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Author Topic: Confirmation of OU devices and claims  (Read 116810 times)

Offline NickZ

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1155 on: July 12, 2019, 05:08:02 PM »
Nick,
I'm not following you. You have this or are asking what size coils do you need to have to do this? Not sure if you mean the same thing here with the words secondary coil and receiver coils.
A full circuit with proper loading is found in the rectenna technology. These will have proper impedance matching and frequency conversion to run DC loads. That is mainstream science already. All of the setups so far, like Itsu's or mine have not used proper or efficient filtering. We are only using a fraction of the actual energy that could be used because the capacitors, diodes, and/or loads are not meant for RF. So everything after the receiver coil (and in a way the coil itself) is already given in the rectenna tech. So that is what you would do. Just consider the many patents on the subject. The thing to examine is the gains in a resonance tank circuit, and it's effects on the local environment that can benefit from such gains and radiation. You are wanting a loop system, and that is fine. I'm just pointing to the easiest way for you to do that.

   
   Rick:  Thanks for the reply. Yes, I have that, which I mentioned. It just so happens that the secondary of Tesla coil is tuned to the 1.2MHz frequency. It's frequency can be controlled to a certain point, by adding or removing coils on the secondary, (or by connecting to different taps along the secondary). Or by inserting ferrite into the Tesla secondary coil. It's output is dependent on the input power, but normally it's around 4 to 6000v. My question was about the specs on the receiving coils, and what is needed there.
   Dr. Stiffler was doing many different tests along the same or similar lines. And itsu, Gyula, and of our other guys here were also  involved in, long with myself. To see if the Doc's dying secret, the "diode loop", would provide for higher efficiency in lighting 120v AC 12w led bulbs. I followed and replicated some his efforts until his death. The diode loop was a very interested project. And somewhat similar with what's going on here. One important point though, the Doc found that at 13.6MHz there is a signal from the planet, (or atmosphere) that can be tapped into, so that was where he tuned his circuits to. However, that particular non man made signal may be something specific to his location, and may vary from place to place, or not, that part was not verified.
   Anyway, I still don't know just exactly what circuit is used on this project. And still need a more specific schematic, if there is one.
   I do have a 2MHz SG, Scope, multimeters, 12v batteries etz... So I'm ready to play ball...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1155 on: July 12, 2019, 05:08:02 PM »

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1156 on: July 12, 2019, 05:17:42 PM »


https://overunity.com/17186/the-bifilar-pancake-coil-at-its-resonant-frequency/msg534659/#new
Pease note the circuit was designed by Nelson Rocha. and works very well.
Hi AlienGrey,

Thanks for the answer, will try to digest evostars's video(s) on the schematic later.  Back then he dealt with it I did not
follow his activity. I know that the circuit originates from Nelson. 
I would have questions on that circuit: your notice of "it works very well" means exactly what? 
And is the output power taken from L3C4 parallel circuit? 

Gyula

Offline partzman

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1157 on: July 12, 2019, 06:19:33 PM »
P,
I appreciate your suggestion. I'll make a few points as a response:

1. While it is true that LABs are really more complicated that people realize, it is also true that people can experience free energy with them without really knowing all the details mentioned. You guys are only after one kind of system that is self-running. That is fine, but you need to appreciate first something less than that, that is very easy. A claim that is easier to verify is a fan charging another battery while it is running. All the energy is used up in the Kirchhoff loop and the excess is free energy. I know that is old news, but skeptics don't want to admit that.

2. Yes I know many ways to do OU but I will not get into most of them because such are either not practical for one or more reasons or they will get people into trouble. What you are suggesting is a non-battery system, and that crosses a line. I suppose if you added enough parts to make it big, complicated, and expensive then that may be fine. But small simple systems like that are not allowed for the general public. This would be me taking one of the AC motors I just showed in this video: https://youtu.be/2amFnvh9zqg  and making them run themselves (which is easy enough to do when you understand how this energy works). There are thousands of these running all around the world. But no one will ever sell them to the general public. All I'll say is that if you rewire it inside and add three of the right capacitors then you can do that. I've been in many trades over the years and grew up hearing stories about people doing that. These are rumors all over the US and Canada and elsewhere. But they are real. I don't expect anyone to believe that.

3. The thing that everyone has to realize is that the input battery is part of the system. Some of the energy goes back to the input battery. That is why using a power supply does not give the same results. I can't really get into that in a few words here, but there are several important reasons why a battery is necessary in the energizer setups. Now I'm explaining how to have such a battery just stay charged. You can either do the two or three battery bank setups where the batteries can be rotated or just remain charged. I decided a few years back to show both of these. I got in enough trouble for doing that. That is good enough for anyone to provide all of their electrical needs. But to remove the batteries is an entirely different system.

4. What I show at my meetings is more important than that because it shows you how to multiply the output as many times as you want.

RF,

Respectively, you are correct.  The test I proposed does cross a line and a very important one at that!  It is the line of TRUE OU.  On one side we have everything that is conservative that is, COP<1 and on the other side is the undeniable proof of COP>1.

