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Author Topic: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?  (Read 16105 times)

Offline Craigy

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Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« on: November 24, 2006, 01:40:25 AM »
Hi All,

After the excitment of the mervace thread, i got to thinking. Has any one tried to use Adams idea to get over the sticky spot in the takahashi type of motor. Wouldn't it be nice if we could remove the externally powered electromagnet with one that produced enough kick with the passing of the rotor.

Or it doesn't work we can tune it to the bbc and post it on you tube working.

LOL

Craig

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Offline peter_schmalenbach

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Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2006, 08:41:48 PM »
Hello Craigy,

that's my idea since I had seen Merv's engine, too.

Let's development it.

Regards
Peter Schmalenbach

Offline CLaNZeR

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Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2006, 10:24:46 PM »
I am up for this and have been playing with a pickup coil I ordered from
http://www.freelights.co.uk/how.html

This Coil creates alot of energy from little input. I have waved a really weak ferrite magnet over the top of this pickup and it creates enough AC voltage to light 3 LEDS on one stroke and 2 on the reverse with not a lot of effort, these LED's light up very bright.
Placing this units against one of my wheels with just 2 magnets attached gives a nice steady AC pulse.

I am not sure that a pickup coil, a reed switch and a second coil will be enough, so have ordered some germanium diodes to build a Bridge rectifier with small voltage drop and also a 16V 10,000UF Cap to store the pulses of energy created by this coil. This will hopefully store an enough DC power.

I reckon if I I can use 4 magnets on a wheel, then 3 of the magnets pulsing the pickup coil may be enough to store enough energy in the Capacitor to trigger the Electromagnetic coil onto the 4th magnet during rotation.

Of course the Reed switch will come into play based on maybe a seperate magnet spaced away from the main group to get the timing correct.

Will post some pictures when the bits arrive.

Regards

Sean.


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Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2006, 10:24:46 PM »
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Offline Craigy

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Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2006, 10:38:07 PM »
Hi Peter,

i am not sure that the rotor passing over coil will provide enough power on its own in the wankel type of motor.
But,..And its a big but. What if we try and harness the power of the rotor on its way around to top dead centre?
i.e. place coils and stator magnets around the rotor, as the magnets push the rotor around and towards top dead centre where the trigger magnet is, the rotor induces a current in all coils it passes which is used to charge an electrolytic capacitor.
Now when the stator reaches the traditional sticky spot we use the standard adams back emf idea plus use the charge in the cap to get over the sticky spot.

Now i have heard it said, that to get over the sticky spot one requires more energy than the system can produce. i.e 101 percent since all energy gained is dissipated in the sticky spot. But is that assumption correct?

Here is a magnetic wankel concept video for those of us who need to see what we are talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1Z1THqv_G4

What do you think?

Cheers

Craig




Offline Craigy

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Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2006, 10:46:07 PM »
Clanzer , i was writing the previous post at the same time as yourself. Great minds think alike i believe..

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Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2006, 10:46:07 PM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2006, 06:16:49 AM »
@All,

That was the hope with @Merv's device but, as we all saw, it was a big disappointment.

The problem with the Torbay motor seems different from @Merv's but in fact is exactly the same -- the system cannot generate enough push to overcome its internal obstacles and relies on external power sources to function. Torbay motor has to be so constructed that the created torque is enough to lift the next magnet and depress the trailing one, allowing the rotor to turn. So far, apparently no one has been able to achieve this. Indeed, everyone who has tried has observed generation of torque. That torque, however, has always been way insufficient to overcome the said obstacles. I still think that it's a matter of construction and if one has the chance to optimize it properly it may reach a moment whereby the created torque will be enough to overcome the hindrances. It seems that the creation of the torque is independent of the said obstacles and one may think that there should be ways to increase it for the same level of the mentioned obstructions.

In the same way one may think that @Merv's device can be optimized to have the induced current from within to generate enough electric energy which would help in overcoming the sticky spot. Something like Paul Sprain's device but working internally. Paul Sprain's device uses brute force, as it were, and deals with the sticky spot in a simple, radical manner. Who knows, maybe this is a better approach for practical purposes, if indeed Paul Sprain's motor is indeed a perpetuum mobile (yet to be confirmed), rather than dealing with delicate balances as in Torbay.

I guess, I don't need to mention what gives me the assurance that these studies should be continued. It is the fact that SMOT has now been conclusively proven to violate the principle of conservation of energy even when not in a closed-loop. To me this has a greater value than any practical device because it has a pure scientific importance and devious destructive commercial interests are out of it.

