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Author Topic: No potential energy at start but a work  (Read 3923 times)

EOW

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 383
No potential energy at start but a work
« on: November 04, 2017, 03:55:51 PM »
The device uses springs, shapes but :

No mass
No gravity
No friction
All volumes are constant
3 dimensions
Closed device

Blue color: small spheres like molecules of water but no mass and no friction.
White disks: nothing in it.
Each blue sphere is attract by a spring. Each spring is attached at the green line. At a time, the orientation of the springs are the same but change when the device is deformed.
The container keeps its volume constant.

I have 2 choices for deformed the device:

1/ I don't move out/in the spheres

At start, the orientation of the springs is 45° at final it is 90° (vertical).
The potential energy at start is near 0: very few volume of blue spheres
The potential energy at final is near 0 too.
The work of the walls is 0 because even the spheres give a pressure more important at right than at left, the white disks give more pressure at rigth than at left.

So, the sum of energy is conserved.

2/ I move out/in the spheres

At start, the orientation of the springs is 45°, at final it is 22.5°
The potential energy at start and at final is near 0.
The work of the walls is near 0.
But for move in/out the spheres I need an energy.
The blue spheres move to the right inside the container because the angle is more and more lower but this don't give or need an energy.

EOW

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 383
Re: No potential energy at start but a work
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2017, 09:34:17 AM »
I don't need the white disks, just the walls, the blue spheres and the springs.

The device is at start like the first image and at final like the second image. The red line shows the orientation of the springs.

When I move out the spheres at right and move in the spheres at left, I rotate the walls counterclockwise but not the full angle, just the half angle. AND in the same time I move to the rigth the blue spheres inside the device of half length. Imagine the blue spheres move out/in perpendicularly to the image. When a sphere moves perpendicularly, it let a space at left and at right. A space is for the wall and a space is for the blue spheres.

Potential E at start: 0.707
Potential E at final: 0.5
Work from walls: 0.707-0.5
Energy needed by spheres to move in/out: 0.707-0.5

« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 12:35:18 PM by EOW »

EOW

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 383
Re: No potential energy at start but a work
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2017, 07:19:10 PM »
The spheres that move out/in move move up/down (on the new image), only up and down, not left and right. The walls and the spheres inside the container move left/right only.

The solution is based on:

- a part of the spheres move  out/in
- a part of the spheres move inside the container

So, the solution must have:

1/ Move out/in something from/to a pressure because in the contrary Noether is applicable
2/ I need a choice to choose the road
3/ A part must move inside the pressure, another part must move outside the pressure

I broke the principle of least action.

CVbcwfbezb

EOW

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 383
Re: No potential energy at start but a work
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2017, 09:42:13 AM »
And to create the energy: start to the final position to go to the initial

EOW

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 383
Re: No potential energy at start but a work
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2017, 11:53:01 AM »
It is incredible, the solution is here and nobody reply ?