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Author Topic: Confirmation of OU devices and claims  (Read 183082 times)

Offline a.king21

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #510 on: June 09, 2019, 02:00:16 PM »
Well firstly, in response to Rick's "phase conjugate mirror" claim.  Yesterday I ran the kit for 3 hours and the voltage on the gate driver did not move - so something interesting was happening.  (I had several extra coils). So I was lighting several leds and powering the gate driver without loss.




I was hoping from help from the community not attacks.


So I will bow out gracefully and say I cannot prove Don Smith one way or the other.
  I will end my discussions on this subject with Rick's reply in  the following youtube post.


"We are presently doing some additions to the kit which will address that. You are dealing with high frequency so you have to have high frequency parts. The LEDs are slow diodes and show only a fraction of the output on purpose. The purpose of the kit is not to see how much OU we can get but to learn about sensitive tuning before you get into the heavy output amplification. The high frequency needs to be converted to the frequency of the loads people are using. Capacitors, diodes and related parts need to be fast enough for the 1.25MHz, regular parts will not give you very much at all. You can run the coils at 180kHz with 5nf caps as I do when I use the regular coils with the big coil at my meetings. That is a significantly lower frequency to work with. You could go with lower frequency still with a bigger cap but I find the 100pf cap range to be about the best (and the higher the frequency the more energy can be multiplied). Converting the HF to usable low frequency is another whole matter where there is just as much lack of experience as in creating resonance. You have to get into the R (resistor) side of an RLC circuit and/or the RC side. In the Don Smith book I show the pages from the video where Don shows the three resonant waves with the RLC circuit. The first is the regular damped wave which is called positive. The second is the standing wave (which we can get into with phase conjugate mirroring) which is called zero. The third is the increasing or trumpet wave which is negative (resistance). The third allows the matched resistor to (as Don says) pull out the frequency (lower) while adding amplitude or capacity. This is like a voltage transformer, but rather a frequency transformer. Both do not sacrifice power in the conversion so that as you lower the frequency you increase the capacity in the charging capacitor accordingly. [But when you don't convert the frequency you just get the energy level of the capacity as if the frequency was converted when using low frequency parts and loads.] So you have to go to the charts in the ARRL books and find the right resistor to match the system. So this something people have to do and learn for themselves. It's hard to come to grips with in that a resistor is used to being a load, and in this case it is a negative resistor for the purpose of transformation of the energy. Don addresses these things, but very little. I did what I could in the Don Smith book to show you some actual pictures of his models where he was doing that, but he never gave specific details of any one system. No one, including me, are going to give out all the part numbers and specific values of every part we use as this is where people have to do that for themselves. I'll get into this more as soon as I can catch up with orders and do one other thing with this kit first. The Don Smith book was to put all the details Don gave into one place without modifying that with commentary or words from other people (including me). The Resonance book with kit is important to learn from before that book. But another application book would be good to do (but may never get done because it would probably cross a dangerous line...). Right now it is up to people to figure out the several stages. We did the resonance stage already, so people have to figure out how to replace the frequency generator with a better system that rings the bell to allow self-oscillation rather than forced. Then they have to learn the conventional process of converting the frequency as mentioned. Then transform the voltage if necessary. You can learn about these in the Don Smith book enough to make it work and understand it. I show some other commercial devices that did these processes, so people can look at existing tech to see how it is done. But I am limited to what I can show specifically for several reasons..."


Good luck with your experimenting and I am done now.

BYE.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #510 on: June 09, 2019, 02:00:16 PM »

Online citfta

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #511 on: June 09, 2019, 02:22:58 PM »

I was hoping from help from the community not attacks.



I am sorry that you feel someone pointing out very basic well known electronic fundamentals is somehow an attack.

Respectfully,
Carroll

Online citfta

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #512 on: June 09, 2019, 02:27:49 PM »
citfta
May I ask two questions ?

1. Is it true that resistance in radio LC circuit will change Q factor and make resonant "point" wider ?2. Can you make LC circuit of high Q factor and then connect proper antenna and have standing wave inside it without radiating EM wave with the same amps and voltage rise as in LC circuit ?

Yes, changing the resistance in a LC circuit does change the Q and that in turn changes the width of the frequency response.
I don't understand your last question.  If you connect a tuned LC circuit to a properly  tuned antenna it WILL radiate an EM wave.

