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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: Craigy on November 24, 2006, 01:40:25 AM
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Hi All,
After the excitment of the mervace thread, i got to thinking. Has any one tried to use Adams idea to get over the sticky spot in the takahashi type of motor. Wouldn't it be nice if we could remove the externally powered electromagnet with one that produced enough kick with the passing of the rotor.
Or it doesn't work we can tune it to the bbc and post it on you tube working.
LOL
Craig
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Hello Craigy,
that's my idea since I had seen Merv's engine, too.
Let's development it.
Regards
Peter Schmalenbach
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I am up for this and have been playing with a pickup coil I ordered from
http://www.freelights.co.uk/how.html
This Coil creates alot of energy from little input. I have waved a really weak ferrite magnet over the top of this pickup and it creates enough AC voltage to light 3 LEDS on one stroke and 2 on the reverse with not a lot of effort, these LED's light up very bright.
Placing this units against one of my wheels with just 2 magnets attached gives a nice steady AC pulse.
I am not sure that a pickup coil, a reed switch and a second coil will be enough, so have ordered some germanium diodes to build a Bridge rectifier with small voltage drop and also a 16V 10,000UF Cap to store the pulses of energy created by this coil. This will hopefully store an enough DC power.
I reckon if I I can use 4 magnets on a wheel, then 3 of the magnets pulsing the pickup coil may be enough to store enough energy in the Capacitor to trigger the Electromagnetic coil onto the 4th magnet during rotation.
Of course the Reed switch will come into play based on maybe a seperate magnet spaced away from the main group to get the timing correct.
Will post some pictures when the bits arrive.
Regards
Sean.
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Hi Peter,
i am not sure that the rotor passing over coil will provide enough power on its own in the wankel type of motor.
But,..And its a big but. What if we try and harness the power of the rotor on its way around to top dead centre?
i.e. place coils and stator magnets around the rotor, as the magnets push the rotor around and towards top dead centre where the trigger magnet is, the rotor induces a current in all coils it passes which is used to charge an electrolytic capacitor.
Now when the stator reaches the traditional sticky spot we use the standard adams back emf idea plus use the charge in the cap to get over the sticky spot.
Now i have heard it said, that to get over the sticky spot one requires more energy than the system can produce. i.e 101 percent since all energy gained is dissipated in the sticky spot. But is that assumption correct?
Here is a magnetic wankel concept video for those of us who need to see what we are talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1Z1THqv_G4
What do you think?
Cheers
Craig
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Clanzer , i was writing the previous post at the same time as yourself. Great minds think alike i believe..
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@All,
That was the hope with @Merv's device but, as we all saw, it was a big disappointment.
The problem with the Torbay motor seems different from @Merv's but in fact is exactly the same -- the system cannot generate enough push to overcome its internal obstacles and relies on external power sources to function. Torbay motor has to be so constructed that the created torque is enough to lift the next magnet and depress the trailing one, allowing the rotor to turn. So far, apparently no one has been able to achieve this. Indeed, everyone who has tried has observed generation of torque. That torque, however, has always been way insufficient to overcome the said obstacles. I still think that it's a matter of construction and if one has the chance to optimize it properly it may reach a moment whereby the created torque will be enough to overcome the hindrances. It seems that the creation of the torque is independent of the said obstacles and one may think that there should be ways to increase it for the same level of the mentioned obstructions.
In the same way one may think that @Merv's device can be optimized to have the induced current from within to generate enough electric energy which would help in overcoming the sticky spot. Something like Paul Sprain's device but working internally. Paul Sprain's device uses brute force, as it were, and deals with the sticky spot in a simple, radical manner. Who knows, maybe this is a better approach for practical purposes, if indeed Paul Sprain's motor is indeed a perpetuum mobile (yet to be confirmed), rather than dealing with delicate balances as in Torbay.
I guess, I don't need to mention what gives me the assurance that these studies should be continued. It is the fact that SMOT has now been conclusively proven to violate the principle of conservation of energy even when not in a closed-loop. To me this has a greater value than any practical device because it has a pure scientific importance and devious destructive commercial interests are out of it.
