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### Author Topic: How to build coils and how to design their parameters?  (Read 7121 times)

#### Belfior

• Hero Member
• Posts: 534
##### How to build coils and how to design their parameters?
« on: August 28, 2017, 07:54:00 PM »
I am making my own Kapanadze replica and I would like to understand first how the coil characteristics affect the coil performance and resonance?

This was a good read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resonant_inductive_coupling and I am starting to build a coil setup according to first picture so with 3 coils.

What I want to know is that how the following parameters affect coil resonance, voltages and frequencies:

1. Primary wire gauge
2. Secondary wire gauge
3. Primary distance to the secondary. If it is a grenade coil and the primary is on top of the secondary, but they have physical distance. Like the copper tube has in TK videos
4. Number of turns on primary
5. Number of turns on secondary
6. Distance of the load coil from the secondary

Primary coil I was planning to tune in resonance just by driving it with a TL494 module and square wave. Find the highest voltage on scope (by tuning driving frequency) and that is the primary resonance?
Secondary I would make just by guessing the number of turns and then tune it to resonate with the primary coil. Tuning would be done by a variable cap (just an idea. Don't know if it actually works like this with a variable cap)

I would think the load coil will resonate with the secondary, if their parameters match?

Getting some information on these values 1-6 could help me design the coils towards certain frequencies and voltages.

#### AlienGrey

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3713
##### Re: How to build coils and how to design their parameters?
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2017, 01:24:15 PM »
I am making my own Kapanadze replica and I would like to understand first how the coil characteristics affect the coil performance and resonance?

This was a good read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resonant_inductive_coupling and I am starting to build a coil setup according to first picture so with 3 coils.

What I want to know is that how the following parameters affect coil resonance, voltages and frequencies:

1. Primary wire gauge
2. Secondary wire gauge
3. Primary distance to the secondary. If it is a grenade coil and the primary is on top of the secondary, but they have physical distance. Like the copper tube has in TK videos
4. Number of turns on primary
5. Number of turns on secondary
6. Distance of the load coil from the secondary

Primary coil I was planning to tune in resonance just by driving it with a TL494 module and square wave. Find the highest voltage on scope (by tuning driving frequency) and that is the primary resonance?
Secondary I would make just by guessing the number of turns and then tune it to resonate with the primary coil. Tuning would be done by a variable cap (just an idea. Don't know if it actually works like this with a variable cap)

I would think the load coil will resonate with the secondary if their parameters match?

Getting some information on these values 1-6 could help me design the coils towards certain frequencies and voltages.
Hi you sound rich in the old ways,  I was 5 years ago, might be longer if you go to youtube and look up a guy who has a screen name Stalker, sorry it's in Russian but you can use google and translate and the cc option, and forget every thing you all read know might help.

Allen

good luck Allen

#### Belfior

• Hero Member
• Posts: 534
##### Re: How to build coils and how to design their parameters?
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2017, 03:33:08 PM »
Hi you sound rich in the old ways,  I was 5 years ago, might be longer if you go to youtube and look up a guy who has a screen name Stalker, sorry it's in Russian but you can use google and translate and the cc option, and forget every thing you all read know might help.

Allen

good luck Allen

Old way is the way to go. When the circuits get too "sterile" you lose auto-tuning that nature provides. Spark gaps are the way to go. Maybe NE-2 bulbs so no ozone

I will go look those videos up. CC and Google translate will mess up everything and change all information to cookie recipes, but I will try. I have some "translated" Russian documents, but they are messed up too. Europen Union seems to mean Over Unity when it is translated...

#### Void

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2333
##### Re: How to build coils and how to design their parameters?
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2017, 08:40:19 PM »
Hi Belfior. The length of wire, the diameter of the wire, spacing between turns, and the dimensions of the coil
will all affect the self resonant frequency of a coil. The self resonant frequency of a coil depends on the
coils's inductance and the coil's self capacitance. You can use a signal generator and an oscilloscope to measure
the self resonant frequency of a coil fairly closely, but it is not quite that straight forward. Close proximity of other conductive objects
to the coil and connecting other wires and components to the coil will all affect the coil's self resonant frequency,
as doing this alter's the total capacitance seen by a coil, which will alter the frequency the coil resonates at. So you
can measure a coil's self resonant frequency alone by itself when it is not connected to anything, but as soon as you
you move the coil close to other circuit components and connect it into a circuit that self resonant frequency
will typically change to some degree.

