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Author Topic: Confirmation of OU devices and claims  (Read 198900 times)

Online seaad

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #300 on: April 29, 2019, 08:28:07 PM »
You can maybe build an OU
 NE-2 Ring Counter  ;)
N.B. You use 100 Volt input and 1 Mega Ohm series resistors (tiny current).
"A NE-2 is a very low-current device !"

http://www.bristolwatch.com/ele/neon.htm

Arne

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #300 on: April 29, 2019, 08:28:07 PM »

Offline itsu

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #301 on: April 29, 2019, 09:06:47 PM »

Benfr,


Quote
Simply said, if you can multiply voltage while keeping the same amperage, you have therefore overunity.

I wish it would be that simple, but besides voltage, current and power, there are also things like phase, real power, reactive power, etc.
Please take a look at how AC power is derived here:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/hframe.html

And why there is such a high voltage across C or L (but 180° out of phase, so canceled) in a series LRC circuit here:
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-voltage-drop-across-the-inductor-L-and-the-capacitor-C-much-larger-than-the-applied-voltage-in-a-series-of-resonance-circuits
 
Itsu


Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #302 on: April 29, 2019, 10:13:32 PM »
Hi3 pages back re Rick F and his fancy 50 dollar 157uhry coils one guy finds a junk RC calculator that ets a 100uf cap to resonate at 1 khz, is that a joke or what ?


https://www.1728.org/resfreq.htm
Resonant Frequency Calculator


anyway, see pic!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #302 on: April 29, 2019, 10:13:32 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #303 on: April 29, 2019, 10:19:49 PM »

Hi benfr,

Unfortunately, you misunderstand the operation of a series LC circuit.  In the tutorial url link you referred to, there is nothing which would imply:  "if you can multiply voltage while keeping the same amperage, you have therefore overunity." 

Try to estimate how much power your neon bulb consumes. Here is a data sheet http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/57560.pdf on it, page 2,  NE-2 draws 0.6 mA and breakdown voltage is betwen 60 to 90 VDC. 
Lets choose say 75 V, divided by 0.6 mA gives 125 kOhm, ok? This is the load for you resonant circuit WHENEVER the instanteneous AC voltage across the coil (or capacitor) exceeds 75 V. Now estimate that out of a full cycle, T=0.809 us (T=1/1235kHz), how many us (microsecond) part of the sine wave is under +/-75V, and how many us part of the sine wave exceeds +/-75V (suppose your sine wave across L or C has say 110 Vpp)?  because current can flow through the bulb only when voltage difference across it exceeds 75V.  The ON time for the bulb versus the OFF time is way less time duration within a T period, this means that even the very small 0.6 mA load current is flowing for say 1/3 or 1/4 of the T time period. 
Try to use an incandescent lamp (or a fix resistor as I suggested to member A.king) which will will be present during 100% of the T time period (except at zero crossings of course) and then see the real performance.  With neon bulb you have some hundred microwatt output power versus the some ten milliwatt input your function generator feeds into your circuit.

This leads you to study the meaning of peak and average power in an LC circuit.   

Have a look at this circuit  http://www.discovercircuits.com/DJ-Circuits/ac14fls.htm   
where a pulsed LED lamp is fed from a 1.5V battery and see what a big difference can exist between peak LED current and average LED current, hence peak power and average power drawn from the battery. It is the average current which counts on the long term of course and defines battery life time.  The 20 mA peak current flows only for 400 usec in that circuit at each ON time.

Overunity which is a misnomer, (better use efficiency or COP), should be used to compare the average input power (or energy) to the average output power (or energy) a device supplies to your load as useful output.
Efficiency or COP (or the misused name overunity) is never used for comparing only input voltage (or current) to output voltage (or current), it is a mistake, always average power levels should be used.

