the rotary speed of the gyroscope have both an influence. The relationship between acceleration (or deceleration) of the arm and the rotary speed of the gyroscope is not trivial, a contraption shows very different behaviour depending on both factors.

This post describes what I think at the moment http://overunity.com/17573/inertial-propulsion-with-gyroscope/msg520668/#msg520668 , but it will propably change when progressing with my work.

This experiment (not done by me) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldqUV-DXiUg shows the situation I am talking about. Now imagine the center of the arm is a stepper motor accelerating (or decelerating) the arm and in addition that the nodding of the arm (you my call it precession) is restricted. Very strange things happen if you look closely. The question is, in which direction wants the whole contraption to move? Apparently the contraption does not lose weight but it wants to move over the table (which one only sees if it can move and is not restricted by friction as in the video).

If this all sounds weird, it is because I know nothing. And I think that the experts also know nothing once the right questions are asked or the right contraptions are built.

Also watch Laurent's video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyqyX7jgjZU , it also shows what I am talking about.

Greetings, Conrad
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 09:56:13 PM by conradelektro »

Offline ramset

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #186 on: May 07, 2018, 07:35:38 PM »
Seems that even the more exotic Gyro experiments just leave more questions than answers.
Member Smudge has some musings and thoughts on a possible method to harvest Gain from a gyro and put it to work?
here
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=129.msg67612;topicseen#msg67612

he is also a member here.


respectfully
Chet K

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #186 on: May 07, 2018, 07:35:38 PM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #187 on: May 07, 2018, 08:56:14 PM »
Seems that even the more exotic Gyro experiments just leave more questions than answers.
Member Smudge has some musings and thoughts on a possible method to harvest Gain from a gyro and put it to work?
here
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=129.msg67612;topicseen#msg67612

There are hundreds if not thousands ideas concerning gyroscopes mainly in respect to "turning the rotary motions of a gyroscope into a linear motion". I read quite a lot of them and the new thing in the Fiala patent (which I did not find in all the other "inventions" I heard of) is that the rotary speed of the gyroscope matters. It is not that the gyroscope should spin as fast as possible, no, the gyroscope should have a certain speed below it's technically possible top speed. Fiala mentions that several times in his two patents.

This seems to be novel and is the reason why I experiment. Fiala says in his two patents that there is a relationship between the rotational speed of the arm and the rotational speed of the gyroscope.

Laurent also shows in his video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyqyX7jgjZU that the rotational speed of the gyroscope matters indeed.

If the rotational speed of a gyroscope matters (besides being as fast as possible) things become more complicated and might have been overlooked because the outcome of many experiments might be radically different depending on the rotational speed of the gyroscope. And it is very unlikely that experimenters used the right rotational speed by chance. My guess is that the gyroscope in many experiments span too fast because one would intuitively spin it as fast as technically possible expecting a greater "force" if the gyroscope spins faster. And this might be the crucial error which caused failure in many experiments. This might be the crucial fact which Fiala discovered.

Unfortunately the contraption which Fiala shows in his video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sy8znYK8EXg (start at minute 36:00) and which Laurent replicated is not totally conclusive, many questions are left open. It seems that at least two such contraptions turning synchronously would be necessary to learn more. And that is exactly what I am building.

I am not naive and I am aware that current science excludes a "space drive" built with gyroscopes. But I like to experiment and I like strange contraptions (and I like to play with stepper motors). So, whatever I tell you and will tell you, do your own experiments and be aware that I am not an expert, just an old man who fiddles with things beyond his understanding.

If you want to know what I found so far, read this post http://overunity.com/17573/inertial-propulsion-with-gyroscope/msg520668/#msg520668 . And watch Laurent's videos https://www.youtube.com/user/woopyjump/videos (the 16 most recent ones with "inertial propulsion" in the title).

Greetings, Conrad

Offline woopy

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #188 on: May 08, 2018, 07:34:05 PM »

Hi conrad

Your last posts are very interesting.

And yes the spinning speed of the gyro is very important. That's why i have implemented a speed regulator (pwm) on my motors.

And also do not forget to decrease the DEAD MASS (on the gyro side at a maximum). Each gramm is important.

I am now doing some very interesting test on the precession of  2 gyros mounted on the same vertical rotation shaft but free precessing 180 degre of each other. Plus other test with the pivot completely offset of the vertical rotation shaft.

Mind shaking, so fascinating.

 Lot of fun.

Laurent








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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #188 on: May 08, 2018, 07:34:05 PM »
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Offline woopy

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #189 on: May 08, 2018, 11:18:30 PM »
Hi Hanelore

Please can you explain to me the difference between a Nasa's pendulum test and my suspended wheel results in my video part 6 and 14 on the subject.

