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Author Topic: Confirmation of OU devices and claims  (Read 110115 times)

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1140 on: July 12, 2019, 07:31:39 AM »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1140 on: July 12, 2019, 07:31:39 AM »

Offline rickfriedrich

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1141 on: July 12, 2019, 08:06:22 AM »
You have to define what the system is and justify every part of it in relation to your goal. You are making several assumptions here. Obviously your load is very limited. There is not enough detail to understand what you are doing there. You can't determine what the lighting is from the video. But if you are powering only 3 LEDs at 300ma then obviously that is not impressive. Maybe you were just trying to disprove the QEG? Would that even be that hard to do?

I guess I'm wondering your point in bringing up this old video from 3 years back. Are you trying to prove something with this video and all your numbers? I fail to see some of the points being made. One of the things that cannot be determined from such a video is if you are making your setup properly for your goal. And are you suggesting that your load was all that could be run from that? That is implied in the video.

Is this system OU?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCdrAE_IZ74

Offline Hoppy

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1142 on: July 12, 2019, 10:52:41 AM »
Rick,
Thanks for your reply ref measuring battery capacity. So, it becomes very difficult indeed to determine a system COP when loads are just a small fraction of a batteries rated A/hr (inverse Peukerts Law). Therefore, for example, how to determine how long a given number of constant current fed very low power LED lamps running as a load on a system powered from a say a 12A/hr, 20A/hr or 40A/hr LA source battery should stay illuminated in order to declare the DUT is running OU.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1142 on: July 12, 2019, 10:52:41 AM »
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Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1143 on: July 12, 2019, 12:21:56 PM »
Rick,
Thanks for your reply ref measuring battery capacity. So, it becomes very difficult indeed to determine a system COP when loads are just a small fraction of a batteries rated A/hr (inverse Peukerts Law). Therefore, for example, how to determine how long a given number of constant current fed very low power LED lamps running as a load on a system powered from a say a 12A/hr, 20A/hr or 40A/hr LA source battery should stay illuminated in order to declare the DUT is running OU.
Hoppy, does LA have a double meaning when dealing with LA batteries ie Losey Accumulators as 50% in charging is lost so bang goes your theory !  you need a less losey way to store the energy!

Offline itsu

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1144 on: July 12, 2019, 12:39:28 PM »
G:  I would prefer it if you would direct your technical questions to Rick. I do not have a permanent lab at my disposal and Rick is far better placed to answer your questions. My valuable time is spent verifying what I need to move on with other experiments. If you choose to disbelieve me that is absolutely fine and i will concede that you know better.
Itsu:  I can't remember the cold electricity circuit and it is not important to me if anyone verifies it or believes it.

A.king21,

You are joking again,  right?    Cold electricity is like the holy grail in free energy and you can't
remember the circuit but you asked me to "check it out"?:
https://overunity.com/17491/confirmation-of-ou-devices-and-claims/msg536322/#msg536322

Itsu

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1144 on: July 12, 2019, 12:39:28 PM »
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Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1145 on: July 12, 2019, 12:41:31 PM »
Void,
And that is the question. What is really happening in the near field. We don't even have a quarter wave length of distance. And yet quarter wavelength relationships really matter in the near field. We have both capacitive and magnetic relationships here. Not just with coils but many other objects, including our bodies. A lot of radiation is measured around the transmitter, and placing 500 loaded coils around it still produces radiation beyond them. Even placing a proper secondary inside of the primary, or around it (where all the radiation passes through it, will still allow this radiation to go beyond it to other coils and beyond them. This is a matter of fact of basic observation. This is all rather involved and it is perplexing to people who want a tidy simplistic model that conforms to the presumptuous law of conservation. This is why I made the kit as I did with the sensitive LED to learn these relationships in the near field. People really don't have any experience with these things because they are either doing radio in the far field and never even think about getting anything but weak signals they are amplifying, or if they work in the near field it is with one receiver coil that has an encrypted connection (which doesn't allow for the gains we are dealing with). And actually, what I am saying here is the very near future technology that will be in all your homes with the new rectenna tech that will be together with the internet monitoring of everything (ie, internet of things). WIFI powering and interacting with everything in a Smart (actually the dumbest thing ever) existence. Your clocks and gadgets and probably everything over $1 will have it's own IP and be powered this way. Things will be far more 'efficient' in this way at a sacrifice of your privacy and the every present risk of being hacked or just things not working. Total information awareness and total dependence upon his technology for everything. This is the new currency and the next new world order...
Sounds like a conspiracy to fraudulent use of grid access and use wifi if you don't mind the risk of brain cancer.
and if you cant turn it off silver paper works wonders in blocking it if not with lead, alternatively there is always surgery or IMP.
When the Junta has no respect for peoples privacy.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 06:36:38 PM by AlienGrey »

Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1146 on: July 12, 2019, 01:10:30 PM »
Hi AlienGrey,

Yes I think he would be the same A.King like you guess.

