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New Battery systems => Super capacitors => Topic started by: Fysikk on October 07, 2017, 04:10:16 PM

Title: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: Fysikk on October 07, 2017, 04:10:16 PM
Hi From Fysikk :

I need some one to test this powercell setup :

Magnesium Metal (Anode)
Acrylic Paint (Catode) (Color does not matter)

Measure with multimeter and let me know the voltage !!

Early last year i discovered that iron or aluminium + acrylic paint
makes max 0.800 mV !!

Since then i have been testing different combinations and always included acrylic
paint without being able to increase the voltage beyound 0.800 mV !!

Sincerly - Kai Anders Wold
Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: hartiberlin on October 10, 2017, 06:35:07 PM
Do you mean 0.8 mV or 0.8 Volts ?

0.8 MilliVolts is just 800 MicoVolts, so that could also be measurement errors....

Try Magnesium as the first electrode qand the 2nd electrode with the electrode made out of Coconut Husk Shells active carbon mixed with Acrylic paint...
That will give great Voltage and current....
Use MgCl mixed with MgSO4 or
just Na2So4 as electrolyte and use a good seperator cloth...

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: Fysikk on October 11, 2017, 11:46:56 AM
Hi

Latest experiments :

Copper (Catode)
Magnesium powder (dielectric) + water
Aluminium (Anode)

Copper (Catode)
Zinc powder (dielectric) + water
Aluminium (Anode)

Dielectrics Tested :

Magnesium = 1.0 Volt (Dielectric Constant 9)
Zinc = 0.565 Volt (Dielectric Constant 3)

The Secret !! :

I have found out that to increase voltage i have
to mix a better dielectric with water and put it
between copper and aluminium.

I have attached - Dielectric Table !!

Sincerly - Kai Anders Wold
Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: Fysikk on October 11, 2017, 12:16:52 PM
Do you mean 0.8 mV or 0.8 Volts ?

0.8 MilliVolts is just 800 MicoVolts, so that could also be measurement errors....

Try Magnesium as the first electrode qand the 2nd electrode with the electrode made out of Coconut Husk Shells active carbon mixed with Acrylic paint...
That will give great Voltage and current....
Use MgCl mixed with MgSO4 or
just Na2So4 as electrolyte and use a good seperator cloth...

Regards, Stefan.

Hi the correct measurement is 0.8 Volt !!

Sincerly - Kai Anders Wold
Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: kampen on October 11, 2017, 11:13:45 PM
@ Stefan,
thanks for the information.

@ Kai,
special thanks for this Dielectric chart gives us a guiding tool for selecting the best suitable material.
Great help indeed to avoid and save mass trial en error work.

Greetings, Alex
Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: Magluvin on October 12, 2017, 02:32:52 AM
I went to a radioshack when they were closing.. I had to dig in boxes to look through stuff..  They had a fill a bag for $25 sale.. My bag was overflowing. Probably over $1000 worth of stuff for 25.

I got 10 of these add water emergency lights. I used a few during the hurricane at my apt. Suppose to only last 72hrs. I have 2 that are still going at my apt. Not as bright as they were then but for 3 white leds in parallel, no current resistors, these little, very light weight batteries are better than anything Ive seen, Still going a month later.

I dont have time to try what your asking till the weekend. But I can take one apart for the magnesium and try.  Have 6 more new.

Here are pics and one that I disassembled after long use..  Maybe these are still available on ebay or something...

mags
Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: Magluvin on October 12, 2017, 06:04:49 AM
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=eton+emergency+light&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xeton+emergency+light+red+cross.TRS0&_nkw=eton+emergency+light+red+cross&_sacat=0


Mags
Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: Magluvin on October 12, 2017, 06:09:44 AM
Actually this was a better search result.  Just in case someone already looked at the previous link.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=eton+emergency+light&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xeton+emergency+light+red+cross.TRS0&_nkw=eton+emergency+light+red+cross&_sacat=0

For experiments and magnesium source for these projects. Can probably cut the magnesium into strips for different experiment configurations.


