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Author Topic: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....  (Read 33840 times)

Offline MileHigh

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #90 on: October 30, 2017, 01:23:35 AM »
I dont know why you made it 100v. Nor why you made the resistor .1ohm  But the L and C are so huge, and the scope shots you show are cut off before any resonant indications could appear.........  Look at his post again folks..   There is no other reason for making such drastic changes to the component values to demonstrate operations of this circuit. None.... Its padded to the hilt to not show resonant oscillations.

You know that you are being a space cadet here and also demonstrating your lack of knowledge.  Did you try changing the time base on the virtual scope and you couldn't?  I tried and I couldn't change the time base.  So when you plug in the more correct values all that you see is the envelope of the ring-down, right?  It's too fast for you to see anything.

When it comes to analog components like capacitors and inductors, the waveforms they generate are all the same irrespective of the size of the components, it's the frequency that changes.  So since the frequency was too high to demonstrate what I was trying to demonstrate, I made the component values larger so that I could show what I wanted to show, and I am attaching the marked-up screen capture to this positing.  I even put in a disclaimer about it in the original posting for people like you.

When you allege that I was trying to "hide" the resonant oscillations, we enter into black comedy territory, and it's one of the reasons I left this forum.  I will state it for something like the fifth time:  At the start of the ignition cycle, there is no resonant oscillation.  When the capacitor hits 300 volts on the very first climb of what is supposed to be a resonant oscillation, the secondary hits 30,000 volts and the air finally becomes conducting plasma because the very strong electric field starts stripping the electrons off of the various air molecules.  The dam bursts and the resonance between the primary and the capacitor is put into limbo while the secondary does the big energy dump.  The resonance only resumes after the big energy dump is done and that is just scraps in the form of a resonant ring-down to dissipate the remaining energy in the cap as heat.

So I wasn't trying to "hide" the RLC resonance, I was discussing how it's possible for the battery to still kick in a bit of extra energy into the core before the plasma ignites in a running engine.

For the attached graphic I even added an extra annotation to show a hypothetical point where the big plasma burn starts and stops any possible RLC resonance between the primary and the capacitor.

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Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #91 on: October 30, 2017, 02:04:39 AM »
You know that you are being a space cadet here and also demonstrating your lack of knowledge.  Did you try changing the time base on the virtual scope and you couldn't?  I tried and I couldn't change the time base.  So when you plug in the more correct values all that you see is the envelope of the ring-down, right?  It's too fast for you to see anything. 

When it comes to analog components like capacitors and inductors, the waveforms they generate are all the same irrespective of the size of the components, it's the frequency that changes.  So since the frequency was too high to demonstrate what I was trying to demonstrate, I made the component values larger so that I could show what I wanted to show, and I am attaching the marked-up screen capture to this positing.  I even put in a disclaimer about it in the original posting for people like you.

When you allege that I was trying to "hide" the resonant oscillations, we enter into black comedy territory, and it's one of the reasons I left this forum.  I will state it for something like the fifth time:  At the start of the ignition cycle, there is no resonant oscillation.  When the capacitor hits 300 volts on the very first climb of what is supposed to be a resonant oscillation, the secondary hits 30,000 volts and the air finally becomes conducting plasma because the very strong electric field starts stripping the electrons off of the various air molecules.  The dam bursts and the resonance between the primary and the capacitor is put into limbo while the secondary does the big energy dump.  The resonance only resumes after the big energy dump is done and that is just scraps in the form of a resonant ring-down to dissipate the remaining energy in the cap as heat.

So I wasn't trying to "hide" the RLC resonance, I was discussing how it's possible for the battery to still kick in a bit of extra energy into the core before the plasma ignites in a running engine.

For the attached graphic I even added an extra annotation to show a hypothetical point where the big plasma burn starts and stops any possible RLC resonance between the primary and the capacitor.

No space cadet.  Right click the scope shot you want to change and at the top of that menu it says  Speed 2x  and below that  SPEED 1/2... You can change things in options also.


"When you allege that I was trying to "hide" the resonant oscillations, we enter into black comedy territory, and it's one of the reasons I left this forum.  I will state it for something like the fifth time:  At the start of the ignition cycle, there is no resonant oscillation.  When the capacitor hits 300 volts on the very first climb of what is supposed to be a resonant oscillation, the secondary hits 30,000 volts and the air finally becomes conducting plasma because the very strong electric field starts stripping the electrons off of the various air molecules.  The dam bursts and the resonance between the primary and the capacitor is put into limbo while the secondary does the big energy dump.  The resonance only resumes after the big energy dump is done and that is just scraps in the form of a resonant ring-down to dissipate the remaining energy in the cap as heat."

