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Author Topic: Confirmation of OU devices and claims  (Read 192868 times)

Offline citfta

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #495 on: June 07, 2019, 12:22:22 AM »
What is benf? is a benf coil a bifilar of Tesla?
"Hair pin" is alegory?

In most forums about overunity or free energy the term "hair pin" refers to a device designed by Nicola Tesla.  It is basically a device which consists of a long bare wire bent into the shape of a "hair pin" or a long narrow u shape.  When fed at the bottom with a signal that is the right frequency to resonate with the hair pin wire there will be standing nodes of voltage and current in different locations along the wire.  This is the same thing seen in any radio antenna that is tuned to resonate and transmit the signal of the transmitter.  There is a tremendous amount of garbage posted on this and many other forums about the hair pin circuit.  To really understand the circuit you have to take the time to learn about radio frequency circuits and how they operate.  In particular you need to learn about "standing waves".


The American Radio Relay League has for many years produced books called the "Radio Operators Handbook".  Every few years they produce a new one to include the latest technology.  But even one 20 years old will have the correct information about standing waves and can help you understand a lot about all aspects of electronics.  You can find them on Ebay fairly cheaply if you get an older copy.

Carroll

And as Chet has already mentioned benf is the user name of one of the members of this forum.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #495 on: June 07, 2019, 12:22:22 AM »

Offline itsu

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #496 on: June 07, 2019, 12:13:34 PM »
What is benf? is a benf coil a bifilar of Tesla?
"Hair pin" is alegory?

Funny how a simple question containing a typo (benf instead of bemf) can cause a train of confusing answers/posts  :)
No wonder we do not accomplish anything on these forums  :o

To complete this train of errors and confusion,  its not member benf,  but benfr.


Regards Itsu   

Offline Void

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #497 on: June 07, 2019, 08:44:20 PM »
No wonder we do not accomplish anything on these forums  :o

You have a lot more patience than I do Itsu. :D

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #497 on: June 07, 2019, 08:44:20 PM »
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Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #498 on: June 07, 2019, 09:33:35 PM »
BEMF which type are we talking about here ?
and there is no such thing as a standing wave you mean an in phase one or a 180 degree out of phase one'

and if ET can get here faster than light speed what's the connection with what your trying to do ?
and you cant generate voltage at the same time in a Akula or Ruslan device Why do you think that might be ?
you need to solve that problem to move on
« Last Edit: June 08, 2019, 01:03:26 AM by AlienGrey »

Offline a.king21

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #499 on: June 08, 2019, 05:42:19 AM »
A further point on the Don SMith effect as per his patent.  In a telephone conversation Don stated that there is a further process to his system to get OU.  It's this process which needs to be proved or disproved and it requires some further understanding of the  resonant process.
The initial resonant system is just the start of the process - I am only the messenger here trying to point the theory out.
The claim is that you have to reduce the frequency at resonance to useable frequency .  In order to do that you need to correct the impulse resonant form into DC and then step down the frequency at resonance. The stepping down is claimed to work the same way as a transformer ie reducing the frequency increases the power.


So two choices. POh Pooh the whole concept or get on board  and try it.
Simple.


Just stop shooting the messenger.
Don't take my word that conventional theory is wrong  -  take  MIT as your bible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQN7Dke9pX8


Ha ha ha

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #499 on: June 08, 2019, 05:42:19 AM »
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Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #500 on: June 08, 2019, 03:37:33 PM »
A further point on the Don SMith effect as per his patent.  In a telephone conversation Don stated that there is a further process to his system to get OU.  It's this process which needs to be proved or disproved and it requires some further understanding of the  resonant process.
The initial resonant system is just the start of the process - I am only the messenger here trying to point the theory out.
The claim is that you have to reduce the frequency at resonance to useable frequency .  In order to do that you need to correct the impulse resonant form into DC and then step down the frequency at resonance. The stepping down is claimed to work the same way as a transformer ie reducing the frequency increases the power.




So two choices. POh Pooh the whole concept or get on board  and try it.
Simple.

Just stop shooting the messenger.
Don't take my word that conventional theory is wrong  -  take  MIT as your bible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQN7Dke9pX8

Ha ha ha
Well if you have a gyrating magnetic field in the center it's bound to modulate
and induce energy into the circuit.

Ever get that feeling once in a while  8) :o
Is this the type of circuit your looking for it's a crude 30khz in and a modulated 50hz out,
« Last Edit: June 08, 2019, 07:32:42 PM by AlienGrey »

Offline WhatIsIt

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #501 on: June 08, 2019, 05:31:17 PM »
Well if you have a gyrating magnetic field in the center it's bound to modulate
and induce energy into the circuit.

Ever get that feeling once in a while  8) :o

Hi AG,

Can you tell more about this circuit?
I don't understand Russian.

Why the second FET is on the high side?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #501 on: June 08, 2019, 05:31:17 PM »
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Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #502 on: June 08, 2019, 10:43:25 PM »
Hi AG,

Can you tell more about this circuit?
I don't understand Russian.

