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Author Topic: Confirmation of OU devices and claims  (Read 192993 times)

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #150 on: November 17, 2017, 07:07:35 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4d8PHDG4yE

Seriously, the issue of how "exact" to get during a replication is a gnarly one. The persons skilled in the art should be able to tell what is truly important and what is not, or would be interested in finding out through experiment as you suggest. Soft iron bolts? Right there one becomes suspicious because a soft iron bolt is about as useful as spaghetti suspenders or a jello frisbee. But OK, we've all encountered less-than-Grade 3 crap that breaks or strips when you put any torque on it. And how could thread pitch possibly matter, one asks oneself. But you can bet your bippy that, should TinMan's or anyone else's "exact replication" fail to perform as claimed, someone from the Church of Bedini will claim that the replication wasn't exact enough. We've all seen this happen many times. Even though those claimants and complainants cannot do it themselves, they still think they can tell other people how to do it.


"But you can bet your bippy that, should TinMan's or anyone else's "exact replication" fail to perform as claimed, someone from the Church of Bedini will claim that the replication wasn't exact enough."

Ok, well lets just stick to the subject of should it fail to perform. ::)

What if someone does it straight up and it does not fail?
 
Do you think that the builders should veer from trying to be as 'close as possible'? Is that a good strategy?

Mags



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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #150 on: November 17, 2017, 07:07:35 AM »

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #151 on: November 17, 2017, 07:27:02 AM »
Well, now we are back to my question up above, which you seem to have ignored or misinterpreted. What if someone had access to several actual devices built by and under the supervision of Bedini himself, and they don't turn out to work as Bedini and his acolytes claimed? Here there is no issue about whether or not the "replications" are exact enough, because the great JB advised, built and signed off on them himself. Do these things only work when operated by Bedini himself? Well I guess we are "SOOL" then.

And if the results claimed by Bedini and his disciples DO show up in someone's replication, then is the time for experiments to begin, to see what is the cause of those results. Are the artefacts of interpretation or measurement? Are they indications of real overunity performance? But first the results claimed need to be reproduced reliably, and so far that hasn't happened.

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #152 on: November 17, 2017, 11:04:58 AM »
Well, now we are back to my question up above, which you seem to have ignored or misinterpreted. What if someone had access to several actual devices built by and under the supervision of Bedini himself, and they don't turn out to work as Bedini and his acolytes claimed? Here there is no issue about whether or not the "replications" are exact enough, because the great JB advised, built and signed off on them himself. Do these things only work when operated by Bedini himself? Well I guess we are "SOOL" then.

And if the results claimed by Bedini and his disciples DO show up in someone's replication, then is the time for experiments to begin, to see what is the cause of those results. Are the artefacts of interpretation or measurement? Are they indications of real overunity performance? But first the results claimed need to be reproduced reliably, and so far that hasn't happened.

I didnt ignore it. I saw it before. Im not going to entertain a hypothetical based all on negatives. If I had a company and and you worked for me in this field and you talked like this all the time Id pull a Trump and 'Your Fired'! I would want people that are not indulging in the negative before things begin. I would want people that are excited and have a positive outlook about this work. Thats not you.  But, continue on. That was my hypothetical return. :P

Sorry Brad. Didnt mean to muddy it up here.

Mags
« Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 07:33:50 AM by Magluvin »

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #152 on: November 17, 2017, 11:04:58 AM »
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Offline wattsup

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #153 on: November 17, 2017, 03:16:00 PM »
Wattsie, today's "ordinary" COTS motors and generators are already 80 to 90 percent of the way to OU. If we combine that with a lever system that gets us 3/4 of the way to OU... we have 0.9 x 0.75 = 0.675 of the way to OU !! 
(Corrected misattribution, sorry about that  :-[   )

@TinsieKoala

You can take those surface values to mean what you want. A motor may be 80% efficient at turning a fan but that same motor may be 40% efficient in turning a loaded OU device working against real drag. That's why I am saying that by properly using leverage in these builds it provides another input source for the electric forces. Besides you can have a 90% efficient motor or generator but still be 500% away from making anything OU with it.

@Grumage and @all

Nice wheel. So your wheel magnets have a lifting power of how many pounds? What are the dimensions of the magnets? The small center hole means you will mount it at the end of a shaft of what diameter? So this is a fixed six magnet wheel a fixed (x) magnet strength and a fixed (y) distance from axis.

So again I go back to my last post. Of the millions of possible combinations of magnet size, strength, wheel diameter, number of magnets, etc, can we maybe understand why you chose this fixed combination.

OK, then the next step is pick up coils or other means of coupling. The variables are tremendous and at any point in this choosing of your next fixed values, each future decision could either help or hinder the overall outcome. I am not trying to be a pessimist here. Just trying to outline in such works where we usually go wrong because the fact is taking assumptions as reality pushes each of us to build things in the way we do, each step we take closes off future variables until we are squeezed into a small range of possibilities and outcomes.