Respectfully,
Carroll

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #512 on: June 09, 2019, 02:27:49 PM »
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Offline itsu

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #513 on: June 09, 2019, 05:51:34 PM »
Hi Itsu,

The part I highlighted in red is the very reason I decided Don Smith was either very confused or a scam artist.  As I think you know I am a Ham so I was already pretty familiar with the ARRL handbook.  I was also familiar with that chart that Don used very incorrectly to make his claim.  Up until I saw that in one of his videos I thought he might actually have something.  When I saw that I then became very skeptical and then the more I saw the more I realized he was spouting out a bunch of garbage.   His claim that a neon sign transformer was already OU because the open output voltage times the shorted output current was more power than the input is also a false claim.  You measure output power by measuring both the current and voltage while under load as anyone with any electronics training already knows.  Those are only two of the red flags I saw while watching some of his videos.

As I have said before,   I like Rick,  but I am very sorry to see he has fallen for the baloney put out by Don Smith.

Respectfully,
Carroll

Hi Carroll,

yes that claim that a neon sign transformer was already OU is another goof up of him that opened up the eyes of many.


Anyway, it don't look like i will get any answers on my questions, so i will await my gaussmeter to arrive
and do some tests with it to see if i can find some extra energy with it.

Itsu



Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #514 on: June 09, 2019, 06:52:43 PM »
Hi Carroll,

yes that claim that a neon sign transformer was already OU is another goof up of him that opened up the eyes of many.


Anyway, it don't look like i will get any answers on my questions, so i will await my gaussmeter to arrive
and do some tests with it to see if i can find some extra energy with it.

Itsu
Yes Hmm I can already see a problem with this test that result in nothing being observed some how.
Why because the correct protocol wont be practiced in it's test as you most probably don't have the correct apparatus to do it with as a cheep'o  device will be just too slow unless your going to lash out into the 5 or 600 region. Watch the 3 vid's Philippine guy made by Ismael Aviso on how it works secret.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2019, 11:31:25 PM by AlienGrey »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #514 on: June 09, 2019, 06:52:43 PM »
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Offline WhatIsIt

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #515 on: June 10, 2019, 02:12:02 AM »
Hi Carroll,

yes that claim that a neon sign transformer was already OU is another goof up of him that opened up the eyes of many.


Anyway, it don't look like i will get any answers on my questions, so i will await my gaussmeter to arrive
and do some tests with it to see if i can find some extra energy with it.

Itsu

Don believe that HF (till 200khz, above that it is constant) is efficient above COP = 1.
All we have to do is use it. Convert it to usable energy.
That is his claim!
Gaussmeter will maybe show points of magnetic flux density or magnetic induction in the CGS (metric) system which name is the gauss, of higher flux density energy.
Which can be true!
But, extracting useful energy method from that points is something which you have to discover, yet, if you find one!
So, long way ahead! If you have a will to share, I am excited as you are, because I can't do it.

My best wish, and keep the fingers.!
Good luck!

This is something new, so, maybe it can yield desired results.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #516 on: June 11, 2019, 01:20:32 AM »
Well firstly, in response to Rick's "phase conjugate mirror" claim.  Yesterday I ran the kit for 3 hours and the voltage on the gate driver did not move - so something interesting was happening.  (I had several extra coils). So I was lighting several leds and powering the gate driver without loss.

....
The voltage does not change (at least easily noticeably) on the gate driver because most decent gate drivers have under 1 Ohm output resistance and behave as a voltage source like a battery. 

So either the AC output current from the gate driver or the resonant AC voltage across the L or the C member of the series LC transmitter (TX) circuit should be checked how they change when you couple some extra receiver coils to the L member of the transmitter coil. 

What should also be known here is that if the series TX circuit gets detuned from resonance or you start coupling receiver coils
(with LED lamp loads on them) to the TX coil, then even if you carefully retune both the TX and RX circuits to resonance,  the impedance of the series LC circuit  (that loads the output of the gate driver) increases. 
This manifests in a smaller output current from the gate driver and a smaller voltage level across the L and C members of the transmitter. (This latter is shown by Itsu and can also be seen even in Rick F's video, on their oscilloscopes.) 

