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### Author Topic: Pulse Motor Video  (Read 22165 times)

#### ian

• Newbie
• Posts: 11
##### Re: Pulse Motor Video
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2007, 10:31:31 AM »
Hi everyone.

I just filmed this experiment today and uploaded...

Please anyone correct me if there is anything wrong in my calculations or anything else here...

After watching this, it becomes extremely clear that using high strength magnets in a rotor and then repelling it with a pulse of a known quantity value of energy via a  pulse, will push the rotor further away, ie, more force than with weaker magnets.

Also, I will disclose here another fact about magnetic field geometries.

If a coil of wire has 500 turns with a known voltage has 5 amps running through it, it will give a B field value of 2500 gauss.  ie amps times number of turns.

If I have a second identical coil and I put them in series, then the resistance will double and the amps will be half.
The total B field strength will be 2.5 times 1,000 which equals the same as before 2,500 gauss.

Now take the two coils in series and add two more series coils to the first ones and put them in parallel with the first ones. The resistance now halves and we have a total of 5 amps as we did in the scenario with just one coil.
Each leg has 2.5 amps moving through it and a B field of 2,500 gauss. So now the TOTAL B field strength is 2,500 times 2 which equals 5,000 gauss.

So by just changing the geometry of the setup, we get double the B field strength for the same input watts, because the voltage is fixed in this experiment.

But it gets better. :-)

If we have just the one coil hitting a magnet, the force repelling the magnet will be the sum of the strength of both B fields. So in case on with on coil and one magnet, and let us say the magnet has the same B field of 2,500 gauss, then the repelling force will be 5,000 gauss.

Now in our third case with the series parallel circuit, with 4 coils repelling 4 magnets, the total repelling B field against 4 magnets of 2,500 gauss each plus the electromagnet B field strength of 1,250 gauss for 3,750 gauss times 4 coil permanent magnet & electromagnet pairs for a TOTAL B field repelling strength of 15,000 gauss. This is THREE times the the field strength of the single coil alone.

This is with the same input of five amps as in case. Input watts is totally irrelevant to output.

Now add to this the fact that very strong neo magnets want to attract themselves to the cores on their own, and the fact the a B field in an electromagnet is the mu of the metal times the current times the number of turns, then by adding a good mu metal core, we get even more free magnetic field strength.

Now add to this as some strong permanent magnets on the end of the stators, and the attraction force is even greater for free.

... and I haven't even started to recycle the bemf yet... '-)

Food for thought I guess...

Wishing everyone success in whatever direction one goes for high COP values...

Regards,
ian

#### hartiberlin

• Hero Member
• Posts: 8012
##### Re: Pulse Motor Video
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2007, 11:11:48 AM »
Hi Ian,
well done video demo.

The problem I see with your calculation is,
that it is only for the static case.
You normally have to build up a magnetic field inside
the coil.
When the coil has more inductance L,
then it takes more energy from the cap to build this
up as E= 0.5 x L x i^2

So now you need to compare the energy stored in your cap:
E= 0.5 x C x voltage^2
and the Energy you moved the magnet mass away, which is
E= force x distance.
As force= mass of magnet x g ( earth acceleration )
we can write:
E= mass of magnet x g x distance

this must be the same as
E= 0.5 x C x voltage^2 so we can write:

0.5 x C x voltage^2= mass of magnet x g x distance
so now we can calculate the maximum distance to:

distance= 0.5 x C x voltage^2 / (mass of magnet x g )

so in your case the maximum distance should be:
0.5 x 0.01 F x 12,5Volts^2 / 0.03 kG x 9,81=  2,65 Meters.

So as you have losses in the coil resistance and maybe your magnet
is not exactly 30 Gramms, you should get without losses about2.65 Meters
distance, but you only get around 50 cm !

Now , if you succeed to shoot this magnet more than 2.65 Meters away you have overunity !

Maybe try with a core inside the coil or a bigger coil !
Will be intersting to see, if you will succeed !
Also you could try to increase the mass of the neodym magnet.

Good luck !

Regards, Stefan.