Mags
Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: Magluvin on October 12, 2017, 06:20:13 AM
I suspect that the fiber layers hold some sort of dry form electrolyte that the water wets. Dont know if that would affect these experiments if some happens to be on the magnesium panel before wetting.

But this on its own must be over 3v to fire the white leds directly. Looks like the copper and possibly the magnesium are a fuel here and get corroded along the way.

I took this one apart a couple weeks ago to see whats inside. One that didnt last long. Look like hand folded and very inconsistent from one to another in how long they last. Want to save it and see if I clean the copper surface and do what I can to see if I can make it work again. Thats my mind goin. Never stop thinking about things. Simple quick experiment to learn something new.

Mags
Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: Fysikk on October 12, 2017, 01:10:26 PM
Hi Magluvin

Let me hear when you have tested magnesium + acrylic Paint !!

Sincerly - Kai Anders Wold
Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: Magluvin on October 12, 2017, 01:41:13 PM
Hi Magluvin

Let me hear when you have tested magnesium + acrylic Paint !!

Sincerly - Kai Anders Wold

In your first post the magnesium is the anode and the acrylic is the cathode.  So shouldnt there be another plate on the acrylic to connect a wire to? 
Like magnesium/acrylic/plate ? If so what metal to use?  Or do we just touch a tiny portion of the acrylic with the meter? Wait till the paint is dry?

Mags

Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: Fysikk on October 12, 2017, 03:25:38 PM
Hi

You just cover a part of the magnesium metal with acrylic Paint to
and just use the multimeter sticks !!

Paint do not need to be dry !!

One of the sticks must only be in contact with paint (Make a thick spot of paint).

Sincerly - Kai Anders Wold
Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: Magluvin on October 13, 2017, 05:00:14 AM
Something to think about..

The meter lead tip may be acting like the different metal of the cell and the paint is the electrolyte.
Im thinking its not just a 2 part cell made of magnesium and paint. I think its the meter lead that is part of the battery you are seeing voltage from.

Put a piece of alum foil on the paint without the foil touching the magnesium directly.  Maybe soak a paper towel in paint and make a cell  Try copper. etc.  we cant exclude the meter lead as part of the cell.

Mags
Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: Fysikk on October 13, 2017, 01:57:59 PM
Something to think about..

The meter lead tip may be acting like the different metal of the cell and the paint is the electrolyte.
Im thinking its not just a 2 part cell made of magnesium and paint. I think its the meter lead that is part of the battery you are seeing voltage from.

Put a piece of alum foil on the paint without the foil touching the magnesium directly.  Maybe soak a paper towel in paint and make a cell  Try copper. etc.  we cant exclude the meter lead as part of the cell.

Mags

Hi here is the copper test !!

Intial voltage 0.445 volt and drained quickly to 0.353 Volt !!

Sincerly - Kai Anders Wold
Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: Magluvin on October 14, 2017, 05:32:41 AM
All batteries have 2 dissimilar electrodes. I believe your meter lead is one of them. I suggest using a plate of whatever your meter lead is coated with or made of if not coated, if your goal is to still only get .8v. Id bet that if you soak a paper towel in lemon juice and put the copper plate back on your voltage would be higher than with the meter lead.

Why the paint as an electrolyte? Have you done long term testing to see if it is better than other electrolytes? If so what did you conclude?

So far you have shown 2 different dissimilar metals with the magnesium and both are below 1v. Most try to achieve as high a voltage as possible in combination with longest power output as a goal.  If just touching the meter lead to the paint to get .8v, there probably isnt much current available as the larger the plates the more current available. Open a car battery. Carefully after flushed out with water and look at how much surface area there is in plates. The copper plate may have had less voltage than the meter lead, but id bet it has more current availability than the meter lead at a higher voltage.