Where does an OUer really start the R&D process? Does it start at the drive motor? If the total device includes a drive motor then maybe that is the first place to stop and investigate. So you take any drive motor. You make a magnet wheel but now, instead of fixing a distance from axis you make a way of being able to change the distance from axis against a fixed iron core coil. The question is "With this drive motor is there an ideal magnet size, strength and distance from axis that will enable the particular drive motor to both cut through drag and maintain speed? If that first question is not answered by stand alone R&D then this just started on the wrong footing.

What I am trying to say without sounding pessimistic or negative to all efforts is this. With many people having the ability to do concerted R&D into OU, is it not better to divide the myriad of variables into smaller parts, investigate each part on its own before deciding how to put it all together in the best manner possible.

In a perfect world of multi effort R&D is it not better for one person to do one part of the investigation as completely as possible while another does another part and so on so all can learn from the smaller tests how the bigger picture can come together.

So should the magnet wheel be produced first or only after one knows the loaded rpm of the drive motor and the desired frequency of the output that will be fed back to the drive motor as a loop? Or do you start with the pick up coil variables finding out what rpm and frequency will produce the desired output and amperage, to then know which drive motor and how to build the magnet wheel? What comes first? There has to be a logical method of R&D or any of these factors just "guessed" will change the totality of the outcome and become more of a lottery draw then a well thought out process.

I am convinced that with multiple talents on this forum, if all could be coordinated into one major effort, the growth of knowledge towards cause/effect would be tremendous, instead of this solo, slap together whatever and try it out however method that never works and leaves you with more questions then answers. I mean, are most of you not tired of these circular dead end results?

I can expand on what is required if guys want to embark on a real R&D mission which should always be first to learn and then discover the small nuances before you can master their combining forces and from the looks of it, many here already have the base prerequisites and wherewithal. Just remains to be seen if people can really work together and commit to one cause.

wattsup

Offline Void

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #154 on: November 17, 2017, 04:26:16 PM »
Now we have all the specs, there cant be any argument about it not being an exact replication.

Trying to find soft iron bolts is turning out to be a challenge.
Soft steel -no problem. Soft iron-big problem.
May have to make some from some soft iron rod.

Hi Brad. Bedini used to recommend using a certain type of welding rod for the coil cores:
https://energy-tesla.com/john-bedini-monopole-generators/
"For the coil, just use an old solder roll or a bobbin you get wire on, cut and fill the center hole with .030 welding rod . This works really well."

Some people have mentioned R45 or R60 welding rods, but in 2010 Bedini mentioned the following:
http://www.energeticforum.com/122754-post623.html
"Also the welding rods have changed from the time I first started using them, the iron retains a magnetic bias in the new material, not good."

Bedini also mentions in this same comment that he never uses neo magnets as they can saturate the core if they are too strong.
I am not sure if that also applies to this type of energizer setup as well however:
"I will state this again I never use Neo magnets with these motors because they do saturate the cores I do not want that at all. If you saturate the core then you must use a lot of current in the system I do not want that either."
This might only apply to a different Bedini setup, such as Bedini's monopole trifilar wound generator.
Neo magnets might be fine in this type of setup.

I have seen some people in the past mentioning using 'iron garden wire' to make soft iron cores, 
but I am not sure if it is suitable. For example, I think they may mean this type of wire:
https://www.amazon.com/Garden-Heavy-Green-Coated-Training/dp/B00VKMIGMQ/

Otherwise soft iron rod may be suitable if you can find some.
However, Lindemann stated that Jim Watson used 'steel bolts' for his coil cores in both
of his machines, so, if that is accurate, then it may not be that critical.


All the best...


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #154 on: November 17, 2017, 04:26:16 PM »
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Offline Grumage

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #155 on: November 17, 2017, 04:38:10 PM »
Dear wattsup.

For me personally the use of the @ symbol I find mildly offensive. Grumage, Grum or just plain Graham will do nicely.   :)

To answer your initial questions the rotor made from Polycarbonate measures 168 mm diameter and is
9.5 mm thick. The centre hole is 8 mm. I’m intending to use a 10 mm diameter Silver Steel shaft with the end turned down to suit the disc. I have a pair of 6000 C3 bearings to support the assembly.

The magnets are old Neodymium measuring 15 mm by 4 mm and can just hold 900 grams of Steel billet.

More information to come as my build progresses.

Cheers Graham.

Offline Void

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #156 on: November 17, 2017, 05:10:05 PM »
For me personally the use of the @ symbol I find mildly offensive. Grumage, Grum or just plain Graham will do nicely.   :)

Hi Grumage. Some people put the '@' symbol in front of a name to help draw attention that this portion of the
comment is directed to a specific person. There is nothing offensive intended when people use the '@' symbol
like that. :)


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #156 on: November 17, 2017, 05:10:05 PM »
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Offline Grumage

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #157 on: November 17, 2017, 05:23:44 PM »
Hi Grumage. Some people put the '@' symbol in front of a name to help draw attention that this portion of the
comment is directed to a specific person. There is nothing offensive intended when people use the '@' symbol
like that. :)

Dear Void.

Well perhaps it’s my age or just plain old fashioned, I don’t particularly like it. My problem, I guess.

Cheers Graham.

