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Author Topic: Skinner 1939 gravity machine centrifugal force tests and hope  (Read 7892 times)

Offline norman6538

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Re: Skinner 1939 gravity machine centrifugal force tests and hope
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2017, 01:14:54 AM »
I did some more work with centrifical force and had some good success.
I magine a bicycle turned upside down with the pedals and crank up and
all tubing cut off except for the seat tube and that seat tube is on a pivot.
Then replace the pedals with weights and as they rotate there will be a
centrifical force twisting from one side to the other as the work out.

I had used a horizontal version of this earlier but it had losses to reset
and repeat due to an incline but with 2 opposite weights and vertical rotation
those losses are eliminated.

There is a rhythm to the twisting that is mechanical in nature and I did
not get the desired twist all of the time. Yes is is over unity but not
constantly. I present the idea for anyone who wants to improve this.

Attached is a drawing to match the above description and also a photo.
It was driven by a weight on a string which also lifted another weight
on a string from the twisting. I wanted a latching and releasing mechanism
but could not design one with close enough tolerance to work.


Norman

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Eighthman

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Re: Skinner 1939 gravity machine centrifugal force tests and hope
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2017, 06:23:12 PM »
In regard to mechanical devices, the matter seems very clear to me:


Can a set mass be switched on and off, in effect, thru some sort of rotation?   If any anomaly can be shown to do this, that might create free energy.

Offline norman6538

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Re: Skinner 1939 gravity machine centrifugal force tests and hope
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2018, 11:16:31 PM »
I finally got my video uploaded. Youtube lost my original id and I had to make a new one
when google took over.


https://youtu.be/ezEFbl-7wpY

This will show the twisting output from the centrifical balanced bicycle crank
rotation. A weight on a string drives the rotation that generates the twisting.
I do not have work out measured yet because it requires a 2 ratchet setup
to lift and hold the weight for several cycles so I can get a good measurement.

Now that its cold and Christmas is over I will have time to work on this.

Norman

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Skinner 1939 gravity machine centrifugal force tests and hope
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2018, 11:16:31 PM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Skinner 1939 gravity machine centrifugal force tests and hope
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2018, 12:59:16 AM »
In regard to mechanical devices, the matter seems very clear to me:


Can a set mass be switched on and off, in effect, thru some sort of rotation?   If any anomaly can be shown to do this, that might create free energy.


“switched on/off”?  or “effectively” switched on/off?
as we know, gyroscopic precession can nullify the force of gravity.
which, in essence, is how I see this machine as functioning.


Because the weights are not only rotating, but moving up and down
through the gravitational field, this puts forces on the main-pivot.
The pivot controls what “up and down” are, with respect to the
rotating weights.




Offline Eighthman

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Re: Skinner 1939 gravity machine centrifugal force tests and hope
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2018, 02:25:41 AM »
As to effectively switching mass on or off, I was thinking about a simple experiment by physicist Richard Vialle (j naudin site)


He built a pivoting balance beam structure. One end had a motor, the other end had a weighty rotor that was driven by that motor, thru a long shaft.


It was well balanced but when he accelerated the rotor, it got lighter (went up).  When deaccelerated, it got more weighty.
Simple as that.  Indeed, I was shocked by how simple this was in contrast to what (I think) it suggests. 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Skinner 1939 gravity machine centrifugal force tests and hope
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2018, 02:25:41 AM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Offline sm0ky2

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Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Skinner 1939 gravity machine centrifugal force tests and hope
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2018, 03:03:47 AM »
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Offline norman6538

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Re: Skinner 1939 gravity machine centrifugal force tests and hope
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2018, 01:57:23 PM »
https://youtu.be/jCOctgVIR6Q


And


https://youtu.be/g4KGjadObaY

David Quirey did a wonderful job on that setup. That gave me the trigger to work on
just what centrifical force would do. I never went back to the Skinner stuff because
there were a couple guys that made very serious replications that did not pan out
so I thought I could probably not add anything more.

Norman

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Skinner 1939 gravity machine centrifugal force tests and hope
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2018, 02:10:59 PM »
The thing to take from skinner,
Is that the driving force is the axial tilt.
Not a direct rotational torque.


The rotational force is caused by gravity.


The axial-tilt is caused by the rotary-to-linear (crank) drive
of the small motor.


The tilt is assisted by the rotational precession force.
Change in rotational angle exerts a force on the axis.


David Quirey restricts the axis to 2 dimensions of freedom.
Back and forth.


Skinners machines actually allowed for 360-degrees of freedom of axial-tilt.
Restricted to the elliptical path of the crank.


