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Author Topic: Confirmation of OU devices and claims  (Read 199097 times)

Offline seaad

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #345 on: May 02, 2019, 07:36:27 AM »
Questions:

The blue input voltage signal ITSU shows is not a square signal.

1) Why do we use a Square Wave input in this experiment  and  not a Sinus Wave?
       Resonant circuits can only handle one frequency at a time and that is even more valid when using coupled circuits tuned to the same frequency.
       That's how radio receivers selects different radio stations from each other.

2) From this:
 http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1374896&seqNum=7
We can assume that the ITSU  first harmonic (resonance 1.578Khz) is weaker than the (square) 5Volt p-p.

quote: "For example, an ideal square wave with 50% duty-cycle and 0 v to 1 v transition has a first harmonic amplitude of 0.63 v."

ITSU 5Volt p-p >  5x 0.63 V ( Nota Bene; ideal)  =3.15V    ( RMS or p-p ???)


Vortex1 (all)
3) Does the the coupling factors or total energy transfer  be different  in this case maybe because we use a transmission (coupling) from
the coil part in a series resonance circuit (gen.)  to a parallel resonance circuit

  compared with (common radio)  parallel resonance circuit coupled to a parallel resonance circuit(s) ??

My guess is that they are equivalent

Regards Arne
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 12:28:03 PM by seaad »

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #345 on: May 02, 2019, 07:36:27 AM »

Offline Hoppy

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #346 on: May 02, 2019, 10:02:41 AM »
Excellent post Vortex1.

Offline benfr

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #347 on: May 02, 2019, 10:06:51 AM »
If you want to build
the bigger coil pm me and I will give you the specs. (You also need 5nf caps in parallel with each receiver coil.)

Hi king-o-reso ! I am interested on the specs you mention. In particular the gate driver, which I have right there before me but I'm unusre of the soldering so the schematics to be able to rebuild one one day. Could share them may be privately if you find it more relevant ?
Thanks a lot !!
Yours sincerely,
Benfr

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #347 on: May 02, 2019, 10:06:51 AM »
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Offline lancaIV

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #348 on: May 02, 2019, 10:31:58 AM »
So #344 related :

Mutual inductance

Coupling factor or coefficient K

Turns ratio

The K factor easy demonstrated : the attraction/ repulsion force between two permanent or electric magnets                                               
                                                                             dependent from their distance

Why and how shall the device generate surplus power?  Mathematically and physically. ?
How do we treat " inrush" , like a resistanceless superconduction. ? Inrush pulsation  !

Using lamps as indicator :
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fde.m.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFlimmerverschmelzungsfrequenz

Offline itsu

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #349 on: May 02, 2019, 10:53:29 AM »

Gyula,

The DC resistance of my coils are 1.5 Ohm.
Its gonna be fun then tuning the 6 coils for max. performance  :o
By the way, the frequency is of course 1.578Mhz, not 1.578Khz.


LancaIV

Quote
So the first question : how much real input power ? pulsed P to P = ( UxZ)x(IxZ)     = 25,6 mW ?
I let my scope calculate the instantaneous power over the signals (voltage/current) it receives, should be OK.


Vortex1,

thanks for the info/comments, they are appreciated.
Lets see what happens when adding the additional coils.


Seaad,

The blue signal is originally a square wave, but gets distorted by the resonance it encounters.
We need a sharp on/off time of the pulse for the magic to happen it seems, so a sine wave would not do that.


Itsu


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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #349 on: May 02, 2019, 10:53:29 AM »
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Offline lancaIV

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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #351 on: May 02, 2019, 12:52:07 PM »
Hi forest,

We are off topic here, so I apologize from all the members here.

1) I agree that Tesla wanted to disturb the 'electrical equilibrium' near and or in the vicinity of his antenna but I do not know whether he expected to tap the external energy higher than the amount he invested as the input for disturbing. What you quoted from him in this 1st paragraph, it refers already to his wireless energy transfer tests. I think once he mentioned efficiency obtainable in energy transfer through the Earth as 94%-95% or around that.   
 

2) Well, in the text you quote from him, he refers back to his single wire energy transfer tests where he found that high currents went through the wire i.e. it was capable to transfer high current. Note that in case of the single wire transfer, the remote end of this single wire must have been connected to the receiver means while the 2nd wire was the Earth. And his next step was to get rid of the single wire too, hence the wireless energy transfer test came. And doing the wireless tests he expected to transfer also high currents via the antenna wire, the top of which had "all short of devices [attached] to constitute the capacity" and even though all this elevated structure was insulated, the energy transfer took place -- this is how I understand here his text. On elevated structure I mean a certain lenght of wire with capacitive end loading, driven from an AC generator and the other terminal of the generator was grounded. These tests was leading him eventually to the magnifying transmitter. He wanted to disturb the Earth natural resonant frequency which is around 11.6 Hz (cannot recall the decimal exactly but not the Schumann resonance!) and then the oscillating Earth could feed receivers built on many points on the surface.   

Gyula

Gyula
1. "  My idea at that time was that I would disturb the electrical equilibrium in the nearby portions of the earth, and the equilibrium being disturbed, this could then be utilized to bring into operation in any way some instrument" 

My understanding : my instrument should be able to disturb local Earth potential and make difference which can be utilized (power some other instruments) - the idea is to tap external energy
2. "I had already proved in my lecture at Columbia College that I could transmit energy through one wire; therefore, I was prepared to find that a current of considerable strength could be passed through this wire here [connecting the alternator to the elevated capacitor], although it was insulated. "
My understanding: the first part is utterly misleading (everybody thought he tried to move current inside the single wire ) but he is ONLY explaining that he can move charge in environment around because Earth is like single wire )of immense diameter) - the second part mach the previous text : "although it was insulated" - that part makes no sense if the charge is inside wire or insulated is elevated capacitor - because that is natural way to insulate electrical circuit to avoid looses.  So why he mentioned this ? Because he was about to move charges from the ground to the elevated capacitance or rather to the antenna. Energy from outside flow around the circuit - that's the only explanation I could find.
Now maybe I'm wrong, Tesla notes are very subtle and the real meaning seems deep hidden below the simple explanation, but after reading a lot some parts just start to do not match this simple explanation.