You can use this online tesla coil software to help calculate approximate coil resonant frequencies.
Click the 'Load Sample Coil' button in the top right of the grid, to load some sample coil parameters,
and you can play around with the 'Insert values for the Secondary Coil' section to match your intended coil
parameters and then click the 'Run JAVATC' button below the first grid section to calculate the
approximate secondary coil resonant frequency in that sort of configuration. This should be fairly ballpark,
but the exact resonant frequency of a coil will depend on other factors as well, as I mentioned above.
To figure out what the various parameters do in JavaTC, picture a standard tesla coil arrangement and it should
start to make more sense after you play around with the program a bit. Remove any top loads from the configuration
(toroid, sphere, disc, cylinder), as they will lower the resonant frequency of the secondary coil if used.
JAVATC
http://www.classictesla.com/java/javatc/javatc.html

If you connect a capacitor in series or in parallel to a coil, you can use an online calculator like this one:
Resonant frequency calculator
http://www.1728.org/resfreq.htm

Also, you can possibly use a GDT (gas discharge tube) in place of a sparkgap, and you can purchase them
for different desired breakover voltages, but they can potentially overheat under continuous high current
use, so their suitability will depend on requirements. Also, a GDT may or may not be suitable
for use in a Kapanadze type of device, as that is still anyone's guess at this point. Here's a picture
of a common type of GDT:
http://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/electronics/images/gas_discharge_tubes/littelfuse_gdt_gtca28_image.jpg.jpg

#### Belfior

• Hero Member
• Posts: 534
##### Re: How to build coils and how to design their parameters?
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2017, 10:52:34 AM »
Hi Belfior. The length of wire, the diameter of the wire, spacing between turns, and the dimensions of the coil
will all affect the self resonant frequency of a coil. The self resonant frequency of a coil depends on the
coils's inductance and the coil's self capacitance. You can use a signal generator and an oscilloscope to measure
the self resonant frequency of a coil fairly closely, but it is not quite that straight forward. Close proximity of other conductive objects
to the coil and connecting other wires and components to the coil will all affect the coil's self resonant frequency,
as doing this alter's the total capacitance seen by a coil, which will alter the frequency the coil resonates at. So you
can measure a coil's self resonant frequency alone by itself when it is not connected to anything, but as soon as you
you move the coil close to other circuit components and connect it into a circuit that self resonant frequency
will typically change to some degree.

You can use this online tesla coil software to help calculate approximate coil resonant frequencies.
Click the 'Load Sample Coil' button in the top right of the grid, to load some sample coil parameters,
and you can play around with the 'Insert values for the Secondary Coil' section to match your intended coil
parameters and then click the 'Run JAVATC' button below the first grid section to calculate the
approximate secondary coil resonant frequency in that sort of configuration. This should be fairly ballpark,
but the exact resonant frequency of a coil will depend on other factors as well, as I mentioned above.
To figure out what the various parameters do in JavaTC, picture a standard tesla coil arrangement and it should
start to make more sense after you play around with the program a bit. Remove any top loads from the configuration
(toroid, sphere, disc, cylinder), as they will lower the resonant frequency of the secondary coil if used.
JAVATC
http://www.classictesla.com/java/javatc/javatc.html

If you connect a capacitor in series or in parallel to a coil, you can use an online calculator like this one:
Resonant frequency calculator
http://www.1728.org/resfreq.htm

Also, you can possibly use a GDT (gas discharge tube) in place of a sparkgap, and you can purchase them
for different desired breakover voltages, but they can potentially overheat under continuous high current
use, so their suitability will depend on requirements. Also, a GDT may or may not be suitable
for use in a Kapanadze type of device, as that is still anyone's guess at this point. Here's a picture
of a common type of GDT:
http://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/electronics/images/gas_discharge_tubes/littelfuse_gdt_gtca28_image.jpg.jpg

good stuff Void! This will keep me occupied for weeks!

#### Belfior

• Hero Member
• Posts: 534
##### Re: How to build coils and how to design their parameters?
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2017, 07:33:51 PM »
Good information on how to select your MOSFETs for the driving circuitry.