Quirey shows the resultant "sine wave"  figure 8 pattern.
Skinner, the wobbling-ellipse.


In both cases, the rotating force is gravity, on the mass of the off-set weights.


The linear force, is the tilting of a balanced-mass on a vertical shaft.


These are two entirely different forces, numerically.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Skinner 1939 gravity machine centrifugal force tests and hope
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2018, 02:10:59 PM »
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Offline norman6538

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Re: Skinner 1939 gravity machine centrifugal force tests and hope
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2018, 02:34:21 PM »
Thanks sm0ky2 for that excellent description of those forces at play.

I knew the tilting was important but not why.

I'm wondering how this may apply to the Bessler wheel.
He mentioned "constantly falling" and that is what the tilt
seems to do.

Norman

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Skinner 1939 gravity machine centrifugal force tests and hope
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2018, 03:01:57 PM »

Did the test show that the mass was effected, changed or some how no longer under the influence of gravity,,,,, or did it show that the lever arm moment was modified or decreased by  precesion.


All the tests I have seen that were done on a scale had the scale showing the same weight.


A lot of people confuse mass with weight.
and weight with gravitational energy.
The first two are as far apart as the second two.


Mass is an inherent property of physical matter.
The mass of an object stays the same wherever you put it.
The weight of an object is a property of the gravitational field it is in.
objects can have positive or negative weight, but the mass stays the same.
Here on earth, the acceleration is positive (9.8m/s/s).
Things less than the mass of the earth, have a positive weight.


gravitational energy is a function of local time-space.
relative velocity plays a major part in this. (at speeds close to c)
Your “apparent weight” at close to light-speed would be much greater.
This effects the moment of inertia as well as our use of mass, mathematically.


These are very simplistic terms to vaguely describe extremely complex interactions,
I say these things only to point out that the forces at play are different in nature.
And should not be considered as the same things. Though they are all interrelated.


Also, scales read force. Generally in one vector.
And it is easily proven that no matter where you place your scale, in the experiment
you are not measuring all of the forces, in all of the vectors.
The force in the downward vector will always be g
So, empirically your weight never changes on earth. But your “effective weight” can.
it is the forces in the other vectors that control your “effective weight”.
Bouyancy, centrifugal forces, magnetism, inertia/momentum, whatever the case may be.


When we consider a rotating mass shifting from the horizontal plane of rotation,
to a non-horizontal vector, forces come into play that are not in the vertical vector.
these can translate to a reduction or an increase in “effective weight”.
The result is an increase or decrease in gravitational acceleration.


A gyro on a lever, with a balanced counter weight will “see-saw” in response to changes in
rotation as well as changes in angle of rotation.
two gyros on a central axis can cause rotation of the arm or wheel about its axis.


In the horizontal plane, we can see these forces at play independently
In other vectors, the gravitational force is factored in.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Skinner 1939 gravity machine centrifugal force tests and hope
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2018, 03:01:57 PM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: Skinner 1939 gravity machine centrifugal force tests and hope
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2018, 03:46:24 PM »
Sm0ky2

Recently Les Banki forwarded this simple experiment from Kevin Hays [along with other experiments from Kevin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9KCI5J-Thg

a friend of ours is building to investigate the claim , he is a very good open source builder ...but likes his quiet time when investigating claims .

will update when results arrive .

and yes to the rolling eyes in the cheap seats...we know its impossible..

or is It?

no stone left unturned

Edit
Hmmm
I see the flogging continues below ...
that poor pony needs some oats...

but yes Mr.Hays does grow.....errrr medical pharmaceuticals....




Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Skinner 1939 gravity machine centrifugal force tests and hope
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2018, 04:31:19 PM »
... "Stoned" being the operative word here, I think....


Offline Eighthman

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Re: Skinner 1939 gravity machine centrifugal force tests and hope
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2018, 05:01:12 PM »
I don't see that Vialle's balance beam experiment involved precession exactly. Nor do I see much benefit in arguing definitions if it is possible to transiently overcome gravity in a rotating mass, in such a way as to allow a net gain of energy.


Indeed, one reason I think this field is worth looking at is because it is viewed as tin foil hat 'toxic' or a dead end because centrifugal force gets labeled as a pseudo force and after that all thinking seems to stop.  Pat answers are eagerly accepted by physics people and the matter ends there.  In addition, the people who actually bother to experiment keep misunderstanding the causes of what they observe - or fail to figure out how to close the loop.  Hence, skeptics appear and dismiss whatever gadget is shown by questioning any continuing input. As with Skinner....


 

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