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Author Topic: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....  (Read 28309 times)

Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #195 on: November 07, 2017, 01:37:35 AM »



it is what it is....


you want me to leave.....don't give me anything to reply to.....

I know.  It is what it is for a long time now..


Trouble is that your replies just end up in distraction rather than actual helpful information, at least on our end of it. Like Jeg saying he has the complete picture now. You and I both know that cannot be true.

Like this from you...

""Inductance is the characteristic of an electrical circuit that makes itself evident by opposing the starting, stopping, or changing of current flow."


Three instances when EMF is induced....  How often does the current start, stop or change in either of the circuits?!?!  What are you doing during these key instances?!  How are you positioned to capitalize on opposition to change, how was Tesla?  How can you expect to understand what is being suggested by the use of the terms "flux capacitor" if your attention isn't focused on the flux!?  Which flux!?  Capacitor?  What capacitor?"

When we had a conversation a while back, you brought up Bedini coils, which are Bifi, some trifi, etc, So I may need to assume that you are using a bifi in your version of the ozone circuit. 

So when you say above, 'What capacitor?"  I have to assume that either the 1 cap that we know about in the ozone circuit has nothing to do with what your trying to describe, OR, that there is another capacitor in the circuit.

Then you say....

"There is no if....  ozone can be produced by the motor windings.  Your ideas regarding bifilar are borrowed, and in case you aren't aware, I have no interest in parasitic capacitance...  your present line of thinking will not help you accomplish what I am suggesting is possible."   

Well we only know that you are saying that ozone is produced in the motor windings, we have no proof that it is true.

And if you are saying that you have no interest in the parasitic capacitance, that would suggest to me that you are still using a bifi coil but not for its capacitance.

So the only other option for the use of the bifi would be to use one of the bifi windings as a control coil in the bifi windings, control as if when we short one winding, it acts like a shorted secondary which would bring the very high inductance value of the coil very low so that it no longer has the cemf effects when the other winding is shorted.

But then again, I can only assume that what I just said may only result in a WTF moment from you.    Lets see....

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline MileHigh

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #196 on: November 07, 2017, 01:51:46 AM »
Since the natives are restless, I will do something positive to rally the troops:

The Tesla Ozone Patent in modern technical English:

To whom it may concern:

There is a DC electric motor C that blows air down an enclosed trough.  Opposite sides of the trough have plates P that have an alternating high voltage between them that produces the ozone.

The current for the DC electric motor is routed through a cylindrical commutator E that is on the shaft of the motor.  The commutator and associated brushes form the controller H.  The controller will periodically interrupt the current that flows through the motor coils.  When the current to the motor is interrupted by the controller it is directed into an LC resonator formed by coil M and high-voltage capacitor L.  Coil M also forms the primary of a transformer, the secondary of the transformer is coil N.

When the controller interrupts the current to the motor, the motor coils discharge their current through the coil N of the LC resonator and charge up capacitor L to a high voltage.  A short time later the controller disconnects motor's coils leaving the capacitor charged.  A short time after that the controller connects the capacitor to the coil M and there is an LC resonant ring down.  Coil M couples to the secondary coil N which amplifies the AC voltage across coil M.  The ends of coil N connect to the plates P resulting in a very high voltage alternating potential across the plates.  This very high voltage across the plates P produces ozone as the air starts to conduct current.  This will drain energy out of the LC resonator.  A fan is connected to the motor to blow air through the enclosed trough.

Offline tinman

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #197 on: November 07, 2017, 02:19:21 AM »
Since the natives are restless, I will do something positive to rally the troops:

The Tesla Ozone Patent in modern technical English:

To whom it may concern:

There is a DC electric motor C that blows air down an enclosed trough.  Opposite sides of the trough have plates P that have an alternating high voltage between them that produces the ozone.

The current for the DC electric motor is routed through a cylindrical commutator E that is on the shaft of the motor.  The commutator and associated brushes form the controller H.  The controller will periodically interrupt the current that flows through the motor coils.  When the current to the motor is interrupted by the controller it is directed into an LC resonator formed by coil M and high-voltage capacitor L.  Coil M also forms the primary of a transformer, the secondary of the transformer is coil N.