#### ian

• Newbie
• Posts: 11
##### Re: Pulse Motor Video
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2007, 12:18:51 PM »
Hi, I just weighed the the neo magnet with a scale for more than 30 grams. It weighs 50 grams.

So:

0.5 x 0.01 F x 12,5Volts2 / 0.05 kG x 9,81=  0.7964 Meters.
now we have to add resistance to this, in this case the mu resistance of air and the surface should be the difference between of 0.7964 meters and my measurements of about 0.56 meters giving a mu value of 0.73 for combined static and moving.

I think you may have missed my main point though... in that the same amount of energy was used to propel a heavier object over three times further with no extra energy input from the operator.

Also, the other information in that post on the geometry of the coil setup is quite valid.

The other thing you mention about building up the L inside the coil in with a moving magnet... I measured the inductance to the secondary coils in my motor(as the meter won't measure the primary because it needs a higher resistance), but I figure they are very close. It measures at 0.3 Henrys.  My rotor when spinning is running way less than 0.3 seconds duty cycle(on time). Also, I heard Bedini say that this is what needs to be done. Run the coils inductively.

I'm having a bit of a hard time building my commutator, but am almost there, so I'll post more as I go...

Thanks for your time Stephan,
ian

#### hartiberlin

• Hero Member
• Posts: 8012
##### Re: Pulse Motor Video
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2007, 12:26:33 PM »
Hi Ian,
in normal motors you always have the counter EMF voltage, when the rotor
magnet induces back into the driving coil ,so you always have to put more
power into the driving coil than your rotor magnet delivers...

But this may not be the case, if you do it via repelling pulses as you do...
Anyway, with fast pulses you have a dynamic system and as you need
to put energy up into the coil to build up the field,
it takes longer when you use more wire and the inductances
of the coils gets bigger...

So I am curious to see, if you will find a a way around it and
can violate Lentz law this way...

Please keep us informed.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.

#### hartiberlin

• Hero Member
• Posts: 8012
##### Re: Pulse Motor Video
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2007, 12:31:14 PM »
Hi, I just weighed the the neo magnet with a scale for more than 30 grams. It weighs 50 grams.

So:

0.5 x 0.01 F x 12,5Volts2 / 0.05 kG x 9,81=  0.7964 Meters.

Did you misscalculate it ?
I get 1.59 Meters for this as the result...

Regards, Stefan.

#### ian

• Newbie
• Posts: 11
##### Re: Pulse Motor Video
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2007, 12:52:48 PM »
Hi, I just weighed the the neo magnet with a scale for more than 30 grams. It weighs 50 grams.

So:

0.5 x 0.01 F x 12,5Volts2 / 0.05 kG x 9,81=  0.7964 Meters.

Did you misscalculate it ?
I get 1.59 Meters for this as the result...

Regards, Stefan.

... could be.. it's late and I'm tired...

#### ian

• Newbie
• Posts: 11
##### Re: Pulse Motor Video
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2007, 12:58:44 PM »
Hi Ian,
in normal motors you always have the counter EMF voltage, when the rotor
magnet induces back into the driving coil ,so you always have to put more
power into the driving coil than your rotor magnet delivers...

But this may not be the case, if you do it via repelling pulses as you do...
Anyway, with fast pulses you have a dynamic system and as you need
to put energy up into the coil to build up the field,
it takes longer when you use more wire and the inductances
of the coils gets bigger...

So I am curious to see, if you will find a a way around it and
can violate Lentz law this way...

Please keep us informed.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.

A few years back I was in contact with a fellow at a major university who built and tested many pulse motors. He said that because we are repelling the magnet, that the stator field direction was the same direction as the induced magnetic field so they reduced the lentz effect...

but yes, well see... wish i had a milling machine right about now.. :-)

Thanks again,
best regards,
ian

#### ian

• Newbie
• Posts: 11
##### Re: Pulse Motor Video
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2007, 11:58:09 AM »
Hi, I just weighed the the neo magnet with a scale for more than 30 grams. It weighs 50 grams.

So:

0.5 x 0.01 F x 12,5Volts2 / 0.05 kG x 9,81=  0.7964 Meters.