Of course, I'd like to see a closed-loop SMOT too although I realize the problems in tweaking it so that it can begin working are almost as complicated as those with Torbay. It took me some time to adjust the SMOT in http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2383887636280790847 even for that inefficient lift. See how asymmetric my SMOT is for it to work. Contrary to all expectations. I can imagine what difficulties one would have to attain the efficiency needed for a closed loop. And each one individual SMOT has to have its own construction. I don't think any two SMOTs can be the same. I guess, the first thing to do is to prepare a proper scientific apparatus for the study. The same as when you prepare the set-up for your PhD studies. It may take years to get to the point where you would have a proper apparatus to study the phenomena connected with your dissertation. In this case, for instance, the SMOT needs to be able to move the magnets up, down, sideways by minute amounts while maintaining the sturdiness of the construction. There should be ways to actually see the magnetic fields -- say, by using multiple hall probes that would allow the form of the field to be displayed on the moitor for adjustment and so on.
I am quite intrigued by Peter's endeavor. Peter, do you have a way to study the exact form of the quasi-toroid magnetic field in your device and can you show it here? Also, what will happen if you start the ball from another point not from the 14th (I guess) station? What exactly is the problem with the track at the sticky point, can you draw it and show us? Why would a laser cutter solve it?
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I rigged up the pickup coil from http://www.freelights.co.uk/how.html today with a bit of sticky tape!
I used one of my wheels with 4 not over strong ferrite magnets just to see if it would excite the coil enough to light the 5 LEDS at low revs and indeed it does with not alot of effort needed.
Have attached a Video to show what I mean. Sorry for the bad quality, but it was done on a small digital camera and I converted it to Divx to try and keep the size down.
Regards
Sean.
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Beware of judging output with LEDs.
LEDs require a tiny current to run. They are a poor indication of anything. If you look at this:
http://www.powermanagementdesignline.com/products/188700611
you will see LEDs running off 0.25 mA. (Don't know the voltage).
Paul.
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Agree and thanks Paul.
The LED's are standard 5MM Bright LED's that are rated at 3.4Volts and pull 30ma DC Forward Current and Pulse Forward current of 100ma.
Because the coil is producing AC the two white LED's light on one side of the pulse and the three Red LED's on the other side.
I am looking to place a capacitor in place to see how much power I can get stored from those pulses at the moment and take it from there.
Placing a Digital meter across the wires shows ac voltage coming out of anywhere between 3 to 15 volts of course depending how fast you spin the wheel.
Will see if I got any normal torch bulbs around and see if it can supply enough current to light that.
Regards
Sean.
Beware of judging output with LEDs.
LEDs require a tiny current to run. They are a poor indication of anything. If you look at this:
http://www.powermanagementdesignline.com/products/188700611
you will see LEDs running off 0.25 mA. (Don't know the voltage).
Paul.
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I am quite intrigued by Peter's endeavor. Peter, do you have a way to study the exact form of the quasi-toroid magnetic field in your device and can you show it here? Also, what will happen if you start the ball from another point not from the 14th (I guess) station? What exactly is the problem with the track at the sticky point, can you draw it and show us? Why would a laser cutter solve it?
Hello all,
I can start the ball from each stage (somewhere). The speed then is a little bit slower (a little bit slow down).
I think if all stages have the same characteristics (like 16, 1, 2, .... until 13) the ball permanently rotates (makes revolutions).
There are not any problems with the stages 14 and 15.
I could adjust immediately now these stages like the other good stages, but then I also must correct (change, alter, tune) the stages 11, 12, 13 and 16, 1 and 2. This needs a minimum of 2-3 days working time. During the last 4 months I only had adjusted and tuned the magnets (I had forgotten my family).
There is a working - toleranz of +/- 0.3 - 0.4 mm in all the hollows and +/- 1 mm in the length of the hollows. ==> therefore laser cutter needed
I'll try to adjust 14 and 15 in the next weeks. At the moment I let the device in its present condition (state) because the ball runs so well and good.
In this condition I want to demonstrate the device in some companies and labors (e.g. SIEMENS).
I need help from a professional company or from a laboratory.