When the controller interrupts the current to the motor, the motor coils discharge their current through the coil N of the LC resonator and charge up capacitor L to a high voltage.  A short time later the controller disconnects motor's coils leaving the capacitor charged.  A short time after that the controller connects the capacitor to the coil M and there is an LC resonant ring down.  Coil M couples to the secondary coil N which amplifies the AC voltage across coil M.  The ends of coil N connect to the plates P resulting in a very high voltage alternating potential across the plates.  This very high voltage across the plates P produces ozone as the air starts to conduct current.  This will drain energy out of the LC resonator.  A fan is connected to the motor to blow air through the enclosed trough.

Spot on MH.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #197 on: November 07, 2017, 02:19:21 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #198 on: November 07, 2017, 02:20:40 AM »
Since the natives are restless, I will do something positive to rally the troops:

The Tesla Ozone Patent in modern technical English:

To whom it may concern:

There is a DC electric motor C that blows air down an enclosed trough.  Opposite sides of the trough have plates P that have an alternating high voltage between them that produces the ozone.

The current for the DC electric motor is routed through a cylindrical commutator E that is on the shaft of the motor.  The commutator and associated brushes form the controller H.  The controller will periodically interrupt the current that flows through the motor coils.  When the current to the motor is interrupted by the controller it is directed into an LC resonator formed by coil M and high-voltage capacitor L.  Coil M also forms the primary of a transformer, the secondary of the transformer is coil N.

When the controller interrupts the current to the motor, the motor coils discharge their current through the coil N of the LC resonator and charge up capacitor L to a high voltage.  A short time later the controller disconnects motor's coils leaving the capacitor charged.  A short time after that the controller connects the capacitor to the coil M and there is an LC resonant ring down.  Coil M couples to the secondary coil N which amplifies the AC voltage across coil M.  The ends of coil N connect to the plates P resulting in a very high voltage alternating potential across the plates.  This very high voltage across the plates P produces ozone as the air starts to conduct current.  This will drain energy out of the LC resonator.  A fan is connected to the motor to blow air through the enclosed trough.


"When the controller interrupts the current to the motor, the motor coils discharge their current through the coil N of the LC resonator and charge up capacitor L to a high voltage.  A short time later the controller disconnects motor's coils leaving the capacitor charged.  A short time after that the controller connects the capacitor to the coil M and there is an LC resonant ring down."

That part is not correct.

There is no short times of disconnection of the motor to the input, etc.  When the switch is closed the input powers the motor directly, and when the switch opens, the motor windings are still connected to the input only it now has the cap and primary in series loop with the motor and the input during the cap charge time. Then the same switch closes and the input is again direct to the motor windings AND the same switch connects the cap across the primary, repeat.

You should go over the patent better to understand where you are not correct here.

Mags

Offline MileHigh

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #199 on: November 07, 2017, 05:26:32 AM »
You could very well be be right but I gave a bare-bones description and didn't really discuss the motor connections through the whole cycle and I focused on the ozone generation.

Since the circuit is so simple and the principles of operation are so simple if somebody really wanted to they could draw up a proper schematic and add to my text description to make it more complete.  Since it is not easy to describe how the commutator/controller works on the schematic, the full description of the circuit could be fleshed out with a timing diagram that describes the operation of the circuit through a full 360 degree rotation at the operating RPM.

Here is what could be put on the timing diagram:

1.  The motor brush contact ON/OFF switching function
2.  The current draw from the DC source  (this is also the instantaneous power consumption)
3.  The torque pulses produced by the motor
4.  The voltage across the LC resonator
5.  The current through the LC resonator
6.  The instantaneous energy level in the LC resonator
7.  The voltage across the secondary
8.  The current through the secondary (current flow yields ozone production)
9.  The instantaneous power output from the secondary (which produces ozone)
10.  The commutator/controller ON/OFF switching function (annotated with arrows to other traces showing how a switching event initiates or ends an event on another channel)
11.  A possible second (?) commutator ON/OF switching function if required

And for the hard-core people focused on ENERGY:

12.  The accumulated energy drawn by the circuit through one full rotation (i.e.; the integral of the instantaneous power consumption)
13.  The accumulated energy dissipated by the circuit through one full rotation (l.e.; the integral of the instantaneous power dissipation at all points in the circuit and the power output )