Your meter lead is part of the battery the meter is reading. There has to be some type of metal conductor to extract the power from the cell. if your meter lead were made of magnesium there should be no voltage because there are no dissimilar metals separated by the electrolyte. The copper and magnesium with the lemon juice paper towel should get you better results. Try a weak solution of lemon in water first and compare to pure lemon juice. Or salt water. Alumn and water. I think these will out perform the paint.
Id do it all in smaller pieces of the magnesium foil it looks like you have. Some electrolyte testing could damage the surface and it would be a waste to ruin it all on 1 test when smaller test pieces can be used for testing.
Mags
Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: Magluvin on October 14, 2017, 05:59:27 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv-ykLQ9Ri4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVHacxYKhFI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHwKf-0uomI

Mags
Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: Magluvin on October 14, 2017, 06:00:35 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO75HZ6Pzlw

Mags
Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: Fysikk on October 14, 2017, 06:16:56 PM
Do you mean 0.8 mV or 0.8 Volts ?

0.8 MilliVolts is just 800 MicoVolts, so that could also be measurement errors....

Try Magnesium as the first electrode qand the 2nd electrode with the electrode made out of Coconut Husk Shells active carbon mixed with Acrylic paint...
That will give great Voltage and current....
Use MgCl mixed with MgSO4 or
just Na2So4 as electrolyte and use a good seperator cloth...

Regards, Stefan.

First Experiment :

Mixed - Acrylic Paint + Active Carbon

Pasted it on aluminium foil !!   (0,420 Volt)

Second Experiment :

Mixed - magnesium , acrylic paint , active carbon

Pasted in on aluminium foil !!   (0,932 Volt)

Sincerly - Kai Anders Wold
Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: Magluvin on October 15, 2017, 05:54:51 AM
Did a vid on these Blackout Buddy H2O add water emergency lights

The first one I took apart weeks ago I didnt fully investigate it then as the power was still out here with the hurricane. So I set it aside.

That one seems to be 3 cells and this new one shown activated  with water in the vid seems to have 4 cells.  Maybe it was an upgraded one and the other was a previous version, or the other way around.

So these with whatever the electrolyte is used seem to be about 1v per cell. After cutting off the leds to measure unloaded I go4 about 4v total. In the 2,6v range with the leds as loads.  So My earlier post on thinking it was possibly just a single cell was incorrect.

https://youtu.be/E0OrCfcarfA

Mags
Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: Magluvin on October 15, 2017, 07:02:38 AM
Went out for a midnight snack and when I got back the battery was at about 4.6v. So I added more water to make sure it had all it needs and the voltage went down to about 2v for a bit and slowly climbed. Then I applied pressure with my finger to the battery and the voltage went above 5v to about 5.4v.   So I charged my cam battery as it was low. And here is the update vid below.  So these cells can produce about 1.35v per cell.  Further testing can be done and Ill do one more update after a few hours to see where it is then.  So applying pressure shows that it is making more volts as it is probably squeezing the electrolyte pads thinner and a closer proximity from plate to plate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYppklVpxa4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYppklVpxa4)

Mags
Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: lancaIV on October 15, 2017, 12:22:51 PM
Not the material ,but the arrangement :
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2016/0315367.html
Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: Fysikk on October 16, 2017, 04:10:03 PM
Not the material ,but the arrangement :
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2016/0315367.html

Hi thanks for the information !!

Could be important things inside the patent application !!

My version does have 0.5-0.8 Voltage ready for first use.

Only problem is dielectric leakage !!

The setup in the patent needs to be charged up !!

Sincerly - Kai Anders Wold
Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: Magluvin on October 18, 2017, 01:56:34 AM
What ever the electrolyte used in these blackout buddy lights, it seems to be of a design to only last a very limited time. Without a load on the battery I had shown in my vids, it corrodes the plates fast. Less than 1v from 5.4v peak 2 days later.  The one champion is still going at my apt. Not bright but still enough as a night light for kittys food. Possibly it had a different electrolyte and the later or earlier versions are of a different makeup. Like the first one I took apart had 3 cells and seems like the others I have taken apart have 4..

