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Author Topic: motor gear inertia generator -new help  (Read 3091 times)

Offline justawatt

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motor gear inertia generator -new help
« on: December 20, 2017, 05:05:14 PM »
Hi i came across a patent ,which has a starter motor then set of gears then bottom gear is looped back till the start and generator.

i am sharing the diagram ,can some one hear know how to calculate the gear ratio ,i would like to make this device ,all the gears are available
in the market ,but if someone who can help to design gear do help. 

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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: motor gear inertia generator -new help
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2017, 02:31:58 AM »
Do you have a link to the patent?


I’m not able to look at the photos, Stephan still hasn’t fixed the mobile html resized settings.


Gears are a little different than pulleys
It’s not just the size, but also tooth count, and angle has some effects as well.




Offline justawatt

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Re: motor gear inertia generator -new help
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2017, 12:02:48 PM »
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Offline wattsup

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Re: motor gear inertia generator -new help
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2017, 01:39:40 PM »
@justawatt

The simple fact that large gears are coupled to smaller gears removes all possibility of "inertia".

This patent is totally useless and will only generate friction between those gear teeth.

Please do not waste any time trying to make this because it has less then zero merit. 

wattsup


Offline sm0ky2

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Re: motor gear inertia generator -new help
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2017, 09:30:31 PM »
@justawatt

The simple fact that large gears are coupled to smaller gears removes all possibility of "inertia".

This patent is totally useless and will only generate friction between those gear teeth.

Please do not waste any time trying to make this because it has less then zero merit. 

wattsup


This is true with most gears, as they are made with high frictional coefficients.
This does not have to be the case, as evident in R/C race cars.
Where the inertia DOES present itself in a prominent way.
Perfectly matched, well lubricated gears can carry their momentum for quite some time.


That’s probably why the inventor said things like “those skilled in the art”, in contrast to
“those who are not very good at it”.


Gears can be less frictional than belts and pulleys (under tension)
When they are made well.


Gears can also be made poorly, or from the wrong materials.
For instance, elasticity has a large negative effect. Which is why metal and ceramic gears
work better than plastic ones.


In the automotive industry, gears are intentionally given higher friction, and heavy lubricants,
BECAUSE of the extreme momenta involved.
Otherwise the inertia of your 2ton car would destroy the driveshaft and transmission gears.


I can’t make any judgment of such a convoluted machine at first glance,
Without experimental testing of the device.
But just because it uses gears, doesn’t mean it’s off the table.








Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: motor gear inertia generator -new help
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2017, 09:30:31 PM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: motor gear inertia generator -new help
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2017, 10:00:01 PM »
My biggest apprehension with this is not the friction


But the set turn-ratio.
I don’t see how anything “extra” can take place.
the gears will turn in accordance to their ratio.
Which will always be less than the driving force.
If you step up the torque, you slow the turns.
and vice versa.


It’s confusing to think about what is presented here.
There are the large gears and their comparative ratios.
But also the geared shaft, and that has differing ratios to
each gear.
But all the gears act on the shaft at the same time.


My guess is that to set this thing in motion will require a huge
force, irrecoverable by the mechanical means of the driven device.
the flywheel effect can make something like this spin for a while
However, I have serious doubts that it could drive the motor that
set it into motion in the first place.






Offline sm0ky2

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Re: motor gear inertia generator -new help
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2017, 06:13:00 AM »
So.......


We add a bunch of heavy rotating mass
To a QuMoGen.......
And this creates perpetual motion??


Hmmm




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Re: motor gear inertia generator -new help
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2017, 06:13:00 AM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: motor gear inertia generator -new help
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2017, 03:59:54 PM »
I do not know the answer to that.


I would think not, I have not been successful with adding more flywheel mass to things and have them suddenly work,, but that should not state for sure that it can not,, only that I failed using this method.


Me too, as did many on this forum.
I was mostly being sarcastic.


There are approx. 130 patents for QuMos that have slipped through the patent office


I think because there’s a powered motor on it for input it voids their anti-pmm policy.