If somebody did that then the Tesla ozone patent would be completely explained and there would be no ambiguity about how it works and there would be no more misconceptions and myths associated with it.  Do that and then all of the business about "Tesla hiding something in the patent" will end.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #199 on: November 07, 2017, 05:26:32 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #200 on: November 07, 2017, 06:29:39 AM »
Ok. Im not going to try and say whats wrong and whats right about your post.  But in No. 1, the brushes overlap for the motor operation. Unless you think there are some spikes there that affect the operations of the circuit as a whole, the motor should be on its own in that respect. Dont ya think? Tesla only speaks of the (E) motor commutator 1 time to show current paths in the circuit....


" That is to say, the coils of the field and armature may be in series or derivation or wholly independent, and either or both are connected up in the circuit. In the present instance one terminal, as B, is connected to one of the binding posts, from which the circuit is led through one field-coil, D, the brushes and commutator E, the other field-coil, F, and thence to a brush G, which rests upon a circuit-controller H, consisting in general of a conducting disk or cylinder with insulating sections in its periphery."

When I was messing with the igniter circuit, I have it down to where when the switch opens, you can see the cap voltage rise and the same rise across the large inductor. There may be some phase difference due to the primary in the loop, but basically I can close the switch in time with the cap peak and discharge. Now what else I have seen is, if I stretch out the switch open time, I can see the cap voltage rise to peak and then fall, sending current back through the large inductance, also back through the battery and then the cap voltage peaks again in the negative and then the switch closes and I get a very good spark then also. 

So if the current through the large inductor is max .28a, and we dont close the switch till the cap does this almost full reversal with the large inductor, then we have sent some back to the battery already before we dump the cap into the primary. Will have to be set up for these input power measurements to see what we actually used there and compare.  But the savings due to the large inductor igniter circuit is huge compared to the standard conventional circuit, and here we may have saved even more in the igniter circuit by allowing the cap and large inductor oscillate just 3/4  of a cycle instead of just 1/4 cycle before cap discharge into the primary and have sent back some to the battery during operation cycles.

So far that is the best I can say about this circuit thus far. I hope there is more. But we will have to figure that out for ourselves here.

Mags

Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #201 on: November 07, 2017, 08:15:20 AM »



Curious what your excuse would be..... :-*

Was a little out of it earlier and was just a bit off in my replies. Your posts wont be deleted.

Off and on, when work is not in the way I try to delve back into all this stuff.  Got a lot of hours in it all again and i just hope for good things and I end up in threads where I spend a lot of the free time arguing, and balh blah..   

So I would appreciate your help here. But its hard to gain a focus on the whole of what your describing. More like what we get from it is still off in the distance to figure it out.  I mean we have talked about a lot here and apparently your circuit is somewhat different.

Anyway, didnt really mean what I said earlier.  Im getting busy here with work again. Put the setup on the shelf for now. Spent yesterday with it observing timing like I said earlier. Whether it is anything good or not, I have a better feel for some things that are going on.

Watching Shallow Hall.   Great movie.  Hadnt seen it in a long time.  Putting me in a better mood.

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #201 on: November 07, 2017, 08:15:20 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #202 on: November 07, 2017, 09:33:30 AM »
Ok. Cool.

Couple questions.

If someone here does happen to get it, what would you like to see in all that? Would you like someone to finally get it? Would you like it if they tried to show everyone freely?

Just wonder.

Mags

Offline forest

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #203 on: November 07, 2017, 09:55:35 AM »
Here is the answer:  https://teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla/patents/us-patent-568178-method-regulating-apparatus-producing-electric-currents-high
You will know  8)
Once upon a time my teacher has given me a riddle : you have two metalic rods: one is the magnet and one is iron - you cannot differentiate among those by looking at them (they are identical in form and look) - you have no tools or apparatus to check magnetic field - you have only those two rods.
Find a method how to judge which one is the magnet.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #203 on: November 07, 2017, 09:55:35 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #204 on: November 07, 2017, 10:13:26 AM »


thank you would be a fun place to start....


would be interesting if someone finally got it....yeah...


get it first.....

