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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: norman6538 on January 06, 2018, 02:54:27 PM

Title: Echlin, Flynn, Kunnel - flux path devices
Post by: norman6538 on January 06, 2018, 02:54:27 PM
I am reviewing the Echlin, Flynn, Kunnel flux path devices.

I understand that the Echlin is a no Lenz counter to motion device
because the coil is perpendicular to the magnet. If that is true
then it is a VERY GOOD THING.

But as drawn there is a very strong sticky spot when the metal
shifts the flux to the coil. But if that could be properly phased with
a second device then that pull toward and the pull back when leaving
could be balanced so that there is only a mechanical rotation
work in required. I am working on a drawing to show that setup.

I remember Al Francour sp? got this working but he said that it
required very close tolerances.

There could be a mechanical version of this as well as a elec generator
version but the mechanical version always has severe limits due to the
further weaker aspect of magnets.

There really is not much recent activity on Echlin, Flynn, Kunnel flux path devices.

I hope someone can enlighten us on these devices.
Kunnel said that his device worked but not as drawn. I never could figure
out how to fix the drawing.

There is an improved version of the Flynn setup called Pemox.
see attached.

Norman
Title: Re: Echlin, Flynn, Kunnel - flux path devices
Post by: leomongolia on January 11, 2018, 12:49:46 PM
Hello
Let us consider a simple version like a Flynn device:
https://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/512773000000c6.png
Title: Re: Echlin, Flynn, Kunnel - flux path devices
Post by: norman6538 on December 30, 2018, 01:39:39 AM
Check out another idea here on Flynn Lafonte combination.

https://overunity.com/18104/flynn-lafonte-slider-800-ou-possible/new/#new

it doubles Flynn from 400% to 800%.

Norman
Title: Re: Echlin, Flynn, Kunnel - flux path devices
Post by: F6FLT on December 31, 2018, 05:14:58 PM
...
I understand that the Echlin is a no Lenz counter to motion device
because the coil is perpendicular to the magnet. If that is true
then it is a VERY GOOD THING.
...
That is false. Flux are looped. When magnets move, they are always flux from the coil crossing the magnet and flux from the magnet crossing the coil.
Title: Re: Echlin, Flynn, Kunnel - flux path devices
Post by: norman6538 on December 31, 2018, 08:09:10 PM
That is false. Flux are looped. When magnets move, they are always flux from the coil crossing the magnet and flux from the magnet crossing the coil.

I personally have never seen a no lenz device - perhaps reduced lenz.
What I think Lenz is - is a field comming out of the coil outside - not the inside.
It is weaker than the electro magnet field because it  has no core there.
 It is pushes back some  when the magnet and
coil approach each other and it holds back as they leave each other.
If you do this with a coil pendulum setup you can see when current flows
it swings less times till it stops.


Even Shielding that coil does not stop the counter  to motion force.

Norman
Title: Re: Echlin, Flynn, Kunnel - flux path devices
Post by: lancaIV on January 01, 2019, 03:07:01 PM
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=DE&NR=3101918A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=&date=19820819&DB=&locale=# (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=DE&NR=3101918A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=&date=19820819&DB=&locale=#)
http://translationportal.epo.org/emtp/translate/?ACTION=description-retrieval&COUNTRY=DE&ENGINE=google&FORMAT=docdb&KIND=A1&LOCALE=en_EP&NUMBER=3101918&OPS=ops.epo.org/3.2&SRCLANG=de&TRGLANG=en (http://translationportal.epo.org/emtp/translate/?ACTION=description-retrieval&COUNTRY=DE&ENGINE=google&FORMAT=docdb&KIND=A1&LOCALE=en_EP&NUMBER=3101918&OPS=ops.epo.org/3.2&SRCLANG=de&TRGLANG=en)
"energy supplied output ratio" versus "power factor < 1"
Do we need the introduction in Physics the term " energy factor" ? Or " energy ratio factor" ?
Here performance dependant : <=> 1,10,......" momentum converter" = Kraftwandler
Title: Re: Echlin, Flynn, Kunnel - flux path devices
Post by: Paul-R on January 02, 2019, 03:54:49 PM
I personally have never seen a no lenz device - perhaps reduced lenz.

Have a look at Patrick on the subject:

http://www.free-energy-info.com/Chapter16.pdf
Title: Re: Echlin, Flynn, Kunnel - flux path devices
Post by: Belfior on January 02, 2019, 07:26:22 PM
My take on Kunel is that you take 2 C-cores and put a magnet between the left side gap and a control coil on the other gap with a piece of iron (magnet sized piece).

Then in the center hole you put an aluminium rod that almost connects the top and bottom of the core. Leave a small gap. Make an output coil around the rod.

PM flux goes through he control coil, when it is not energized. When you pulse strong DC into the control coil it blocks the flux path from the PM and it goes through the center rod and over the air gap.

If the flux is too strong to divert, then drop the iron piece so the control coil has an air gap too.