I need to ask what you mean here on BEMF: is it the voltage spike created across a coil when its current is interrupted?  If yes, then it is okay it can be captured and it can be reused again,  though I have not seen from anyone that the this_way_captured energy provided COP > 1 performance when added to the input energy. 

But after you mentioned BEMF you continued with: "and resonance and above all the protocol" and I wonder how you mean resonance here when you grab the quantity of energy created by switching to get the BEMF ?  If this is how you meant, that is.

I would appreciate if someone would point to the video time where Don Smith shows the (almost instantaneous) rapid capacitor charge: I would like to understand how to benefit from it.

Gyula
https://overunity.com/17186/the-bifilar-pancake-coil-at-its-resonant-frequency/msg534659/#new
Pease note the circuit was designed by Nelson Rocha. and works very well.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1146 on: July 12, 2019, 01:10:30 PM »
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Offline itsu

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1147 on: July 12, 2019, 01:41:34 PM »
Is this system OU?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCdrAE_IZ74


TK,

nice demo on VAR and how people can be confused by it.

I tried similar on my big coil to see how much REAL power there is in the tank coil.

I monitor the gate driver input while the big coil is in resonance and unloaded.
The input voltage and current are 3V @ 38.2mA  (see picture) which means 114mW.

The big coil tank circuit measures 242V rms (702Vpp) @ 84.8mA rms (244.6mApp) see screenshot.

So about 80 times higher voltage and 2.2 times higer current, but with a phase shift between V and I of almost 89.8°.


The 89.8° phase shift is the party pooper here as it ruins the apparent 242 x 0.0848 = 20.5W power.

The scope calculates the real power in the tankcircuit to be around 102mW, which is close to the input power (114mW).

I use low voltage (3V) on the gate driver to not damage the current probe while measuring in the HV tank circuit.

Itsu

Offline lancaIV

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1148 on: July 12, 2019, 01:56:42 PM »
Itsu ,your example means

(Vpp xApp )/ real power : >  1000 times amplitude

From this expansion- peak how much magnetic force can become explored and gained ?

Magnetic charge

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1148 on: July 12, 2019, 01:56:42 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1149 on: July 12, 2019, 02:19:00 PM »
You have to define what the system is and justify every part of it in relation to your goal. You are making several assumptions here. Obviously your load is very limited. There is not enough detail to understand what you are doing there. You can't determine what the lighting is from the video. But if you are powering only 3 LEDs at 300ma then obviously that is not impressive. Maybe you were just trying to disprove the QEG? Would that even be that hard to do?

I guess I'm wondering your point in bringing up this old video from 3 years back. Are you trying to prove something with this video and all your numbers? I fail to see some of the points being made. One of the things that cannot be determined from such a video is if you are making your setup properly for your goal. And are you suggesting that your load was all that could be run from that? That is implied in the video.
I just asked one question.

But I'm sure the readers here will note that almost everything you say about my demonstration also applies to yours.


Is this system OU?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNzbc-N-e9c





Offline citfta

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1150 on: July 12, 2019, 03:03:52 PM »
I just asked one question.

But I'm sure the readers here will note that almost everything you say about my demonstration also applies to yours.


Is this system OU?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNzbc-N-e9c

Exactly!!!   :'(    :(

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1150 on: July 12, 2019, 03:03:52 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1151 on: July 12, 2019, 03:12:21 PM »

Offline NickZ

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1152 on: July 12, 2019, 04:05:49 PM »
   TK:   
   Good to see you here. And you're showing a good refresher course of input to output calculations. Something that most of us can learn something from.   Your rig appears to show OU, but if so, can it be made to self run? As that is the final show down.
    Any readings can be wrong, so the loop back is always the part that fills the missing link. 
    Thanks for showing your previous videos. Perhaps you'd like to join in on this project?                                                                                                                                 NickZ
       
   

Offline Void

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1153 on: July 12, 2019, 05:01:34 PM »
I forgot to respond to this second point in this post. There is no truth in this statement at all. There is no law of over unity testing like this. Just because a few of you guys want and demand a self-looping does not mean you can't draw any COP conclusions. Says who? And why? You guys have not justified this assumption. You can very easily understand and measure the efficiency of your primary loop circuit and also measure your reactive loops where the gains take place. These do not have to feed back into each other to understand the total COP. That is non-sense. You guys are just wanting someone to give you a self-looping circuit and work for you for free. So you ignore any claims that would be different than this.