But MH!! You have been saying there is no resonance at all up untill today.  ??? Its all right here in the thread.  So where did you find a source that shows you that it does exist and you finally believed it now, today??   

See. I just said in a post just a bit ago that once you finally cannot dispute that the resonance, that you have been so dead set on over these pages, does not and will not happen here, that you would do just this. Here in my post reply 95 on the page before this one .......

"Repeat this, repeat that, all you want. Ill be waiting for your reasons why the oscillations I show when the cap is in the circuit compared to not in the circuit are just artifacts or nothing to make a better stronger spark. And that will have to be the new argument you will have to make... "


And here you are already before I even post the vid.  lol  your doing just what I said 1 page ago. Gees, when does it end?  Never I suppose.

Mags

Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #92 on: October 30, 2017, 02:21:18 AM »
Vid was past 13min as i was recording and it stopped on its own..  Doing another one right now, but Ill have to shorter vids.  Not sure why the cam is doing this.  So ill post the simple version of what we want to see and explain the rest in other short vids....

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #92 on: October 30, 2017, 02:21:18 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #93 on: October 30, 2017, 02:32:06 AM »
No space cadet.  Right click the scope shot you want to change and at the top of that menu it says  Speed 2x  and below that  SPEED 1/2... You can change things in options also.


"When you allege that I was trying to "hide" the resonant oscillations, we enter into black comedy territory, and it's one of the reasons I left this forum.  I will state it for something like the fifth time:  At the start of the ignition cycle, there is no resonant oscillation.  When the capacitor hits 300 volts on the very first climb of what is supposed to be a resonant oscillation, the secondary hits 30,000 volts and the air finally becomes conducting plasma because the very strong electric field starts stripping the electrons off of the various air molecules.  The dam bursts and the resonance between the primary and the capacitor is put into limbo while the secondary does the big energy dump.  The resonance only resumes after the big energy dump is done and that is just scraps in the form of a resonant ring-down to dissipate the remaining energy in the cap as heat."

But MH!! You have been saying there is no resonance at all up untill today.  ??? Its all right here in the thread.  So where did you find a source that shows you that it does exist and you finally believed it now, today??   

See. I just said in a post just a bit ago that once you finally cannot dispute that the resonance, that you have been so dead set on over these pages, does not and will not happen here, that you would do just this. Here in my post reply 95 on the page before this one .......

"Repeat this, repeat that, all you want. Ill be waiting for your reasons why the oscillations I show when the cap is in the circuit compared to not in the circuit are just artifacts or nothing to make a better stronger spark. And that will have to be the new argument you will have to make... "


And here you are already before I even post the vid.  lol  your doing just what I said 1 page ago. Gees, when does it end?  Never I suppose.

Mags

Even in my mistaken first attempt to describe the process, I said this, "There may be some secondary voltage ringing artifacts observed, but these will have nothing to do with the actual plasma burn."

And that is exactly what we are talking about right now.  There is no "resonance" involved in the generation of the plasma spark.

So you have got nothing Magluvin.  Your pitch from the start is that the whole plasma generation is a resonance-based phenomenon.  And you state that resonance gives you a "gain" and a stronger spark.  Well that is not what appears to be happening at all.

You have been playing with coils on your bench for a decade.  And every time you disconnect a coil from battery terminals you get a spark.  It's the same bloody spark in an ignition system.  And it was only many years later that you learned that a discharging coil is a current source and that explains why you get the spark and it explains why the coil completely discharges its stored energy when you break the connection to the coil.  It baffles me that you could not make a connection between what you have seen on your bench thousands of times to what is going on when an ignition coil fires a spark plug.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #94 on: October 30, 2017, 03:07:36 AM »
Even in my mistaken first attempt to describe the process, I said this, "There may be some secondary voltage ringing artifacts observed, but these will have nothing to do with the actual plasma burn."

And that is exactly what we are talking about right now.  There is no "resonance" involved in the generation of the plasma spark.

So you have got nothing Magluvin.  Your pitch from the start is that the whole plasma generation is a resonance-based phenomenon.  And you state that resonance gives you a "gain" and a stronger spark.  Well that is not what appears to be happening at all.

