Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

A-Ads

MN LiveCoach

Masternodes Live Coaching

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics


  • *Total Posts: 512814
  • *Total Topics: 15261
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 4
  • *Guests: 10
  • *Total: 14

Author Topic: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....  (Read 33891 times)

Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7617
Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #120 on: October 31, 2017, 05:27:53 PM »
Here is a simple thought experiment about the ignition circuit:

Firstly, let's list what the capacitor does in order of priority:

1.  It protects the contact points from arcing.
2.  It delays the onset of the ignition spark hence affecting the engine timing.
3.  It does an innocuous ring-down with the primary while the plasma burn is talking place and after the plasma burn has finished that does not affect the ignition process.

Here it the thought experiment:  Imagine that as soon as the capacitor has done its two main jobs, protecting the contact points and delaying the onset of the ignition spark that it was then cut out of the circuit only to reappear the next time it is needed.  So there is an "imaginary switch" that disconnects the capacitor at the right time.  In other words, you completely eliminate the resonance between the capacitor and the primary.  What would happen?

The answer is that nothing would happen.  The ignition circuit would perform essentially identically without the resonance happening at all.

And that is the critical thing that it appears some people might not be understanding.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline citfta

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 771
Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #121 on: October 31, 2017, 05:33:27 PM »
Well I received another long email from MileHigh in which he demanded that I retract my statement where I said I thought he had finally admitted he was wrong about how the ignition circuit works.  He insists he has NOT admitted he was wrong.  So there you have his final answer.  In spite of his posting of several videos that clearly show the ignition circuit does not work like he originally claimed, he still denies he was wrong.  So I do here and now admit I was wrong to claim he admitted he was wrong.  I will not be answering any further PMs or posts from MH.  I just don't have time for that right now.  In the past I have come to MH's defense when I believed he was right.  But I will not be a puppet for him when he is clearly wrong.

Carroll

Offline forest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3885
Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #122 on: October 31, 2017, 06:17:04 PM »
I wonder if this thread will be as long as  "energy amplification" thread  :-)  I suppose the only correct answer would give you Edwin Gray or Marvin Cole or whoever created the EV Gray motor ;-) he surely knew. Maybe Tito would be kind to answer but I don't think so

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #122 on: October 31, 2017, 06:17:04 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline forest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3885
Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #123 on: October 31, 2017, 06:19:55 PM »
I suspect that Kapanadze started with old car ignition coil, then moved to kind of replica with the third coil shorted and the secondary of third coil as output . I'm quite sure this is it.
If you know what you are doing then the output of car coil can be step down using third coil and a secondary to it (like in Tesla patent)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline citfta

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 771
Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #124 on: October 31, 2017, 08:30:06 PM »
After ANOTHER email questioning my intelligence I have discovered a neat feature if this forum.  If you go to your messages and look around a little you can find a link to setting up message rules.  When you click on that you then have the ability to automatically delete PMs from anyone you choose.  I think this will be a great way to end the constant barrage of PMs I have been getting.  The appropriate person has been added to my delete list.

Carroll

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #124 on: October 31, 2017, 08:30:06 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline SeaMonkey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1285
Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #125 on: October 31, 2017, 09:14:12 PM »
Quote from: Miles Higher
When it comes to an ignition circuit and what it actually does - produce
a spark across a spark plug gap, it's all about the secondary and the
primary is just a minor side-show.  You have to keep your eye on the ball.

The secondary is not induced by the oscillating primary.  Once the
secondary is finished doing the plasma burn which I suspect represents
more than 90% of the energy put into the core in the first place, only
then does the primary oscillate with the capacitor, and this has nothing
to do with the plasma generation.  It's just a harmless artifact of why the
capacitor was put there in the first place - to protect the points.

Repeat:  The capacitor is there to protect the points, it was not put
there to create a resonance with the primary to give you a more robust
spark.  As I said a few times already, it looks like the main reason for the
more robust spark is the capacitor prevents the arcing of the points which
represents a considerable loss of energy.  I also said there is a simple test
that can be done to check for this.

Miles has explained it correctly.  "Resonance" is not a factor in the process
of supplying High Voltage Energy to the Spark Plug by Inductive Discharge
of the Ignition Coil.

