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Author Topic: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?  (Read 16986 times)

Offline Craigy

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Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2006, 10:20:03 PM »
Hi all,

Well as i promised, this is a crude video of me using shielding to move a torbay rotor. For the sceptics out there i understand that doing things with my hand is not ideal, but i have 4 one inch linear bearings on order from the states which i hope will prove beyond a resonable doubt that the idea is valid. Anyway, i hope this will create some interest, Enjoy!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OPedvvRr0M

Craigy


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Offline CLaNZeR

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Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2006, 10:34:00 PM »
Excellent Craigy

I was expecting to see a small amount of shield, but that is a pretty hefty lump.

Seems you only need to maybe shield 10 percent from the start of the arc of magnets, to get past the sticky point, that seems to be about the same on all my different wheels.
You get past that point and away she goes.

Do you find the shielding has a strong attraction to your moving magnet or does it get pulled more towards the arc of magnets?

Regards

Sean.


Hi all,

Well as i promised, this is a crude video of me using shielding to move a torbay rotor. For the sceptics out there i understand that doing things with my hand is not ideal, but i have 4 one inch linear bearings on order from the states which i hope will prove beyond a resonable doubt that the idea is valid. Anyway, i hope this will create some interest, Enjoy!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OPedvvRr0M

Craigy



Offline Craigy

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Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2006, 10:52:05 PM »
Hi Clanzer,

Since i am using the torbay configuration or rotor and stator there are 4 stator magnets keeping the rotor locked, when we place the shielding between one of the rotors and stators as per video, the machine behaves as if the stator was lifted, i.e rotor moves aided by the repelling forces of the other 3 fixed stators.

The actual force on the shield is difficult to judge, ( when i get linear bearings i will be able to mesure it) but is a lot less than the energy required to push a stator down. the stator seems to attract the shielding more i think. As i said, need to fix the shields well to give an honest opinion.

Also shield does not need to completely cover the stator, as you say , affecting the field by 10 % is enough to get movement..

Craig

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2006, 10:52:05 PM »
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Offline CLaNZeR

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Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2006, 11:25:34 PM »
Craigy

I am also leaning towards the Neutral line as discussed by The Gary Effect Magnetic Motor which the shielding can be a short cut too.
Which in theory if the shielding is set correctly between the stator and the rotor could free up the energy needed to remove it when needed.
If this neutral line exists then it will be a great help. Either that or I read the concept of The Gary Effect Magnetic Motor completley wrong LOL !!!


http://www.centuryinter.net/tjs11/church/gary.htm

Regards

Sean.


Offline allcanadian

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Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2006, 12:20:21 AM »
Hey guys
I have built both of wesley gary's machines and there is a neutral line, but it only appears when a flat piece of metal is placed between two magnets in repulsion. It relies completely on the distance between the magnets, strength of magnets and size of shield- get it all right and the shield is totally neutral. What few people realize is that in both machines wesley gary made he balanced the forces with springs. What happens when an attractive force is completely counterbalanced with spring forces? The magnet can be moved freely inward and outward with little energy--and it's a very,very hard to do trust me- because the attractive force is nonlinear.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2006, 12:20:21 AM »
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Offline Craigy

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Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2006, 12:34:48 AM »
I have a hunch that our friends at Steorn have the same or very similar idea, shame if we got there first though..

The shield used in the video is 2mm thick and oddly shaped, i have shield that is up to 4mm thick, but you have to use what you can find. I have emailed a few hard disk manufacturers asking about that shield material, so  perhaps one might answer. If i knew what it was called i might be able to find out more about it, but doing searches to try and find info on hard disk drive shielding etc brings up nothing of any use.

Just saw allcanadian's post "Bingo" ..we should at least get the torbay working with shield's then gentlemen..LOL

Craig

Craig

Offline allcanadian

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Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2006, 07:38:27 AM »
Uh Ohh what did I do now?
I just had a thought, that maybe It might help to post things I know work, that I have tested. That work pretty neat, so here goes nothing. In picture(1) there are two mags in repulsion with a thin metal shield between them. Here's whats intersesting-
- the shield works even if its 1/16th inch on N38 neos, works better if thin
- the shield must be exactly centered between mags
- Move both mags equally in or out until there is no repulsion between them with shield centered
- the shield moves freely until it's edge passes the end of the magnet, then its attracted back towards the mags(so what if you used springs to pull on the shield balancing the attractive force?)
there would be no pull back and the shield would move freely.