But you know what the most of them say: "It cannot work ......"
http://www.schmalenbach.de/video3.mpg
http://www.schmalenbach.de/patent ==>big fotos, drawings (in German, but I think that's not a problem / "Bild" = foto)
Regards
Peter Schmalenbach
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Hi Omnibus, Peter, Clanzer and all.
I think Clanzers efforts are worth while, he may not get enough power but that is why i started the thread. We must unfortunately go through all ideas one by one till we hit the jackpot. ( nice work on your page clanzer).
Going off topic a little, Omnibus mentioned the Torbay, which i have been struggling with for the last 2 months. I think it was mentioned to Clanzer a few months ago that hard disk drives are a good source of shielding material. So 3 gutted hard drives later i have a little shielding material.
To quote Omnbus
" The problem with the Torbay motor seems different from @Merv's but in fact is exactly the same -- the system cannot generate enough push to overcome its internal obstacles and relies on external power sources to function. Torbay motor has to be so constructed that the created torque is enough to lift the next magnet and depress the trailing one, allowing the rotor to turn. So far, apparently no one has been able to achieve this. Indeed, everyone who has tried has observed generation of torque. That torque, however, has always been way insufficient to overcome the said obstacles. I still think that it's a matter of construction and if one has the chance to optimize it properly it may reach a moment whereby the created torque will be enough to overcome the hindrances"
Tonight i got my rotor to move by placing the shielding in front of the Stators.
I will have to post a video, it will be very crude but i hope it will be able to show on camera that the concept has hope of working. 2 or 3mm of shield affects the stators field enough to create the gap in that field that the torbay requires to work. My conclusion is. Fix all stators and attempt the moving of the shield via a linear bearing. Forget all Those stators clanking up and down and top hats with ramps.
Next question is how much force do you need to move the shield? Let me just say i am optimistic, ( i always am at the begining of a project LOL)
I will move the shields with a couple of servos to start with, since that will take us nicely back on topic to Clanzers efforts trying to store enough power on 180 or 270 degrees of rotation to feed back at top dead centre. LOL
Craig
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@Craigy,
This shielding material is truly amazing. I could never find out what exactly it is and where it can be purchased from. I've tried various other permalloy (mumetal) sheets but none of them was as efficient as this one, from within the hard drive.
Mind you also that technically the idea with the shielding of the magnet is a different idea from that of the Torbay motor (although, ultimately all these ideas may be boiled down to the same principle). It has been around for quite some time but to no avail. I'm curious what your experience with it will be.
My understanding is that if the concept is sound (as it seems to be judging from the SMOT) one should be able to construct sucessfully self-sustaining machines of various constructions. It's only a matter of a proper optimization which is not at all an easy practical task.
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just wondering is anyone working on Firsruds principle Getting a ball moving in straight line or circle. Using a induced magnatic field in the area or in the two rails. From mains power to start with? Peters efforts show movement is possible in a magnetic field. I like to work with 110% . Get it working at any cost then Fine tune and work in reverse. That a result if a device worked with 101% thats very close. Sorry my device proved dissapointing to some of you. Look at the new ideas it produced. And free lights UK sold some extra bike generators. Good result all round don't you think
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Hi Craigy,
About the Hard disk drives shielding, can you show a picture of the part you are using as shielding?
Thanks Joe
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Hi Craigy
I have still not got round to stripping down some hard drives, have only got 3.5" ones here, and someone said the old 5.25" were bigger bits as such.
What drives did you pull them from and as Joe says, be great to see some pictures.
Should have my diodes and Caps arrive tomorrow, so will rig them up and see how many spins on the wheel take to get enough charge in that Cap.
Still working on the theory that after so many spins of the wheel the charge will be enough in the capacitor to supply enough energy to pulse a Electromagnet.
If it takes say 10 revolutions of the wheel to get this charge then I am hoping that the pulse delivered to the electro magnet will pulse the magnets enough to get another 10 spins etc etc.
I am going to use a embedded controller (Microchip Pic) to read the reed switches and count the revolutions and also trigger the load from the Capacitor to the Electromagnet.
This should get the timing down to a T and also I have had Pic Chips running off a very small voltage as low as 1.0 volt, as long as the clock speed is not too fast.