However, it is possible to construct an Electronic Ignition System which
will produce a rapid succession of sparks within a short time span in order
to improve combustion of the fuel/air mixture.  Racing Cars sometimes
employ such a system.  The Ford Model T Ignition System used Ignition
Coils with "buzzers" to produce such an effect many years ago.  The Model
T also enabled selection of Battery Ignition or Magneto by the driver at
will.  They don't make 'em today like they used to. ;)

Offline Magluvin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5771
Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #126 on: October 31, 2017, 09:14:39 PM »

Carrol Im sorry.  I did not make the CC list for all those in PM  I did have the right to reply to certain posts there.  If I had only replied to Mh then only his end of the story would be told there.

I really appreciate your view here as it reflects my view that MH will stop at nothing to quench the idea that resonance helps the spark to be more that it is without the cap.

He has attacked the idea from the very beginning that an LC resonance has anything to do with helping the circuit produce a better spark than we get without the cap installed. Even to the point of there is no resonant ring at all in the circuit, all the way up until just a few hours before I posted my vid showing the scope shots.

And I had posted my prediction 'here'  that he would now say there is a resonant ring, and now will have to come up with reasons why it still has nothing to do with making a better spark.  And he did so.

I just got back on here since last night.  A lot to go over and I have a lot of other things to do today.

Will be back later

Mags


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #126 on: October 31, 2017, 09:14:39 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline SeaMonkey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1285
Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #127 on: October 31, 2017, 09:38:38 PM »
The waveform images that Miles posted earlier are
very informative.

There are oscillations in the Primary Circuit during
the time that the Breaker Points are Open.  It is
possible to see that the oscillations occur at two
distinctly different frequencies:  during spark burn
time the frequency is higher than the frequency
which appears following spark burn time.

Why is this so?

Also, why is there no evidence of oscillation in the
Secondary Circuit until after the spark has
extinguished?

Answer those questions and you'll have mastered
the Operation of the Kettering Ignition System.

Offline Magluvin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5771
Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #128 on: October 31, 2017, 10:05:23 PM »
Here is a PM from MH That I want to respond to.   There were * people in the CC list and carrol was not included there, but was attacked in the post, so...




"I am going to assume that most of you people reading the above get it.  You get that the "resonance" has nothing of substance to do with the operation of the circuit, which is essentially what I have been saying the whole time.  I said that there was "no resonance" and it turns out that there was "inconsequential resonance that had nothing to do with the plasma spark generation."

So why pray tell was Magluvin saying that I am an "anti-resonance shill" or "paid by the powers that be."  Magluvin will be lucky if he gets 100 views on his ignition circuit videos over the next 18 months!  And this is not only Magluvin here, these types of accusations are thrown around all the time.  You just want to discuss a circuit and get it right, and you are accused of being an agent for the National Security Agency.  I got so much shit for just trying to discuss the reality of the ignition circuit and I got dragged through the mud for the 100th time.

Final thoughts from Carroll:  <<<  In the past I have come to MH's defense when I believed he was right.  But I will not be a puppet for him when he is clearly wrong. >>>

What Carroll is saying is almost as bad but at least he doesn't think I work for the bloody CIA.  He turned himself into a clown with his statement and his "explanation" for the ignition circuit was bullshit
."


Here in the first paragraph....

"I am going to assume that most of you people reading the above get it.  You get that the "resonance" has nothing of substance to do with the operation of the circuit, which is essentially what I have been saying the whole time.  I said that there was "no resonance" and it turns out that there was "inconsequential resonance that had nothing to do with the plasma spark generation."

Just as I predicted before showing my vid...And then ....


"So why pray tell was Magluvin saying that I am an "anti-resonance shill" or "paid by the powers that be."  Magluvin will be lucky if he gets 100 views on his ignition circuit videos over the next 18 months!  And this is not only Magluvin here, these types of accusations are thrown around all the time.  You just want to discuss a circuit and get it right, and you are accused of being an agent for the National Security Agency.  I got so much shit for just trying to discuss the reality of the ignition circuit and I got dragged through the mud for the 100th time."

It is clear why MH.  What I had claimed in the context of you being a shill makes more sense than youpersonally just wanting me to be wrong all the time, as you clearly show in this thread.

I dont care about views on my yt channel.  I dont put up ads on my vids.  I have messages from yt to do adds an make money. I have some vids that have enough view for them to ask. But I dont do this. My vids are free for all without delay, and not taking up peoples time unnecessarily with ads .

