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Author Topic: Confirmation of OU devices and claims  (Read 191188 times)

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #405 on: May 07, 2019, 05:28:10 PM »
Quote

Well, there was no 100 uF cap and 1 kHz frequency written in benfr's post.
Well, thats strange as I can go straight to it with the pointer I gave you on my machine!

AG, I simply do not get what you mean in your 2nd sentence? What pointer did you give ?

Quote

That only works on caps and resistance if you try it with caps and inductance you won't get the same result and I can't find any equation for such a setup.


I just checked the 90 degree phase shift Itsu measured, it is the attachment rick LC.png here:
https://overunity.com/17491/confirmation-of-ou-devices-and-claims/msg533810/#msg533810   

Now I see that in his practical setup (not the simulation) the 100 pF with the 163 uH coil cannot give 1.162 MHz resonant frequency but a 115 pF cap can give resonance. So his probe was in parallel with the 100 pF so it detuned a little the circuit from resonance and that is which may have caused the 88 degree phase shift between generator and capacitor voltage he checked. 

If you use this calculator what member benfr gave: https://www.translatorscafe.com/unit-converter/ja/calculator/series-rlc-impedance/   and enter 100 pF and 163 uH with 1162 kHz frequency, then you get nearly 74.4 degree phase angle, close to 88 degree what Itsu measured by scope (use R= 50 Ohm series resistance).
BUT his main goal with that measurement was first to show the Q times voltage amplification across the reactive components versus the generator voltage at resonance, this was correct even if exact fine tuning was not shown.  His second goal was to ask whether voltage amplification at resonance in a series LC circuit gives "overunity" ? 

Here is a good link for revising the calculation of series RLC circuits:
https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/accircuits/series-circuit.html   


Yes, this thread is supposed to deal with confirmation of OU devices but so far this TX-RX setup failed in practice in this respect.

Anyway,   giving more courtesy towards all the members here is the polite way for communicating.
Gyula

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #405 on: May 07, 2019, 05:28:10 PM »

Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #406 on: May 07, 2019, 10:03:21 PM »
Itsu Hi Just a simple question, around page 20 you show a scope shot of a two trace align wave about 90 deg out of phase without digesting the whole thread how did you get that waveform > is it from a circuit or emulation and if a circuit have you a drawing I can view, please. many thanks, AG

Also before that, you show a square wave would that be created the same way?

again if you could please advise.

Offline itsu

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #407 on: May 08, 2019, 11:23:49 AM »

AG,

Gyula pointed (linked) in his above post to the specific post on page 20 you refer to.

 
All info on those 2 screenshots (1st one from the sim, 2th one from my real circuit/scope) are in that post.

Just picture the circuit drawn (see below), then for MY REAL CIRCUIT, picture the purple trace probe (CH3)
across V1 (FG and whole LRC), ground lead left (-), probe tip right (+).
I seem to have INVERTED the purple signal, so in real it should be flipped over (180°).

Then picture the blue trace probe (CH2) across C1 (series Cap), ground lead also left, probe tip right.


The reason for the voltages across the RLC (purple) and the C (blue) being 90° off is explained in a link i
presented a few post later to benfr (post # 295) where i wrote:

Quote
Please read up on series resonance circuits:
https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/accircuits/series-resonance.html

Under "Impedance in a Series Resonance Circuit"


There it reads:

Quote
We recall from the previous tutorial about series RLC circuits that the voltage across a series combination
is the phasor sum of VR, VL and VC. Then if at resonance the two reactances are equal and cancelling, the
two voltages representing VL and VC must also be opposite and equal in value thereby cancelling each other
out because with pure components the phasor voltages are drawn at +90o and -90o respectively.

So (in resonance) compared to the "view" from across the whole RLC (purple), the signal across L and C are
resp. +90° and -90° (remember my purple trace is inverted) out of phase. 

Hope this clears it up.



Concerning this question:

Quote
Also before that, you show a square wave would that be created the same way?

I guess you mean my post #271 on page 19.

There i refer to Benfr his setup, see sim circuit (cap, coil, cap, coil, cap, coil in series) with parallel
across it a load (R1) and the FG (V1).