So hoping the extra circuit will not pull too much load.
Another option I want to try is using my Rig with the Arm, as in testing by hand I only have to move it a few mm's to clear the sticky spot and maybe, just maybe I can generate enough power to pull that arm out of the sticky point again using a Electromagnet. I think this will need a bigger wheeel though to get enough charge from the small coil as this would have to happen once every revolution.
Or as Craigy says, to maybe move a bit of shielding back and forth to get over the sticky point.
What is different I feel with this experiment is that there are plenty of designs around that have tried to charge a Cap by using a coil and storing the pulses, but using the Freelights coil it brings another element into play, you are exciting a magnet inside a coil and the drag is not that bad and also the tumbling of the magnet in that coil seems to produce more than just a coil having a magnet passed over it.
Gravity helps as you can hear the magnet inside the sealed box tumble back down and create a few valuable pulses after the magnets have passed.
Will let you know.
Regards
Sean.
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Hi all,
Well as i promised, this is a crude video of me using shielding to move a torbay rotor. For the sceptics out there i understand that doing things with my hand is not ideal, but i have 4 one inch linear bearings on order from the states which i hope will prove beyond a resonable doubt that the idea is valid. Anyway, i hope this will create some interest, Enjoy!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OPedvvRr0M
Craigy
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Excellent Craigy
I was expecting to see a small amount of shield, but that is a pretty hefty lump.
Seems you only need to maybe shield 10 percent from the start of the arc of magnets, to get past the sticky point, that seems to be about the same on all my different wheels.
You get past that point and away she goes.
Do you find the shielding has a strong attraction to your moving magnet or does it get pulled more towards the arc of magnets?
Regards
Sean.
Hi all,
Well as i promised, this is a crude video of me using shielding to move a torbay rotor. For the sceptics out there i understand that doing things with my hand is not ideal, but i have 4 one inch linear bearings on order from the states which i hope will prove beyond a resonable doubt that the idea is valid. Anyway, i hope this will create some interest, Enjoy!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OPedvvRr0M
Craigy
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Hi Clanzer,
Since i am using the torbay configuration or rotor and stator there are 4 stator magnets keeping the rotor locked, when we place the shielding between one of the rotors and stators as per video, the machine behaves as if the stator was lifted, i.e rotor moves aided by the repelling forces of the other 3 fixed stators.
The actual force on the shield is difficult to judge, ( when i get linear bearings i will be able to mesure it) but is a lot less than the energy required to push a stator down. the stator seems to attract the shielding more i think. As i said, need to fix the shields well to give an honest opinion.
Also shield does not need to completely cover the stator, as you say , affecting the field by 10 % is enough to get movement..
Craig
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Craigy
I am also leaning towards the Neutral line as discussed by The Gary Effect Magnetic Motor which the shielding can be a short cut too.
Which in theory if the shielding is set correctly between the stator and the rotor could free up the energy needed to remove it when needed.
If this neutral line exists then it will be a great help. Either that or I read the concept of The Gary Effect Magnetic Motor completley wrong LOL !!!
http://www.centuryinter.net/tjs11/church/gary.htm
Regards
Sean.
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Hey guys
I have built both of wesley gary's machines and there is a neutral line, but it only appears when a flat piece of metal is placed between two magnets in repulsion. It relies completely on the distance between the magnets, strength of magnets and size of shield- get it all right and the shield is totally neutral. What few people realize is that in both machines wesley gary made he balanced the forces with springs. What happens when an attractive force is completely counterbalanced with spring forces? The magnet can be moved freely inward and outward with little energy--and it's a very,very hard to do trust me- because the attractive force is nonlinear.
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I have a hunch that our friends at Steorn have the same or very similar idea, shame if we got there first though..
The shield used in the video is 2mm thick and oddly shaped, i have shield that is up to 4mm thick, but you have to use what you can find. I have emailed a few hard disk manufacturers asking about that shield material, so perhaps one might answer. If i knew what it was called i might be able to find out more about it, but doing searches to try and find info on hard disk drive shielding etc brings up nothing of any use.
Just saw allcanadian's post "Bingo" ..we should at least get the torbay working with shield's then gentlemen..LOL
Craig
Craig
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Uh Ohh what did I do now?