You have been playing with coils on your bench for a decade.  And every time you disconnect a coil from battery terminals you get a spark.  It's the same bloody spark in an ignition system.  And it was only many years later that you learned that a discharging coil is a current source and that explains why you get the spark and it explains why the coil completely discharges its stored energy when you break the connection to the coil.  It baffles me that you could not make a connection between what you have seen on your bench thousands of times to what is going on when an ignition coil fires a spark plug.

""There may be some secondary voltage ringing artifacts observed, but these will have nothing to do with the actual plasma burn."

But throughout that first post here from you on the second page, you strictly describe that there is no resonant ring in the primary or cap. everything only DC. Never any reversals of current on the primary side of the circuit. If the plasma resistor spark you speak of would kill off any oscillations, then how could there be any artifacts in the secondary let alone cant happen on the primary?  Your swing has changed since Tk posted earlier in pm that the lrc no matter how much over damping by the R in the LRC there is, LRC resonance still takes place.  Here we have 1ohm primary and 1ohm ballast.  This is not an over damped LRC.  So now all of a sudden just today after that pm from TK you change your tune about the possibility that the primary will ring with the cap when the switch opens.

So now today we are on the same page finally that the resonance I speak of really does occur, even before I post the vid, but now you have a new reason for why the secondary never sees it from the primary that sits in the same can, thus to invalidate my scope shots in the vid before it even comes out ::) ???   You were not even close to being right in your first explanation, so why should we accept your new explanation?  Maybe it is just as fouled up as the first one. How can we know for sure? ;)   So your explanations through your so called excellent circuit analysis skills maybe should not be relied upon really. I mean you are still on the plasma battery cap pumping ideas as valid up until today.  Still talking plasma plasma plasma

What next? I took the coil apart and installed hidden circuitry?   Well you may have to use that one soon.....


Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #94 on: October 30, 2017, 03:07:36 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #95 on: October 30, 2017, 03:24:52 AM »
Better to make an attempt at an explanation and get it wrong and exercise your brain, than to offer no explanation.  And I even made it more challenging by not looking anything up.  And then after I got it wrong I went on a learning expedition.

And it appears that you are trying to claim some sort of "victory" just because of some secondary ringing that has nothing to do with the main function of the circuit and has nothing whatsoever to do with your pitch.

In all likelihood you are going to find that the plasma spark is done in the form of a continuous DC burn which is what I have been saying the whole time.  There is no resonance associated with the plasma burn.

Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #96 on: October 30, 2017, 03:30:48 AM »
Better to make an attempt at an explanation and get it wrong and exercise your brain, than to offer no explanation.  And I even made it more challenging by not looking anything up.  And then after I got it wrong I went on a learning expedition.

And it appears that you are trying to claim some sort of "victory" just because of some secondary ringing that has nothing to do with the main function of the circuit and has nothing whatsoever to do with your pitch.

In all likelihood you are going to find that the plasma spark is done in the form of a continuous DC burn which is what I have been saying the whole time.  There is no resonance associated with the plasma burn.

Ok then.  Keep playing in your plasma. ::)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNLUGqH4W1c&feature=youtu.be

Vid is short.  And I hope I didnt hurt my scope..... ???

Mags

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #96 on: October 30, 2017, 03:30:48 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #97 on: October 30, 2017, 03:45:30 AM »
Better to make an attempt at an explanation and get it wrong and exercise your brain, than to offer no explanation.  And I even made it more challenging by not looking anything up.  And then after I got it wrong I went on a learning expedition.

And it appears that you are trying to claim some sort of "victory" just because of some secondary ringing that has nothing to do with the main function of the circuit and has nothing whatsoever to do with your pitch.

In all likelihood you are going to find that the plasma spark is done in the form of a continuous DC burn which is what I have been saying the whole time.  There is no resonance associated with the plasma burn.


"And it appears that you are trying to claim some sort of "victory" just because of some secondary ringing that has nothing to do with the main function of the circuit and has nothing whatsoever to do with your pitch."

Again, show me in any of my posts that i have said the words "secondary ringing"..  Never said it.  I have always even in PM before this thread, it is the primary and the cap..  This is the second post today you have tried to this.  Either show me that I said it or stop saying have been.  Diversion tactics. Trying to discredit  me with false claims in your statements.



"n all likelihood you are going to find that the plasma spark is done in the form of a continuous DC burn which is what I have been saying the whole time.  There is no resonance associated with the plasma burn"

No MH. In the end the plasma plasma plasma is going to burn you and your expert circuit analysis claims.