The square wave signal in both the SIM (green) and in my screenshot (blue and white) are from across the FG (V1).
The green (sim) and blue signals are when NOT in resonance (nice squares), the white one is what happens when
IN resonance (the resonance signal loads the FG in such a way that it forms these troughs.

Regards Itsu 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #407 on: May 08, 2019, 11:23:49 AM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #408 on: May 08, 2019, 08:58:31 PM »
Hi Itsu,
Thanks for the additional work you have assigned for this topic.
Gyula

Offline a.king21

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #409 on: May 09, 2019, 07:03:50 AM »
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Offline benfr

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #410 on: May 09, 2019, 10:34:50 AM »
Hello,

it is also possible to bring an oscillator in the game to see wonderful waveforms show what it does look like to observe directly energy mutiplication. In this case, plug the oscilloscope to the end of the coil and between the coil and the capacitor. It WILL modify the frequency of resonance. when dealing with that, you will observe in the most simple setup such as    L 157 uF - C 100 pF and a 4 V LED, the LED lighting by 1.2 V or so (allow up to 1.9 as I don't recall). THEN, what is input is indeed a SQUARE wave of approx. 1.2 MHZ, and the frequency with the VOLTAGE amplification tank is transformed into a SINE wave. The sine wave is uniformly higher than the input , at all times, at comparable time spans , at it seems. Hence this explains how the LED can be lighted, while, if we had directly plugged the Freq Gen at the LED, would have done nothing.
When the LED is bright, change the frequency by 100KHZ down. Then the sine wave becomes a flatline, and "you know what a flatline means to most people" to quote Rick, and the LED stops being lighted. This is a system out of resonance where no amplification has taken place. Get back 100KHZ higher as before : now the SINE wave appears , and the LED brings light ! Note that using this setup with an oscilloscope is also putting the oscilloscope itself into resonance.
From Rick Friedrich's Resonant Induction Coupler Kit, exercice 1.b.

Offline benfr

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #411 on: May 09, 2019, 10:40:14 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQdcwDCBoNY

Thanks, looks like exactly what I am trying to deal with here  :D

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #411 on: May 09, 2019, 10:40:14 AM »
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Offline itsu

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #412 on: May 09, 2019, 10:54:25 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQdcwDCBoNY

Thanks Aking21,

a golden oldie, nicely demonstrating the effect of low impedance at series resonance and high impedance with parallel resonance.

Itsu

Offline hdeasy

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #413 on: May 09, 2019, 11:27:26 AM »
Interesting experiment indeed with the resonance impedance transformer. Have there been tests confirming lower losses in the primary circuit than in the secondary? If so, it is indeed a good way to free energy. Or is it the case that the V²/R losses in the primary balance those in the secondary?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #413 on: May 09, 2019, 11:27:26 AM »
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Offline lancaIV

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #414 on: May 09, 2019, 11:39:34 AM »
Interesting experiment indeed with the resonance impedance transformer. Have there been tests confirming lower losses in the primary circuit than in the secondary? If so, it is indeed a good way to free energy. Or is it the case that the V²/R losses in the primary balance those in the secondary?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kQdcwDCBoNY
Comments :
Answer to NaboOOo, 8 years before :   3V 300 mA ~ 12 V 75 mA, fine tuning of light his colour

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #415 on: May 09, 2019, 11:47:07 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQdcwDCBoNY
You can find explanations from the maker of the video, Tortuga0303 in the Comments section under the video.  I collected the most relevant explanations:   
 
"it was a 11 volt signal generator with 50 ohm impedance. 12 volt bulb. this is an impedance matching trick" 

"A series LC acts as a short circuit at resonance, while a parallel LC acts like a huge impedance. "

"The bulbs take some  3v 300ma to light up. The input is 12v. Therefore it is possible that the input be say 12 v @ 75ma. Then through the impedance matching quality of the transformer, the output is reduced to 3v 300ma. power going in and out is the same, but one is of the correct quality to light the bulb and the other is not. "

"The bulbs need several hundred miliamps to light. Below this threshold they are dim if not lit at all.
The first bulb has going through it 12v, but few miliamps making it dim. The second bulb is impedance matched bringing the 12 v down, and the amperage up, therefore lighting the second bulb. All the power is going through the first bulb, but in a form which is not suitable for its incandescence. "