Offline Jeg

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #158 on: November 17, 2017, 05:42:59 PM »
I wonder if transformer laminates are more appropriate (as I have many of them).
I also salvaged an electric screwdriver and took out its 18V 1800RPM motor. I'll report its performance even I have spotted an old AC universal one. Looks like it can be converted for dc input operation. 

My question guys is what are you going to use as for the heavy iron disk? Is anything other except of a car that can be salvaged??
 


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #158 on: November 17, 2017, 05:42:59 PM »
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Offline Grumage

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #159 on: November 17, 2017, 06:17:49 PM »
Hi Jeg.

This is one of the areas of conjecture, I’m rather lucky as I have many different cast Iron flywheels to choose from. But what size/weight, 20 Lbs is quite a mass? Are we looking to just carry the drive motor over the off period of the commutator? Would 14 Lbs be ok?

Now whilst we’re in “ contemplation mode “  :)

How many previous tinkerers actually used a “ wet “ Lead acid battery for the device. I know I didn’t. Could there be a difference at the “ Ionic “ level? It’s the Ionic reversal that was supposed to be the MO according to what I’ve read.

Cheers Graham.

Offline Void

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #160 on: November 17, 2017, 08:09:18 PM »
Hi Jeg.
This is one of the areas of conjecture, I’m rather lucky as I have many different cast Iron flywheels to choose from. But what size/weight, 20 Lbs is quite a mass? Are we looking to just carry the drive motor over the off period of the commutator? Would 14 Lbs be ok?
Now whilst we’re in “ contemplation mode “  :)
How many previous tinkerers actually used a “ wet “ Lead acid battery for the device. I know I didn’t. Could there be a difference at the “ Ionic “ level? It’s the Ionic reversal that was supposed to be the MO according to what I’ve read.
Cheers Graham.

Hi Grumage, Jeg.  I have been reading up on it in the last week, and I don't recall coming across
anything where Bedini stated anything specific in regards to the flywheel size.  As near as I can
tell, you want a flywheel that is big enough to keep everything up to speed during the 'time windows'
where the motor is off and the cap bank is discharging into the battery. Whether there is any advantage
to having an even larger flywheel can probably only be determined by experimentation at this point.
I have attached a blurry photo taken from 'Bedini's Free Energy Generator' 1984 PDF in case it helps. :)

Since Bedini seems to have indicated that his solid state battery pulsing chargers also have a
COP > 1, I am going to try to put these general battery pulsing principles that are used in various Bedini
setups to the test, since it is quite simple to setup. I have been wondering why Bedini spent so
many years on motor/generator setups rather than just focusing on pulsing batteries with simpler soild
state circuits. Maybe rotating a mass adds some 'gain' into the equation, or maybe there are other reasons,
but I haven't come across anything specific yet as to why Bedini focused so much on motor/generators.

All the best...


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #160 on: November 17, 2017, 08:09:18 PM »
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Offline Jeg

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #161 on: November 17, 2017, 08:59:30 PM »
Void, Grum
Thanks for the help, just to mention that in flywheels diameter comes first and weight is after as of an importancy.
In the meanwhile, I found a good source for cheap rotors of many different sizes.

 https://www.google.gr/search?q=cutting+wheels&dcr=0&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi9-cuuscbXAhWEvRoKHcfeCUMQ_AUICigB&biw=1093&bih=602&dpr=1.25

Offline citfta

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #162 on: November 17, 2017, 08:59:58 PM »
I wonder if transformer laminates are more appropriate (as I have many of them).
I also salvaged an electric screwdriver and took out its 18V 1800RPM motor. I'll report its performance even I have spotted an old AC universal one. Looks like it can be converted for dc input operation. 

My question guys is what are you going to use as for the heavy iron disk? Is anything other except of a car that can be salvaged??

Hi Jeg,

Universal means the motor can run on either AC or DC.  There is no conversion needed.

Depending on how big you want the flywheel to be you can probably salvage one from a small engine like from a lawn and garden tractor.  This should give you something in the range of 20 t0 30 pounds depending on the size of the engine.  Check your local small engine repair shops.  They will probably give you a few to experiment with as they usually have several dozen junk engines laying around.

Carroll

Offline Jeg

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #163 on: November 17, 2017, 09:10:38 PM »
 Cool Carol thanks!!! I'll search for it probably tomorrow.

About the motor i was thinking to open it and connect the field coils in series. Do you think that they are already in series? First build with motors and have some difficulties to locate and gather everything.

About the flywheel again I see two options. First is to mount the flywheel on the same axis as the rotor. But I don't feel safe when thinking a mass of that size to rotate so fast. Second option is to mount it in separate axis and divide the rotations number, but more complicated. What is your opinion on this?

Offline Jeg

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #164 on: November 17, 2017, 10:18:55 PM »
I have been wondering why Bedini spent so
many years on motor/generator setups rather than just focusing on pulsing batteries with simpler soild
state circuits. Maybe rotating a mass adds some 'gain' into the equation, or maybe there are other reasons,
but I haven't come across anything specific yet as to why Bedini focused so much on motor/generators.

Never played with Bedini ideas. What triggered me with this replication is that it combines  many forms of energy, and looks possible to transform them in a constructive way so to counteract the Lenz effect.           

 

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