Mags

Offline MileHigh

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #98 on: October 30, 2017, 03:45:59 AM »
Ok then.  Keep playing in your plasma. ::)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNLUGqH4W1c&feature=youtu.be

Vid is short.  And I hope I didnt hurt my scope..... ???

Mags

Mags

Great, now you can explain to your audience what it all means.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #98 on: October 30, 2017, 03:45:59 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #99 on: October 30, 2017, 03:55:48 AM »
Again, show me in any of my posts that i have said the words "secondary ringing"..  Never said it.  I have always even in PM before this thread, it is the primary and the cap..  This is the second post today you have tried to this.  Either show me that I said it or stop saying have been.  Diversion tactics. Trying to discredit  me with false claims in your statements.

Your pitch is that the operation of this circuit is resonance based and that because of the resonance you get a bigger spark and "gain."  This is irrespective of discussions about the primary or the secondary.  And if the primary rings then the secondary rings also.

Quote
In the very short second vid, when with the capacitor connected, you can see it is not just one thin spark like without the cap connected. There are multiple sparks happening during the ring down of the resonant LC. 

There is a gain by way of resonance here.

Looking forward to your proper explanation of the circuit now that you have a set up and how resonance gives you a gain.

Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #100 on: October 30, 2017, 04:01:21 AM »
Great, now you can explain to your audience what it all means.

After a couple more vids on this, Im done here..  If you up until today have disputed that resonance even exist in the primary circuit, then keep crying wolf till you find someone else to do more vids on this..

I have shown you were wrong with all your talk on "there is no resonance" before today..
 
I have shown the scope shots that you claimed I would not show because you say that there was no resonance and i could not show them.

I have corrected myself with Brads claim of spark when the switch closes. He was totally correct on that.  But I dont see that the cap helps out any because I can ONLY get that to happen with the cap, not without, so far.  My first 2 vids do not show it. Some reason the install of the ballast resistor helped it to show up for me here.

I have shown a lot.  Im going to go home and watch The Walking Dead. relax, eat some good food.  Maybe Ill see you in this episode walking around, dribbling plasma.....8th season just began last sun.  Love this show... 

Nah  Im done explaining.. resonance give us a gain...  After a couple short vids to wrap it up, Im back in the speaker thread, to talk more about resonance gains.

Mags
« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 02:36:59 PM by Magluvin »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #100 on: October 30, 2017, 04:01:21 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #101 on: October 30, 2017, 04:05:26 AM »
I see a balloon deflating and and you preparing to run away.

Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #102 on: October 30, 2017, 04:10:14 AM »
Your pitch is that the operation of this circuit is resonance based and that because of the resonance you get a bigger spark and "gain."  This is irrespective of discussions about the primary or the secondary.  And if the primary rings then the secondary rings also.

Looking forward to your proper explanation of the circuit now that you have a set up and how resonance gives you a gain.

No pitch..  Your the pitch!  lol   Im done M..  Im not here to explain the circuit any further.  like i said in my last post.  Ive shown what I wanted to show.  You can dispute it further.  I sure as hell know you wont stop.  So be my guest..    But dont be surprised if I do like Luc does and make a new thread just on my findings here on this subject and just lock the thread so it cant be touched.  If you want to further argue on this thread then be my guest. Im done here. Ive shown way more than your imaginary circuits have shown. Im not going to just go on and on with you.. 

You have shown that you , well, umm?  hmm?  What really have you shown? ???

Mags

Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #103 on: October 30, 2017, 04:20:26 AM »
I see a balloon deflating and and you preparing to run away.


Run away from you and your fully discredited circuit analysis expertise.  ;) Fully! Completely! You dont show you know anything so far in this thread. Plasma plasma plasma.  You have failed from page 2 again and agian. I have shown what I said I would show.... You have shown your not as good as you say you are..  Brad was the only other one here that stepped up to the plate with real knowledge. I truely and in my previous vids show, never ever seen the spark he spoke of till I installed the ballast resistor. He and I need to discus the caps purpose on that particular event but thats it. None of your posts interest me except the one of that vid you provide that describes my reasoning, as you said, 100%.  The rest can be literally tossed out... None of it was correct.

Run away now?  Nope. Just to the next step on resonant gains. You are wasting my time. The speakers is where it gets fun.  ;) ;D

Mags

Offline MileHigh

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #104 on: October 30, 2017, 04:28:04 AM »
Like I predicted, a SUPER-FAIL!!!!

You haven't shown anything except more show and don't tell, you haven't explained anything. If you sniffed out the secondary discharge, you would find no evidence of resonance whatsoever.

 

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