Picture(2)
A magnet pulling on a hinged flat metal bar
- The magnetic force of attraction gets stronger the closer the bar get's
- the first spring on left holds bar up with constant pressure(linear)
- the second spring has a square wire loop and pin so it does not pull on the bar until it moves so far down, this is called a loss of motion mechanism.
- the third spring is the same as second, So as the bar moves down in attraction the spring forces exactly match the magnetic forces, so the metal bar has neutral forces and moves freely.This is the primary mechanism in the wesley gary generator which nobody seems to care about.

Picture(3)
Rotary LEMA
I proved the LEMA process with this machine.
- the grey shield is a "C" section metal shield 1/8th inch thick free to rotate on a center shaft.
- three 1" round by 1/2" thick N38 neo magnets placed on round washer 3/8th inch apart with shield free to rotate around washer.
- Shield roughly covers only two magnets at a time designated by black lines.
- shield will move with basically no force between magnets, uncovering end magnet at each end.
- When shield passes end magnet it is attracted back, I see endless applications for this little device, if the whole washer was covered with equally spaced magnets?

Anyways these are my top picks for now, It is weird that so many people read so many things into Wesley Gary's machines. When in his patents he tells you roughly how it works, but in a cryptic kind of way. Basically his neutral line with one magnet is bogus, I tried hundreds of combinations, But with two magnets in repulsion and a spring balanced shield it's a piece of cake. Try it you will like it.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2006, 07:38:27 AM »
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Offline Craigy

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Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2006, 09:04:00 PM »
Hi all canadian,

Very interesting, what types of metal shielding did you experiment with? Was it just standard steel?
In my experiment on video the shield i place over the stator magnet does not have the magnets from the rotor directly opposite.

Now, it is not opposite the rotor magnets, so when introducing the shield there is a lot of attraction to the stator which is not a bad thing in this instance. Since we need to cover the stator to provoke movement. BUT when movement is under way i conclude that the force required to remove the shield will be very reduced because it would now be in Balance ( at least some of the time) against the Rotor magnets, as you have explained in your previous post.
I can't wait to get my hands on some linear bearings, so will try and knock up a quick and dirty alternative this weekend which should keep me experimenting until the Bearings arrive from the states.

Thus i hope that we will end up with 2 avenues of investigation. The first is that if the shield is well balanced we can move it electrically using a "Clanzer" type device that discarges energy gained to move said shield Or the Second is that we could get a torbay hybrid which has lots of torque, to move the shields up and down via a cam. Again since shields would be balanced , effort required to move them would be much less than if we were trying to raise/ lower stators.

Something must be wrong here....It seems too good to be true!

Craig

Offline CLaNZeR

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Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2006, 10:17:02 PM »
Well Caps and Diodes arrived today, so quickly knocked up a bridge rectifier with the 4 diodes and put the 16Volt 10,000 uf cap in place.

Span the wheel up and watched the voltage/charge int he Cap creep up slowly.

Had a small 5 volt solenoid attached to the other end of the Cap with a push button attached, so when the voltage was upto 5volts, pressed the button and yep sure enough there was enough power to move the solenoid arm a good 10mm unloaded. Using my fingers I could not stop it's arm being pulled in, so plenty of power in the little devil to lift either shielding out the way or move a magnet.

Not impressed though, takes alot of rotations on the small 8 inch wheel using 4 magnets and the coil to charge that Cap up enough.

So next went back to a 8 wire Stepper motor and put all 4 coils of the stepper in series, put this on the cap and diode combination and the voltage shot upto 5 volts on just a couple of revolutions by hand, very impressed.
I reckon it Needs abit more torque than the little wheel can deliver, but now very tempted to mill out say a 24 inch wheel or used a bicyle wheel and attach the wheel directly to the stepper motor.

Will attach the small wheel and try over the next day to see how many revolutions it takes to get to get the power stored and go from there. I also have some 6 wire stepeprs than turn alot more easy than the 8 wire ones, so will wire these up and experiement.

I am thinking along the lines of more lifting the Craigy shield rather than moving a magnet, as this can be done in mind every couple of revolutions, which in return will apply the magnet back to full repulsion for the next spin.

@allcanadian nice pictures mate and well done.

Regards

Sean.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2006, 10:17:02 PM »
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Offline Craigy

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Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2006, 10:58:13 PM »
Hi Clanzer,

Just a thought, what about using the stepper motor as the bearing on a takahashi magnetic motor? Smaller but maybe less work to knock up?