Well I do say thanks for bringing a lot of interesting ideas to the table. Ya know, Im slow. It takes me a while to get things down. Like I need to read things more than once, or watch a movie more than 5 times to seem like I got it all together as to what exactly happened. Like people say they always notice new things the second time watching, well I notice new things of importance to the story seemingly every time I watch it. But once I know it I know a lot.  Some people pick things up fast. Sometimes i just get frustrated with myself. Ive had a lot of ups and downs here.  Lately  with the resonance Im feeling up. But there is times a battle to keep feeling up. then the subject becomes far from focus.  I dunno.

Anyway, Ill need to jump back and go over the stuff youve said and see what comes of it.

Mags

Mags

Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #205 on: November 07, 2017, 11:36:56 AM »
Was going to say this earlier but was distracted..   After a week of messing with the spark coil circuits, the smell of ozone from the sparks was definitely there. But I still seem to smell it like when I go home, or at the grocery store. Does it stick to your clothes? Or have I had too much over the past week?

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #205 on: November 07, 2017, 11:36:56 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #206 on: November 07, 2017, 11:56:59 AM »

All I'll say here is the collectively accepted view on resonance is severely limited.....  where we want to end up, there is no value in isolating the one from the many.... 


Contemplate how to produce ozone with no spark, no arcs nor glow discharge.........

Well if your talking about more than one resonance helping to give a gain, Im seeing it in some speaker boxes. The dual chamber reflex is tuned (in my case) 25hz and 50hz and the difference in output at 25hz in that box is greater than a normal ported box of the same size only tuned to 25hz. A 4th order and especially 6th order bandpass can be tuned where both resonant freq can be brought so close that the output at that freq is just stupid loud. All using the same input level for each case.

Mags

Offline tinman

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #207 on: November 07, 2017, 12:33:50 PM »

what i'm saying mags is that the accepted view be it with the boxes, or electrical circuits, folk are only concerned with a single frequency....  look at nature man, please!  we observe gain as accumulation over time (what is time to nature)....  with specific emphasis on superimposition onto the fundamental... like building a seashell..... try to think of resonance in "chords" rather than single frequencies...


folk don't understand what I suggest....but they don't really try either....  write it all off if you want, but at the end of the day...  you have claims of 18 percent gain from one, whatever gains you yourself see in your endeavours, or nature's method which is the one I am chasing....  I am not intersted in 18 percent or whatever it would be when scaled up...  not the least bit curious about what you got....  Nature is in a class by itself....  thousands of generations in a single seed...show me you comprehend how it accomplishes that task, and I will follow you anywhere!

Apparently some one forgot about the big fire in the sky,which is where all of nature gets it's energy from  ::)

Offline profitis

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #208 on: November 07, 2017, 12:54:32 PM »
Sucks its energy from

Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #209 on: November 07, 2017, 01:05:09 PM »

what i'm saying mags is that the accepted view be it with the boxes, or electrical circuits, folk are only concerned with a single frequency....  look at nature man, please!  we observe gain as accumulation over time (what is time to nature)....  with specific emphasis on superimposition onto the fundamental... like building a seashell..... try to think of resonance in "chords" rather than single frequencies...


folk don't understand what I suggest....but they don't really try either....  write it all off if you want, but at the end of the day...  you have claims of 18 percent gain from one, whatever gains you yourself see in your endeavours, or nature's method which is the one I am chasing....  I am not intersted in 18 percent or whatever it would be when scaled up...  not the least bit curious about what you got....  Nature is in a class by itself....  thousands of generations in a single seed...show me you comprehend how it accomplishes that task, and I will follow you anywhere!

Well Im on the same path of more than 1 resonance since before this thread. Ive already laid it out in the speaker thread.  And the gains Im seeing are not just 18%.  Whether the outcome yet is not overunity, from the original efficiency of the speaker itself, Im seing hundreds of percent in eff gains. There are already speakers that are 100% eff, just they are costly. So add the resonance gains to that and we are 100s of % overunity.

But you seem to be on the end of it that I wished to be a goal of mine once I figured out the circuit analogy of the speaker boxs.  But you are apparently there already.

Its all in that thread. Not making it up. ;)

Mags

 

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