Why the second FET is on the high side?
re A Kings demodulation into a lower frequency G2 but its just a block diagram
But 50 and 60 hz is very wast full.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #503 on: June 09, 2019, 12:10:53 AM »
...
Explain how Don Smith obtained a granted patent for the Don Smith Effect.

You need a gauss meter or you are electronically and electrically blind to see the DSE  (Don Smith Effect)
Don Smith did not get a patent, he got a patent application number as member lancaIV explained the meaning of the suffix (A) in Don Smith's Mexican patent application  number MXNL02000035(A).  Link to the application is here: 
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20040520&CC=MX&NR=NL02000035A&KC=A#     

I translated some of the relevant text of the application from Spanish to English by google translator:
...
The invention is distinguished in that it is a new and advantageous system whose technology allows to build a transformer, generator of electrical energy, which uses magnetic energy, which by other systems of transformation and generation of electric power, is Irradiated, discarded and wasted. However, by this invention, said magnetic energy becomes profitable electrical energy. Gauss meters show that almost all the energy of conventional electromagnetic devices is radiated back to the surrounding environment of the electromagnetic device, being wasted. In the case of conventional generator transformers, a radical change in the physical construction allows better access to the available energy. Through this Invention it is discovered that creating a dlpole and inserting condenser plates at an appropriate angle (90 ° ninety degrees) where the current flows, allows the magnetic waves to become useful electrical energy (Coulombs). The magnetic waves that pass through the capacitor plates do not degrade, allowing access to all the available energy of the same. One or more sets of capacitor plates as desired can be used for greater efficiency, glued or separated, and with connections in which the generated voltage is collected. The system of parallel perpendicular capacitor plates can be of different materials, shapes and sizes depending on where they are used. Each group or game produces an exact copy of all the force and effect of the energy present in the magnetic waves. The original (magnetic) energy source is not reduced as it is in conventional transformers.
... 
The invention is based on the generation of an electromagnetic dipole (a metal or plasma bar) (for example by means of a potential generator perpendicular to the magnetic flux) and the use of capacitor plates or capacitors as the receiver component and conductor of electric current. The dipole induced in the invention can be created from any resonant substance such as a metal rod, coil and plasma tubes having positive and negative components interacting. When the plasma is used as a magnetic generator, it can be coupled around the plasma system, a system of magnetic generators (for example coils) which in turn can be used as receivers and conductors of electric current. Having as a result that the component of current induction is transformed into useful electrical energy. At the same time, the invention can be self-sufficient, that is to say, once the invention has been started, it can auto-feed itself, by means of a coil connected to the electric power outlet, which generates the same energy quality as that used when starting.
BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF THE DRAWINGS (FIGURES):
The dipole at the right angle allows the magnetic flux that surrounds it to intercept the condensing plates placed at the proper angle. The electrons present are attracted, in such a way that the electrical component of the electron is gathered by the condenser plates. As an essential part of the invention we have the formation by magnetic means of an active dipole with north and south components (figure 1). 
... 
SUMMARY 
The invention relates to a transformer generating electrical energy by electromagnetic means through a potential generator and the use of plates (or coils) capacitors or capacitors as a magnetic energy receiving component that is transformed to electric current. Having as a result that the component of current Induction is transformed into useful electrical energy.   


All this sounds as if Don Smith wanted to get energy by superimposing an Electrical field with a Magnetic field, obtained from two sources and orienting the two fields in 90 degree angle with respect to each other like represented in the Poyinting vector description (Maxwell equations). 

I do not think that such method i.e. applying the Poyinting vector model backwards would yield useful output energy if at all.  I will be stand corrected any time someone builds such setup and proves it can self run as Don Smith claimed in his text.

You also wrote: 

A further point on the Don SMith effect as per his patent.  In a telephone conversation Don stated that there is a further process to his system to get OU.  It's this process which needs to be proved or disproved and it requires some further understanding of the  resonant process....
I wish you good luck to apply the further process needed to get OU. 

Gyula

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #503 on: June 09, 2019, 12:10:53 AM »
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Offline a.king21

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #504 on: June 09, 2019, 02:24:32 AM »
Don said the following re the plasma tube device.(audio 2003) "First of all you have to change your radio frequency and you change it to pulsating DC. Once you've done that you can use it just like ordinary electricity.."  The reason I am banging the drum about the frequency reduction component is that it features in Kapanadze's patent application in the L2 part of his device, so there is a comon thread to both Don SMith and Kapanadze.  Rick also would not give me any details saying it's too dangerous because volts can become amps.


So come on guys  (and gals)  especially the EEs.  How do you reduce frequency in an electrical circuit with a gain???
Even how to reduce the frequency without a loss would be good.
 Funny how the silence about this subject on the internet  is DEAFENING!

Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #505 on: June 09, 2019, 02:50:11 AM »
Don said the following re the plasma tube device.(audio 2003) "First of all you have to change your radio frequency and you change it to pulsating DC. Once you've done that you can use it just like ordinary electricity.."  The reason I am banging the drum about the frequency reduction component is that it features in Kapanadze's patent application in the L2 part of his device, so there is a comon thread to both Don SMith and Kapanadze.  Rick also would not give me any details saying it's too dangerous because volts can become amps.