Mags
Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: overcurrent on October 23, 2017, 03:22:22 PM
Hi magluvin, I wonder if you think this product is scalable in order to produce a bug out buddy that would be able to charge a cell phone because in an emergency situation that would be a valuable tool. I guess the question is can this be scaled up by adding cells thanks
Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: Magluvin on October 24, 2017, 03:36:52 AM
Hi magluvin, I wonder if you think this product is scalable in order to produce a bug out buddy that would be able to charge a cell phone because in an emergency situation that would be a valuable tool. I guess the question is can this be scaled up by adding cells thanks

Hey OC

It would take some work to figure out. The thing is, lots of batteries are good for 10yrs and more now.  Im not sure magnesium is the best route for this. I had just shown it for the topic

I have rechargeable AA and AAA that I have been using for 5yrs and longer and they still keep going.

Mags
Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: Magluvin on October 24, 2017, 06:15:22 AM
Hey OC

It would take some work to figure out. The thing is, lots of batteries are good for 10yrs and more now.  Im not sure magnesium is the best route for this. I had just shown it for the topic

I have rechargeable AA and AAA that I have been using for 5yrs and longer and they still keep going.

Mags

More on this...

In my latest experience, the high end Duracells can be slow charged many times. Also upper end energizer alkaline can be slow charged many times.  I keep the input on my variable supply to max 1.8v per cell at 50ma, and disconnect when the voltage is up to 1.8v for a half an hour. Even did 100ma, no prob so far and they get warm in the middle rang of time till finished  When I do this with cheaper cells the have more tendency to leak.  Ive never had a rechargable AA or AAA leak. Never.  I dont by them cheap no names online. I just spend for the best and i definitely get the best.

As for the slow charging of the ones I show above, they are built better. The reasons batteries leak is they are not made to be sealed well in their casings. Not made to handle heat from hard use.  The better ones are.  Heat developed inside while recharging them will break the seal. Heat while using them will break the seal. The pressures developed inside from chemical degradation from sitting in a drawer or in a device, most always after being used for some time, will leak.   Im in the belief that the duracells and alk energizers when NOT left lower than fully charged will avoid those eventual chemical degradation pressures for a much longer period than normal. It is way more rare with even carbon cells that you will find leaked batts in the drawer that are new and not used yet, than a previously used battery. Even in a flashlight, if never turned on, they should last a longer time than previously used and left to sit.

Like the better of brands that have 10yrs shelf life. They have very good casings and seals.

I dont charge these cells unattended, for obvious reasons, but have had great luck with these upper end cells. I like these over the rechargeables more for their higher voltage per cell. You can see the difference in flashlight brightness, etc.

Im fairly happy with battery energy density of today.  I worry a lot about more energy density to come. Imagine a battery pack the size of your garage made of the same lithium cells in the tesla cars. Each pack in their cars contains 444 panasonic 18650 cells. The best you can get. Ive had one of these blow in my hand. You woulldnt want 1 to blow in your garage bench let alone 444 of them. It was being charged and it released pressure and some juice on my bench. I quickly grabbed it to put outside the garage door. Half way to the door, it happened. Shooting 2 to 3ft flames from each end like a dual ended light saber gone wrong. Burned my hand some but saved the equipment on my bench. In the end it worked out for the best.  Now I will only charge them in a metal cabinet. Look on YT for litium battery fires, explosions, going off in peoples pockets from vape devices. looks like a $100 fireworks display in his pants. One look at that and imagine more energy dense devices.
Maybe they develop superman containers for them, I dunno.  I just dont want to take those chances if I dont have to. If they were so smart now these things wouldnt be a problem today. They cant handle the energy density we have today to prevent all bad possibilities. Look at nuke power plant issues news in the past 10 years and you will be like, dang, I never knew. Just a few...