You 'got so much shit', as you say, because you have failed to even analyze the circuit from beginning till now, and keep saying I have failed.  I have held my stance on this since before this thread in pm. Your work here in this has been a disaster from page 2. Its only a 10 page thread.  Doesnt take that long to go over to find out the truth.  If i thought I was in the wrong and you were just right the whole time, then I probably wouldnt recommend people read these 10 pages again to see what is there.  But I want the ones that think otherwise of my views to do just that. I want them to show me where i went wrong and you were correct the whole time.  Thing is they cant.

Not a shill? Then what is it M?  Is it just a vendetta to try and make me look bad at any cost, even fake circuit analysis from you to just make me look bad even though Im right? Is that it?? Well its one of the 2.

If its the latter then seek a therapist because it is not doing you any good for your reputation you feel you hold so dearly.

If it is the former, then yes, a shill will lie cheat and bring on make believe arguments till the idea of any resonance gains is quenched. A shill will stop at nothing to get the job done.

Search monsanto shill stories. Milk industry shills. Pharmaceutical shills. Etc.  If one reads on these things then it becomes apparent you are clearly following that path here in this thread. And other threads I can link up to here on this site.


"Final thoughts from Carroll:  <<<  In the past I have come to MH's defense when I believed he was right.  But I will not be a puppet for him when he is clearly wrong. >>>

What Carroll is saying is almost as bad but at least he doesn't think I work for the bloody CIA.  He turned himself into a clown with his statement and his "explanation" for the ignition circuit was bullshit
."


Are you calling carrol a clown?   There are 10 pages of you center stage at the circus here!!.  ;)

Mags 




Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #128 on: October 31, 2017, 10:05:23 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline Magluvin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5771
Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #129 on: October 31, 2017, 10:14:01 PM »
The waveform images that Miles posted earlier are
very informative.

There are oscillations in the Primary Circuit during
the time that the Breaker Points are Open.  It is
possible to see that the oscillations occur at two
distinctly different frequencies:  during spark burn
time the frequency is higher than the frequency
which appears following spark burn time.

Why is this so?

Also, why is there no evidence of oscillation in the
Secondary Circuit until after the spark has
extinguished?

Answer those questions and you'll have mastered
the Operation of the Kettering Ignition System.

My scope shows the ring with the cap installed to be 12.3khz.  I zoomed in on the wave and it was a consistent 12.3khz. With my earlier calculations in this thread I had come up with 15kz.  Off, but close enough for me. My earlier calculations were with the measurement of the primary with the sec shorted. Here the sec is loaded with spark, which could change the result of the scope reading vs just a shorted sec for calculation. ;)

mags

Offline tinman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5240
Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #130 on: October 31, 2017, 11:52:46 PM »
The waveform images that Miles posted earlier are
very informative.

There are oscillations in the Primary Circuit during
the time that the Breaker Points are Open.  It is
possible to see that the oscillations occur at two
distinctly different frequencies:  during spark burn
time the frequency is higher than the frequency
which appears following spark burn time.

Why is this so?



Because during the spark burn,the secondary appears to have a short across it,and this lowers the inductance value of the primary,thus resulting in a higher natural resonant frequency of the primary.

When the secondary is open(no spark burn),the inductance value of the primary becomes higher,resulting in a lower natural resonant frequency.


Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #130 on: October 31, 2017, 11:52:46 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline SeaMonkey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1285
Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #131 on: November 01, 2017, 01:54:16 AM »
Tinman,

Yes!  Correct!

During the Spark Burn Time the Secondary Winding is
"sourcing" spark current to the plug of several amperes
as the stored magnetic field dissipates.  The "load" of
the Spark Plug results in a prolonged collapse time of
the stored magnetic field as the Spark Plug current
is generated.  It all happens very quickly.

Offline Magluvin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5771
Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #132 on: November 01, 2017, 02:15:56 AM »
Miles has explained it correctly.  "Resonance" is not a factor in the process
of supplying High Voltage Energy to the Spark Plug by Inductive Discharge
of the Ignition Coil.

However, it is possible to construct an Electronic Ignition System which
will produce a rapid succession of sparks within a short time span in order
to improve combustion of the fuel/air mixture.  Racing Cars sometimes
employ such a system.  The Ford Model T Ignition System used Ignition
Coils with "buzzers" to produce such an effect many years ago.  The Model
T also enabled selection of Battery Ignition or Magneto by the driver at
will.  They don't make 'em today like they used to. ;)


Firstly the 2 pics, one of the primary and one of the secondary.

One thing i notice is the lack of voltage scale to the left, only showing 0v. Nothing to show the differences in scale.

Why is the 'spark duration' period for the primary shorter that the 'spark burn time period' for the secondary? These should have been simultaneous shots yet they dont seem so.