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: motor gear inertia generator -new help
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2017, 01:09:36 AM »
I think it’s more of a long step-up torque converter
To drive the generator under full load.
The load being the drive motor


Like the thing with the two a/c fan blocks
One big wheel one small wheel
And a rubber band between them


The same basic concept underlies all QuMos


The torque from the drive motor
Has to power the generator
To supply current to the motor




Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: motor gear inertia generator -new help
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2017, 01:09:36 AM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: motor gear inertia generator -new help
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2017, 01:14:37 AM »
The basic idea behind it is:


The drive motor only uses some set value of energy


The generator can supply more
“If you have enough torque to get past the back emf”


Now wether or not this actually can be done....
That depends on who you talk to.


Lot of people on both sides of that fence.


Offline wattsup

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Re: motor gear inertia generator -new help
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2017, 02:50:37 PM »
@smOky2

The generator does not only need torque, it needs rpm. It will not produce any meaningful output if not under sustained
rpm against a given drag requiring torque.

All the patent is doing in producing more torque at less rpm.

Believe me, I have been working with a local guy on gearing systems for quit some time now with so many tests, burnt drive motors.
You put a car alternator on there as the generator and you need 1200 rpm just to get it going but ideally need to run it at 2400 rpm
or more and when that sucker starts dishing out juice it seizes like a donkey refusing to advance.

Higher rpm always means lower torque when using a set drive force. Using figurative numbers because the drive motor rpm of 300
delivers an rpm of 3000 to the alternator, when the alternator drags to a force of 1, the drive motor feels a drag force of 10. But as
soon as the alternator seizes up, all hell breaks loose and the drive just stops and can burn up.

So the work has nothing to do with the motor or generator because one provides torque at an rpm and the other provides drag for
output. No drag, no output.

So again there is nothing in the mechanism of this patent that even comes close to maintaining torque and rpm. The inertial aspect
can only be realized when the wider gears are turning only on the axle but without any outer gear. Like the first gear is the widest
but it has that very small gear that removes any inertial possibility. Thinking that all these gears will turn in tandem and create
inertia is just great on paper but will never work in reality.

For a gearing system to be useful for OU it needs to do two things.

1) Provide increased torque.
2) Maintain original RPM under drag.

If a gearing system can do that (which is what this friend of mine is working on for years being close but not quite there yet) then and
only then can brute gear force be useful for OU and if accomplished, OU could be done using standard off the shelf motors and
generators too loop it into a free standing energy source. This would be the best OU device or Level 1 since it requires no special
electronics, no hyper-special mechanisms, no new coiling topologies, less chance of runaway conditions, low enough tech to
spread around the World, etc. The only real reason I am still sticking with my friend is that he has displayed the power of thinking
out of the box which I thrive on these days, he respects the drag of the generator and takes it seriously, he understands the
relational challenge of force, torque, rpm and drag plus his devotion to his cause is just monumental where I know that weather
he succeeds or not, God will favor him in the next life because of his honest intent, plus for me, weather an experiment works or
fails, we always learn something.

But such gearing cannot be accomplished by playing with gear ratios only considered on the exterior rim of the gear to gear
coupling. It required gears in the internal radius of the gears to accomplish several things at the same time and this is the
complexity of such a task.

If my friend was open to open sourcing, I would have posted photos by now but right now he wants me to work with him on closed
door basis which I have to respect. I provide, modify and maintain the looping setup which is basically a 2000 watt inverter that
feeds 110vac to a Variac (for slow start) that feeds to a drive motor, that runs a gear system that turns an alternator with an
internal regulator that charges a car battery that then feeds back to the inverter. We meet every Sunday (not today) to do more
tests. Maybe in a few more months.

Our plan, if this is successful is to solve two of the most deadly problems any OUer will come across if they should develop an OU
system. Those are open disclosure and replication. Anyone can disclose an OU device but not everyone can replicate it. So our
plan is simple. Once the gear works, we will get angel funding to produce a minimum of 300 units, all tested to work as the
original. Only once these are in stock and ready to ship, we will then disclose the device and also explain and show and teach
exactly how it works while offering a test unit to those interested, be they in academia, corporate or private or military. So once
the device is disclosed and shown how it works, there is no point in trying to stop us since the word is already out. Then with the
300 minimum available units, the problem of replication will also be solved so the technique can be learned and experienced first
hand by many all at the same time, so again there is no point in trying to stop this.

