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Author Topic: The secret to Overunity  (Read 32053 times)

Offline Tajerek

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The secret to Overunity
« on: December 17, 2017, 01:40:33 PM »
The energy stored in a capacitor is a function of the voltage across it and the capacitance.

http://www.calctool.org/CALC/eng/electronics/capacitor_energy.png

Stepping up the voltage to any desired high value is very easy to do with the use of a high voltage module. Example is a flyback transformer. This means large amount of energy W can be created and stored inside a capacitor from any source of small input voltage and current. The time it takes to create this energy is calculated as 5 *RC, while RC being the time constant.

http://www.learnabout-electronics.org/ac_theory/images/Fig-4-3-1.jpg

We have to select low ESB capacitor if we want to rapidly create this energy with a rate of hundreds of thousands of times each second.
I propose to dump this energy directly into an inductor after each recharge. When the LC tank circuit is in resonance the entirety of the capacitor energy is transferred to the inductor and stored in its magnetic field. The equation of this energy is
http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/302l/lectures/img1085.png

This means the previous electric energy is now to magnetic and thereby yielding desired amperage. Again the amount of amperage across the inductor does not depend on the source dipole at all.

The third stage of this energy creation is to direct this useful amperage we created across the inductor towards a load. I propose to do this by the use of coupled inductors. The set up is similar to a flyback converter circuit where the primary inductor stores the energy in the magnetic field then the secondary inductor releases it into the load, this insures the isolation from the high voltage side to the lower voltage high amperage side.

http://oi64.tinypic.com/ejv8mo.jpg


The winding ratio and the wire gauge used in the coupled inductor can be adjusted so to output the desired voltage and amperage.
The final circuit is the following:

http://oi66.tinypic.com/9a0eb8.jpg

The spark gap can be replaced with any switching mechanism, such as transistor, high voltage power Mosphet, mechanical relays, opto-coupler…etc The most important is to match resonant frequency of the LC to guarantee at each cycle the energy gets fully transferred from the electric field of the capacitor C1 to the magnetic field of the inductor L1. Then released by L2 in the form of current out to the load and output capacitor C2. I leave it up to the savvy experimenters to design the proper switching and ways of tuning the frequency.
As explained in the beginning, this quantity of energy W fed into the load is not by any means proportionally related to the input source since we can step up the voltage to any value and increase the energy. I confidently state that Overunity is scientifically proved by the calculations.
The generated energy is only a function of the components used and their proper tuning and relation to each other.
I will conclude by an insightful quote of Mr Nikola Tesla in support of my above claims:

Quote
Most of the results enumerated, and many others still more remarkable, are made possible only by utilizing the discharges of a condenser.  It is probable that but a very few--even among those who are working in these identical fields--fully appreciate what a wonderful instrument such a condenser is in reality.  Let me convey an idea to this effect.  One may take a condenser, small enough to go in one's vest pocket, and by skillfully using it he may create an electrical pressure vastly in excess--a hundred times greater if necessary--than any producible by the largest static machine ever constructed.  Or, he may take the same condenser and, using it in a different way, he may obtain from it currents against which those of the most powerful welding machine are utterly insignificant.  Those who are imbued with popular notions as to the pressures of static machines and currents obtainable with a commercial transformer, will be astonished at this statement--yet the truth of it is easy to see.  Such results are obtainable, and easily, because the condenser can discharge the stored energy in an inconceivably short time.  Nothing like this property is known in physical science.  A compressed spring, or a storage battery, or any other form of device capable of storing energy, cannot do this; if they could, things undreamt of at present might be accomplished by their means.  The nearest approach to a charged condenser is a high explosive, as dynamite.  But even the most violent explosion of such a compound bears no comparison with the discharge or explosion of a condenser.  For, while the pressures which are produced in the detonation of a chemical compound are measured in tens of tons per square inch, those which may be caused by condenser discharges may amount to thousands of tons per square inch, and if a chemical could be made which would explode as quickly as a condenser can be discharged under conditions which are realizable--an ounce of it would quite certainly be sufficient to render useless the largest battleship.
That important realizations would follow from the use of an instrument possessing such ideal properties I have been convinced since long ago, but I also recognized early that great difficulties would have to be overcome before it could replace less perfect implements now used in the arts for the manifold transformations of electrical energy.  These difficulties were many.  The condensers themselves, as usually manufactured, were inefficient, the conductors wasteful, the best insulation inadequate, and the conditions for the most efficient conversion were hard to adjust and to maintain.  One difficulty, however, which was more serious than the others, and to which I called attention when I first described this system of energy transformation, was found in the devices necessarily used for controlling the charges and discharges of the condenser.