I just had a thought, that maybe It might help to post things I know work, that I have tested. That work pretty neat, so here goes nothing. In picture(1) there are two mags in repulsion with a thin metal shield between them. Here's whats intersesting-
- the shield works even if its 1/16th inch on N38 neos, works better if thin
- the shield must be exactly centered between mags
- Move both mags equally in or out until there is no repulsion between them with shield centered
- the shield moves freely until it's edge passes the end of the magnet, then its attracted back towards the mags(so what if you used springs to pull on the shield balancing the attractive force?)
there would be no pull back and the shield would move freely.
Picture(2)
A magnet pulling on a hinged flat metal bar
- The magnetic force of attraction gets stronger the closer the bar get's
- the first spring on left holds bar up with constant pressure(linear)
- the second spring has a square wire loop and pin so it does not pull on the bar until it moves so far down, this is called a loss of motion mechanism.
- the third spring is the same as second, So as the bar moves down in attraction the spring forces exactly match the magnetic forces, so the metal bar has neutral forces and moves freely.This is the primary mechanism in the wesley gary generator which nobody seems to care about.
Picture(3)
Rotary LEMA
I proved the LEMA process with this machine.
- the grey shield is a "C" section metal shield 1/8th inch thick free to rotate on a center shaft.
- three 1" round by 1/2" thick N38 neo magnets placed on round washer 3/8th inch apart with shield free to rotate around washer.
- Shield roughly covers only two magnets at a time designated by black lines.
- shield will move with basically no force between magnets, uncovering end magnet at each end.
- When shield passes end magnet it is attracted back, I see endless applications for this little device, if the whole washer was covered with equally spaced magnets?
Anyways these are my top picks for now, It is weird that so many people read so many things into Wesley Gary's machines. When in his patents he tells you roughly how it works, but in a cryptic kind of way. Basically his neutral line with one magnet is bogus, I tried hundreds of combinations, But with two magnets in repulsion and a spring balanced shield it's a piece of cake. Try it you will like it.
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Hi all canadian,
Very interesting, what types of metal shielding did you experiment with? Was it just standard steel?
In my experiment on video the shield i place over the stator magnet does not have the magnets from the rotor directly opposite.
Now, it is not opposite the rotor magnets, so when introducing the shield there is a lot of attraction to the stator which is not a bad thing in this instance. Since we need to cover the stator to provoke movement. BUT when movement is under way i conclude that the force required to remove the shield will be very reduced because it would now be in Balance ( at least some of the time) against the Rotor magnets, as you have explained in your previous post.
I can't wait to get my hands on some linear bearings, so will try and knock up a quick and dirty alternative this weekend which should keep me experimenting until the Bearings arrive from the states.
Thus i hope that we will end up with 2 avenues of investigation. The first is that if the shield is well balanced we can move it electrically using a "Clanzer" type device that discarges energy gained to move said shield Or the Second is that we could get a torbay hybrid which has lots of torque, to move the shields up and down via a cam. Again since shields would be balanced , effort required to move them would be much less than if we were trying to raise/ lower stators.
Something must be wrong here....It seems too good to be true!
Craig
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Well Caps and Diodes arrived today, so quickly knocked up a bridge rectifier with the 4 diodes and put the 16Volt 10,000 uf cap in place.
Span the wheel up and watched the voltage/charge int he Cap creep up slowly.
Had a small 5 volt solenoid attached to the other end of the Cap with a push button attached, so when the voltage was upto 5volts, pressed the button and yep sure enough there was enough power to move the solenoid arm a good 10mm unloaded. Using my fingers I could not stop it's arm being pulled in, so plenty of power in the little devil to lift either shielding out the way or move a magnet.
Not impressed though, takes alot of rotations on the small 8 inch wheel using 4 magnets and the coil to charge that Cap up enough.
So next went back to a 8 wire Stepper motor and put all 4 coils of the stepper in series, put this on the cap and diode combination and the voltage shot upto 5 volts on just a couple of revolutions by hand, very impressed.