When you incorporate multiple batteries in your work, this opens up the possibility of many incorrect assumptions and calculations to appear and thus raises question of the validity of any OU claims made.

If you truly are producing OU, then your device should be able to bootstrap charge a battery or capacitor totally by itself.  If not, then it is not OU.  It really is that simple because then nothing then depends on analysis, only the results.

Regards,
Pm




Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1157 on: July 12, 2019, 06:19:33 PM »
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Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1158 on: July 12, 2019, 07:00:07 PM »
Hi AlienGrey,

Thanks for the answer, will try to digest evostars's video(s) on the schematic later.  Back then he dealt with it I did not
follow his activity. I know that the circuit originates from Nelson. 
I would have questions on that circuit: your notice of "it works very well" means exactly what? 
And is the output power taken from L3C4 parallel circuit?

Gyula
Well yes, but you would have to stick very rigidly to it's construction guide lines  the two video's are on you tube,
I have chatted with Nelson but the original was some what different and smaller than ''master ivo's'' version. I only made the device as far as L1 and L2 goes it can more or less instantly charge a 2.2uf cap (2x 4.7uf 350v) instantaneously to over 500 volts and is lethal.  AG
ps
But I suggest if you want any further details you really should contact Nelson, him self as he is the man!
AG

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Online rickfriedrich

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1159 on: July 12, 2019, 07:10:56 PM »
Yeah, it really depends on what you are wanting to do. I think there is some mad rush to try and prove something out in five minutes, and that if you can't do that then it's assumed you have nothing. Obviously a system without a battery would show that but batteries take some time to know. There are a lot of mistakes people make as we have talked about already. The 4AH battery, as someone mentioned, is easier to see things faster, but it is also a bottleneck because of its size. We are not merely dealing with the inverse Peukerts law in this respect. When I went from charging a 12AH 12V battery to charging a 48V bank of 2000AH batteries I got a COP of over 200 and over 200 times the charging energy over the smaller battery while the input and motor stayed the same. Obviously that is not relating to Peukerts law. Even though that is amazing, it still was not a practical use of such a big bank. It is more practical to charge them faster with much less COP.

Like I said, it depends on what you want to do. You guys are still trying to experience OU whereas many people already have that experience and just want to improve upon their options. So it is more about what you specifically want to do with particular loads than merely trying to prove OU these days. Some people just want free air flow so they will do a fan. Others want a motor for an electric vehicle. Others want generators for electricity.

The batteries need to be considered as a unique collector negative resistor. The size will determine the amount of energy collection just like the Heaviside capacitive collection system Don Smith patented. Now lithium take advantage of a different benefit, and that is low esr. They will respond faster and will give better results than LABs of similar capacity ratings.

What I do in the meetings to show instantly the output is take my little window motor and run it at a few hundred ma at 12V and show various bulbs light up while with or without charging another battery. So you have the energy being used to run the motor, just like the fan, and now you can see the 100W module light up and even get hot. Even if it is the same amount of power as the input, you then have double the energy seen right away. This is good for basic tuning so that you don't have to make very long observations on the effects of charging batteries. Of course these loads are different, but at least it gives you a fair estimation of the amount of excess energy. The reason I like the fan demo is because the CFMs can be shown to be the same with or without the load on the reactive loop. So whatever is done on that loop is free energy. It is above or over unity without any self-loop. OU is not self-running, these are different ideas. It is extra loading that was thought to be impossible. It is a non-conservative experience. It does show that saying Kirchhoff is a universal is for the birds. Kirchhoff is only relating to steady state closed loops and has nothing to do with the gains from loosely associated reactive loops with their loads.

LEDs can be personally measured and compared with light meters, etc. You can't do much with video. But you can when it is really obvious. If you have a 100W module very bright and hot to the touch, but the input battery stays the same for an hour then it is obvious without a light meter, etc. I may have some other video of other meetings we did in Germany where we did hook up the scope to that box (as shown in the picture). There were skeptics at that meeting that did bring their equipment and measured it.

Rick,
Thanks for your reply ref measuring battery capacity. So, it becomes very difficult indeed to determine a system COP when loads are just a small fraction of a batteries rated A/hr (inverse Peukerts Law). Therefore, for example, how to determine how long a given number of constant current fed very low power LED lamps running as a load on a system powered from a say a 12A/hr, 20A/hr or 40A/hr LA source battery should stay illuminated in order to declare the DUT is running OU.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1159 on: July 12, 2019, 07:10:56 PM »
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Online rickfriedrich

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1160 on: July 12, 2019, 07:17:42 PM »
AG,
That is very true. So when you can rotate batteries around then what does that mean about how much energy has to be produced?

Hoppy, does LA have a double meaning when dealing with LA batteries ie Losey Accumulators as 50% in charging is lost so bang goes your theory !  you need a less losey way to store the energy!

Online rickfriedrich

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1161 on: July 12, 2019, 07:36:38 PM »
If you were following what I have been saying over the last 3 weeks you would see that I agree with that. I do not try and prove anything with a video. But this means that you cannot disprove anything with a video as well.
The big difference with your setup and mine is that you were using 300ma to power three tiny leds and I was using 60 and 80ma powering 90 LEDs and also that I could have easily 500. I also had witnesses who are actually reading this forum right now. But again, you can't prove anything over the internet, which is what I titled the video showing this.