Gyula
 

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #304 on: April 29, 2019, 10:28:01 PM »
Hi3 pages back re Rick F and his fancy 50 dollar 157uhry coils one guy finds a junk RC calculator that ets a 100uf cap to resonate at 1 khz, is that a joke or what ?


https://www.1728.org/resfreq.htm
Resonant Frequency Calculator


anyway, see pic!
Please give more details,  where is 1 kHz and where is 100 uF in these LC circuits involved? Who wrote that, give Reply #
Gyula

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #304 on: April 29, 2019, 10:28:01 PM »
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Offline tomd

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #305 on: April 29, 2019, 11:02:17 PM »
As I understand it these coils are used to demonstrate some of the principles underlying some of Don Smith's devices. In particular I'm thinking of the device having a loosely coupled primary and secondary Tesla coil surrounded wirelessly by 3 coils in resonance with the secondary.
In his 1994 video Don said in reference to series resonance "Almost all the things that go on here will be essentially in parallel because when you put them in series you get a degradation."

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #306 on: April 29, 2019, 11:18:20 PM »
Hi tomd,
Member aking posted this: https://overunity.com/17491/confirmation-of-ou-devices-and-claims/msg533791/#msg533791 

What Don did demonstrate was an off the shelf inverter driving a fan from a 12V battery and when asked why he did not show the two other boards hooked up into his setup, he answered he also had 24 hours a day like anyone else...   
In fact he never showed his HV boards operating and producing the kiloWatts output.
Gyula

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #306 on: April 29, 2019, 11:18:20 PM »
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Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #307 on: April 30, 2019, 01:18:50 AM »
Hello Guys !
Why not take a simple working recipe and build from there ?
Rick Friedrich has shown a great tool of how to produce easy overunity on this video :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18kOGVfkoik
how to produce a multiplication of voltage , or amperage, or both.
How is that done and possible ?
Well, I am going to help you build one in a single hour's time below.
What you can also do, to be safely and thoroughly taught by Mr Friedrich, is get his "kit" : the "resonant inductive coupler kit" that comes with a 3 hours video to show you what is OU out of the simplest recipe on earth.

For our friends in any other country in the world, who do not have 100 USD to spend, and who may have a bit of cables , and can spend a few dollars in a few electronic parts, I am going to show you what is shown in the RICK kit, without departing, as said Tesla, from the interest of buying it.
I. You will build 3 coils which are as follows :
- 2,5 centimeter diameter (a plumber plastic should be around this and work even at 3 or 4 centimeter).
- 0.5 mm to 2 mm width for the wire
- 54 to 57 turns.
inductance : around 157 uF.

get 3 "100 pF" capacitors.

II. put all those in series :
x capacitor>coil>capacitor>coil>capacitor>coil y

III. send a SQUARE frequency of 863 KHZ at 11 to 15 volts at x and y points.
the frequency can be approximately deduced from well established formulaes, for instance :
https://goodcalculators.com/resonant-frequency-calculator/


IV. put a 100 V bulb anywhere across several points in this circuit, for instance on x and y .
it lights brigthly : voltage has been mutiplied by a factor of around X7, so a Q=7, so a 700% factor multiplier for voltage.

V. remark : the amperage stays the same.

You may now Thank Rick Friedrich for creating this kit in hommage to Don Smith, which I highly recommend to buy (100 USD).
 
Key words : Tesla, resonance , Tesla lecture 1893, high frequency, Rick Friedrich, resonance coupling, overunity, voltage multiplication, amperage multiplication.

Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #308 on: April 30, 2019, 01:22:20 AM »
'i highlighted it in green I was trying to find out how Itsu got his 90 deg phase shift.
Then found that and thought that can't be right. then tried to reverse logic what that Rick F
was up to and got really confused.