It just so happens that I may want to power a fan at the same power input and CFMs while charging a battery or running a light. And maybe I only have time to do the basic change by merely moving one diode in the circuit. Now if this only gives me 70% more energy than previously, while still running the motor exactly the same, then why couldn't I measure that COP? Why would I have to self-loop this for it to be significant? Why is not 10% over unity acceptable? Or 20%? Or 50%? Self-looping is not always practical or what is wanted. And it is better to not do it by pushing current either. It allows for more output when you keep the input at zero in other ways. Now the fan circuit could be replaced with a fast switching mosfet circuit like I have in my motors and give better results than merely moving one diode.

So let it be settled that this often repeated assumption is false. It is not a first law of OU research to demand a self-loop system to determine COP. Another OU.com myth busted!

Hi Rick. If you only knew just how nonsensical your statements are here...
I actually already clearly explained why setting up a proper self-looping circuit arrangement is pretty much an
essential requirement before anyone can be in any position to reasonably suggest that they are getting a COP > 1
with their circuit setup.

Undeniable Fact:  Most people who experiment and search for OU are not anywhere near experts on power measurements on complex
AC circuits or even on basic AC circuits for that matter, and people in these forums often make all kinds of mistakes in their measurements and
in their assumptions, and also often overlook one or more important factors which may otherwise be throwing off their measurements. Self-looping
the output power of a device to loop back to assist or fully provide the input power to the claimed COP > 1 device is therefore a very important step to
rule out measurement errors, etc. Such a self-looped arrangement doesn't completely rule out external factors affecting the results, but if the
self-looping testing is set up properly and reasonably it can go a long way towards eliminating being mislead by measurement errors and incorrect assumptions.
One of course does not use self-looping to measure the COP, just to determine if the COP might really be greater than 1.

Rick, from seeing a number of your videos in the past, it doesn't surprise me at all that you are completely missing the great importance of a
self-looped test setup in this area of experimentation, and that you responded back with a bunch of nonsense. BTW, I was just kidding about the part
about this being 'a law', but really this testing requirement should be an absolute given in this area of experimentation after all the many years of people
posting nonsense in these forums and on YouTube. There is just no question about the great importance of trying to implement
circuit self-looping in regards to any circuit setup which an experimenter thinks might be exhibiting a COP > 1.
If a person can't understand why this is so important, and it really should be obvious why it is very critical, then IMO they should take
up a new hobby. They are most likely only going to end up misleading them self and possibly others as well
who are also naïve and gullible, unless their intention is to mislead others and try to separate other people from their money.
There are number of people like that out there as well.

In probably most cases, examination of a claimed COP > 1 circuit arrangement which may drag on for months and months here due to
experimenters making incorrect measurements and/or making incorrect assumptions or missing other important factors influencing their results,
could quickly be analyzed as to its real performance by simply taking a little bit of time to determine a reasonable and proper way to self-loop
the circuit setup and then observe how it really performs.  :)


Offline NickZ

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #1154 on: July 12, 2019, 05:08:02 PM »
Nick,
I'm not following you. You have this or are asking what size coils do you need to have to do this? Not sure if you mean the same thing here with the words secondary coil and receiver coils.
A full circuit with proper loading is found in the rectenna technology. These will have proper impedance matching and frequency conversion to run DC loads. That is mainstream science already. All of the setups so far, like Itsu's or mine have not used proper or efficient filtering. We are only using a fraction of the actual energy that could be used because the capacitors, diodes, and/or loads are not meant for RF. So everything after the receiver coil (and in a way the coil itself) is already given in the rectenna tech. So that is what you would do. Just consider the many patents on the subject. The thing to examine is the gains in a resonance tank circuit, and it's effects on the local environment that can benefit from such gains and radiation. You are wanting a loop system, and that is fine. I'm just pointing to the easiest way for you to do that.

   
   Rick:  Thanks for the reply. Yes, I have that, which I mentioned. It just so happens that the secondary of Tesla coil is tuned to the 1.2MHz frequency. It's frequency can be controlled to a certain point, by adding or removing coils on the secondary, (or by connecting to different taps along the secondary). Or by inserting ferrite into the Tesla secondary coil. It's output is dependent on the input power, but normally it's around 4 to 6000v. My question was about the specs on the receiving coils, and what is needed there.
   Dr. Stiffler was doing many different tests along the same or similar lines. And itsu, Gyula, and of our other guys here were also  involved in, long with myself. To see if the Doc's dying secret, the "diode loop", would provide for higher efficiency in lighting 120v AC 12w led bulbs. I followed and replicated some his efforts until his death. The diode loop was a very interested project. And somewhat similar with what's going on here. One important point though, the Doc found that at 13.6MHz there is a signal from the planet, (or atmosphere) that can be tapped into, so that was where he tuned his circuits to. However, that particular non man made signal may be something specific to his location, and may vary from place to place, or not, that part was not verified.
   Anyway, I still don't know just exactly what circuit is used on this project. And still need a more specific schematic, if there is one.
   I do have a 2MHz SG, Scope, multimeters, 12v batteries etz... So I'm ready to play ball...

 

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