There should now be a changing flux through the output coil
Title: Re: Echlin, Flynn, Kunnel - flux path devices
Post by: Low-Q on January 03, 2019, 07:43:52 AM
Have a look at Patrick on the subject:

http://www.free-energy-info.com/Chapter16.pdf (http://www.free-energy-info.com/Chapter16.pdf)
This looks interesting enough to take a closer look at. It should be easy to build the permanentmagnet version.
Say that I fix the two outer magnets, and put a flywheel on the middle magnet and let it rotate horizontally. Then see for how long the magnet spins without loading the coil.
Then load or short circuit the coil to see for how long the magnet will spin then. I must ofcourse be sure that the RPM is the same in both experiments.
Only then we can say if the lenz law applies or not. If not, it should not be induced voltage over the coil, nor induce current when the coil is loaded.


Vidar
Title: Re: Echlin, Flynn, Kunnel - flux path devices
Post by: norman6538 on January 03, 2019, 03:54:07 PM
This looks interesting enough to take a closer look at. It should be easy to build the permanentmagnet version.
Say that I fix the two outer magnets, and put a flywheel on the middle magnet and let it rotate horizontally. Then see for how long the magnet spins without loading the coil.
Then load or short circuit the coil to see for how long the magnet will spin then. I must ofcourse be sure that the RPM is the same in both experiments.
Only then we can say if the lenz law applies or not. If not, it should not be induced voltage over the coil, nor induce current when the coil is loaded.


Vidar

Vidar I'm not sure I understand where the movement is. We have done Lenz force tests with
a pendulum dropped from a fixed height and counted the swings to eliminate any measurement
issues. But those tests were with a magnet passing the end of the iron core.

Would that work in your case?
Norman
Title: Re: Echlin, Flynn, Kunnel - flux path devices
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on January 04, 2019, 12:50:05 AM
Hi All,

This is more of a mechanical way to break the flux path. The closest I've gotten to a no Lenz design is using ferro-fluid under tension then breaking it with a thin light weight plastic blade. There is very little resistance on the blade. The output is very small though, in millivolt range, so it's not practical on a small scale.
Title: Re: Echlin, Flynn, Kunnel - flux path devices
Post by: Low-Q on January 04, 2019, 11:50:00 AM
Vidar I'm not sure I understand where the movement is. We have done Lenz force tests with
a pendulum dropped from a fixed height and counted the swings to eliminate any measurement
issues. But those tests were with a magnet passing the end of the iron core.

Would that work in your case?
Norman
I don't think it will work in my case. Dropping a pendulum over an iron core, you also need a coil around the core so you have some output. But the pendulum will resist passing the iron core if the coil is loaded, since the coil generate an opposing magnetic field when you load it. With just the iron core, you will loose very little.
The movement in my case is the spin for the magnet in center of those three. This will move the magnetic field that is "generated" from all three magnets combined side to side and crossing the coil above. The reason I want the magnet to spin horizontally is because if it is rotating vertically, that magnet will probably suffer from drag in the opposing magnetic field fron the coil when it is loaded.
That might happen anyways since the magnetic field is crossing the coil in both scenarios.


I can also make a wheel like in the image below. It will do the same. If the stationary magnets on each side isn't there, nothing is generated in the coil.


Vidar
Title: Re: Echlin, Flynn, Kunnel - flux path devices
Post by: Low-Q on January 04, 2019, 11:52:36 AM
Hi All,

This is more of a mechanical way to break the flux path. The closest I've gotten to a no Lenz design is using ferro-fluid under tension then breaking it with a thin light weight plastic blade. There is very little resistance on the blade. The output is very small though, in millivolt range, so it's not practical on a small scale.
This is cool! Really! I would recommend to point equal poles towards eachother. In that way I suppose more fluxlines will cross the coil windings when the blade pass through the ferrofluid.


Vidar
Title: Re: Echlin, Flynn, Kunnel - flux path devices
Post by: Belfior on January 04, 2019, 01:05:19 PM
I think Lenz is a problem with closed paths.

Excite an iron core with a coil. L2 is an open coil with a diode the goes to cap plate 1. L3 is an open coil with a reversed diode that goes into cap plate 2. Both L2 and L3 are over the iron core.

That is diminished Lenz
Title: Re: Echlin, Flynn, Kunnel - flux path devices
Post by: Low-Q on January 07, 2019, 07:04:36 PM
I think Lenz is a problem with closed paths.

Excite an iron core with a coil. L2 is an open coil with a diode the goes to cap plate 1. L3 is an open coil with a reversed diode that goes into cap plate 2. Both L2 and L3 are over the iron core.

That is diminished Lenz
Lentz is a problem the very moment you load the coil - diodes, caps or not, wouldn't you think?


Vidar
Title: Re: Echlin, Flynn, Kunnel - flux path devices
Post by: Belfior on January 07, 2019, 09:40:19 PM
I would suggest the open circuit there causes different results. I have been told that you can't get any current between 2 open coils, but I sure can light an LED with it