I reckon it Needs abit more torque than the little wheel can deliver, but now very tempted to mill out say a 24 inch wheel or used a bicyle wheel and attach the wheel directly to the stepper motor.
Will attach the small wheel and try over the next day to see how many revolutions it takes to get to get the power stored and go from there. I also have some 6 wire stepeprs than turn alot more easy than the 8 wire ones, so will wire these up and experiement.
I am thinking along the lines of more lifting the Craigy shield rather than moving a magnet, as this can be done in mind every couple of revolutions, which in return will apply the magnet back to full repulsion for the next spin.
@allcanadian nice pictures mate and well done.
Regards
Sean.
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Hi Clanzer,
Just a thought, what about using the stepper motor as the bearing on a takahashi magnetic motor? Smaller but maybe less work to knock up?
Craig
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Hi allcanadian and All,
Quote:..."It is weird that so many people read so many things into Wesley Gary's machines. When in his patents he tells you roughly how it works, but in a cryptic kind of way. Basically his neutral line with one magnet is bogus, I tried hundreds of combinations, But with two magnets in repulsion and a spring balanced shield it's a piece of cake. Try it you will like it."
I would like to add Ben Thomas and my own understandings on Gary's neutral line concept. I made some tests in 2003 when I first saw Ben's home page on his ongoing experiments. Earlier I read Gary's Canadian patent and as I understood, he suggested the best effect is with HORSESHOE magnets (though he left open the possibility of using other shapes of magnets.) So I tested the neutral line' existance with a horseshoe magnet and with a rectangular piece of 20mm x 45mm, 3mm thick ferrite block. I did not make photos then from my work, but saved Ben's photos from his site and attached here. (His site does not exist now.)
In his first picture you can see the iron block placed exactly onto the neutral zone (Ben named it NZS line) and his Hall probe shows zero flux density (practically 0 Volt). This means that the iron does not show any magnetism received from the very near horseshoe!
In his second picture he moved the iron piece a bit above the NZS line (further away from the magnet) and the meter shows -0.131V , indicating a pole appeared on the iron piece.
And in his third picture he moved the iron piece below the NZS line (nearer to the horseshoe) and the meter shows +0.245V, indicating the appearance of the opposite pole on the same iron piece ending.
So the point is that easier to use horseshoe magnet to receive the neutral line than differently shaped magnets as you experienced.
Thanks for your ideas, especially the rotary LEMA, I like it. If you fill up the space on the rim of the washer with further magnets, you will get a symmetrical setup (in which the shield is supposed to rotate very easily) and you have to find clever ways to disturb the symmetry with the least amount of outside work. (Igor Knitel in this Forum showed similar shield-rotated setup with big ring magnets).
Regards
Gyula
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Hi All,
I would like to remark wrt the Wesley Gary concept that the soft iron (or ferrite) block can be positioned ABOVE or BELOW of the horseshoe endings, for neutral lines exist at those places too (the iron block is in FRONT of the horseshoe endings in the photos).
In Gary's Canadian patent the horseshoe magnet is drawn only in Fig. 5, and in the explanatory Figs. 1-4 only the endings of the horseshoe is drawn in a simply way, this is as I understand.
You can easily make a "horseshoe" magnet by using two rectangular block (or even cylinder) magnets and attach them to one side of a rectangular soft iron block, just near its endings, with opposite poles.
I understand that at the moment the horseshoe or the likely shaped magnet arrangements are perhaps not the best shapes for us at moment to directly use in setups like this thread is mainly involved. With my contribution I wished to clarify more precisely Gary's neutral line concept.
Gyula
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Hi Craig
I had a look at the Takahashi /Wankel engine a while back. Still trying to suss out what is actually attached to the electromagnet that moves when the rotor hit top center.
I do not really see how it will get over the sticky point force.
Regards
Sean.
Hi Clanzer,
Just a thought, what about using the stepper motor as the bearing on a takahashi magnetic motor? Smaller but maybe less work to knock up?
Craig
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Hi Gyula
Excellent info, many thanks and very interesting.
This is defo going to be a good contribution to help ideas going around.
Regards
Sean.