Did you misscalculate it ?
I get 1.59 Meters for this as the result...

Regards, Stefan.

I'm not big on Lorentz... but I just had a thought here.. put a magnet on each side of the coil, then add the two distances... maybe I'll try the experiment again to see...

#### ian

• Newbie
• Posts: 11
##### Re: Pulse Motor Video
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2007, 12:00:20 PM »
Hi everyone...

Thought that I would share my latest experiments with the group...

This is a modification from previous experiments. The rotor is bigger and uses powerful rare earth magnets. I built a special commutator because I wanted to use the previous proven circuits on this model but reed switches can't handle the high current and transistors only work on the negative side of the coil bank where the circuit required the switches on the positive side. So I made an adjustable commutator. One of the circuits did not work with this model so far. In fact, these magnets are so strong, that when supplied with the large current needed to get the rotor up to working speed, I believe I over-saturated the small cores of the coils.
Still more test to do on this model.

On the first half of this video the motor is running on 24 volts using this circuit,
http://www.mintakafulcrum.net/Instructionsmk4.htm
which did seem to work to some degree as the motor does appear not to draw extra current under load.

I'll do more testing but I need six batteries to do this properly.

The second half of the video the motor is running from one battery bank and with no recovery circuits. The draw goes up considerably under load.

The circuit that i was hoping to use, did not work at all for some reason...
http://www.mintakafulcrum.net/Instructionsmk5.1.htm

If anyone can tell me why, It'd be greatly appreciated...

ian

#### Thaelin

• TPU-Elite
• Hero Member
• Posts: 1066
##### Re: Pulse Motor Video
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2007, 12:53:34 PM »
Hi Ian:
Have built quite a few of this style of motor. One thing I should bring up for you at this stage is your amp readings are misleading. The reading you are seeing is an average of the actual. What I mean is you are seeing pulses, not a steady amp draw. If seen in a scope it would be a series of spikes instead. To know the true draw of a coil is to hook it up to a batt long enough for the meter to level out. I some times could see six and eight amp draw on one of the coils and it had six. You also have to factor in time of the pulse as well.

On the link to the push/pull circuit, I see no reason it would not run. Since I was not able to see your setup, it would not be fair for me to comment on what my thoughts would be. Happy experimenting

thaelin

#### ian

• Newbie
• Posts: 11
##### Re: Pulse Motor Video
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2007, 12:50:51 AM »
Yes.. I know what you mean.. the coils bank is 3.4 ohms. This into 36 volts gives ~10 amps. Yes.. the meter gives an "average". That is what I want. This is why i use an analogue meter instead of a digital. From what I've seen of Bedini, he uses an analogue amp meter for his motors as well and he seems to know what he is doing quite well. I could see that if there was some sort of resonance with the meter, then it may show reactive amps and therefore not a true reading.

Thanks for your time to look...

ian

#### tropes

• Full Member
• Posts: 226
##### Re: Pulse Motor Video
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2007, 11:14:38 PM »
It really is very simple. It is just a regular low grade steel bolt with the head ground from hex to round. The reed switch turns the transistor on and off. The coil is bi-filar wound(two wires). One wire for driving the rotor and the wire for taking the back emf off using a single reverse diode.
Ian
Do the two wires switch on simultaniously or is the pulse for driving the rotor slightly advanced? Do you think I could use such a bifilar coil on my Sotropa Motor?
Peter

#### ian

• Newbie
• Posts: 11
##### Re: Pulse Motor Video
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2007, 03:39:32 AM »

Quote
Ian
Do the two wires switch on simultaniously or is the pulse for driving the rotor slightly advanced? Do you think I could use such a bifilar coil on my Sotropa Motor?
Peter

Hi Peter... No the primary is used to pulse the coil, and the secondary is used to just send the collapsing magnetic field to a cap.. You could swich it but you don't have to. Yeah you could use this.. but a single coil will work just as good imho...

Call me if you like.. I'm home and free for a bit. although, I'm in the shop at the moment.. thank God... waiting for a special tool.. so in the meantime I'm building this...