Thank's

Laurent

Offline woopy

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #190 on: May 08, 2018, 11:32:19 PM »
Re-hi Hanelore

fergot to give you the link to

video 6   https://youtu.be/VoDj5KlJztc

video 14  https://youtu.be/AlH1zfGG7_Y   

good night at all

Laurent

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #190 on: May 08, 2018, 11:32:19 PM »
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Offline shadowbones

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #191 on: May 09, 2018, 12:24:22 AM »
Dear Laurent,

I am fascinated by your experiments. You are very innovative. The geometry of the apparatus seems to be key, much like it was during the historical development of electric motors.

By the way, the pendulum experiment suggested above would not be appropriate for your device, because you are not generating a sustained acceleration. In order for the pendulum to stay deviated sideways, you would need a continuous acceleration to oppose the acceleration of gravity. You do not have that. How to produce one seems to be a difficult problem.

But really your demonstration that linear momentum is not conserved (at least not in a way that we can see) is plenty interesting by itself.

Kevin

P.S. I would love to try to make some devices myself. Do you have suggestions for good places to find all the little parts you use: bearings, shafts, motors, supports, brackets, etc? And especially, can you tell us where you order the fidget spinner from?




Offline conradelektro

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #192 on: May 09, 2018, 01:16:30 PM »
Please can you explain to me the difference between a Nasa's pendulum test and my suspended wheel results in my video part 6 and 14 on the subject.

The NASA swing test of an inertial drive: If the inertial drive is placed on a swing the swing should stay permanently on one side of vertical.

Please look at the attached drawing. Imagine that the inertial drive sits on the swing like a child. Switch the inertial drive on and go to the side of the swing (side view on the drawing). If the inertial drive pushes forward the swing should stay permanently to the right of vertical. The swing may swing back and forth a bit initially but after a while the swing should stay permanently away from the vertical position.

If one attaches a laser pointer to the swing, one can see on the floor whether the laser point wanders to the left or the right of the vertical position and whether it stays finally at a position away from the vertical (initial) position.

This is the obvious test of an inertial drive and I do not believe that it was invented by NASA. But it sounds good to call it the "NASA swing test".

May be that helps, Conrad


@Laurent: you can use the swing in your bunker for training and amusement.

Offline woopy

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #193 on: May 09, 2018, 05:13:35 PM »
Hi conrad

Thank's for your drawings. Of course i knew it , but my question to Hanelore was more to let him (her) explain if there is any advantage with the Nasa's pendulum test in comparaison with my rotating suspended wheel (whych is somehow also a pendulum system ).

To me a viable Nasa's pendulum test could only be made with a double twin gyroscope system.  (minimum 4 gyroscopes all in symetrical position horizontal and vertical to get a perfect straight forward oriented pushing action, you can see some exemple in the Laithwaite patent), because the wobling due to asymetrical movement and vertical  and side effects are counter productive and can decrease and even completely destroy the propulsion.

Just for info and reminder, i was some how desappointed by the so slow acceleration (video 14) of the mono gyro Fiala's flat system on the suspended wheel in comparison with the nice translation on the solid flat ground.
 
And to me the explanation is that the wobling of the suspended wheel induces strong  horizontal oscillations so the device is not on a planar surface but on a kind of roller coaster carousel, which  produces some free and/or forced precession to the gyro even on the motorising side (where it should be no free precession at all and the gyro should exhibit full newtonian action -reaction as per a dead mass) This has already been discussed in this thread with Dr Jones.

And now i feel very lucky to get some rotation of the suspended wheel even with those negatively acting wobling. And i think that the forward displacement of the Nasa's pendulum test is compensated by the force that let the suspended wheel rotate

And as final, i have a big problem, all the nasa's pendulum test i have seen , need very long lines. And the bunker i have received has a roof height of only
2.3 meters. Probably to low for this kind of test.
So when you  order yours, don't forget to choose the version with chimney.

Greetings

Laurent

Offline Hanelore

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #194 on: May 10, 2018, 01:32:45 AM »
Hi Laurent,
 
 there is an important difference between the tests!
 
 Your suspended wheel test:
 If machine causes angular momentum instead of (linear) momentum,
 then it will go in circles too.
 
 Nasa pendulum test:
 If machine causes angular momentum instead of (linear) momentum,
 then it will wobble at its initial position, but the laser point at
 the ruler will not show a clear unidirectional movement.
 
 Gyros are already in use for attitude control of spacecrafts,
 but system center of mass does not move during operation!
 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_moment_gyroscope
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaction_wheel
 
 If a system is fixed to an external mass like your suspended wheel on
 the ceiling, then angular momentum causes rotation about this point.
 
 If you want to prove that machine center of mass is moving without
 expelling masses like a rocket, then Nasa pendulum test is necessary.
 
 For easy recognizable results a double twin gyroscope system is perfect,
 but one twin gyroscope system like that in video part 10 will show it too!
 
 Only one gyro is not a good idea because of wobbling about vertical axis.
 
 Long lines for Nasa pendulum test are perfect, but 2m are good enough
 for a first test - just use additional weights on the machine stand plate
 in order to reduce wobbling around the transverse axis.
 
 Still hoping to see this experiment on Youtube soon!
 
 Best, Hanelore

 

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