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Hi Clanzer and all.
as i understood it in the wankel, the electro magnet was just fired at top dead centre to push the rotor over the sticky spot, no mechanical movement as such. But having said that, look at the thread " Servo assisted magnetic motor, there is a nice video Jose did of his machine. In it he uses a modified servo motor to wiggle the top dead centre magnet and gets it spinning around nicely.
One wonders how many joules of energy you could get on 300 degrees of rotation, i might be wrong, but the wankel normally does not suffer a lack of torque so using stepper motor as bearing and generator would be a quick way of knocking something up. I have to think small unfortunatly as everything i have made so far has been made outside on a plastic patio table..LOL
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here is my shielding attempt , more is on the torbay thread
Craigy
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Nice work Craigy, look forward to seeing more.
Have been playing with different stepper motors attached to wheels the last few days and my conclusion is that they need too much torque to be of any use in charging the Cap enough to then energise another coil.
If I had a bigger, heavier wheel then I think the force would be very different, but I am gonna stick to me little wheels for now while I am playing as scaling up will take too much time.
I am still thinking also on the lines of the two cogs idea for experiementing and appreciatte what people are saying about the shield being attracted to the static magnet, but also am thinking that if the spacing is correct then the neutral line idea kicks in maybe?
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1757.0.html
Regards
Sean.
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You idea is novel, and i believe that attraction to shield is not a bad thing.
The neutral spot is hard to get at when we are talking about just 2 flat magnets with a plate in the middle. Here we have the shield entering a highly fluctuating magnetic field. There are multiple magnets each with a different field and added to that they are mounted in a circle best i can do on my torbay is an approximation.
But for all of that, if we introduce attraction , or introduce a shield to disrupt the normal flow of events at the right moment, even for a fraction of an instant, this might be the solution.
I have an idea , that is related in part to the torbay shield. Now as the rotor gets to top dead centre where the sticky spot is, we show it some shield, That Shield will attract the rotor to it. My theory is, if you do that action quickly enough, by having the shield sprung so that it returns to its parking spot , the disruption in the sticky mecanics will be such as to break the sticky spot.
Am i making sense or going crazy?
Craig
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Craigy mate, your as Crazy as me, but I think that is a good thing!!!!!!
I like the idea and if you had seen some of the things I have been doing latley you would laugh ya socks off, but my Kidz know I am mad and deep down I reckon they like it!!!
Keep up the good work, oneday we might just hit on summit by accident!
Regards
Sean.
You idea is novel, and i believe that attraction to shield is not a bad thing.
The neutral spot is hard to get at when we are talking about just 2 flat magnets with a plate in the middle. Here we have the shield entering a highly fluctuating magnetic field. There are multiple magnets each with a different field and added to that they are mounted in a circle best i can do on my torbay is an approximation.
But for all of that, if we introduce attraction , or introduce a shield to disrupt the normal flow of events at the right moment, even for a fraction of an instant, this might be the solution.
I have an idea , that is related in part to the torbay shield. Now as the rotor gets to top dead centre where the sticky spot is, we show it some shield, That Shield will attract the rotor to it. My theory is, if you do that action quickly enough, by having the shield sprung so that it returns to its parking spot , the disruption in the sticky mecanics will be such as to break the sticky spot.
Am i making sense or going crazy?
Craig
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Hi Clanzer, its going to be one of those weekends when the mother in law comes around and i can't complete what i so desperately want to complete.
So far i have started to test other materials as "Shields" although i don't like that word, i think standard steel will do the job i want. The Shields from the harddrives were used to test the concept, since if that material didn't work then nothing would probably work.
Let me elaborate on my theory of why attraction is not a bad thing, when using a repulsion motor.
We all know that when you get to the end of the track the rotor bounces off of the sticky spot.
Assuming the the rotor is made up of many magnets the ones on the leading edge are the ones that encounter the sticky spot. The ones behind are all happily following on behind and as far as they are concerned they are still following the down hill gradient in flux. Like water down a water fall.
Now at the end of the line, or last bit of track or last repelling magnet we encounter the "Wall" that begins to brake the magnet and finally bounce it back the way it came.