Fukoshima. Nebraska plant due to floods. Alabama due to tornado ripping up 7 power lines COMING to the plant that handled the COOLING.  60 thousand gal of diesel a day to keep the generators going to cool till those INCOMING lines were fixed.  Insanity from one end of the story to the other. Why cant the plant provide its own cooling electricity?? Are they even producing electricity there??? Or is it fake and just there to make plutonium????  lol Nuts.

That list of news in the last 10 years is huge.

So back to the garage full of 18650 cells.  Now lets look into the future. That garage full is now the size of your bench.  Further, the size of a lunch box. 

If in all 3 cases the energy density is the same, which of the 3 would be MOST dangerous? Would you bring that lunch box into your home, or even anywhere near it? ???

This is on the high end of my list for reasons why we need OU devices. Power on demand instead of small nuke like devices in our homes, cars and devices.

Mags
Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: Fysikk on October 26, 2017, 06:10:35 PM
More facts about my hybrid energy device :

Battery Super Capacitor Hybrid Device (BSD) !!

Aluminium Anode (Battery Type Electrode)

Acrylic Paint Catode (Capacitive Electrode)

Check out the pdfs in the zip archive !!

Sincerly - Kai Anders Wold

Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: Fysikk on November 17, 2017, 01:19:30 PM
Hi

I mixed the following in a cup :

Smashed Iodine Pills , Acrylic Paint , Water

Aluminium foil partially submerged in the cup.

Measured the voltage and got ca 0.960 Volt

Orginal Experiment = Maximum 0.800 Volt

Only problem is dielectric leakage !!

Iodine works as a catalysator (Boosting Conductivity Of Polymers)

Check out attached pdf - Conductive Polymers + Catalyst

Sincerly - Kai Anders Wold

Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: Fysikk on December 06, 2017, 04:49:16 AM
Hi an update :

I have tested the acrylic paint in a large lead battery :

Catode (Lead Oxide) and Anode (Lead)

Voltage 8.28 (Zero A)

Voltage without current is simply static electricity.

Acrylic is composed of polymers (Large Molecules).

Polymers can be charged with static electricity !!

So i have invented a static electric battery !!

The static electric energy only last a few days !! (Voltage is draining)

Sincerly - Kai Anders Wold
Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: Fysikk on June 21, 2018, 11:14:01 PM
Hi

I discovered that my battery experiments with acrylic paint as electrolyte
was simply making voltage because of galvanic reaction (Corrosion).

So i am gonna do research on galvanic corrosion.

I have enclosed images that are related to galvanic corrosion.

Sincerly - Kai Anders Wold 
Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: Fysikk on June 23, 2018, 10:48:25 AM
Hi

I have tested a hybrid battery \ capacitor :

Copper (Catode)
Play doh (Solid Electrolyte)
Aluminium (Anode)

Voltage is alternating between 0.6+ Volt and 0.4+ Volt !!

------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason the solid electrolyte works is that it cointain salt
which is conductive !!

So if you want to make a solid electrolyte - make sure to
include salt in the mixture !!
------------------------------------------------------------------

How To Make Play doh :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pgak1rBwJy4

Check out the enclosed images !!

Sincerly - Kai Anders Wold
Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: Fysikk on July 09, 2018, 05:14:48 AM
I found a difference between catode and anode !!!

I discovered that a battery experiment with zinc anode with more surface did not
increase the voltage , so i discovered that density was the key to the mystery !!

So here is the rule :

Catode = Stores Energy On Surface (More Surface = More Voltage)

Anode = Energy Density (Density Is The Same Regardless Of Size)

Check out the enclosed image !!

Sincerly - Kai Anders Wold
Title: Re: Hybrid Battery / Capacitor Experiment
Post by: Fysikk on August 01, 2018, 02:42:31 PM
Hi

Why is my battery working with a copper seperator blocking the ion flow ??

Copper should allow electrons but not ions (atoms\molecules) …

I thinks the battery conducts zero point energy which works without ions !!

Battery makes between 0.5 - 0.6 Volt (Voltage goes down)

Check out the image enclosed !!

Sincerly - Kai Anders Wold