Of course, I'd like to see a closed-loop SMOT too although I realize the problems in tweaking it so that it can begin working are almost as complicated as those with Torbay. It took me some time to adjust the SMOT in http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2383887636280790847 even for that inefficient lift. See how asymmetric my SMOT is for it to work. Contrary to all expectations. I can imagine what difficulties one would have to attain the efficiency needed for a closed loop. And each one individual SMOT has to have its own construction. I don't think any two SMOTs can be the same. I guess, the first thing to do is to prepare a proper scientific apparatus for the study. The same as when you prepare the set-up for your PhD studies. It may take years to get to the point where you would have a proper apparatus to study the phenomena connected with your dissertation. In this case, for instance, the SMOT needs to be able to move the magnets up, down, sideways by minute amounts while maintaining the sturdiness of the construction. There should be ways to actually see the magnetic fields -- say, by using multiple hall probes that would allow the form of the field to be displayed on the moitor for adjustment and so on.

I am quite intrigued by Peter's endeavor. Peter, do you have a way to study the exact form of the quasi-toroid magnetic field in your device and can you show it here? Also, what will happen if you start the ball from another point not from the 14th (I guess) station? What exactly is the problem with the track at the sticky point, can you draw it and show us? Why would a laser cutter solve it?

Offline CLaNZeR

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Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2006, 01:38:03 PM »
I rigged up the pickup coil from http://www.freelights.co.uk/how.html today with a bit of sticky tape!

I used one of my wheels with 4 not over strong ferrite magnets just to see if it would excite the coil enough to light the 5 LEDS at low revs and indeed it does with not alot of effort needed.

Have attached a Video to show what I mean. Sorry for the bad quality, but it was done on a small digital camera and I converted it to Divx to try and keep the size down.

Regards

Sean.



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2006, 01:38:03 PM »
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Offline Paul-R

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Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2006, 03:53:28 PM »
Beware of judging output with LEDs.

LEDs require a tiny current to run. They are a poor indication of anything. If you look at this:
http://www.powermanagementdesignline.com/products/188700611
you will see LEDs running off 0.25 mA. (Don't know the voltage).
Paul.

Offline CLaNZeR

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Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2006, 04:29:36 PM »
Agree and thanks Paul.

The LED's are standard 5MM Bright LED's that are rated at 3.4Volts and pull 30ma DC Forward Current and Pulse Forward current of 100ma.

Because the coil is producing AC the two white LED's light on one side of the pulse and the three Red LED's on the other side.

I am looking to place a capacitor in place to see how much power I can get stored from those pulses at the moment and take it from there.

Placing a Digital meter across the wires shows ac voltage coming out of anywhere between 3 to 15 volts of course depending how fast you spin the wheel.
Will see if I got any normal torch bulbs around and see if it can supply enough current to light that.

Regards

Sean.



Beware of judging output with LEDs.

LEDs require a tiny current to run. They are a poor indication of anything. If you look at this:
http://www.powermanagementdesignline.com/products/188700611
you will see LEDs running off 0.25 mA. (Don't know the voltage).
Paul.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2006, 04:29:36 PM »
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Offline peter_schmalenbach

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Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2006, 09:02:02 PM »

I am quite intrigued by Peter's endeavor. Peter, do you have a way to study the exact form of the quasi-toroid magnetic field in your device and can you show it here? Also, what will happen if you start the ball from another point not from the 14th (I guess) station? What exactly is the problem with the track at the sticky point, can you draw it and show us? Why would a laser cutter solve it?


Hello all,

I can start the ball from each stage (somewhere). The speed then is a little bit slower (a little bit slow down).
I think if all stages have the same characteristics (like 16, 1, 2, .... until 13) the ball permanently rotates (makes revolutions).

There are not any problems with the stages 14 and 15.

I could adjust immediately now these stages like the other good stages, but then I also must correct (change, alter, tune) the stages 11, 12, 13 and 16, 1 and 2. This needs a minimum of 2-3 days working time. During the last 4 months I only had adjusted and tuned the magnets (I had forgotten my family).

There is a working - toleranz of +/- 0.3 - 0.4 mm in all the hollows and +/-  1 mm in the length of the hollows. ==> therefore laser cutter needed

I'll try to adjust 14 and 15 in the next weeks. At the moment I let the device in its present condition (state) because the ball runs so well and good.

In this condition I want to demonstrate the device in some companies and labors (e.g. SIEMENS).

I need help from a professional company or from a laboratory.
But you know what the most of them say: "It cannot work ......"

http://www.schmalenbach.de/video3.mpg
http://www.schmalenbach.de/patent  ==>big fotos, drawings  (in German, but I think that's not a problem / "Bild" = foto)

Regards
Peter Schmalenbach
« Last Edit: November 26, 2006, 02:05:16 AM by peter_schmalenbach »

Offline Craigy

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Re: Adams idea, and Magnetic Shields
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2006, 02:51:17 AM »
Hi Omnibus, Peter, Clanzer and all.