As brad has stated, the spark is shorting out the secondary. Now was this a direct reading across the secondary or was it of a clamp style measurement of a plug wire and what type of measuring device was used? Was it a direct measurement of the plug gap? Where are the reference points of these measurements?

Why is the burn voltage level seemingly level DC voltage during the 'spark burn time period' instead of a declining voltage level till the spark ends??? Is the plug gap regulating the level of voltage across the secondary to show such?

In the very beginning of the spark burn voltage line you can see some sort of oscillation but died off very quickly early in the burn time. If the primary has such influence on the secondary to provide the sec with a spark either when the switch opens, or closes, then why would the primary oscillations of over 300v not have any affect on the sec burn time line, while the sec is loaded??  Those oscillations are in line with having voltage swings that could get the spark to happen in the first place.

If it were battery currents across the plasma, then that spark burn line must be what, 14.5v??  The 14v holds it till the spark burns out?

If that spark burn lin is 14.5v, then why is it the oscillation that occurs in both shots, just after the spark burn ends, not showing a 100:1 ratio between the primary and the secondary shots?

Its all screwed up.

Something is a miss here.   Lets just say the plasma battery spark were to be.. If the battery is not in phase with the initial spark currents it wouldnt happen then. And if it was only when the sec currents after the first initial spark pulled a reversal by way of the cap, then the spark happened in the other direction to get the plasma battery spark, then why not just make the coil with the polarity of the secondary reversed so the initial spark could carry these plasma battery currents instead of first bouncing off of a 600v cap with 1440v???  Them caps would be a gold mine in the service dept.  With that in mind, why not just skip the cap and reverse the polarity of the sec internally, just close the switch to get a spark that seems to be the same as when the switch opens, and you get the battery plasma effect?  Why the cap at all in that proccess??

Why is there plenty of voltage in the primary oscillations to produce the spark I say is there?  On that note, Im going to put together the Tesla igniter circuit using this relay setup.  Large inductor, battery and cap all in one loop. And the relay discharging the cap into the primary directly, no battery in that loop..

I will try several of my larger inductors to get the best match for similar results as for timing as was done in my last vid...  Will the cap and primary oscillate and produce similar sparks like in my previous vids? Will there be a similar ring down between the cap and primary as we have seen in those vids? Look at my vid from 7yrs ago that I posted yesterday. 250v and a great spark..  That was not set up for primary oscillations like the igniter pat circuit will as the Sidace stops the primary current when the current falls to a minimum.

Well Im putting it together now.  This should put this thing to rest once and for all..

The ign system we have been covering has been designed to look very simple. And being sooo simple looking, there are many versions of what others think is going on by what the books, internet links, say is simply going on. And from one source to the next, its like a different book altogether, from seemingly reputable sources....

Mags








Offline Magluvin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5771
Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #133 on: November 01, 2017, 02:22:19 AM »
Tinman,

Yes!  Correct!

During the Spark Burn Time the Secondary Winding is
"sourcing" spark current to the plug of several amperes
as the stored magnetic field dissipates.  The "load" of
the Spark Plug results in a prolonged collapse time of
the stored magnetic field as the Spark Plug current
is generated.  It all happens very quickly.

Ok. I get what your thinking, that the loading helps to slow down the field collapse for the time period thus a longer spark. Is that correct?  Well then why would that not happen also without the cap????  We get sparks when we release the battery current from the primary after the field build without the cap, so why isnt it a slowed collapse and long burn then, without the cap in place????  Doesnt wash.

Mags

Offline Magluvin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5771
Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #134 on: November 01, 2017, 02:34:40 AM »
Can someone post a comment on my vid here..  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNLUGqH4W1c

I replied to a guy that commented that the ring in the scope shot was my oscilloscope probe and I responded appropriately. The guy seems like a real strange guy, playing with what he seem to imply Kapanadzy coils and such. Was talking about picofarad caps, I suppose in the circuit all over the bench, with what seems to be a web of colored jumper wires all over the place. And he is telling me this 12.3khz oscillations is in my scope probe. Like he know about stray capacitance's and inductance's  and such. ::) ::) ::) But the next day it says there is 2 comments, of which I would agree with, but it will not show the comments.. Just want to see if comments can be posted on the vid since after what Im seeing there.  I dont care if the comment from one of you says my vid sucks. lol  I just want to confirm that there is an issue there. Thanks ahead of time if one of you does this for me.

Mags

 

OneLink