Source:
HIGH FREQUENCY OSCILLATORS FOR ELECTRO-THERAPEUTIC AND OTHER PURPOSES
by Nikola Tesla
The Electrical Engineer.
Vol. XXVI.
November 17, 1898. No. 550





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The secret to Overunity
« on: December 17, 2017, 01:40:33 PM »

Offline citfta

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Re: The secret to Overunity
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2017, 10:12:08 PM »
Higher voltage does NOT mean higher energy.  Another rookie mistake.  Higher voltage generated by whatever means always means lower current.  The total energy is actually less because of resistance losses.

Offline Tajerek

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Re: The secret to Overunity
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2017, 10:51:19 PM »
Higher voltage does NOT mean higher energy.  Another rookie mistake.  Higher voltage generated by whatever means always means lower current.  The total energy is actually less because of resistance losses.
Higher voltage doesn't mean higher power because P=U*I . And voltage is stepped up the current is reduced to conserve same overall power of less.

BUT I am not talking about that energy. What I am talking about is higher voltage means HIGHER ELECTRIC ENERGY STORED INSIDE THE ELECTRIC FIELD OF A CAPACITOR. It is energy that does not depend on the current my friend and amounts to 1/2 *C*V squared. Check the first formula in my previous post.


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Re: The secret to Overunity
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2017, 10:51:19 PM »
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Offline Belfior

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Re: The secret to Overunity
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2017, 11:08:06 PM »
replying to citfta

True, but if you HV through a resonating coils system the rewards are much bigger.

Also a load behind a cap (and in my mind also the secondary of a ferrite transformer) do not know how much amps were used to charge it. Just how much voltage (or flux created by voltage) there was.

Just put a steel ring over your tesla coil and then discharge a cap to that coil. Use a 1000V 60mA source to charge the cap and then a 10A 1000V source. Does the ring jump higher with the 10A source?

Offline Void

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Re: The secret to Overunity
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2017, 11:08:26 PM »
Higher voltage doesn't mean higher power because P=U*I . And voltage is stepped up the current is reduced to conserve same overall power of less.

BUT I am not talking about that energy. What I am talking about is higher voltage means HIGHER ELECTRIC ENERGY STORED INSIDE THE ELECTRIC FIELD OF A CAPACITOR. It is energy that does not depend on the current my friend and amounts to 1/2 *C*V squared. Check the first formula in my previous post.

Hi Tajerek. Unfortunately voltage alone does not cause a capacitor to become charged,
it takes current (flow of charge) to charge up a capacitor, which takes time (as indicated by
the RC time constant). Discharging a cap into a resonant tank circuit also does not (under normal
conditions) provide any more energy than what was stored in the capacitor. In order to achieve OU,
something very out of the ordinary will have to be going on, otherwise it should be easy to achieve OU,
but it seems it is not so easy at all to achieve OU. What do you think is very unusual about what
you are describing that will cause excess energy to be drawn into the setup you have described?

All the best...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The secret to Overunity
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2017, 11:08:26 PM »
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Offline Tajerek

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Re: The secret to Overunity
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2017, 11:42:09 PM »
Hi Tajerek. Unfortunately voltage alone does not cause a capacitor to become charged,
it takes current (flow of charge) to charge up a capacitor, which takes time (as indicated by
the RC time constant). Discharging a cap into a resonant tank circuit also does not (under normal
conditions) provide any more energy than what was stored in the capacitor. In order to achieve OU,
something very out of the ordinary will have to be going on, otherwise it should be easy to achieve OU,
but it seems it is not so easy at all to achieve OU. What do you think is very unusual about what
you are describing that will cause excess energy to be drawn into the setup you have described?