I think Clanzers efforts are worth while, he may not get enough power but that is why i started the thread. We must unfortunately go through all ideas one by one till we hit the jackpot. ( nice work on your page clanzer).
Going off topic a little, Omnibus mentioned the Torbay, which i have been struggling with for the last 2 months. I think it was mentioned to Clanzer a few months ago that hard disk drives are a good source of shielding material. So 3 gutted hard drives later i have a little shielding material.
To quote Omnbus
" The problem with the Torbay motor seems different from @Merv's but in fact is exactly the same -- the system cannot generate enough push to overcome its internal obstacles and relies on external power sources to function. Torbay motor has to be so constructed that the created torque is enough to lift the next magnet and depress the trailing one, allowing the rotor to turn. So far, apparently no one has been able to achieve this. Indeed, everyone who has tried has observed generation of torque. That torque, however, has always been way insufficient to overcome the said obstacles. I still think that it's a matter of construction and if one has the chance to optimize it properly it may reach a moment whereby the created torque will be enough to overcome the hindrances"
Tonight i got my rotor to move by placing the shielding in front of the Stators.
I will have to post a video, it will be very crude but i hope it will be able to show on camera that the concept has hope of working. 2 or 3mm of shield affects the stators field enough to create the gap in that field that the torbay requires to work. My conclusion is. Fix all stators and attempt the moving of the shield via a linear bearing. Forget all Those stators clanking up and down and top hats with ramps.

Next question is how much force do you need to move the shield? Let me just say i am optimistic, ( i always am at the begining of a project LOL)

I will move the shields with a couple of servos to start with, since that will take us nicely back on topic to Clanzers efforts trying to store enough power on 180 or 270 degrees of rotation to feed back at top dead centre. LOL

Craig
« Last Edit: November 27, 2006, 11:19:11 PM by Craigy »

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Re: Adams idea, and Magnetic Shields
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2006, 02:51:17 AM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2006, 04:00:48 AM »
@Craigy,

This shielding material is truly amazing. I could never find out what exactly it is and where it can be purchased from. I've tried various other permalloy (mumetal) sheets but none of them was as efficient as this one, from within the hard drive.

Mind you also that technically the idea with the shielding of the magnet is a different idea from that of the Torbay motor (although, ultimately all these ideas may be boiled down to the same principle). It has been around for quite some time but to no avail. I'm curious what your experience with it will be.

My understanding is that if the concept is sound (as it seems to be judging from the SMOT) one should be able to construct sucessfully self-sustaining machines of various constructions. It's only a matter of a proper optimization which is not at all an easy practical task.

Offline Merv

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Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2006, 01:48:38 PM »
just wondering is anyone working on Firsruds principle Getting a ball moving in straight line or circle. Using a induced magnatic field in the area or in the two rails. From mains power to start with? Peters efforts show movement is possible in a magnetic field. I like to work with 110% . Get it working at any cost then Fine tune and work in reverse. That a result if a device worked with 101% thats very close. Sorry my device proved dissapointing to some of you. Look at the new ideas it produced. And free lights UK sold some extra bike generators. Good result all round don't you think

Offline joe

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Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2006, 05:17:05 PM »
Hi Craigy,

About the Hard disk drives shielding, can you show a picture of the part you are using as shielding?

Thanks    Joe

Offline CLaNZeR

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Re: Any one tried to use Adams idea to get over sticky spot?
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2006, 09:17:27 PM »
Hi Craigy

I have still not got round to stripping down some hard drives, have only got 3.5" ones here, and someone said the old 5.25" were bigger bits as such.

What drives did you pull them from and as Joe says, be great to see some pictures.

Should have my diodes and Caps arrive tomorrow, so will rig them up and see how many spins on the wheel take to get enough charge in that Cap.

Still working on the theory that after so many spins of the wheel the charge will be enough in the capacitor to supply enough energy to pulse a Electromagnet.

If it takes say 10 revolutions of the wheel to get this charge then I am hoping that the pulse delivered to the electro magnet will pulse the magnets enough to get another 10 spins etc etc.

I am going to use a embedded controller (Microchip Pic) to read the reed switches and count the revolutions and also trigger the load from the Capacitor to the Electromagnet.
This should get the timing down to a T and also I have had Pic Chips running off a very small voltage as low as 1.0 volt, as long as the clock speed is not too fast.
So hoping the extra circuit will not pull too much load.

Another option I want to try is using my Rig with the Arm, as in testing by hand I only have to move it a few mm's to clear the sticky spot and maybe, just maybe I can generate enough power to pull that arm out of the sticky point again using a Electromagnet. I think this will need a bigger wheeel though to get enough charge from the small coil as this would have to happen once every revolution.
Or as Craigy says, to maybe move a bit of shielding back and forth to get over the sticky point.

What is different I feel with this experiment is that there are plenty of designs around that have tried to charge a Cap by using a coil and storing the pulses, but using the Freelights coil it brings another element into play, you are exciting a magnet inside a coil and the drag is not that bad and also the tumbling of the magnet in that coil seems to produce more than just a coil having a magnet passed over it.
Gravity helps as you can hear the magnet inside the sealed box tumble back down and create a few valuable pulses after the magnets have passed.

Will let you know.

Regards

Sean.



 

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