So you did not power the gate driver without loss, unfortunately, you misguided yourself by voltage measurement on the gate driver.  The "phase conjugate mirror" is a technical hodgepodge expression here, sorry to say. 
By the way, from Itsu measurements and videos you should already have gathered guidance what to check and where.

Gyula

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #516 on: June 11, 2019, 01:20:32 AM »
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Offline a.king21

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #517 on: June 11, 2019, 04:12:47 AM »
The voltage does not change (at least easily noticeably) on the gate driver because most decent gate drivers have under 1 Ohm output resistance and behave as a voltage source like a battery. 

So either the AC output current from the gate driver or the resonant AC voltage across the L or the C member of the series LC transmitter (TX) circuit should be checked how they change when you couple some extra receiver coils to the L member of the transmitter coil. 

What should also be known here is that if the series TX circuit gets detuned from resonance or you start coupling receiver coils
(with LED lamp loads on them) to the TX coil, then even if you carefully retune both the TX and RX circuits to resonance,  the impedance of the series LC circuit  (that loads the output of the gate driver) increases. 
This manifests in a smaller output current from the gate driver and a smaller voltage level across the L and C members of the transmitter. (This latter is shown by Itsu and can also be seen even in Rick F's video, on their oscilloscopes.) 

So you did not power the gate driver without loss, unfortunately, you misguided yourself by voltage measurement on the gate driver.  The "phase conjugate mirror" is a technical hodgepodge expression here, sorry to say. 
By the way, from Itsu measurements and videos you should already have gathered guidance what to check and where.

Gyula


Yes you are right. It is an honor to be mentored by such a great experimenter like you.   I would dearly like to see your builds.  I think I would learn a lot.  Anyway I have other projects to deal with now and will be leaving the experiments alone for a while.
And there are obviously no similarities between Don Smith and Kapanadze who are both probably frauds. And VAR is just an angle on a scope - nothing to see there  - move on. And I am sure that Kirchhoff's laws are immutable and work on every single occasion.
You have won Gyula.  Enjoy your victory. As you say there is no OU and no magnetic energy to speak of - it's all just a figment of Don Smith's imagination. And there is no increase of magnetic energy when you attach an earth ground, because the earth does not have any way of transmitting magnetic energy into a circuit.  And you cannot have a light bulb filament  made from bamboo cane either. Everyone knows that. After all the laws of physics are never wrong.  On that we can be sure. And of course there is no increase in magnetic energy when you activate a neon sign transformer or a pulsating HV module- everyone knows that.  After all you cannot get more out of a circuit than you put in because Kirchhoff's loop law is never wrong.
Enjoy your victory Gyula.

Offline WhatIsIt

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #518 on: June 11, 2019, 04:40:53 AM »

Yes you are right. It is an honor to be mentored by such a great experimenter like you.   I would dearly like to see your builds.  I think I would learn a lot.  Anyway I have other projects to deal with now and will be leaving the experiments alone for a while.
And there are obviously no similarities between Don Smith and Kapanadze who are both probably frauds. And VAR is just an angle on a scope - nothing to see there  - move on. And I am sure that Kirchhoff's laws are immutable and work on every single occasion.
You have won Gyula.  Enjoy your victory. As you say there is no OU and no magnetic energy to speak of - it's all just a figment of Don Smith's imagination. And there is no increase of magnetic energy when you attach an earth ground, because the earth does not have any way of transmitting magnetic energy into a circuit.  And you cannot have a light bulb filament  made from bamboo cane either. Everyone knows that. After all the laws of physics are never wrong.  On that we can be sure. And of course there is no increase in magnetic energy when you activate a neon sign transformer or a pulsating HV module- everyone knows that.  After all you cannot get more out of a circuit than you put in because Kirchhoff's loop law is never wrong.
Enjoy your victory Gyula.

Gyula is right!

But it does not mean that he want to destroy you. Continue your work and research. We need people like Gyula to show us our possible pitfalls!
So, don't just abandon idea. Try to expand it and find something new in there.
Every experiment needs and takes a time and effort. Who is trying, at the end will find something. That counts!

Good luck to you, and thanks to people like Gyula, they help with experience!
It is not about victory. Nobody wins!
Victory is BS until we all wins! It will come, sooner or later!