I just asked one question.

But I'm sure the readers here will note that almost everything you say about my demonstration also applies to yours.


Is this system OU?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNzbc-N-e9c

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1161 on: July 12, 2019, 07:36:38 PM »
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Offline Hoppy

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1162 on: July 12, 2019, 07:41:54 PM »

Like I said, it depends on what you want to do. You guys are still trying to experience OU whereas many people already have that experience and just want to improve upon their options. So it is more about what you specifically want to do with particular loads than merely trying to prove OU these days. Some people just want free air flow so they will do a fan. Others want a motor for an electric vehicle. Others want generators for electricity.

Thanks again Rick for your detailed reply. However, it has not really explained how, that if I was a student of yours, how you could satisfy me that a given system of yours was running OU, given battery vagaries we have discussed. As an example, take a multiple coil and LED system like demonstrated in the video you posted and assume that I just want to experience an OU demo from you as my tutor. Also, assume that I'm not a complete rookie and that I have a good conventional grounding in electrical principles and measurement. Take me through the stages you would take to demonstrate an OU system to me at the bench so to speak, not by video.

Offline Void

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1163 on: July 12, 2019, 08:20:18 PM »
Lead acid batteries in good condition are generally taken to have a charge and discharge efficiency of roughly around 85%,
but could be as low as 50% efficiency or possibly even lower depending on the exact Lead Acid battery type and the battery
condition. However, if a claimed OU circuit setup has a COP of say >= 2, then you should be able to self-loop
and completely do away with any battery at the input. You may be able to do that with an even lower COP.
If the battery is claimed to be an essential part of the OU setup, then you should still be able to self-loop
as long as you leave the circuit running in self-looped mode for a reasonable length of time in comparison to
the battery capacity.

Overall very straightforward. Some people avoid such straightforward test setups for obvious reasons however. They prefer
hand waving and rationalizations and excuses and incomplete and/or improper or at least questionable measurements and
assumptions to try to help further their cause. ;)

Second law of OU circuit testing:
If a person refuses to put in an effort to self-loop a circuit setup under test in a reasonable way, which they are claiming is OU,
which should be quite straightforward and easy to do in most cases, then chances are very high they are just blowing smoke. 


Is that too honest? :)


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1163 on: July 12, 2019, 08:20:18 PM »
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Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1165 on: July 12, 2019, 10:03:57 PM »
AG,
That is very true. So when you can rotate batteries around then what does that mean about how much energy has to be produced?
I have no experience in battery shuffling. I have in my case some solar panels charged with an FET controlled charger and i only have the one battery and it doesn't like it and at over 140 Euros each time I think I will be buying Ni or a high farad capacitor battery bank next time round.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1165 on: July 12, 2019, 10:03:57 PM »
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Online rickfriedrich

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1166 on: July 12, 2019, 10:10:57 PM »
That's a good point Nick. I'll remember that. I guess that video was pointless then.
But I don't think so. Meters have their place and can show many valuable things. However, always remember that what you put in is what you will get out, and I'm referring to energy here, but assumptions. The meter is made to do something specific and does not notice everything.
Any readings can be wrong

Offline Void

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1167 on: July 12, 2019, 10:59:31 PM »
For anyone who cares at all about reality, here is a recap of the essentials in OU circuit testing.
These laws were derived from many years of practical experience and have been proven many times over to be true and immutable laws.

First law of 'over unity' circuit testing:
If you haven't tested your circuit arrangement using a self-looping arrangement and left it to run for a reasonable
length of time (depends on power source being used and total power consumption), then you are not in any sort
of reasonable position to attempt to draw any definite conclusions about the circuit COP (i.e., the supposition of COP > 1).

Second law of 'over unity' circuit testing:
If a person refuses to put in an effort to self-loop a circuit setup under test in a reasonable way, which they are claiming is OU,
which should be quite straightforward and easy to do in most cases, then chances are very high they are just blowing smoke. 

Third Law of 'over unity' circuit testing:
Ignore the above two laws at your own peril. All else is folly.



Offline a.king21

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1168 on: July 12, 2019, 11:32:55 PM »
A.king21,

You are joking again,  right?    Cold electricity is like the holy grail in free energy and you can't
remember the circuit but you asked me to "check it out"?:
https://overunity.com/17491/confirmation-of-ou-devices-and-claims/msg536322/#msg536322

Itsu
Your comment to me on another forum is insulting.  I don't need to prove cold electricity to you or anyone else. This is for each person to determine for themselves. It was a DSE circuit.

Offline Void

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1169 on: July 13, 2019, 12:19:46 AM »
I for one would love to see a reasonable demonstration of 'cold electricity' or 'negative electricity'.
I can't say I have ever seen a demonstration of such concepts which looks reasonable to me, but I have an open mind.
Nothing would be more cool (no pun intended) than to be able to power a load without depleting the power source and while the circuitry and
load remains cold or gets colder or forms frost as the circuit operates, and I am not talking about a refrigeration type circuit.  ;-)


 

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