Feel free to delete both posts  :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #308 on: April 30, 2019, 01:22:20 AM »
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Offline forest

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #309 on: April 30, 2019, 08:07:01 AM »
Make resonant circuit with parametric pumping input frequency and the method of converting output to very high frequency. That way OU is real I think.
https://hackaday.com/2019/04/26/parametric-amplifiers-and-varactors/
I spotted this effect in 2005 with the room filled with electrostatic response from all metals. The proper grounding then makes current flow outside of the wires. In fact Tesla said it in plain sight in his interview. I believe Barbosa and Leal perfected Tesla method but we won't know due to cryptic patent text (like always).

Quote
"That was in 1891, prior to my going to England to lecture before the scientific societies there, the Royal Institution and the Institution of Electrical Engineers.   I had a wire run out through the window, and placed on the roof all sorts of devices to constitute this capacity [shown in the diagrams as an elevated square].   The first step was to connect this alternator [shown in the diagrams as a circle] with one terminal to the water pipe system and the other end to the antenna.   I had already proved in my lecture at Columbia College that I could transmit energy through one wire; therefore, I was prepared to find that a current of considerable strength could be passed through this wire here [connecting the alternator to the elevated capacitor], although it was insulated.   My idea at that time was that I would disturb the electrical equilibrium in the nearby portions of the earth, and the equilibrium being disturbed, this could then be utilized to bring into operation in any way some instrument.   That was what we would now call, simply, impressing forced vibrations of very high frequency on an antenna.   We have introduced the term "antenna" since that time. . . ."
[/font][/size]

Offline lancaIV

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #310 on: April 30, 2019, 10:51:51 AM »
benfr,not to think about C.O.P. the simplest question here is :

how many lumen per Watts or Watth can be reached ?! Using a lamp as "output"-indicator

For example :    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M3YWB-noPNo

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=homZvbKZHlU

Comparison and confirmation : better, as same, worser



One -from my view - most important parameter- for usefull output :
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_cycle
 we have to differ peak from average power input : power on/ off timing
What we are doing and in re-/search :
       from net-grid to off-/ extra-grid controls :

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_demand_(electric_power)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demand_response
negative power factor and positive power factor balancing

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #310 on: April 30, 2019, 10:51:51 AM »
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Offline benfr

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #311 on: April 30, 2019, 11:53:15 AM »
Overunity which is a misnomer, (better use efficiency or COP),

I totally agree, and I prefer to use the term COP = 7 generally speaking.
With that already, there is plenty of room to play for me... ;D

You think that the results I am pointing this forum at are irrelevant regarding calculations you mention. But I do not need those calculations, Gyula.
My purpose is not to measure everything. It is to make a use of one little thing : voltage amplification and amperage conservation.
I do not care about the other parameters because they are not needed to power my light with free voltage lovingly offered.

First anyway, I wish to thank you for taking the time to explain your view and calculations. It is respectable.
I believe it can help some people more in the know and understanding than I am capable of, on this very forum.
My purpose is not to understand , it is to show working COP > 1 machines that work as the exploration of God's Secrets and Unlimited Love show are everywhere for us to look and pick and say Thank You.

The article https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/accircuits/series-resonance.html
states in plain sight voltage amplification :
' The result of this is that the magnitudes of the voltages across the inductor, L and the capacitor, C can become many times larger than the supply voltage'
In effect this theory is real because not only we observe it, but we can POWER A LOAD OFF THIS AMPLIFICATION OF VOLTAGE !

You state : "Try to estimate how much power your neon bulb consumes."
I don't need to ! I know my input with my frequency generator ! it's 5 watts and it doesn't budge.
So your knowledge is of great value, and much greater than my own, thanks for sharing it.

Itsu "I wish it would be that simple, but besides voltage, current and power, there are also things like phase, real power, reactive power, etc.":
I understand you itsu.
Tell me one thing : when you read a book at night, do you need to know the phase value ? Or is a lighted bulb enough for you ? It if it not enough, then I guess this forum and this thread may not fulfill your expectations. For this you have also schools, universities, and experience.
You say you wish that was so simple ? I have no idea if it is. From what you are exposing it seems it is not that simple, in effect...
To convince yourself of the simplicity , please show us your frequency generator and please light your NE2 bulb without the little additions I introduced.
Where has the light gone if it disappeared ? BTW congratulations again for taking the time to fabricate a similar setup and sharing it.