All the best...
the HV source will of course have current but you don't need significant current to push charge into a low ESR high voltage capacitor. If you have doubts try it for yourself. And the time it takes for full recharge is 5*RC time constant which is doesn't depend on current either its formula speaks for itself. It is only function of the resistance and capacitance.

As example 3kv cap of 1uF with ESR of 0.3 ohm can store 4.5 joules in 0.000000015 s. This technically means you can charge it and recharge it 333k times per second. with a frequency up to 333khz. The time can be made shorter still by increasing voltage beyond the rating of the capacitor.

I do not discharge the cap into a resonating tank circuit as you stated, but I discharge it into inductor forming together the tank circuit only during discharge then the circuit is opened to recharge the cap again.

Offline Void

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Re: The secret to Overunity
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2017, 11:59:00 PM »
the HV source will of course have current but you don't need significant current to push charge into a low ESR high voltage capacitor. If you have doubts try it for yourself. And the time it takes for full recharge is 5*RC time constant which is doesn't depend on current either its formula speaks for itself. It is only function of the resistance and capacitance.

As example 3kv cap of 1uF with ESR of 0.3 ohm can store 4.5 joules in 0.000000015 s. This technically means you can charge it and recharge it 333k times per second. with a frequency up to 333khz. The time can be made shorter still by increasing voltage beyond the rating of the capacitor.

I do not discharge the cap into a resonating tank circuit as you stated, but I discharge it into inductor forming together the tank circuit only during discharge then the circuit is opened to recharge the cap again.

Sorry but that is false. Whether a capacitor has a low ESR or not it still takes a flow of charge
to charge up the capacitor. This voltage times current means an expenditure of energy over time to charge
the capacitor, again regardless of the ESR of the capacitor. Just because a capacitor may charge
more quickly, it doesn't at all mean it takes less energy to charge the capacitor than the capacitor stores. 

When the capacitor is connected across the inductor it forms a tank circuit. The energy that was stored in
the capacitor excites this tank circuit. :) This is a tank circuit. Whether a separate cap is used to form the
tank circuit is neither here nor there. Sorry, I don't see anything in your described setup that should
be doing anything out of the ordinary, and you haven't described anything so far that appears to be
out of the ordinary. You named this thread 'The secret to Overunity' but I see nothing out of the
ordinary with what you have described so far. Do you have a test setup that you think demonstrates anything
out of the ordinary going on?

All the best...



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The secret to Overunity
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2017, 11:59:00 PM »
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Offline Tajerek

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Re: The secret to Overunity
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2017, 12:33:51 AM »
Sorry but that is false. Whether a capacitor has a low ESR or not it still takes a flow of charge
to charge up the capacitor.

the current when charging capacitor is not as the current across a resistive load.

The formula for finding the current while charging a capacitor is:

I=C*dV/dt

it is nothing more than the change of voltage over time. It is not related to the current of the source as much as the voltage.

take 9v source across a 3kv cap you will generate 0.0000405 joules in a time constant. Step up the same voltage to 10kv and put it across the same cap you will generate 5 joules in fraction of the time constant. You stored more energy but the power source is the same...that's the secret

Offline citfta

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Re: The secret to Overunity
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2017, 12:46:18 AM »
Tajerek,

What you are proposing is very similar to the claims made by Don Smith.  In fact your circuit looks like a copy of one of Don Smith's circuits.  You should know that literally hundreds of people have tried to get at least one of his circuits to work like he claimed.  None of them to my knowledge have ever succeeded.

He made almost exactly the same claims as you.  You charge a cap with high voltage and then discharge it and somehow get extra energy.  There is no known way that discharging a cap will get any more power than was put into the cap.  That is a fact.