So come on guys  (and gals)  especially the EEs.  How do you reduce frequency in an electrical circuit with a gain???
Even how to reduce the frequency without a loss would be good.
 Funny how the silence about this subject on the internet  is DEAFENING!
2 ways i would have thought as Don did it charging up capacitors with timing RC circuit but you still have the voltage now and you have amps in your caps, with out some kind of feed back cut off circuit.

Or use a transformer wound on a tube and re modulate it in blocks like a train carriage and some kind of cut off circuit control.

Remember your trip to Lithuania and the electric fire and the aquarium.  think about how that worked.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #505 on: June 09, 2019, 02:50:11 AM »
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Offline itsu

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #506 on: June 09, 2019, 11:48:08 AM »

A.king21,

it is just too simple to hide behind the phrase "don't shoot the messenger".
 
If you are willing to spout claims which are not normally understood or even confusing, then you can expect all kind of comments and questions.


What do you mean by:
"you have to reduce the frequency at resonance to useable frequency"?
And: 
"you need to correct the impulse resonant form into DC and then step down the frequency at resonance"?


# What is a "useable frequency"?  50Hz?  60Hz?  180Khz?
# Reducing a frequency (guess of an LC circuit) is easy, just increase the L or C, is that what you mean?
# what is "the impulse resonant form"?  Do you mean the input signal into a resonant LC circuit?
  Its pulsed DC in my case (gate driver).
# what do you mean by "and then step down the frequency at resonance"?  How would one do that without disturbing resonance?


You (DS, RF) just cannot "think up" something that might work (step down the frequency at resonance) and then challence the EE's to come up with a solution.

Its no wonder to me why "the silence about this subject on the internet  is DEAFENING!" an EE would not touch this.

The use of a resistor to pull the frequency down to suit the step-down transformer in one of DS famous contraptions using an ARRL table, see the PDF page 89 / bottom in this link:  https://tinyurl.com/yymrqcsl  is already long debunked as nonsense.

I am still building, testing and measuring the Big and small coils, but all attempts up till now show the same results as in my previous tests.

Regards Itsu

Offline citfta

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #507 on: June 09, 2019, 01:17:43 PM »
A.king21,

it is just too simple to hide behind the phrase "don't shoot the messenger".
 
If you are willing to spout claims which are not normally understood or even confusing, then you can expect all kind of comments and questions.


What do you mean by:
"you have to reduce the frequency at resonance to useable frequency"?
And: 
"you need to correct the impulse resonant form into DC and then step down the frequency at resonance"?


# What is a "useable frequency"?  50Hz?  60Hz?  180Khz?
# Reducing a frequency (guess of an LC circuit) is easy, just increase the L or C, is that what you mean?
# what is "the impulse resonant form"?  Do you mean the input signal into a resonant LC circuit?
  Its pulsed DC in my case (gate driver).
# what do you mean by "and then step down the frequency at resonance"?  How would one do that without disturbing resonance?


You (DS, RF) just cannot "think up" something that might work (step down the frequency at resonance) and then challence the EE's to come up with a solution.

Its no wonder to me why "the silence about this subject on the internet  is DEAFENING!" an EE would not touch this.

The use of a resistor to pull the frequency down to suit the step-down transformer in one of DS famous contraptions using an ARRL table, see the PDF page 89 / bottom in this link:  https://tinyurl.com/yymrqcsl  is already long debunked as nonsense.

I am still building, testing and measuring the Big and small coils, but all attempts up till now show the same results as in my previous tests.

Regards Itsu

Hi Itsu,

The part I highlighted in red is the very reason I decided Don Smith was either very confused or a scam artist.  As I think you know I am a Ham so I was already pretty familiar with the ARRL handbook.  I was also familiar with that chart that Don used very incorrectly to make his claim.  Up until I saw that in one of his videos I thought he might actually have something.  When I saw that I then became very skeptical and then the more I saw the more I realized he was spouting out a bunch of garbage.   His claim that a neon sign transformer was already OU because the open output voltage times the shorted output current was more power than the input is also a false claim.  You measure output power by measuring both the current and voltage while under load as anyone with any electronics training already knows.  Those are only two of the red flags I saw while watching some of his videos.

As I have said before,   I like Rick,  but I am very sorry to see he has fallen for the baloney put out by Don Smith.


Respectfully,
Carroll

Offline Hoppy

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #508 on: June 09, 2019, 01:30:02 PM »
This guy sums it up in his first couple of sentences.   ;D

Offline forest

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #509 on: June 09, 2019, 01:49:10 PM »
citfta
May I ask two questions ?

1. Is it true that resistance in radio LC circuit will change Q factor and make resonant "point" wider ?2. Can you make LC circuit of high Q factor and then connect proper antenna and have standing wave inside it without radiating EM wave with the same amps and voltage rise as in LC circuit ?

 

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