According to all the pitfalls we have seen in the past with other inventors, I feel this method of disclosure is the only way for any
future device to make its mark, otherwise, you can disclose anything but if others cannot replicate it, the idea dies a quick death
and all is for not. This is the mistake most all past inventors have made. They want to control every aspect of their device because
they want money, money, money. But that never works. Any OU device, if you give it to only one company will make an enemy
of everyone else. Better you give out the device disclosure for free to the World at large, provide working units, and then let the
World figure it out. Corporations and other interests will test it, they can hire you to perfect one for their particular needs and you
will still be in demand but now, instead of having the World against you for keeping it a secret, the World will now be your friend
because you show no favorites. You can still sign development deals with big clients for a fee and a royalty, your name will still
be entered into the OU hall of fame, you may even win a Nobel Prize, be invited around the World to speak at conferences and all
in all, everywhere you go and in any country you will be well received and well taken care of. You just need to trust in mans
better instincts and this is only possible if you employ what I call "Anti-Business" tactics. Whatever normal businesses do to
market their widgets, you need to do the opposite because the economy is not "geared" to attack you under Anti-Business only
under normal business.

You see under normal business, people will tell you to first patent the product. But doing that will disclose the device to the
most controlled part of pre-business, and, right there, they can come and tell you "Sorry but your device is held under National
Security". You have no multiple devices in stock so your idea is quashed and the irony is you paid for it by requesting a patent.
So the protection the patent is supposed to afford you in the OU case will be the reason to stop you and you stepped up to their
plate yourself thinking this is how to do business. BIG MISTAKE. hahaha.

The other part of bad business is seeking investors. Seeking angel money and seeking investors is not the same thing. The
angel investors will look to put money on things that will HELP humanity without seeking control, return on investment or any
other form of financial reimbursement. The money investor however wants control over the product, over you, over how it is
marketed, over how the profits are shared, in essence, once you get your first money investor, your freedom to act is very
limited. And again this never works because the need to keep the workings a secret is compounded by the investors "right
to a return on their investment", which in our days has become far more important then the lives such a device could save
in our World. Business has perverted the aspect of humanity comes first to become, the buck is prime.

The other possible reason for such OU patents is what I call a fake OU system or a "leach" patent. Leach as in sucking people in.
You work you ass off for years trying to invent something that never worked. You decide that all those years cannot go in vain so
you decide to patent and give the the most plausible functional description possible. WHY? So that others who may take this
patent and work it to really work so that one day it may provide a source of patent infringement revenue. The other reason is
to make the patent knowing it does not work, get investors to put money and just say to them, we still need to "iron out" a
few bugs. The investor, being already sucked into the game will not hesitate to invest more, foaming at the mouth dreaming of
the billions it will bring in once working. But the working part never happens.

Sorry for long post.

wattsup

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: motor gear inertia generator -new help
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2017, 02:50:37 PM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: motor gear inertia generator -new help
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2017, 01:23:36 AM »
Technically, the First patented (or earlier dated patent application)
Owns ALL QuMogen Technology


The rest have infringed.


Personally I do not see how any of them can work as presented
Without internal motor modifications
Or an applied external magnetic field onto the motor.


But even then you are just trading apples for oranges.
You are better off using the electricity you started with and toss that
Contraption, or use it as a drive motor to do something useful...




Offline sm0ky2

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Re: motor gear inertia generator -new help
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2017, 01:30:55 AM »
Under the one operatable mode it has:


The generator only acts as a smaller secondary power output.
In the manner we use a power-bus. (just crude and inefficient)


Looping back to itself would probably wind down harshly
as drive-current would drop along an exponential curve.
the motor trying to draw an increasing amount of current as current drops
fighting friction
and the generator resisting the current draw by generating its own field.
and slowing the system down further.


But a load applied that was much less than the drive motor, could function


Offline justawatt

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Re: motor gear inertia generator -new help
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2017, 08:47:15 PM »
hi

i have asked " Mario Gudec"  to make a 3d model video explaining how it would work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9vmfLlnVNo

 

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