If that braking force is 100% of the kinetic energy obtained in the run up to the sticky spot then if we reduce the braking by 10% we would get Rotation! i.e. Flashing a bit of leg ..er i mean steel at the rotor would produce moments of attraction which in turn would reduce the braking efficiency
The Law of Magnetics according to Craigy , This was a thought experiment.
But i like it LOL
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Darn Mother in laws hehehe, do they not realise we trying to save the world here? LOL ;D
Can see what you are saying about using attraction to accelerate through the sticky point, so are you leaning towards having the shield being attracted to the rotating magnets as the sticky point comes around rather that using the shield towards the static magnets to displace the field?
I did try this in a round a bout way on one of my spiral wheels, by simply changing the first two magnets to face South outwards and left the rest of the spiral of magnets with North facing out, but the attraction was enough to stop the wheel dead when it cam around. Now using some sort of shield that would be there briefly to add the attraction and then remove it at the right time could work.
Regards
Sean.
Hi Clanzer, its going to be one of those weekends when the mother in law comes around and i can't complete what i so desperately want to complete.
So far i have started to test other materials as "Shields" although i don't like that word, i think standard steel will do the job i want. The Shields from the harddrives were used to test the concept, since if that material didn't work then nothing would probably work.
Let me elaborate on my theory of why attraction is not a bad thing, when using a repulsion motor.
We all know that when you get to the end of the track the rotor bounces off of the sticky spot.
Assuming the the rotor is made up of many magnets the ones on the leading edge are the ones that encounter the sticky spot. The ones behind are all happily following on behind and as far as they are concerned they are still following the down hill gradient in flux. Like water down a water fall.
Now at the end of the line, or last bit of track or last repelling magnet we encounter the "Wall" that begins to brake the magnet and finally bounce it back the way it came.
If that braking force is 100% of the kinetic energy obtained in the run up to the sticky spot then if we reduce the braking by 10% we would get Rotation! i.e. Flashing a bit of leg ..er i mean steel at the rotor would produce moments of attraction which in turn would reduce the braking efficiency
The Law of Magnetics according to Craigy , This was a thought experiment.
But i like it LOL
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Hi all,
After many experiments and construction i have discovered a small fault in my shields.In the photo above i was using a chunk of harddisk shielding, i then went about making up 4 shields out of steel.
My concept is valid i believe but i have now got rid of all of the steel. the idea works if you only have one shield ,and the rotor is under magnetic tension. But when you add more and more shields the steel is upsetting the flux to much. Reducing the effect and it produces sticky spots in areas that didin't have sticky spots LOL. I had made the shield or "Attractors" about 100 times too big.
I have now changed the shields for ali, so that i can still use the guides that i made for the steel ones. These ali plates or shields move up and down just as the others made of steel. but with one small difference...
To be continued
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Hi Clanzer and All
I emailed Western Digital about hard disk drive shielding and this was the their reply to the question what is it?:
aluminum substrate, coated with a magnetic surface manufactured by Komag, Fuji, or Showa.
Well something for google,
Cheers
Craig
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Hi Craigy
I think they are on about the Platters not the shield
Pop in Google aluminum substrate + Hard Drives.
Regards
Sean.
Hi Clanzer and All
I emailed Western Digital about hard disk drive shielding and this was the their reply to the question what is it?:
aluminum substrate, coated with a magnetic surface manufactured by Komag, Fuji, or Showa.
Well something for google,
Cheers
Craig
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I was thinking about the adams motor "again" and had an interesting thought. Take a horseshoe magnet and inbetween the poles put a DC motor armature, now the motor should turn when power is applied to the armature- it will attract and replel the PM field. The motor could be made very efficient with a pulsing input, maybe 90 percent if done right-- so it would be near unity 100 percent.
Here is where it gets weird, when the armature is in attraction the whole PM field travels through it, in repulsion none of the PM field travels through the armature--so what happens if the DC motor armature in repulsion was also used to switch the PM field to another coil nearby as in my picture. The armature is still repelled but the PM field is also redirected completely to the external coil, so if the DC armature work out is equal to the electrical input to the armature then the second coil output must drive it to 100 percent or better effeiciency.
Better yet, what happens when the DC armature has no load attached? thus can do no work.- and armature output is based on electrical input remember?
Very strange indeed.