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Author Topic: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....  (Read 28825 times)

Offline Jeg

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #165 on: November 04, 2017, 02:31:20 PM »
This is the current which flows inside my primary and cap during both cycles. (Ozone device). It is without any load connected.

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Offline Jeg

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #166 on: November 04, 2017, 05:23:33 PM »

Cap rate of discharged must be higher than the rate of charge.....  (uh....what....)
Cap must charge through discharge path.... (meaning charging current drives output during charging phase......uh....)
Cap must charge to potential represented by maximum circuit activity in a single transition of the controller ..... open and closed positions represent instances when energy is transferred making them equally important.  (Er....you're not making any sense....)

I was referring to the kind of the switch that would do the job at the igniter circuit. A mosfet alone for example, doesn't look a good idea because when it opens, it doesn't allow the EMF to be developed the way it needs. That is what I called primary's isolation from the rest of the circuitry. Mag's relay does this because arcs between the conducts. I have to test this flash idea.



Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #167 on: November 04, 2017, 09:10:55 PM »
No worries mate. Misunderstandings are common in public forums.  :)


Gosh I was trying to find the connection between the two patents. I could see what happens at ozone device but not at the igniter. My mistake was that i assumed that igniter's switch completely isolates the primary from the other circuitry. But actually...it should really not. Primary always has to be a part to both charging-discharging actions and so in here... Damn Erfinder! In few posts here and there you revealed what Tesla was really doing. Don't have the words to express my appreciation.

ps. Mags accidentally achieved the right switching method, but until recognized, it can't be improved.

Other than the large inductor in place of the motor of the ozone pat circuit, I see the 2 circuits as the same as far as the switch, cap and primary are in relation to the large inductance. Said so for some time now.

The relay switching was the closest I could come to a points contact setup as i could get, without having to have a motor running a distributor with a complete points/condenser for the demonstration.

Mags

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #167 on: November 04, 2017, 09:10:55 PM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #168 on: November 04, 2017, 09:19:05 PM »
https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/blog/controlling-an-ac-load-with-a-mosfet.518/

Would need mosfets that can handle the voltages.  In my circuit I would need pretty high voltage devices.

Mags

Offline norman6538

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #169 on: November 04, 2017, 11:25:59 PM »
I am working on a way to use the RF created by the spark that you hear in the radio.
I have some tests in mind and will report back.
As I said we did collect power in a coil from the RF created in the spark gap.

I don't quite follow Erfinder's stuff on Tesla yet.

Norman

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #169 on: November 04, 2017, 11:25:59 PM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #170 on: November 05, 2017, 01:33:30 AM »
There is a difference between the Igniter and the Ozone circuit, but Im not sure of the difference in operations may have on the circuit.  So Ill connect it up one way then the other and see. ;)

The only change from Igniter to Ozone is the connection of the large inductor to the primary.  Igniter charges the cap bypassing the primary during the cap charge, and the Ozone circuit the large inductor charges the cap through the primary. So what interactions may occur?

Mags

Offline forest

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #171 on: November 05, 2017, 08:14:26 AM »
Mags
You must find the answer to the question : why Tesla patented so many "circuit breakers" ? What he wanted to accomplish ? The partial answer is in his interview about AC currents of high frequency....


" It will become useless as soon as the inefficient apparatus of the day, with antennae that radiate energy rapidly, [are] replaced by a scientifically designed oscillator which does not give out energy except when it gets up to a tremendous electromagnetic momentum."

[/size]
Now take a look at Kapanadze "aquarium box " devices -the energy gets larger and larger until it is dissipated by spark ;-)  That's what Tito and Erfinder don't want you to tell. Inventors mostly do not show the best way , even Tesla :-( But he told us where to look-  in one of the patent ;-)

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #171 on: November 05, 2017, 08:14:26 AM »
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Offline Jeg

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #172 on: November 05, 2017, 12:04:38 PM »
There is a difference between the Igniter and the Ozone circuit, but Im not sure of the difference in operations may have on the circuit.  So Ill connect it up one way then the other and see. ;)


Yes Mags, this applies also to me as yesterday i made wrong assumptions on the way the switch works. Distorted reality due to lack of experience is a common mistake of mine. I'll setup igniter's circuit today to see what happens. I just can't visualize its operation and how the superimposition happens. 