Cheers!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #518 on: June 11, 2019, 04:40:53 AM »
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Offline itsu

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #519 on: June 11, 2019, 11:02:01 AM »

Wise words WhatIsIt,  nonbody here is trying to destroy anyone else.

For me its a battle between believes based on knowledge, facts and traditional education on one side,
and believes based on self tought experiments and (unproven) results shown in video's on the other side.

Both believes can be very strong.

But the result should allways be that at the end there is an "effect" that can create extra power and
can be shown and replicated and therefor measured.


So come on A.king21,  don't give up so easily, let Gyula be your guide pulling you back to mother earth so now
and then.    You (and me and others) can only learn from it.


Be aware of language barriers which can unintentionally cause phrases to come out different as originally meant.


Regards Itsu


Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #520 on: June 11, 2019, 11:52:32 AM »
Here is a whats calmed to be a working yoke wave form however the 'current' waveform appears attenuated or clipped on the negative half cycle be aware also that 'current' is also a magnetic influence in this pinch effect wave, is this what your ignoring which is quite fast and I doubt any cheapo hall device will detect.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #520 on: June 11, 2019, 11:52:32 AM »
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Offline a.king21

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #521 on: June 11, 2019, 04:06:12 PM »
Itsu:  One further point.  When the phase conjugate mirror occured the coils went stone cold and the earth wire went stone cold. Also the big coil went stone cold.


Try this.  Measure the gauss on your big coil at start up.
Tune the big coil in and out of resonance. What does the gauss meter show?


Then attach a ground wire to the negative of your big coil at resonance . what do you see?
Then attach the ground wire to the positive of your big coil - what do you see?
Turn on a plasma ball and compare the gauss measurement.  What do you see?
Turn on a HV module and measure the gauss.  What do you see?

Offline WhatIsIt

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #522 on: June 11, 2019, 08:24:04 PM »
Itsu:  One further point.  When the phase conjugate mirror occured the coils went stone cold and the earth wire went stone cold. Also the big coil went stone cold.


Try this.  Measure the gauss on your big coil at start up.
Tune the big coil in and out of resonance. What does the gauss meter show?


Then attach a ground wire to the negative of your big coil at resonance . what do you see?
Then attach the ground wire to the positive of your big coil - what do you see?
Turn on a plasma ball and compare the gauss measurement.  What do you see?
Turn on a HV module and measure the gauss.  What do you see?

It will be easier that you show your measurements, so he can compare it.
That way we all can see and assist on the results.
This is new approach with gauss meter, and new method. Which can yield some conclusions.

So, my fingers up!
We are all listening!

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #523 on: June 11, 2019, 10:52:00 PM »

...

Hi a.king21,

I am smiling at your remarks fraught with malice.  :)   

By the way, when writing on such forums I never consider to defeat anybody nor to be in a winning situation.  Correct science is in focus, that is all.  And I never comment topics on which I have no either (already proven) theoretically or experimentally correct knowledge.  And I often write: I will always be stand corrected should correct measurements prove me wrong,  I will always acknowledge that.  So just go ahead and show your measurements.   

It is easy to write about coils and earth wire going stone cold: make a video with temperature measurements by an infra thermometer.

And I have already explained to you: when an LC circuit is excited by an AC current whose frequency is the same as the resonant frequency of the LC circuit, the EM field (which includes the magnetic field of course) definitely increases to a maximum and then decreases as you tune the circuit out of resonance, your flux meter can show that.  But you have not shown any extra output power or energy: why?

When you attach a ground wire to the negative or to the positive of your big coil, the first big question is whether your coil is driven fully ground independently or not by your gate driver (or by your function generator)? 
Normally, the negative of the gate driver is at ground mainly from the function generator and / or from your power supply and this ground may connect to the mains ground what then you connect to a ground wire: you need to check for possible ground loops etc.  And in such situation when you ground the other side (the positive one) of the big coil you virtually kill or greatly attenuate the resonant voltage across the coil.  Demonstrate it if these are not so. 

Gyula

Offline tomd

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #524 on: June 12, 2019, 02:19:02 AM »
I think this thread which discusses electrostatic induction rather than magnetic induction may apply to Don's circuits.
https://overunity.com/18239/the-solution/msg535167/#new

 

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