Now let us look carefully once again at this machine.
I now what is the input of the frequency generator and it does not change. Right ? Its consumption is 5 watts.
I can measure the current if I need. But I don't need that because I trust it is unchanged on the paper & theory. It could be checked though - why not go that way even if I have already accepted the answer that it doesn't move - but why someone does not build it and share his work here. I may provide this information later, when I get back for further pleasures on this...
I have also tried to power that bulb driectly from it and IT DOES NOT LIGHT UP even when it is pushed at its max (20 V), while I can power it at 8.7 V with my 3-coils system added to it.

I am not confused with theory and practice, because I am lighting a system that cannot do that by itself ! And without the use of this little addition to the system, you already said you waited without never ever glowing that NE2...and with reason ! Change the frequency to 1.1 MHZ and let us know what happens.
Are you still able to light your bulb ?

Top of the cake, this experience is the exact definition of real, free energy ! It's free because I only have done a little modification to the system, static, not consuming anything, without inputting anything more , and now it powers my room for real that it couldn't the minute earlier. It is visible and comes from apparently nowhere ! That's my definition of free energy.

This forum, I believe, is for real people looking for real solutions, which is what I have been offered by you know who and that I feel the usefulness to share.
Next time, I will show you AMPERAGE MULTIPLICATION.

lanIV "how many lumen per Watts or Watth can be reached ?! Using a lamp as "output"-indicator" => you are RIGHT. Lumen is to me another way to look at the same energy mutiplication by the secret of the universe
In this case, COP = 8 laid down (from zero lumen to a few, sort of candlelight++ as you can imagine from the photos).


Offline benfr

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #312 on: April 30, 2019, 11:54:39 AM »
forest  ' spotted this effect in 2005 with the room' => interesting post

Offline lancaIV

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #313 on: April 30, 2019, 12:11:57 PM »
Charging the lamp with 'static voltage + displacement current' would mean to reach the " ( cold) fusion circuit" :

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19900201&CC=DE&NR=3817730A1&KC=A1#


https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2013/03/14/tiny-nuclear-reactions-inside-compact-fluorescent-bulbs/

 Instead " solar": photo-voltaic later including phono-voltaic ( combined : thermionic channeling)


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Not overunity,  work C. O. P. optimizer, but eta<1                     Instead 100W peak power only 4+8= 12 Watt average consume

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=US&NR=5130608A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=19920714&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP#

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #314 on: April 30, 2019, 12:30:58 PM »
Hi benfr,

On every forum like this on alternative energy, COP is not considered to arrive at by comparing input voltage or current to output voltage or current. Why do you disregard this? 
COP estimation is based on input power (average or real) compared to output power (also average or real).

IF you do not consider this, your devices will also be disregarded as COP > 1 performers.

If your frequency generator gives out 5W to your circuit and then you drive a neon bulb from your circuit, what efficiency does it mean?

 Why do not you care about common sense: you invest 5W to light up a neon bulb which normally consumes in the range from hundred microwatts up to some milliwatt power. This does not make sense.
And even if you drive LED lamps from the output of each receiver unit, you can only state your setup works as COP > 1 system if and only if you make sure by measurements that the sum of the power levels the LED lamps actually draw exceeds your 5W input from the frequency generator. 

It is not enough you say you use a 3W, a 4W and say a 5W rated LED lamp and bingo you have got 3+4+5=12W output power, hence your COP is 12W/5W = 2.4   This would be total nonsense and most unscientific.  The input power actually used by LED lamps cannot be estimated by the naked eye.
Why I feel you are pulling our legs?

Gyula

 

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