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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #351 on: May 02, 2019, 12:52:07 PM »
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Offline itsu

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #352 on: May 02, 2019, 01:09:15 PM »

This is what my Spectrum Analyzer picks up on harmonics with a probe near by the TX coil.
First with the square wave signal,
second with a sine wave signal:


Itsu

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #353 on: May 02, 2019, 02:11:04 PM »
Of Snakecoils and other things
....
In an air core transformer with multiple secondaries widely distanced from the
primary you cannot capture more power in the secondaries than is being input
regardless of the certainty of those who teach this. Because of the separation distance and low K,
 much of the primary power will not be useful to the
secondaries, and this is normally termed leakage inductance by engineers.
...
Also being espoused by the new "teachers" is that you need to resonate the secondaries to get the voltage to
increase. You may do this, but when you then place on the secondaries a useful
load, you wind up collapsing the high voltage that was created in resonance, killing
the Q of the resonant tank. The high resonance voltage is greatly reduced due to the
fact that power is delivered out of the resonant system at the same rate it is being
input, so there is little to nothing left for the resonant system to work with to
store energy and build a high voltage.
....
Thank you Itsu, for your actual power measurement  clearly demonstrates that the separation distance
 that creates  poor coupling (low K) greatly reduces power transfer in an ordinary air core transformer,
regardless of the resonant tuning of such. BTW, this fairly accurately agrees with simulations of the same.
...


Hi Vortex1,

Thanks for your post, I also agree with all you wrote.  I quoted only the most revelant sentences, to see them again. 

Anybody is free to prove COP > 1 performance in this setup by showing correct measurements if he does not agree with the thoughts expressed in Vortex1's text. 

Gyula

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #353 on: May 02, 2019, 02:11:04 PM »
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Offline Vortex1

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #354 on: May 02, 2019, 03:38:52 PM »
It seems there was a small typo error in Itsu's post #341

Quote
FG is set to resonance (1.578Khz) square wave 50% duty cycle, pulsed DC (like a gate driver would) and the screenshot shows:

Should this have read 1.578 MHz? As the later spectrum analyzer shots seem to verify it is 1.583MHz approximately, not kHz.

Edit: This has been addressed in post #349, which I missed.

These variable coupling transformers are "loosely related" to "loose couplers"

For more information on loose coupler transformers see here:

http://www.sparkmuseum.com/COUPLERS.HTM

http://peeblesoriginals.com/ppp/loosecoupler-radio.php

Coupling in these air core transformers can be high (tight) when the coils are nested and low (loose) when they are separated, hence the name.

Thanks to those that have approved my earlier "long winded" dissertation.

May I go out on a strong limb and predict that more power will not be available on multiple resonant secondaries than is input to the primary.

Prove this is wrong with accurate measurement by those who believe otherwise.

Regards

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #355 on: May 02, 2019, 03:49:39 PM »
Vortex1,
Itsu made already a correction on the frequency in his post #349,  line 4. 

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #355 on: May 02, 2019, 03:49:39 PM »
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Offline Vortex1

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #356 on: May 02, 2019, 03:52:49 PM »
Vortex1,
Itsu made already a correction on the frequency in his post #349,  line 4.

And so he has. I  apparently missed seeing the correction. I did an edit on my post in that regard. Thank you.

Regards

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #357 on: May 02, 2019, 10:22:16 PM »
Forgive me for asking... but is there some reason you aren't using autoresonating drivers for your transmitters? A phase-locked loop, or an E-field antenna trigger, or even an autoresonating LC tank like a Royer or Mazilli oscillator? It seems rather strange to me to be using a FG for the primary clock, unless there is something really specific about a particular frequency that is being tested -- and if that's the case you should be using a crystal oscillator. If you really start getting good high voltage performance you may find your function generator doesn't like it very much. (By good HV I mean tens of kV at least. A couple kV is child's play when you are talking about Tesla's systems.)
But carry on, have fun. But you might actually like to view my wireless power transmission videos, especially the last few TinselKoil vids. I'm not selling anything!



Offline itsu

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #358 on: May 02, 2019, 10:25:01 PM »

I completed the 2th RX and added the gate driver (IXDD614) on the TX, see picture.

With 9V on the driver and tuned to resonance (1.627Mhz now) with the FG (3Vpp pulsed DC 50% duty cycle)
i have the below shown signals see screenshot.

Blue is the input to the gate driver
Purple is the output from the gate driver
Yellow is the signal across the series cap.

I guess some filtering needs to be done.

The tuning with 2 Receivers is already tricky, so let alone with 5.


Itsu


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #359 on: May 02, 2019, 10:37:53 PM »
Heh... at that frequency you are most probably operating in a pure EM mode, so you don't have to worry about "real HV". You may find that you can achieve "supernova mode" close coupling that does not result in a 1/r2 falloff with distance (to a certain limit.) Your receivers seem to be essentially the same as used in my system. The main difference is that I use coils of much lower inductance (and hence less power-wasting in ohmic resistance) and autoresonating drivers, in this case a Royer oscillator:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x2YfA9LU5s


 

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