"I think you will find this is not more power out than in. This is because you are using a resistive load, and when all things are considered, the last thing you want to add into the equation is resistance. But bubs make for good visuals. This is simply a place to start to learn the basics.-"

"people often ask the specifics, however there is no magic frequency. It is all dependent on the physical parameters, i.e. inductance and capacitance. What you do need to know is that they are tuned to the SAME frequency, driven at square wave. If they were driven with sine wave, you would see the EXACT same form on the ol O-scope, pure sine wave, due to being run at resonance. Driving voltage was 11 volts."

This says it all.  Nice demo for impedance matching and no overunitiy. 

Gyula

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #415 on: May 09, 2019, 11:47:07 AM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #416 on: May 09, 2019, 12:12:55 PM »
...

it is also possible to bring an oscillator in the game to see wonderful waveforms show what it does look like to observe directly energy multiplication.

....
From Rick Friedrich's Resonant Induction Coupler Kit, exercice 1.b.
Hi benfr,
Please understand the following comment from Tortuga0303, the maker of the video a.king referred to:

"The bulbs take some  3v 300ma to light up. The input is 12v. Therefore it is possible that the input be say 12 v @ 75ma. Then through the impedance matching quality of the transformer, the output is reduced to 3v 300ma. power going in and out is the same,  but one is of the correct quality to light the bulb and the other is not. "   
 
So there is no energy multiplication happening.  In fact, there is no more output power in the secondary LC circuits than what was input to the primary (the transmitter) coil / circuit.  Itsu's measurements clearly showed the facts.
Gyula

Offline benfr

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #417 on: May 09, 2019, 12:34:19 PM »
Hi benfr,
Please understand the following comment from Tortuga0303, the maker of the video a.king referred to:

"The bulbs take some  3v 300ma to light up. The input is 12v. Therefore it is possible that the input be say 12 v @ 75ma. Then through the impedance matching quality of the transformer, the output is reduced to 3v 300ma. power going in and out is the same,  but one is of the correct quality to light the bulb and the other is not. "   
 
So there is no energy multiplication happening.  In fact, there is no more output power in the secondary LC circuits than what was input to the primary (the transmitter) coil / circuit.  Itsu's measurements clearly showed the facts.
Gyula

Hi Gyula, that video is interesting, I agree it does not show any OU as it is not demonstrating that. What is interesting is the "stealth" of frequency between the two coils, because it is a real door to understand more about resonance, the author makes reference to that when he quotes that the 2 coils are 'matched'. However, coil matching at resonance is a matter that is not explored in the video, in an explicit way, for it has several dimensions : wavelength, capacitance, inductance, rate of change, disruptive discharge, and others.

When you say "..So there is no multiplication happening", indeed there is ! And this multiplication has no end if one desires to multiply the components producing that I described with the 3 series LC tanks  that are in series with each other.
Energy demultiplication can also be seen on an oscillocope, beyond lighting a 95 V 1.9 mA bulb (my NE2), or , a 4 V LED ; respectively from a 13V and a 1.x V input, as described in my most recent post.
There is no way you can deny energy amplification if you can show to light a LED or bulb with no change in the input and by the simple dial of the resonant frequency, and not lighting anymore with a discrete modification on the dial all other things being equal...

Offline lancaIV

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #418 on: May 09, 2019, 01:14:37 PM »
benfr : DC 3 Volt to 12 Volt = energy amplification, but does not indicate power amplification
           
            When you have " power amplification": which source becomes harvest ?
            When you are beside : your body waves emission ?
             

 From the ambient ? ( Non / enclosed )Oxygen to Ozone ionising ,dehumidifying( Enthalpy gains) !                   https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_ioniser

Offline benfr

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #419 on: May 09, 2019, 01:30:05 PM »
benfr : DC 3 Volt to 12 Volt = energy amplification, but does not indicate power amplification
           

Power and energy : those terms aren't coined properly. Are you saying that power as amperage ? energy as voltage ?

           
            When you have " power amplification": which source becomes harvest ?
            When you are beside : your body waves emission ?
           
Please rephrase your questions, I do not understand.

 

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