Offline Jeg

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #173 on: November 05, 2017, 01:06:27 PM »
Superimposition of what......and for what purpose...

Regards

Ok. Let me make a crude try on this. Baby steps...

Increased rate momentarily means an increased flux. Increased flux means a momentarily higher amount of energy storage action in the core space, even if core is just air or any other none isotropic material. Like many tiny capacities between points of the core medium. Someone would say yes but we spend current for this energy storage action. But actually, we spend nothing to increase the rate of current for this very brief moment. It's like we momentarily trap extra charges from core space and utilize them in to our advantage. I think that Tesla used CEMF of the inductor in the most useful and productive way.  So, my take is superimposition of voltage under certain conditions.

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #173 on: November 05, 2017, 01:06:27 PM »
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Offline forest

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #174 on: November 05, 2017, 01:18:39 PM »
All I know is that any patent after Tesla is using the same technology, just adding new components. Yet they were applied. This is simply because Tesla was temporarily not able to do that using spark gaps and rotary breakers. But you know Erfinder...I know exactly that circuit breaker is not important, there is something else ...and something very stupid  :P  he he . However I'm opposing the statement that Tesla patents for circuit breaker were not useful and used only to perpetuate the same schematic - no, it was used to hide puzzles. Anyway...how about current flow speed ?  :P

Offline Jeg

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #175 on: November 05, 2017, 02:54:58 PM »
I will keep saying it, all of this is about the damn MOTOR

Hi Erfinder

There is something that bothers me since a lot of time about this motor part. Is there any chance for this motor to work as a current limiter device? I ask this because commutator inserts in current line, small loops, and disengage them very quickly. So the time that these loops are active is independent from any load we attach at the output of the motor. The revolution speed seems to me as a factor of how much current those loops will permit to flow. Even if we ground the output during the half cycle, which means an increase of current, the same time this increment will push the motor for quicker revolutions, which in turn will disengage those loops even quicker. Looks like to me that motor keeps a steady flow independent of the load!   

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #175 on: November 05, 2017, 02:54:58 PM »
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Offline Jeg

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #176 on: November 05, 2017, 03:27:57 PM »
Well, we have two motor coils, in a transformer like relation between each other. The way they are connected looks to me that Cemf opposes to the flow of current which comes from the source. ::)...

Offline Jeg

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #177 on: November 05, 2017, 05:00:36 PM »

You answered your own question.....

Thanks a lot for this pushing ;)

There is also something else happening between the motor coils. It took me a while to understand the mechanism of energy storage between the two half's, which gives thicker spikes when current suddenly stops flowing. A great mind called it once as a flux capacitor...

Offline Jeg

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #178 on: November 05, 2017, 05:34:37 PM »

Soooo...it's established that CEMF is where we need to focus attention....before we get too excited about something we already knew (CEMF limiting current)....answer me this..... 


How many CEMF production methods are operating in the motor at any given instance? Answer that question and catch your first glimpse of the flux capacitor...

WOW! I just saw the whole image!!! all this bunch of coil loops do exactly the same as what i described above!!! So the answer is returned with a question. How many loops are conducting in your machine at any given instance???

Offline forest

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #179 on: November 05, 2017, 09:50:40 PM »
Ok, how is that different from my tip that motor coils are working together to generate more current in "loops"  because when the capacitor is shorted and with Tesla usage of motor coils there are times when inside motor there are closed loops and transformer action from rotor to stator closed loop coils ?
I'm not experienced in motor/generators but that is quite visible. So you say that these additional currents produce more CEMF ? Could you explain why it is important ? I only see it could produce more current in flyback spike when circuit is broken again, but I was unable to confirm that.


I think I should say again - this is only minor effect....  ::)


 

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