Craig

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2006, 04:04:31 PM »
Hi allcanadian and All,

Quote:..."It is weird that so many people read so many things into Wesley Gary's machines. When in his patents he tells you roughly how it works, but in a cryptic kind of way. Basically his neutral line with one magnet is bogus, I tried hundreds of combinations, But with two magnets in repulsion and a spring balanced shield it's a piece of cake. Try it you will like it."

I would like to add Ben Thomas and my own understandings on Gary's neutral line concept. I made some tests in 2003 when I first saw Ben's home page on his ongoing experiments. Earlier I read Gary's Canadian patent and as I understood, he suggested the best effect is with HORSESHOE magnets (though he left open the possibility of using other shapes of magnets.)   So I tested the neutral line' existance with a horseshoe magnet and with a rectangular piece of 20mm x 45mm, 3mm thick ferrite block. I did not make photos then from my work, but saved Ben's photos from his site and attached here. (His site does not exist now.)

In his first picture you can see the iron block placed exactly onto the neutral zone (Ben named it NZS line) and his Hall probe shows zero flux density (practically 0 Volt). This means that the iron does not show any magnetism received from the very near horseshoe!

In his second picture he moved the iron piece a bit above the NZS line (further away from the magnet) and the meter shows -0.131V , indicating a pole appeared on the iron piece.

And in his third picture he moved the iron piece below the NZS line (nearer to the horseshoe) and the meter shows +0.245V, indicating the appearance of the opposite pole on the same iron piece ending.

So the point is that easier to use horseshoe magnet to receive the neutral line than differently shaped magnets as you experienced.

Thanks for your ideas, especially the rotary LEMA, I like it. If you fill up the space on the rim of the washer with further magnets, you will get a symmetrical setup (in which the shield is supposed to rotate very easily) and you have to find clever ways to disturb the symmetry with the least amount of outside work. (Igor Knitel in this Forum showed similar shield-rotated setup with big ring magnets).

Regards
Gyula

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Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2006, 04:04:31 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2006, 08:05:42 PM »
Hi All,

I would like to remark wrt the Wesley Gary concept that the soft iron (or ferrite) block can be positioned ABOVE or BELOW of the horseshoe endings, for neutral lines exist at those places too (the iron block is in FRONT of the horseshoe endings in the photos).

In Gary's Canadian patent the horseshoe magnet is drawn only in Fig. 5, and in the explanatory Figs. 1-4 only the endings of the horseshoe is drawn in a simply way, this is as I understand.

You can easily make a "horseshoe" magnet by using two rectangular block (or even cylinder) magnets and attach them to one side of a rectangular soft iron block, just near its endings, with opposite poles.
I understand that at the moment the horseshoe or the likely shaped magnet arrangements are perhaps not the best shapes for us at moment to directly use in setups like this thread is mainly involved.  With my contribution I wished to clarify more precisely Gary's neutral line concept.

Gyula

Offline CLaNZeR

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Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2006, 09:05:26 PM »
Hi Craig

I had a look at the Takahashi /Wankel engine a while back. Still trying to suss out what is actually attached to the electromagnet that moves when the rotor hit top center.

I do not really see how it will get over the sticky point force.

Regards

Sean.

 
Hi Clanzer,

Just a thought, what about using the stepper motor as the bearing on a takahashi magnetic motor? Smaller but maybe less work to knock up?

Craig

Offline CLaNZeR

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Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2006, 09:07:14 PM »
Hi Gyula

Excellent info, many thanks and very interesting.
This is defo going to be a good contribution to help ideas going around.

Regards

Sean.

Offline Craigy

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Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2006, 12:40:29 AM »
Hi Clanzer and all.

as i understood it in the wankel, the electro magnet was just fired at top dead centre to push the rotor over the sticky spot, no mechanical movement as such. But having said that, look at the thread " Servo assisted magnetic motor, there is a nice video Jose did of his machine. In it he uses a modified servo motor to wiggle the top dead centre magnet and gets it spinning around nicely.
One wonders how many joules of energy you could get on 300 degrees of rotation, i might be wrong, but the wankel normally does not suffer a lack of torque so using stepper motor as bearing and generator would be a quick way of knocking something up. I have to think small unfortunatly as everything i have made so far has been made outside on a plastic patio table..LOL

 

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