You need to actually build something and then prove it to yourself.  No amount of claims will convince most of us with real experience that you have discovered the secret of overunity until you can actually demonstrate it with a working circuit.  And copying Don Smith's work is not going to get you there.

Respectfully,
Carroll

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The secret to Overunity
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2017, 12:46:18 AM »
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Offline Tajerek

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Re: The secret to Overunity
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2017, 01:02:40 AM »
There is no known way that discharging a cap will get any more power than was put into the cap.  That is a fact.

That's correct, I am not claiming to generate more than what the cap can store in one cycle, however what is in the cap is not directly related to how much you draw from the source. It is function of the voltage you put across the cap , the combined resistance R and C. Small current is only needed to get the charges across the combined resistance of the circuit, if that's small enough you literally need just voltage.

Don smith showed the devices, I am showing the formulas that prove it and therefore the ways to replicate it scientifically. Don didn't explain the theory and science behind his devices that's probably experimenters were guessing to replicate it. Also I don't think his aircore inductors were as efficient.


Offline forest

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Re: The secret to Overunity
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2017, 01:32:33 AM »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The secret to Overunity
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2017, 01:32:33 AM »
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Offline forest

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Re: The secret to Overunity
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2017, 01:33:52 AM »
understanding what he would have said: that after the deed is done, everybody knows how to do it; [/font][/size]

Offline Void

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Re: The secret to Overunity
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2017, 01:47:09 AM »
the current when charging capacitor is not as the current across a resistive load.

The formula for finding the current while charging a capacitor is:

I=C*dV/dt

it is nothing more than the change of voltage over time. It is not related to the current of the source as much as the voltage.

take 9v source across a 3kv cap you will generate 0.0000405 joules in a time constant. Step up the same voltage to 10kv and put it across the same cap you will generate 5 joules in fraction of the time constant. You stored more energy but the power source is the same...that's the secret

Hi Tajerek. Again, a capacitor's voltage changes due to a change in charge distribution from one capacitor plate to the other.
Current is a flow of charges. It takes voltage (a potential difference) to cause the charge to move, yes, but this movement
of charge occurs at the expense of energy. It doesn't happen for 'free'.  Voltage times current means energy expended over time.
If there is no current flow between the plates of a capacitor then absolutely the capacitor won't charge up.

I'll say it again. Something very unusual would have to be happening for a system to gain more energy than is being
expended at the input of the circuit. I don't see anything unusual in what you have described so far.


All the best...


Offline citfta

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Re: The secret to Overunity
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2017, 01:50:44 AM »
That's correct, I am not claiming to generate more than what the cap can store in one cycle, however what is in the cap is not directly related to how much you draw from the source. It is function of the voltage you put across the cap , the combined resistance R and C. Small current is only needed to get the charges across the combined resistance of the circuit, if that's small enough you literally need just voltage.

Don smith showed the devices, I am showing the formulas that prove it and therefore the ways to replicate it scientifically. Don didn't explain the theory and science behind his devices that's probably experimenters were guessing to replicate it. Also I don't think his aircore inductors were as efficient.

That statement I highlighted is absolutely wrong.  Anyone with the most basic understanding of electronics can see the error of that statement.  What you are saying is the amount of water in a glass has nothing to do with the amount of water that ran from the faucet.

Offline Tajerek

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Re: The secret to Overunity
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2017, 01:57:57 AM »
understanding what he would have said: that after the deed is done, everybody knows how to do it; [/font][/size]

If you think I am doing a copy of Don Smith device you are mistaken. I do not use CW and CCW coil like he does, my spark gap is not between the HW module and the cap, I do not use aircore but magnetic cores made of a ferromagnetic material able to store all the energy from the cap. I do not use radio transmission and any relation between length of wires like Don... maybe Don knew but hid the theory or didn't reveal everything on purpose.
What I am saying is easily provable by known scientific formulas and no able scientist can deny such scientific facts.

 

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